Anyone knows how to use liquid nitrogen?

[kenzhang]

It seems cool. way better than water-cooling. But, how to do it? and is it easy to do?
thanks

[Shadow ÒÓ]

Originally posted by kenzhang
It seems cool.

now there's an understatement!

I seriously suggest if you don't know how, you DON'T try.....roughly 300 degrees below zero, and not something you can pick up at a local hardware store.

[CrystalMethod]

I fully agree with Shadow. It's not something you want to be playing around with if you don't know the hazards, and i'm talking about the hazards to your body parts. One little spill of the stuff, and you could lose a finger, toe, etc... I have free access to the stuff in an almost unlimitid quantity, but I've never even felt the urge to try it out, because I know how dangerous the stuff can be.

[DOCTOR EVIL]

Here's an idea guys! Put your rig in a refridgerator freezer then drill some small holes at the top of the freezer for all the wires, cords ect., then set your fridge to its coldest settings and there you go, a way better way to cool your PC than with the water cooling or LN cooling ways.:D

[RainMaQer]

My uncles giving me his mini fridge... I was thinkin about doin something along those lines... read some threads and articles about it... not sure... might just keep :beer: in it;)

[DAGO]

Gotta chime in here and agree with the others, using liquid nitrogen is a VERY BAD IDEA...way too dangerous a material for you to be fooling with for our purposes...Using it at all requires specific guidelines for use and protective gear to retain all your body parts.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

[DOCTOR EVIL]

Originally posted by DAGO
Gotta chime in here and agree with the others, using liquid nitrogen is a VERY BAD IDEA...way too dangerous a material for you to be fooling with for our purposes...Using it at all requires specific guidelines for use and protective gear to retain all your body parts.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
What about freon and other coolants that are used in freezers and Air conditioners? Anti-freeze coolant put into water cooled rigs as well?

[BinarySuperman]

i heard you cant put comps into freezes cause of condensation, or something like that. in other words water forms from the air and conducts our good friend electricity:D

[Zuck Gou :)]

Originally posted by BinarySuperman
i heard you cant put comps into freezes cause of condensation, or something like that. in other words water forms from the air and conducts our good friend electricity:D

I've never heard that, I've just assumed it. Always wanted to try it out though.

[Darrenct]

Yah, You'll get some serious condensation, but... There a couple of other fun things to do with a mini-fridge.
For all you big-time water coolers, put your reservoir and radiators inside the Fridge and crank it, you should be able to get your coolant temps way below freezing.(Get a large reservoir so that the water stays in the Fridge(Freezer) longer.
Or take apart the fridge and put the cooling coil in your reservoir.

[Teacher_Doug]

I suggest you check out this thread (http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57056&highlight=liquid+nitrogen)

it covers most of the points about using liquid nitrogen

[UserName]

Condensation requires a constant supply of moist air. If the fridge, or any container is sealed you get no condensation. Just like in your fridge at home.

So if you keep the door shut and it sealed you will have no problems. If you open it every 15 mins to change something on it you got problems. Just like a house fridge.

You can actualy stick you hand in LN2 and withdraw it with no ill effects. Just do it fast. You can do the same thing in a boiling pot of lead too. Dont try it untill you look it up and see how they do it. used to be a circus trick.

[Tiger]

I can testify to the dangers of working with these kind of temps. I am nowhere near the lows of N2 but have coolant in the order of -20C and had to fish my pump out because of a blockage last week and suffered minor frost bite on the tops of two fingers having had my hand in there for less than 15 seconds.
The skin is peeling off at the moment.

[DAGO]

Originally posted by DOCTOR EVIL

What about freon and other coolants that are used in freezers and Air conditioners? Anti-freeze coolant put into water cooled rigs as well?

Freon and other coolants do not approach the extreme cold temps of Liquid Nitrogen, otherwise the AC repairman would be wearing protective gear while charging the system, etc...

There is also the condensation problem mentioned above, which would be very extreme when using Liquid Nitrogen...you would short circuit something due to condensation almost for certain...
Sure some one with the technical skills and proper workspace could get away with it, but I don't think it is worth the trouble for our purposes here...kinda like working with venomous snakes---you might get away with if for awhile, but eventually one of those suckers is gonna getcha...OUCH...:eek:

My 2 cents...

[UserName]

if the case is airtight or submerged you have no condensation issue

[CrystalMethod]

Not all of us can afford Florinert. I'm assuming that's what you meant by submerged.

[UserName]

no i ment submerged in LN2.

[CrystalMethod]

That won't work. There is such a thing as having a system too cold. Some of the components will cease to funtion at temeratures that low.

[UserName]

This has been discusssed and i say yess it will. we have to dissagree.

I have see submerged LN2 seups. Somethings you got to do different than usual but they work fine.

[Scottland]

LOL WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG... condensation requires a large delta between the surrounding air and a surface...

your comptuer is constantly going to be HOT... and the air in the fridge is going to be cold... so you WILL get tons of condensation

wanna see proof .... http://www.pcrivals.com/projects/computerator/index6.shtml

look at those iceicles.......

The reason condenstaion doesn't form in a normal fridge is...

the hot air has somewhere to go..

have you ever stuck a hot plate of food that is in a styro foam container in the fridge... the next day when you go to re-heat it... notice all the water dropplets on the inside the of the styro foam

oh the final reason not to use a fridge of min-freezer.... the constant heat load that the processor puts on the fridges compressor would fry the commpressor, after a amount of time

[UserName]

What?

Condensation requires 2 things.
1 moisture in the air
2 a cool enought surface for the moisture to condence on

cold moist air will not condense on a hot surface. Condensation requires a colder surface.

The air in your fridge stays in your fridge. it goes no where. its sealed.

if you were to get lots of condensation where is the water comming from? there is not even an once in a whole fridge. since the fridge is sealed once that onze freezes there no more.

But it wont freeze on the CPU cause the air is colder than the hot surfaces.

Now you read the artical you linked to right?
he says right there that condensation is no a problem, except when you shut off the frigerator and remove the heat sink.

The heat sink is NOW colder than the refrigerated air, and condensation can occur.

Thats ok, no apology is nessary.

[CrystalMethod]

I will have to say we do disagree on the subjust, but here's an interesting experiment.http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=articles/submersion/submersion.html

[Trieber]

Dangit Crystal, was about to post that link too. These guys were serious about it, and once they introduced LN2, the system went kaput. They say it might have frozen the capacitors and transistors, cold enough to freeze the acid in them. It is a very good article, you should read it all, but I would say NOT try it.

Crystal do you know the going price for Flourinert? I know there are several different kinds, but any idea? I have checked before but haven't found anything solid.

It would be a good idea to use it as your coolant, instead of water, provided you use small quantities since I know the stuff is pricey, just not how pricey... Maybe seal the whole beast in a fridge, to keep the stuff cool, but you couldn't open it because then you would have condensation problems... Hmm, something to think about.

[RainMaQer]

Originally posted by Scottland
LOL WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG... condensation requires a large delta between the surrounding air and a surface...

your comptuer is constantly going to be HOT... and the air in the fridge is going to be cold... so you WILL get tons of condensation

wanna see proof .... http://www.pcrivals.com/projects/computerator/index6.shtml

look at those iceicles.......

The reason condenstaion doesn't form in a normal fridge is...

the hot air has somewhere to go..

have you ever stuck a hot plate of food that is in a styro foam container in the fridge... the next day when you go to re-heat it... notice all the water dropplets on the inside the of the styro foam

oh the final reason not to use a fridge of min-freezer.... the constant heat load that the processor puts on the fridges compressor would fry the commpressor, after a amount of time


No... not wrong... If the fridge is sealed properly and turned on with ALL components of the computer turned off... NO condensation will occrur. If you notice on you house windows... condensation happens on the inside... not on the outside... condensation occurs from warm touching cold... not cold touching warm. Therefor... start up your comp after the air and all equipment are at the same temp and you have yourself a nice "cool" system... no condensation.


*Oh and let me quote something from your link....*

Yes, that is ice on the outside of the heatsink, we also got ice
on the underside of the CPU. But not to worry, you only get
condensation when you turn off the refridgerator. While
everything is running, we have NO problems with condensation.
We left the Computerator on over night and all was well.
So if you are going to be turning this beast off, remember
to unplug the powersupply, and let it dry off before powering
up again.

[CrystalMethod]

It's usually used to completely submerge electronic components like telecommunication relays and stuff. My friend an I called the local distributor to find out how much it would be a few months ago. Apparently, it's sold by weight, not volume. Think the quote was somwhere around $60 a pound. It's almost twice as dense as water, so getting enough to completely submerge a system would be around $800-900 Canadian. That's by getting just enough of the stuff to submerge the MB and cards in a container just a little bigger than the Mobo itself. We promptly threw the idea out the window.

[flounder43]

I never knew that condensation could be such a topic of debate, and misinformation...

Try this, take a cold beer let is sit on the the desk next to your computer. What happens? That's right, condensation. The beer can is cold, the water in the air *condenses* on the beer can...

That is why I use a coaster.

flounder43

[RainMaQer]

Originally posted by flounder43
I never knew that condensation could be such a topic of debate, and misinformation...

Try this, take a cold beer let is sit on the the desk next to your computer. What happens? That's right, condensation. The beer can is cold, the water in the air *condenses* on the beer can...

That is why I use a coaster.

flounder43

And we're all shot down by the intuition of flounder :D Very good example... and please note that this happens when COLD is intoduced to WARM.;)

[Tiger]

Originally posted by Scottland
LOL WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG... condensation requires a large delta between the surrounding air and a surface...

your comptuer is constantly going to be HOT... and the air in the fridge is going to be cold... so you WILL get tons of condensation

wanna see proof ....

The reason condenstaion doesn't form in a normal fridge is...

the hot air has somewhere to go..

oh the final reason not to use a fridge of min-freezer.... the constant heat load that the processor puts on the fridges compressor would fry the commpressor, after a amount of time
I am afraid you got it WRONG.
Condensation relates to dew point and not temperature. The higher the level of relative humidity the closer to ambient temperature condensation (dew point) will occur. In very humid climates dew can form at temps as high as 18C.
The next fact is that condensation will occur on an object which is below dew point temperature. In the context of the interior of a fridge the coldest point is always going to be the evaporator plate and everything else is always going to be warmer. Hence if the fridge remains closed condensation will only occur on the evaporator plate.
Finally dealing with the heat load placed on domestic refrigerators - have a look at my sig. The size of the compressor should be balanced against the cooling requirements to get good results. If the compressor is too light for the job its not going to fail, it's just not going to do the job. Compressors burn out (burn their windings) not because they are required to do work but because they are not properly ventilated. Most domestic type compressors are enclosed units designed to work within the cooling capacity of the ventilation area around them. Most units have the condenser placed so that the fridge has to be a certain distance away from the wall to ensure that there is sufficient air flow around the compressor and the condenser. Most domestic fridges have an average lifespan of 15 years. These compressors reach their operational temps very quickly and so working them for 2 hours or 20 hours makes no difference. Failure will eventually result from wear on the brushes of the motor. Stop/start cycling does more damage than continuous running.

[xCarne_Asada]

Originally posted by CrystalMethod
I fully agree with Shadow. It's not something you want to be playing around with if you don't know the hazards, and i'm talking about the hazards to your body parts. One little spill of the stuff, and you could lose a finger, toe, etc... I have free access to the stuff in an almost unlimitid quantity, but I've never even felt the urge to try it out, because I know how dangerous the stuff can be.

Thats not quiet correct, the other day in my chem class the teacher was throwing liquid nitrogen on the ground and she poured some on to this girls hand. It was a great class, she dipped and bouncy ball in it, and threw it to the ground. HAHA!

[flounder43]

Liq. nitrogen is weird that way, if you dip something into it, it will freeze super fast. However, you can pour it on your hand, and it won't freeze it. It has to do with how fast it boils/evaporates.

[RainMaQer]

Originally posted by xCarne_Asada


Thats not quiet correct, the other day in my chem class the teacher was throwing liquid nitrogen on the ground and she poured some on to this girls hand. It was a great class, she dipped and bouncy ball in it, and threw it to the ground. HAHA!

I remember doing that in science class... person that had it poured on their finger said they didn't feel it touch them. Cool class. Everyone got to freeze something... I tried a pen... only the outside shattered when I dropped it... still wrote though:p

[flounder43]

Bananas are fun to freeze as well.

[UserName]

I seen on PBS this guy was debunking mysticks and we put his hand in boiling lead at about 500C. No problem

He said it's the same thing as when you pour water into a hot pan and you see the little dancing water drops. they should boil away you would think, but the steam acts as a heat barrier.

With you hand in lead water on your hand boils and acts as a barrier

with LN2 the N gass acts as a barrier

[CrystalMethod]

Originally posted by xCarne_Asada


Thats not quiet correct, the other day in my chem class the teacher was throwing liquid nitrogen on the ground and she poured some on to this girls hand. It was a great class, she dipped and bouncy ball in it, and threw it to the ground. HAHA!

Pouring it on your hand is fine, it'll just run off, but lets say you accidentally spill it on an article of clothing? Kinda like when you spill hot coffee on yourself, only in reverse temperature wise. Whatever you choose to do is entirely up to you. I was just warning people about how dangerous the stuff CAN be, if not handled properly.

[AntmanMike]

Condensation occurs when warm air, which holds water (warm air can carry more water), touches a cold body. When the warm air cools, it loses its ability to carry water, and drops it. Condensation occurs when warm moist air touches a cold surface. This is the basis of my MiniFridge case. I channel all air through the cold plate, with heatsinks, so it drops to a freezing point, forcing all water out of the air. Then it channels it directly into a small box containing the motherboard, then back out. Then it recirculates. This guarantees only COLD DRY AIR touches the motherboard.