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Are these temp normal?
- Thread starter infected_
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2001
- Location
- New Iberia, LA
Those look to be idle temps to me. Run something like OCCT or Prime95 and see where your temps level out and post it up. Idle temps really don't mean crap; it's load temps you need to worry about.
not an intel guy here but they do seem a little high to me...
but that is a very hot running chip...
good flow, proper seat for block, enough air moving through the rad??
what all is in your loop ? cpu, nb, video?
i think a 320 rad would be better,,,
more or less a newb here so wait for some intel peeps to show...
but that is a very hot running chip...
good flow, proper seat for block, enough air moving through the rad??
what all is in your loop ? cpu, nb, video?
i think a 320 rad would be better,,,
more or less a newb here so wait for some intel peeps to show...
- Thread Starter
- #7
im using an apogee xt, blackice gtx-lite 240 with 2 nb mf12-s3hs, mcp350 and dd res. bay
one loop only, to the cpu.
flow goes like this: pump, rad, block, res.
i think i placed the cpu block well, it moved a bit while placing it, but its well thingten up.
one loop only, to the cpu.
flow goes like this: pump, rad, block, res.
i think i placed the cpu block well, it moved a bit while placing it, but its well thingten up.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2009
- Location
- Brandon Mississippi
Yeah, that's pretty good for an i7 at 4GHz. You might be able to lower the voltage just a tad though
- Thread Starter
- #9
im at 1.43125v in bios now, before i was at 1.43750v.. im testing now if its stable folding.. temps max while folding, 72ºC max at 1.440v (cpu-z)
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2004
Those temps look fine. I would just be worried about your core voltage over time. I used to run my w3520 at 4.4 but I got a great overclock at 4.2 with less voltage and feel safer that way.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Location
- Small town Emlenton, PA
At the voltages and overclocks your running, you sir are underraded and the rad you have is a old design, way below the performance of more modern rads. Upgrade to a new low FPI 120.3, and your temps will be somewhat better.
With the rad you have though, you'd do much better with some 2000++ CFM fans at the expense of noise.
You must have a low room temp, I would expect the setup you have at an 75F room temp to be in the 80's easy.
Max recommended temp for your chip is 73C, and max vid is somewhere about 1.36.
Amazed you need that much voltage for just 4.0, somethings odd.
Don't smoke it!
With the rad you have though, you'd do much better with some 2000++ CFM fans at the expense of noise.
You must have a low room temp, I would expect the setup you have at an 75F room temp to be in the 80's easy.
Max recommended temp for your chip is 73C, and max vid is somewhere about 1.36.
Amazed you need that much voltage for just 4.0, somethings odd.
Don't smoke it!
- Thread Starter
- #12
im running at 4.4ghz with 1.440v of vcore... i left over night folding, max temp was 72ºC on core#1. im not exchanging the rad now, maybe when i buy a 930. even so, a 120.3 rad i would have think of a good place for it. currently the 240 rad is on the back of the case with the fans from the inside. the case is an antec 1200.
is it safe the leave it folding at 4.4ghz with this vcore and temps?
is it safe the leave it folding at 4.4ghz with this vcore and temps?
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2001
- Location
- New Iberia, LA
IMO, you are pushing the vcore too hard for 24/7 use. I wouldn't exceed the Intel vMax for that proc for long term usage. I don't think that voltage would hurt significantly for benching sessions and such, but would definitely give you electromigration issues over the long term.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2009
- Location
- Brandon Mississippi
Isn't 73C the max recommended ambient temp in the case?
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2008
- Location
- East Coast
Tcase max (IHS temp) of W3520 is 67.9C, same as an i7 920. If you go by tcase temp specs, you need to have a thermocouple embedded in IHS. Tcase temps can be 25+C lower than tjunction with prime/linx loads on these chips...on my E8400 with only 65W the gradient from tcase to tjunction is 20+ with linx.
Tjmax specs is 100C, and tj temps are what is measured in realtemp, so out of specs is at or near 100C.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLBEW
That is not to say your chip wont last longer with lower temps, since electromigration is function of volts and temps...but Tcase temp specs are for stock cpu measured at IHS, and really cant be used for anything else.
I have a video posted here, where I have a thermocouple inserted in hole milled in IHS, and through hole in heatsink where you can see gradient on E8400 vary between low tdp (idle) and higher tpd (load), and via graph from stanford experiment with pentium.
http://www.overclock.net/8156484-post476.html
Tjmax specs is 100C, and tj temps are what is measured in realtemp, so out of specs is at or near 100C.
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLBEW
That is not to say your chip wont last longer with lower temps, since electromigration is function of volts and temps...but Tcase temp specs are for stock cpu measured at IHS, and really cant be used for anything else.
I have a video posted here, where I have a thermocouple inserted in hole milled in IHS, and through hole in heatsink where you can see gradient on E8400 vary between low tdp (idle) and higher tpd (load), and via graph from stanford experiment with pentium.
http://www.overclock.net/8156484-post476.html
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Location
- Small town Emlenton, PA
Though 73C was for max CPU temp, so the cores can be 5C higher.
Thermal Specification: The thermal specification shown is the maximum case temperature at the maximum Thermal Design Power (TDP) value for that processor. It is measured at the geometric center on the topside of the processor integrated heat spreader. For processors without integrated heat spreaders such as mobile processors, the thermal specification is referred to as the junction temperature (Tj). The maximum junction temperature is defined by an activation of the processor Intel® Thermal Monitor. The Intel Thermal Monitor’s automatic mode is used to indicate that the maximum TJ has been reached.
From the intel page:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLBCH#
Thermal Specification: The thermal specification shown is the maximum case temperature at the maximum Thermal Design Power (TDP) value for that processor. It is measured at the geometric center on the topside of the processor integrated heat spreader. For processors without integrated heat spreaders such as mobile processors, the thermal specification is referred to as the junction temperature (Tj). The maximum junction temperature is defined by an activation of the processor Intel® Thermal Monitor. The Intel Thermal Monitor’s automatic mode is used to indicate that the maximum TJ has been reached.
From the intel page:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLBCH#
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2008
- Location
- East Coast
Actually the 5C gradient between IHS (true IHS temp not cpu diode) and cores is an error which I helped to start 2 years ago in Realtemp thread, based on an intel white paper, that had a scaleless graph. Two errors were made, one by me in assuming scale of graph was in units of one, to this day we still dont know units (and even if units are scale of one, that is from cpu diode to core temps, nothing to do with IHS temp). Second error, dont know who started that one, was assuming cpu diode (which is in the cores and no where near IHS) is any approximation of IHS.
Kevin (unclewebb) started realtemp because coretemps were based on mobile cpus (as tj specs not published for desktops at the time) and some clearly seemed off on the 45nms. He used IHS temps at idle, undervolted and assumed a nearly 0C gradient. The intel white paper seemed to agree, as did measuring gradient through just an IHS as only 1-2C. This intel paper even got computronix to change his guide from 15C avg gradient from case to core to 5C, so I even helped to screw up his guide
. (later learned that much of gradient is through the core itself, the core is copper banded silicone with thermal conductance of ~120W/MK vs copper IHS at 400 W/Mk, and the tim 1 solder joint though ~50-80 W/Mk is so thin at 10-20um not much gradient through that)
KTE was the only one arguing 2 years ago, that tcase specs = tjmax specs. In other words, at full tpd load, a cpu with stock cooler and stock tested conditions when tjmax is reached (example here 100C), the IHS would be 68C, ie tcasemax, in other words gradient would be 32C in that case. But it was 3 against 1, so we won the argument
, or KTE just started ignoring us (though turns out KTE was correct, as we found out a year later).
Then came the stanford article, clearly showing 15-30C gradient from core to IHS depending on the load. This is not same as the gradient from core to cpu diode (which is still in core and no where near IHS temp as still have to go through more core, then tim1 than IHS).
Then after the dilemma and I had an E8400 with intel published tjmax of 100, I milled hole in IHS and tested that way. In initial disbelief, I got another and drilled through IHS and part way into core to measure IHS vs partway into core. Ended up drilling five cpus, all pics/videos in realtemp thread on xtreme. Later others on xtreme drilled holes and got same gradients.
Turns out Unclewebbs measurement is valid and accurate for approximating tjmax, providing use 5C difference between core and IHS at 2-6W TDP, idle undervolted, instead of near 0C gradient.
But at load, KTE was spot on, no question as TDP increases (seems like just basic math now...but oh well), so does the gradient, so at load, near full TDP there will be 20-30C gradient from IHS to core (gradient will obviously vary cpu to cpu), so cpu/tcase specs are not helpful, have to go by tjmax specs of 100C when using tj temps.
Here is video, showing first the ~7-8C gradient at stock idle (undervolted is 5C, stock voltage idle is 7-8C), vs 20-24C gradient at linx load from core temp using tjmax 100C (known for E8400) vs calibrated thermocouple in IHS (accurate to within +/- 0.1C per factory calibration of surface temp).
YouTube- idle, then load, gradient from tjmax to IHS thermocouple
Here is stanford paper showing same gradient varying between 15C to 30C from core to heatspreader dependent on loading program and TDP, and was about 5C at idle.
1st black line (from bottom) is ambient
2nd black line is IHS (thermocouple)
3rd black line is cpu temp diode sensor
then multipe grey lines representing core temps in various hotspots in cpu, ie where dts sensors are now located in modern cpus, instead of just central diode.
Low tdp load programs like art, roughly only 5-6C between IHS and cpu temp and another 5-6C from cpu diode to core temps, ie max 10-12C from IHS to core.
High tdp load program like gzip, there is almost 30C gradient from IHS to core.
Kevin (unclewebb) started realtemp because coretemps were based on mobile cpus (as tj specs not published for desktops at the time) and some clearly seemed off on the 45nms. He used IHS temps at idle, undervolted and assumed a nearly 0C gradient. The intel white paper seemed to agree, as did measuring gradient through just an IHS as only 1-2C. This intel paper even got computronix to change his guide from 15C avg gradient from case to core to 5C, so I even helped to screw up his guide
. (later learned that much of gradient is through the core itself, the core is copper banded silicone with thermal conductance of ~120W/MK vs copper IHS at 400 W/Mk, and the tim 1 solder joint though ~50-80 W/Mk is so thin at 10-20um not much gradient through that)KTE was the only one arguing 2 years ago, that tcase specs = tjmax specs. In other words, at full tpd load, a cpu with stock cooler and stock tested conditions when tjmax is reached (example here 100C), the IHS would be 68C, ie tcasemax, in other words gradient would be 32C in that case. But it was 3 against 1, so we won the argument
, or KTE just started ignoring us (though turns out KTE was correct, as we found out a year later).Then came the stanford article, clearly showing 15-30C gradient from core to IHS depending on the load. This is not same as the gradient from core to cpu diode (which is still in core and no where near IHS temp as still have to go through more core, then tim1 than IHS).
Then after the dilemma and I had an E8400 with intel published tjmax of 100, I milled hole in IHS and tested that way. In initial disbelief, I got another and drilled through IHS and part way into core to measure IHS vs partway into core. Ended up drilling five cpus, all pics/videos in realtemp thread on xtreme. Later others on xtreme drilled holes and got same gradients.
Turns out Unclewebbs measurement is valid and accurate for approximating tjmax, providing use 5C difference between core and IHS at 2-6W TDP, idle undervolted, instead of near 0C gradient.
But at load, KTE was spot on, no question as TDP increases (seems like just basic math now...but oh well), so does the gradient, so at load, near full TDP there will be 20-30C gradient from IHS to core (gradient will obviously vary cpu to cpu), so cpu/tcase specs are not helpful, have to go by tjmax specs of 100C when using tj temps.
Here is video, showing first the ~7-8C gradient at stock idle (undervolted is 5C, stock voltage idle is 7-8C), vs 20-24C gradient at linx load from core temp using tjmax 100C (known for E8400) vs calibrated thermocouple in IHS (accurate to within +/- 0.1C per factory calibration of surface temp).
YouTube- idle, then load, gradient from tjmax to IHS thermocouple
Here is stanford paper showing same gradient varying between 15C to 30C from core to heatspreader dependent on loading program and TDP, and was about 5C at idle.
1st black line (from bottom) is ambient
2nd black line is IHS (thermocouple)
3rd black line is cpu temp diode sensor
then multipe grey lines representing core temps in various hotspots in cpu, ie where dts sensors are now located in modern cpus, instead of just central diode.
Low tdp load programs like art, roughly only 5-6C between IHS and cpu temp and another 5-6C from cpu diode to core temps, ie max 10-12C from IHS to core.
High tdp load program like gzip, there is almost 30C gradient from IHS to core.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 10, 2009
Tcase is an external reading and is not relevant in the slightest to anyone but system builders.
We even have a thread in the intel stickies all about what it really is.
Based on talking to Intel techs, even.
No guesses.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525629
We even have a thread in the intel stickies all about what it really is.
Based on talking to Intel techs, even.
No guesses.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525629
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Location
- Small town Emlenton, PA
Good point. So the intel spec of 73C max Case temp relates to nothing? What should a overclocker worry about, only coretemps right? And thats 100C? Or 70ish or so C?
When someone says thier chip is running great at xx Ghx with xx voltages at 80C, is that too high? I want to help them be safe. I'm talking Intel, not AMD here.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2008
- Location
- East Coast
There was one mttf paper, long gone now, that had intel aiming for 1-2% mttf rate at 10 years at stock settings, stock vcore, and supposedly that would be up to tjmax temps. And there are threads where some older mobile cpus constantly ran at 90+C temps for years without issue using normal use 24/7.
Problem is when raise vcore, which has an even bigger effect on electromigration, only intel or those with NDA and info, know mttf curves or degradation curves at varying volts/temps.
Personal experience of overclockers is going to be best guess, but there are not any overclocking temp specs to quote.
And even if linpack loads at 95C, but normal use is 50C, dont know that linpack/prime temps matter if only occurs avg of few days per year, unless you fold at home 24/7.
Problem is when raise vcore, which has an even bigger effect on electromigration, only intel or those with NDA and info, know mttf curves or degradation curves at varying volts/temps.
Personal experience of overclockers is going to be best guess, but there are not any overclocking temp specs to quote.
And even if linpack loads at 95C, but normal use is 50C, dont know that linpack/prime temps matter if only occurs avg of few days per year, unless you fold at home 24/7.
