Corsair 650W PSU not enough for ATI 5850???

[antifrost3d]

Dear all,

I am having big problems with trying to get a ATI 5850 graphics card to run in my Asus P5Q Pro Turbo computer.

The graphics card works well in 2D, but under heavy 3D load (1680x1050 with both ani filtering and AA), it displays all sorts of artifacts and crashes in games.

I have tried almost everything and have searched the internet for a week for solutions. I have even tried out 2 different brands of 5850 with the same result.

I just came across the ATI AMD Certified Power Supply list (http://ati.amd.com/products/certified/powersupplies.html#pstop).

To my horror, my Corsair 650W is NOT listed for the 5850 graphics card.

However, I am not sure whether to take this list as the absolute truth and run out to get a 750W instead or whether the list is only suggestions, meaning that the 650W PSU will run the 5850 card just fine?

I have used a couple of PSU size calculators on the net, and they all calulate the needed PSU size to 350W based on my current hardware configuration including the 5850 card, so suggesting a 750W PSU does not make much sense to me.

What do you think? Is 650W PSU really to small to run a 5850 and why would ATI/AMD list the 750W as the smallest PSU for the 5850 card?

Thanks very much for your thoughts - I am loosing my mind over this problem.

/Mike

[Hey Zeus]

I'm planning on using a 550w with a 5850. Trust the PSU calculators.

[DocLiv]

I've used a 9800GX2 and a 5870 with my BFG 550w PSU without any problems. I would think your PSU would be more than up to the task.

[mattspalace]

Your PSU is fine - I suggest you return it provided you have updated the drivers, etc..

[Lavacon]

Are you overclocking the card??

That PSU should be plenty for a single card like a 5850.

[antifrost3d]

Yup - I tried everything. A variety of catalyst versions, overclocking the card, underclocking the card, manually setting the fan to 80% to keep the card cool, disabling AutoTune, disabling Catalyst AI, setting bios options to most conservative settings etc etc.

What happens when I run a 3d intensive apps (like 3DMark and Crysis) is this (as seen in MSI Afterburner monitoring): The GPU load % goes to max and stays there for a while. When I start to see the graphics corrupting and artifacts in the game, I alt-Tab and see that the GPU load % dropped from 99% to 30-40% 5-10 seconds ago and at the same moment the corruption starts.

So it looks like the everything is working fine in 3D until the GPU load % suddenly drops to 30-40%, even though the game is still running and should be max'ing the load.

I am blank as to what can cause this (except faulty drivers). The only lead I had was that my PSU is not certified to run the 5850 according to ATI/AMD.

I have attached a picture of the kind of corruption I experience. Its not from my PC, but is very similar.

[mattspalace]

How long have you had the card?

Is your cooling okay? What case do you have? What are the load temps for the card?

IMO, I'd still get an RMA number and exchange it for a new one.

[antifrost3d]

How long have you had the card?

Is your cooling okay? What case do you have? What are the load temps for the card?

IMO, I'd still get an RMA number and exchange it for a new one.

I dont think that will make a difference.

As I write in the first post, I have already tried 2 different (XFX and ASUS) 5850 cards with the same result.

The cooling is OK. CPU is below 60 and Mobo is below 30. When fan speed set to Auto, the GPU temp will go as high as 75 (in FurMark). I have tried setting fan speed manually on the 5850, in which case I can keep the GPU temp below 60. The temperature does not seem to matter.

[Lavacon]

Is there any chance you may have played with the PCIE frequency in the bios?

Just throwing it out there.

[Hey Zeus]

Yup - I tried everything. A variety of catalyst versions, overclocking the card, underclocking the card, manually setting the fan to 80% to keep the card cool, disabling AutoTune, disabling Catalyst AI, setting bios options to most conservative settings etc etc.

What happens when I run a 3d intensive apps (like 3DMark and Crysis) is this (as seen in MSI Afterburner monitoring): The GPU load % goes to max and stays there for a while. When I start to see the graphics corrupting and artifacts in the game, I alt-Tab and see that the GPU load % dropped from 99% to 30-40% 5-10 seconds ago and at the same moment the corruption starts.

So it looks like the everything is working fine in 3D until the GPU load % suddenly drops to 30-40%, even though the game is still running and should be max'ing the load.

I am blank as to what can cause this (except faulty drivers). The only lead I had was that my PSU is not certified to run the 5850 according to ATI/AMD.

I have attached a picture of the kind of corruption I experience. Its not from my PC, but is very similar.

Maybe a heat issue? Turn your fans up to 100% and see if you can duplicate the problem. What case? System specS?

[antifrost3d]

Oh, maybe I should mention that when I put in my trusted "old" Nvidia GTX260, everything works perfectly in the scenarios that cause 5850 to corrupt the graphics.

I am thinking, maybe the Asus P5Q Pro Turbo mobo is having a problem with PCI Express 2.0 cards, like 5850. I believe GTX260 is PCI Express 1.0 ???

[Hey Zeus]

Oh, maybe I should mention that when I put in my trusted "old" Nvidia GTX260, everything works perfectly in the scenarios that cause 5850 to corrupt the graphics.

I am thinking, maybe the Asus P5Q Pro Turbo mobo is having a problem with PCI Express 2.0 cards, like 5850. I believe GTX260 is PCI Express 1.0 ???

Don't think its your mobo and the GTX260 is a 2.0 card. Drivers, bad card maybe

[4GHZ_or_bust]

hmmm NVidia and ATi drivers conflict?

If you have access to another PC that can handle the card, try it there and see if the video corruption follows or not.

[GeoffX]

Could it be related to this?

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=468915

[don'tknow]

It's not your PSU. Look at my specs. I even OC'd the 5850 over 1ghz core recently and it's still running stable with my CPU at 4ghz on my Corsair 550VX.

You did use Driver Cleaner or CCleaner to completely remove any trace of the nvidia drivers before installing the catalyst ones, right?

[mrgoodkat]

You should be able to run two 5850's on that PSU.

[dejo]

I have found that if you run the 9.12 drivers and ati tray tools, or different combinations of ati drivers, gpuz, riva tuner and tray tools will do all sorts of crazy stuff. if you have more than one oc tool try removing them and see if the issue is still there. with just the ati drivers you should be good.

[DumpALump]

I have an older 560watt silverstone psu running my 5850 overclocked, 965be overclocked, with 5 hard drives. So I doubt that 650w is too small.

Now I doubt its heat that is causing the problem since you've tried two different cards and you're at 75C in furmark. I'd rule out the cards unless you got extremely unlucky with two dead cards.

Like others said, use a driver cleaner then install the drivers. Is your computer overclocked at all? If so, try setting it pretty much to auto stock settings. I understand that your nvidia card works fine, but perhaps there is some problem with the two. Try reinstalling chipset drivers.

Maybe your psu is going bad? You can always try another psu and see if it works. You can also try to use the little power adapters on another cable and plug it into the back of the card. Sometimes those plugs/cables go bad. It is rare, but my mom has a plug/cable that went bad.

Since you say that the card runs fine then starts artifacting it is usually a heat or power problem (usually). Try taking the side panel off of the computer and playing a game or whatever you do to make it artifact. The motherboard is supposed to supply some of the power to the card and maybe it is not able to cope with the additional power load or something is going wrong (mosfets?). list sort of goes on.

Its one of those, lets hope its a simple problem rather than something like, oh my cpu is bad sort of thing. I've actually read someone having that problem.

[antifrost3d]

Thanks for all your feedback. Of course I had hoped for a lot of "Yes, I know exactly whats wrong" posts :p

I have used Driver Sweeper to ensure a clean install everytime I have tried different 5850s, different Catalyst drivers and when trying the Nvidia GTX260.

I am running nothing overclocked. BIOS and GPU clock speeds are at default settings.

I have also tried 2 different PSU's.

I think I might have to give up on this one, send both the 5850s back and keep running with my trusted GTX260.

Thanks all for your effort :salute:

[EarthDog]

You should be able to run two 5850's on that PSU.No way I would do that for an extended period of time.

Anyway, have you PROPERLY uninstalled the Nvidia and ATI drivers when you were switching it all around? Using drviercleaner pro in safe mode? If your temps are in line (80C or under really), your PSU is good (and it is), I would imagine either the card is borked or its a driver issue.

[don'tknow]

Try both 5850's in another PC to make sure that they're the problem. And/or try borrowing a properly working 58xx from someone just to check and see if it's still causing those artifacts in yours. Either you got extremely unlucky with both of those being defective, or there is some kind of problem with drivers.

Maybe useless mentioning this but I've also gotten that problem (and the artifacts looked just like in the screenshot you posted) from my RAM being slightly overvolted by my mobo. I had to turn the voltage down one notch and it fixed. But you didn't say you installed new RAM at the same time as the GPU upgrade so this is probably not the issue.

[Oc1Kenube]

have you done a fresh install, seeing you used nvidia and ati cards in the system?

[antifrost3d]

Maybe useless mentioning this but I've also gotten that problem (and the artifacts looked just like in the screenshot you posted) from my RAM being slightly overvolted by my mobo. I had to turn the voltage down one notch and it fixed. But you didn't say you installed new RAM at the same time as the GPU upgrade so this is probably not the issue.

I think that is very interesting considering that our HW config is very similar (mobo, psu and xfx 5850) and you are the only one here that has had a similar problem as me.

Can you (or anyone) explain how a possibly slightly wrongly voltaged RAM could cause this kind of graphics corruption?

I am wondering because I did comprehensive memory testing with MEMTEST86+ for 12 hours and ran Prime95 in Blend mode (test RAM also) without any problems whatsoever.

I have 4 x 1GB Corsair CM2X1024-6400 (800Mhz, 5-5-5-18) in my PC and in BIOS, RAM clock, voltage and timing settings are on Auto.

Best regards

Mike

[don'tknow]

Yes, all of my stability tests (memtest, prime95, orthos) were getting passed but in games it was artifacing, that was back before I installed the 5850 though.

Your settings being on Auto is generally bad, I've never gotten any RAM to run stable like that. Always had to manually set the timings and voltages. Try slightly upping the memory voltage one notch at a time, if it starts getting the artifacts earlier after booting up a game, then lowering the voltage should fix the problem.

[antifrost3d]

Yes, all of my stability tests (memtest, prime95, orthos) were getting passed but in games it was artifacing, that was back before I installed the 5850 though.

Your settings being on Auto is generally bad, I've never gotten any RAM to run stable like that. Always had to manually set the timings and voltages. Try slightly upping the memory voltage one notch at a time, if it starts getting the artifacts earlier after booting up a game, then lowering the voltage should fix the problem.

Again, thanks for your reply.

However, I still fail to see the link between System RAM timings/voltage and graphics corruption :-/

Would anyone have a go at explaining that? ;)

[MIAHALLEN]

I heard something about newer drivers causing this...did you try rolling back to an older version? Try Cat 9.11 :shrug:

[Blazing fire]

Is there any chance you may have played with the PCIE frequency in the bios?

Just throwing it out there.

Have you tried out his suggestion? Leave both at 100mhz and 33.33mhz.

[antifrost3d]

Yup, tried Catalyst 9.10 and 9.11

Yep, tried fixing PCIe to 100MHz, fixing CPU clock and fixing RAM clock and timings.

But thanks for the suggestions :salute:

Best regards

Mike

[don'tknow]

Again, thanks for your reply.

However, I still fail to see the link between System RAM timings/voltage and graphics corruption :-/

Would anyone have a go at explaining that? ;)

The data has to go through not only video RAM but your system RAM as well, that's why it can cause graphics corruption. Can't give an exact explanation of how it all works though, but in my experience it can happen.

The best way to test your issue would be swapping the vid card with someone else's... even if it seems inconvenient. Finding out the problem part would save you trouble in the future and possibly $ from buying new parts by guessing what the problem could be.

You could also try an older ATI card that you know for sure is not defective, see if the problem persists just to make sure it's not something with the ATI drivers... could be a driver conflict with (my best guess) your mobo drivers or settings. Make sure they're updated to the latest.

[EarthDog]

The data has to go through not only video RAM but your system RAM as well, that's why it can cause graphics corruption..It does? Thats news to me. Videoram only spills out to system ram when its filled up AFAIK. Unless you meant something different then you typed.

[don'tknow]

It does? Thats news to me. Videoram only spills out to system ram when its filled up AFAIK. Unless you meant something different then you typed.

Like I said, not sure exactly how it all works. But I know there is some (well, a lot) data going through RAM while playing any game, otherwise RAM usage wouldn't change.

The textures are obviously in vRAM, if you think that's what I meant. I know they don't spill over to RAM unless the video memory is full.

[EarthDog]

Right but its not videoram that goes through system ram so how does it corrupT?, again AFAIK, and Im not certain either.. But it seems we are both playing a guessing game... :)

[vixro]

I just skimmed over most of the replies from the OP and have seen nothing stating he has tried one or both of the 5850's in a different system yet.

This is the most simple and effective way to test if the video card itself is bad or just the settings you are using.

[antifrost3d]

I just skimmed over most of the replies from the OP and have seen nothing stating he has tried one or both of the 5850's in a different system yet.

This is the most simple and effective way to test if the video card itself is bad or just the settings you are using.

That is correct, as I dont have another system to test them in.

Anyways. As no solution has emerged, I have decided to return both 5850's before the end of the return period.

Thanks for your interest and suggestions.

Best regards

Mike

[Catscratch]

Yeah I wish the CPU could directly use Video Ram too. That way we could have system ram+gpu ram for applications :)

Your game data is read from HDD and loaded to system RAMs, this surely contains texture data, then it's directed to drivers, gpu ram, etc.

Sometimes the video ram frequency can cause these problems, I know people who had to reduce it by 1 or 10 mhz and their artifacts were gone.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/10/14/ati-radeon-hd-5850-review/9

As you can see in the chart in above link, your 260 actually draws more power under load. It could also be motherboard as some are incompatible to some video cards. (Regardless of brands)

[killem2]

I can't imagine the psu is to blame here, I have a crappy xion 620 watt psu and it handles the 5850 fine.

[TF2]

I'm planning on using a 550w with a 5850. Trust the PSU calculators.

Not that I'm knocking you or anything but the PSU calculator I used said I needed 239 watts or something which is WAY off.

[TF2]

I have a crappy Coolmax PSU thats 700 watts that can handle a GTX 260 Core 216 whcih is a power hog. You should be fine.

[PretzelPusher]

When in doubt.... Unistall all video drivers. Restart. Use Driver cleaner. Restart. Reinstall video drivers.


This usually fixes most graphics issues. Lingering driver conflicts can be caused by drivers registry issues that don't get converted when drivers are updated. One issue can cause all the problems you are encountering.

[mrgoodkat]

No way I would do that for an extended period of time.


Why? I know people who are running two on the same PSU I have, that is rated at 620w. Granted, it is an HX series, so it likely performs closer to 680-700w, but people are running crossfire with less. I would have no qualms about running two 5850's on the 650.

[ffx10]

i know this sounds a little stupid.

have you tried using a different power cord for the PSU? not all power cords are made the same. i once had a PC kept crashing for no god damn reason, turns out it was a faulty or underpowered power cord cable.