1 loop or 2.

[Gotts]

I've decided to go watercooling for my new rig and am trying to plan things out before purchase. Trying NOT to be overwhelmed with all the info from which products to buy, I am stuck on if I should run 1 loop or 2.

I will 'only' be cooling my CPU and GPU, i7-920 and a single 5870. My case is the Corsair 800D and will be throwing in a few extra [undecided how many] 120mm's on top of the 2 140s it comes with.

I 'might' crossfire down the road and then, I know I would most likely need 2 loops to separate the cpu/gpu, but for now, I don't see a need for 2 5870s. With that in mind, what would some people suggest as far as a setup.

My budget is around $400 and possibly could push to $500 if needed. I originally thought is a pretty decent budget for cooling until I started to see how much waterblocks and all the connections can add up to.

Please advise!

Thanks.

G

[Conumdrum]

If you go with a 120x4 or a 140x3 or two 120x2's you'll be okay on temps. Not the best , but plenty good for some basic CPU onverclocking. If you plan to voltmod your GPU, then you might think about going two loops. Pretty hard to do on $450 though.

Swiftech XT or heatkiller 3.0 CPU block XT is better.
DDC3.2 pump and a XSPC restop.
TWO 120x2 SR-1 or XSPC RX rads. Finding the right 140x3 rad right now is hard, few choices I like.
Full cover block for the GPU. I use Danger Den blocks, EK and XSPC are your other choices.

Fans, hose, fittings etc too.

[atomic ferret]

It really depends on what kind of temps you are looking for. Do you plan to overclock your cpu and/or gpu? Would you be okay with an external rad, or do you want to keep it all on the inside?

According to measurements, you can fit a 120.4 rad up top and probably a 120.1 on the rear exhaust. In my opinion, if you want the best temps for your cpu and don't particularly care about gpu temps, split the loops up and use a 120.1 for the gpu and a larger rad for the cpu. If you want to save money on another pump, throw it all into one loop.

The reason I mention the 120.4 is that jab-tech has the RX480 for $90, which is a pretty good deal.

[Gotts]

Thanks Con for the info...my next big Q was going to be what brands out there are the 'quality' ones. I'll look into it a bit more and follow this (http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600550) thread (which I should have done from the start).

I'll be weighing the cost vs. effectiveness along with a sprinkle of future plannings [possible crossfire] over the next few days. If things are creeping too high in cost to cover the GPU right now, I'll just get my feet 'wet' (nyuk nyuk) with just one loop on the CPU and add a second down the road when I get a second GPU.

So many, too many! (is that possible) options for water cooling.

[Conumdrum]

Thats a good thread. Seen this one? Something I wrote a while back. Just general info and many great links to teach ya as you plod to buy something. Your smart if you take it slow and catious. I did that and it's been trouble free since day one.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=604016
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=312743

Welcome to OCForums!

[Spawn-Inc]

i would say something, but what i was thinking of has been said.

So many, too many! (is that possible) options for water cooling.

no, there isn't enough options, well good ones that are affordable :)

[Gotts]

Please give me some feedback about what I have come up with so far.

I have expanded my budget to around $550 give or take 50. as I see my initial $400 was WAY too low. Goal is to run 2 loops and I have come up with 2 scenarios. One is 2 separate loops while the second scenario is using the typhoon 3. Ill list the parts, then some concerns and questions after. Initially I want to run 1 loop on the CPU, one on a single GPU but will crossfire in about a year.

Setup #1

Loop 1 : CPU - i7-920
Apogee xt CPU block
MCR 320 w/ 3 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1450
MCP 655
Bitspower multi-250ml res

Loop 2 : GPU - Sapphire 5870 (1)
Danger Den Summit GPU block
Bitspower multi-250ml res
MCR 220 2 w/ 2 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1450
MCP 655
Bitspower multi-250ml res

Setup 2 :

Basically the same Rads and Blocks but using the Typhoon 3 with d5 pump.


So my quetions and concens...

The Typhoon 3 + d5 seems to be a decent job from some reviews but I am concerned how it will perform when I crossfire another 5870 into the second loop down the road. What are some thoughts on this? Easier to go the more conventional route?

Reservoir size. Is 250ml needed for the loop setups or can I get away with 150? I've seen a few swiftech micro reses in some setups and they seem to hold less?

Fittings. Compression seem to appeal to me the most. Like all other parts, can someone point me into the direction of some good quality ones? I see some offered in 'packages' that cost the same as 2-3 fittings.

VGA blocks. There is a $20-30 difference between the DD Summit and some other blocks like the EK Full body. Is there a major difference between these two? The DD doesn't seem "full body" and I am wondering if that is really necessary?

Any places I can get more "bang for the buck" I'd appreciate it being pointed out. Or if I am way off in my thought process, please offer advice.
Thank you.

G

[Spawn-Inc]

loops look good, but i will make a few susgegstions.

(note that i'm under the impression your getting 2 t3's and 2 655's)
instead of taking up 4 5 1/2" bays you can get this combo and take up only 2.


XSPC Acrylic Dual 5.25” Reservoir (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=318&products_id=25767) + 2x Swiftech MCP355 (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swiftechmcp355.html)


but either option you choose they will handle the loops your thinking of and then some.

you can go with any size res you want, don't forget some people use T lines which is even less water.

i like bits power fittings, though i only have 2 compressions and 2 90's.

[Gotts]

Actually in the second setup, it would have been 1 Typhoon 3 as I read it does pretty well, when coupled with a d5 pump, in a 2 loop setup. Is this more marketing than reality? In any event, I think I will go with the straight, conventional 2 loop setup so I dont have to worry about temps in future expansions.

As far as taking up bay space, I was going to go with the bitspower tubes (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/biwataz250po.html) for aesthetics and avoiding taking up front bay space. Maybe these aren't what I am thinking they are [reservoirs]?? If I used them, I wouldn't need to take up any bay space, right? Note : I don't mind using bay space since I have more than enough in the 800d.


On a somewhat side note. Can someone suggest an accurate and powerful fan/temp controller that can handle the 3 fans on the mcr320 and 2 on the mcr220? Thanks.

[Spawn-Inc]

ok, i was thinking you were going with T3's in those loops for some reason.

and yes the tubes are plenty fine.

[Gotts]

Ah, the only real reason that the T3 caught my eye is it's [supposed] ability to run two loops off itself and one pump [hence saving a few bucks depending on what pump/res one would go with in a 2 loop setup].

As for the Bitspower reservoir tubes.....what would be the advantage of 250ml over 150ml? Would it be signifigant in terms of overall cooling capacity of the system? or is it mainly just for footprint savings in the case?

you can go with any size res you want, don't forget some people use T lines which is even less water.

Are you talking about a simple T fitting in place of a res?

[Spawn-Inc]

Ah, the only real reason that the T3 caught my eye is it's [supposed] ability to run two loops off itself and one pump [hence saving a few bucks depending on what pump/res one would go with in a 2 loop setup].

As for the Bitspower reservoir tubes.....what would be the advantage of 250ml over 150ml? Would it be signifigant in terms of overall cooling capacity of the system? or is it mainly just for footprint savings in the case?



Are you talking about a simple T fitting in place of a res?

the t3 can run 2 loops but they share the same water.


as for the bigger res it basically only offers a larger epeen. once the water has heated (15-20 minutes for your average loop) the res size has no impact.

i was trying to make the point that it doesn't matter how much liquid you have in your loop is all. but yes a T can be used in place of a res.

[Gotts]

Yate loons are $3.60 over at jab-tech and I am wondering if there is a catch. I've seen nothing but good things about these fans and just wondering if this price is too good to be true or if they are some shoddy model..

D12SM-12 (https://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm-Case-Fan-D12SM-12-Medium-Speed-pr-3770.html)

[deadlysyn]

Yate loons are $3.60 over at jab-tech and I am wondering if there is a catch. I've seen nothing but good things about these fans and just wondering if this price is too good to be true or if they are some shoddy model..

D12SM-12 (https://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm-Case-Fan-D12SM-12-Medium-Speed-pr-3770.html)

I actually like the Yate Loon's. I have a total of 7 of them, but only 2 are running right now. The only catch is that you need to make sure that you get closed corners. Sometimes Jab will offer them with open or closed corners, and some people have posted about issues with the open corner Yates. They also seem to run better if they are mounted in a vertical orientation, instead of horizontal. They really are great fans for the price though. Most places charge anywhere around $5-7 plus shipping for them.

[Gotts]

I see these are 25mm though. Isn't 38mm best for radiator fans? If so, would a shroud make up the difference?

[Conumdrum]

38mm fans are higher pressure and great for rads that have a high FPI. On the low FPI rads a 25mm fan is just fine.

Depends on your rad choice.

[Spawn-Inc]

the only catch is that jabtech gets lower quality yates vs petra's tech. at least for the low and medium speeds. i've only ordered high speed one from them and all 18 were high quality ones.

[Gotts]

Spawn, I guess that's why Petra is sold out on all their Yate's. I'll keep an eye on their stock....it'll be a while before I get things up and running.

[Gotts]

Wow, having a helluva time finding places that have the items I want in stock. Gives me time to think more, which isn't always a good thing.

I have a few items on order, a few others I have laying in wait and one question before I pull the trigger on those items.

I've seen a few posts stating they don't suggest "bay" style reservoirs...and I was just wondering what are the disadvantages of them. Is it because they aren't as easy to inspect?

I would like to get a reservoir / pump combo for a cleaner look and the XSPC res tops are sold out everywhere and only other option I have seen is the one Conumdrum suggested : the XSPC dual bay dual res. However, I'd like to know what some downsides of the product would be before purchase.

Thanks.

[4GHZ_or_bust]

From what I've heard, many type of bay style reservoir were prone to leaking at the seams. It is likely due to type af additives used that reacted with glue that held the plexi together, allowing the fluid to leak out.

I do want to get Primo0chill Typhoon III (http://www.primochill.com/typhoon-iii-reservoir-system-pec.html) and mount my pump on the back. The description claims that with Swiftech 655 or D5 pump (both are the same), you can maintain very high flow rate and have 2 separate loops with one pump and reservoir. But it seems to be OOS everywhere and has been for a few months. There's also a few reviews of leaking problem at the seam that connects the front and back half together but it could be due to the user's stupidity and used additive that reacted with the glue.

There are 8 ports no pump version of Typhoon III but it's not what I wanted (and oddly, it's available at many places)

EK bay spin (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ekekspreac.html) is also nice but from the video I've seen, there seems to be a lot of churning water, and that may mean lots of air bubbles. If the water bay is not the highest point of the loop, air could build up elsewhere and cause problem. Maybe those people didn't fill the bay right and shouyld have topped the entire WC off with no air left? EK water bay is a little cheaper than Typhoon III and you get a choice of different colored impellers (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ekspim.html)

Fron what I can see, EK bay spin won't work well in my case as it's too short and my case's drive mounting screw on the right side is only on the far end. :(

For now I'm going with an external XSPC passive reservoir (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2234/ex-res-89/XSPC_Passive_150mm_Reservoir_-_SILVER.html?tl=g30c97s166) that I got off eBay for about $20 (scratch and dent special :D ) Leak tested, it is fine and will do for now.

[muddocktor]

@Gotts,

I wouldn't be scared at all of that XSPC dual pump bay res. They make some good quality stuff and if I was building a dual loop system that is the exact one I would use myself.

@4GHZ_or_bust,

That res thing you are about to add to your loop; according to the link you provided it has aluminum in contact with your cooling fluid, right? If so, you better add some antifreeze to your loop or Mr. Electrolysis will rear his ugly head up and bite your components.

[Spawn-Inc]

i've heard of bay res's cracking back when i started but i've not heard it about the XSPC ones. they seem to be great quality and i would feel safe with one in my setup. i think i've heard of one cracking, but it sounded more like a user error.

[Gotts]

Wow....fittings REALLY add up! Just placed my main order....about to vomit.
Now I wait.

[BobbyBubblehead]

waffer thin mint?

or bucket?

:pics:

errr...

[Gotts]

Hah! The bends have passed.
I'll save the bucket for when I full my loops and they spray all over the place like sprinklers!

[BobbyBubblehead]

which guide have you been reading? :shock: #Laughs#

[Gotts]

Packages have arrived, although it will be a wee bit before I get a chance to install it all. Decided to go for two loops, CPU running off a Thermochill PA120.3 / Apogee XT and the GPU being handled by a Swiftech MCR220 / EK Full body block. Both rads will be cooled by Gentle Typhoon 1450s (decided against the Yate Loons since both rads will be horizontal). Went with the Dual Bay, Dual Pump XSPC res and 2 355 pumps.

One thing that was apparent was the build quality of the Thermochill compared to the Swiftech. That PA120.3 just feels like a beast.

[Spawn-Inc]

the only thing i don't like about my swiftech's is they are thin. but if they were thicker it would cost more :)

also the paint on one of my 3 rads seems to chip off easy.

[Gotts]

For fear of cracking the reservoir, what size screw can someone suggest to use to attach my 355's to the dual bay/dual pump XSPC res?

[Spawn-Inc]

use the ones that ship with the res, they should have come with properly sized screws.

[Conumdrum]

Thanks for the update gotts, looks like your on your way. Taking pics is easy, just take lots, and we expect lots. Writing an article for your build is pretty easy if you want to take that on for the better good of OC Forums.

[Gotts]

Hrm, I didn't see any other than the screws for the faceplate. I'll have to double check when I get home from work. If not, I'll see if Gary from Sidewinder can throw some in with my next shipment.

Con, I definitely will keep things logged and photographed. I still have time in collecting all my parts and really won't start going all out until I have everything in front of me.

On a side note.....I understand that shrouds are better than no shroud. I guess it would be suggested I get one for each rad on my next order? (using GT 1450s on the rads).

[Conumdrum]

Shrouds 'can' reduce noise and increase rad cooling ability. Depends if you need it or not. Martin did some tests, I'm sure you have his old website bookmarked by now. It decreases noise by letting the airflow straighten out and flow smoother through the rad. It also reduces the dead spot behind the fan motor IF close to the rad smaller, using more of the rad surface. Some rads have a deeper open spot on one side of the rad, giving a built in shroud.

So. Summary 1.0, yes they help in two ways. Are they worth it? In massive big budget rigs where you got a HUGE case like a Mountain Mods case, sure why not?

For the normal user, not much. Not all rads have a custom shroud made to fit exactly. I know the PA rads do, I got one. I don't need it but the shroud was bought because I wanted one. Does it help? Yes. How much? Ohh so little. I got one awesome PA 120.3 on one i7 at stock speeds. Since I'm sooo far from heatload saturation on my current cooling setup, it does nothing for me at all. My PSU fan is the loudest beast in my PC.

So, in summary 2.0, don't bother.

[Gotts]

So I finally thought I had all I needed [yes, been ordering in drips and drabs] to finally start plugging away at my water cooling loops. I went to install my XSPC dual bay reservoir and the cutouts in the middle [of the sides] of the res weren't big enough to accommodate to metal ledges from the case. I took out the dremel and got the ledges down and the res....fit in with some elbow grease. A little more than I was comfortable with. then upon fastening up and putting the face plate on, the res is crooked! I tested my dvd writers and fan controller in the same spots and they are all flush with one another, so I think the res is faulty and am currently trying to RMA it [but might not have success since I am passed the 30 day return, unless it truly is a faulty product].

So I have been rethinking things a bit and possibly scrapping the bay res altogether.

I really like the way the iandh cylinders (http://www.petrastechshop.com/iast175mure.html) looks, but most likely will not be able to fit two, where I want to in my case. So that has me thinking...what if I ran one large loop with that res and a XSPC dual top (http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-Dual-Acrylic-Top-for-Laing-DDC-pr-4552.html) for my pumps [along with my 2 rads]?

OR

Staying with the two loop idea and either mounting two XSPC Acrylic Res tops (http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC- Acrylic-Reservoir-for-Laing-DDC-pr-4123.html) or two smaller EK 100 cylinders (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10204/ex-res-163/EK-MultiOption_4_Port_RES_100_Rev_2_Liquid_Cooling_Re servoir.html?tl=g30c97s165) on UN brackets (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_439&products_id=27525), which I would be able to stack vertically in my case.

1. Option one I'd just need the IandH Cylinder res and the dual pump acrylic top.
2a. Option 2 with the acrylic res tops, I'd need the tops and brackets.
2b. Option 2 with the EK cylinders, I'd need the cylinders, single acrylic tops and

I've seen, what seems to be, quite a few pics of option 1 on systems that have way more hardware than I do [then again, no idea what kind of OCing they are doing, or not doing].

I know much of how things are setup are personal preference and what one is trying to accomplish, but I just need a nudge or sorts. Some feedback on what the more experienced would go with if they were in my shoes atm. I am only looking for a moderate overclock atm [although sure I will push a bit more once I get my hands dirty in it] and would most likely add a second 5870 down the road.

Thanks guys.

J

[Spawn-Inc]

option 1 gets my vote.


if you get a dual pump top with pumps you will be able to basically cool all that you want (cpu, gpu's, motherboard + a bunch of rads)

most of the time 1 pump is enough for everything but 2 is definitely enough no question.

[jcw122]

Just GPU and CPU? One loop, two is overkill.

[Grosjambon]

If he add a 2nd gpu he just need to add a another Triple Swifty :0

[Gotts]

Thanks guys for the push in the right direction. Ordering the pieces and cable sleeving while I wait.:shock:

[Gotts]

For fear of cracking the reservoir, what size screw can someone suggest to use to attach my 355's to the dual bay/dual pump XSPC res?

In case anyone else runs into this issue....I used 8-32 x 1.25" machine screws.

Things have been progressing, slowly! I am just waiting on my reservoir to finalize things. I will make a post over in the case section when done with all the pics I have taken along the way.

Currently have the bottom of the 800d cut and MCR 220 installed, the PA120.3 installed with a bitspower rad guard [word of caution!! tap your rad with M4 tap if you are installing this guard!! Tapping with 6-32 and having to open all the holes wider, then install is no fun....especially when doing it solo]. It would have definitely been easier to install in a push config, but I went for the pull.

I soldered all rad fans to one cable and sleeved them. Also installed a Danger den fill port on the top front of the case. Last bit of 'case drilling' I will have to do will be for the reservoir and the UN Bracket for the pumps to sit on.

Once that's done, I can start to move things over into the case [I actually might do that today or tomorrow b/c I am just sick of looking at everything on the desk atm].

Hopefully my res will be here SOONER than later and I can get my pics up.


Do I need to be concerned with the weight of my 5870 with a EK waterblock on it? I recall reading a post and the guy had to put a "support" under the card b/c it was sagging while in the PCI-E slot.

[Conumdrum]

Naa, not really. It might droop a bit but the locking card slot holds it fine. No worries.

[Grosjambon]

dude post pic on this thread also.
Its like your rewards for helping u!!!
Your Trophy!!! the accomplishment of GLORY!!!!
k... i might be under sleep effect (1:42 AM ) just finished installing this cpu block on my mobo...
---> been w8 3week for 1dtek spring tocome... finaly i just installed 3 on 4 and fited a nuts on the other... all core are at are idling at 28-31 (core 1 :30 and all other are at the same temps) so i think pression is well made...
sry for the little thread jack over there...

Edit : only runing my delta 3400rpm (from paul) at 5v... and I Can't hear them.

[Gotts]

Hah, no problem. Sweet on your temps. Like your fans, I was shocked at the non-existant noise of the GT 1450s I put on my rads. Right now I have the stock cooler on the 5870 which is...moderately loud and can't wait to get everything up and running to enjoy the silence, and temps!

My iandh reservoir 225 is on it's way!

[Gotts]

The road has been long; I am currently leak testing my loop! Took a while to get the correct fitting setup for my cyclinder/pump area and even longer for the fittings to come in. Ran the wiring this morning, flushed the system and figure a few hours of just running the pumps will suffice.

Im amazed at how silent everything is. Loudest thing is the corsair fan I have over my memory, but after putting it on the lamptron fc-5, I saw it was ~3000RPM, when turned down to 2000, the noise went down substantially. Excited to fire the system up and trust me, I will have a mega thread with my progress, lots of pics and lots of links [so people dont have to go digging for the items I bought if they want to investigate for their own purposes]. Within the week, if everything is fine...

Of course, the post will be here, since you guys have been pretty welcoming and informative to all of us newbs.:thup:

[Conumdrum]

Woo hoo! Leak test, look close, best of luck!

[Gotts]

Starting my build thread over here (http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6455989#post6455989).