Next consoles?

[buffheman]

So I'm thinking about getting a PS3... I've been a mildly satisifed 360 owner for a few years, but PS3 has compiled substantial enough a list of exclusives that I want one. But if there's a new console coming out in the next 2 years, I probably wouldn't do it.

Has anyone heard anything on next gen consoles? I could see it being anywhere between 2 and 5 years from now... I just have no idea.

[DBZ]

So if a new console come out in 2 years and cost 500 dollars, you would wait and get that instead of getting a console for about 200-300 today?

[tinymouse2]

Well games are saying their engine is "Next Gen ready" so there are some more coming soonish (probably 2-3 years?).
The next sega console will be coming soon! That will blow everything away :D

[FudgeNuggets]

Dont jump on board with a new console as soon as it hits shelves. I've done this for over 20 years and 5 years ago is the last time I'm doing that.

It takes these machines about 2 years to ramp up and for the old ones to die off, so if you get one now then you've still got 4 good years left. Plus you don't want to jump on the wrong boat too early. Wait around and see how it plays out, will MS, Sony or Nintendo have the better machine? Will anybody have massive reliability issues? Better to wait and see.

[nightelph]

Last I read, Sony is still losing around $7 per console. I would expect them to push the PS3 for a long time.

That said, All this is ridiculous irrelevant speculation! Hardware coming out in 2-5years? PFFTTT!!! I speculate that my car will realize higgs-boson particles and cook breakfast!

:P

[Joeteck]

Last I read, Sony is still losing around $7 per console. I would expect them to push the PS3 for a long time.

That said, All this is ridiculous irrelevant speculation! Hardware coming out in 2-5years? PFFTTT!!! I speculate that my car will realize higgs-boson particles and cook breakfast!

:P


Well, they make it back in the ridiculous cost of games....

Should be like buying a printer... Console is free, games are expensive as hell.

[Marshmallow64]

I think Nintendo will be the first to come out with the next console, the PS3 and xbox 360 are here to stay for awhile.

[tinymouse2]

Last I read, Sony is still losing around $7 per console. I would expect them to push the PS3 for a long time.

That said, All this is ridiculous irrelevant speculation! Hardware coming out in 2-5years? PFFTTT!!! I speculate that my car will realize higgs-boson particles and cook breakfast!

:P

You or your car wont' find the Higgs-Boson, the Higgs-Boson will find you when you need him the most :D

[FudgeNuggets]

I think Nintendo will be the first to come out with the next console, the PS3 and xbox 360 are here to stay for awhile.

My money is on MicroSoft. Especially if Natal flops.

[nightelph]

Gotta side with Fudge on MS coming first.

As for my car.. wheres ma breakfast!?

[xtkxhom3r]

why wait 2 years untill the next one is out. just buy the ps3 and 2 years later when the next gen comes out get the new one...

[Joeteck]

why wait 2 years untill the next one is out. just buy the ps3 and 2 years later when the next gen comes out get the new one...


+1, I just got my 360 about a month ago...

I remember reading about the XBOX 720 about a year ago....

[jediman]

didn't both companies say they planned a 10 year lifespan for this gen of consoles?

[xtkxhom3r]

didn't both companies say they planned a 10 year lifespan for this gen of consoles?

i dont know how they thought they would last 10 years.. the ps3 and xbox are already maxed out... why do you think the ps3 only makes games at 720... just look at heavy rain for the ps3 its at 720 and it has tons of tearing.... looks great btw

but there is no way these consoles are going to last 3 more years the tech isnt there anymore

[deathman20]

I'd expect holiday season of 2012 for the big players (MS and Sony). Nintendo will release one possibly sooner, they should be out the door with the first one as early as next year, though it still probably won't be as powerful as what currently is out.

I'd say get it, as said above, after it comes out waiting a year at least, or til supplies settle down for the console where you can walk into the store and buy. Not waiting in line for days to get the console. As well first batches aren't typically the best machines always have glitches, though I was lucky with my PS2 when I got it.

Its like buy a video card, if you want it get it, but just because the next one is around the corner doesn't make the current card junk.

[buffheman]

Good points about waiting 2 years to get the next gen anyway. I didn't pick up the 360 for some time. I'm just kind of feeling out the prospect of getting a PS3... my brother just got one and I felt slightly jealous, which surprised me. So further introspection is required. I don't suspect there's going to be a price drop anytime soon. I'll keep an eye out for some special bundles or something good... really, I just want to play Demon Souls.

[wa77ss]

Any chance the newer will consoles will use 3d tech?

[deathman20]

Any chance the newer will consoles will use 3d tech?

PS3 uses 3D Tech or is going to.

I'd bet that newer ones probably would because its the new thing.

[Andrew149]

isnt xbox coming out with a better machine the graphics sucked on battlefeild 2

[Younglin]

Ps3 is going 3D soon and is coming out with something similar to natal and wii motes combined. Google it. It's going to be amazing. But the PS4 is supposed to be out by 2012. Sony has abandoned their 10 year cycle due to the speed at which graphics are evolving. If the rumors are true the PS4 will have a 16 core processor built by IBM ( Yeah.. right lol) along with two GPU's. ( Again, yeah right.)

All of the above I have gotten from rumors on the net so don't take it to seriously. Except the part about PS3 going 3D and the natal / wii mote hybrid. Sony actually announced that that is true.

[Andrew149]

haha 16 wtf is that a server processor lmao i highly doubt that the most i can see them doing is a 4 core i7

[cereal_killa]

I'm pulling for nintendo to pull off something HD. It will probably be a while though. I'm sticking with my phenom II x4 desktop (HD 5770) and my core i5 laptop (gt 335m) FTW.

[deathman20]

Ps3 is going 3D soon and is coming out with something similar to natal and wii motes combined. Google it. It's going to be amazing. But the PS4 is supposed to be out by 2012. Sony has abandoned their 10 year cycle due to the speed at which graphics are evolving. If the rumors are true the PS4 will have a 16 core processor built by IBM ( Yeah.. right lol) along with two GPU's. ( Again, yeah right.)

All of the above I have gotten from rumors on the net so don't take it to seriously. Except the part about PS3 going 3D and the natal / wii mote hybrid. Sony actually announced that that is true.

Oh its true... and price tag of $1000 this time around. Though its going to cost Sony only $2000 to make it.

[FudgeNuggets]

The caveat to the PS3 using 3D though is that the games will only be 480p, the GPU can't handle 720p or 1080i/p with 3D because the system it uses is essentially producing 2 images and then overlaying them on each other so essentially it would have to produce 2 720p or 1080p pictures to do that res in 3D.

The PS3 Wii-ripoff thing is called the "move" and it looks horrendous.
I hope Natal fails equally so.

I don't want all this garbage in my games. I have the Wii, I don't like it. I like the PS3 and 360 just fine. I don't want 3D. I don't want flail around controllers. I want to come home from work, sit on the couch and relax with a controller in my hand.

The Wii had success and now the others want to copycat it. The Wii was novel. The novelty has worn off. People aren't going flock to this technology like they did the Wii when it was new. However, they may accept it and we may be stuck with it, like it or not.

[xtkxhom3r]

lmao i disagree fudge the move thing on the ps3 looks great not to mention natal looks fun in its own way too... imo the wii sucked....

[deathman20]

Im looking forward to what the Natal system offers, considering you don't have to buy a few hundred in pricey controllers for a party. Let alone any controllers, just the vision system.

Wii has its pluses. I own one and it really doesn't get a lot of use sadly :/ Wife wanted one and I use it more which is very little.

[benbaked]

IMHO the whole 3D gaming with the glasses and special TVs is a fad that will come and go in a few short years. More people have HD TVs so the manufacturers need a new gimmick to get people to upgrade their perfectly fine televisions. Sega did the whole 3D glasses gaming back in the late 80s and it was a failure. Nintendo tried it in the early 90s and it was a failure. I predict the same with this upcoming fad. It'll be interesting to look at this post five years from now and see if I was right. :p

[xtkxhom3r]

im sure it will do fine... the 3d of today is way better than what it used to be just look at the movie avatar... if they can make games look like that then their golden....

[FudgeNuggets]

im sure it will do fine... the 3d of today is way better than what it used to be just look at the movie avatar... if they can make games look like that then their golden....

but for every Avatar there is a dozen movies that the 3d was worthless crap. Last one I saw was Clash of the Titans

[xtkxhom3r]

but for every Avatar there is a dozen movies that the 3d was worthless crap. Last one I saw was Clash of the Titans

that is true but come on atleast the tech is there and there is proof that it is possible to do it right they just have to find the right ppl.... and have you seen the ps3 commercial back from the future or something like that the ps3 move looks awesome i cant wait for it

[FudgeNuggets]

that is true but come on atleast the tech is there and there is proof that it is possible to do it right they just have to find the right ppl.... and have you seen the ps3 commercial back from the future or something like that the ps3 move looks awesome i cant wait for it

No, but I've seen Little Big Planet in 3D on a PS3 hooked up to a 3D Bravia at the Sony Store and it was ok but not impressive.

[jaredavidporter]

I hear the new 3D stuff looks the exact same as it did years ago. At least that's what I'm told. I've yet to experience any of the current 3D movies so I cannot throw my opinion out on this one.

I always thought about buying those nvidia 3d glasses since my video card supports it but I could never bring myself to cough up the cash for them just to test it out (You also have to have a high end monitor that supports it as well).

As for the original poster I'd go for the PS3. Free online play, imo a HUGE plus over having to pay for live. Built in wireless. BluRay. Netflix (dunno if xbox supports it, AFAIK it doesn't).

[arcanise]

PS3 is hands down the best, the 360 just has a huge reputation to be "better" the same way mac does, but everyone with some knowlege on hardware and technology knows that x360<ps3 mac< pc

[tinymouse2]

PS3 is hands down the best, the 360 just has a huge reputation to be "better" the same way mac does, but everyone with some knowlege on hardware and technology knows that x360<ps3 mac< pc

I'm not backing anything with that failed cell concept :p


The 360 is just a more sociable console. You can have a few mates round and just play it for hours on end :p
When we had a Windows 7 party (yes me and mates are that sad :D) we just played 360 for about 6 hours straight, good times :D

[FudgeNuggets]

PS3 is hands down the best, the 360 just has a huge reputation to be "better" the same way mac does, but everyone with some knowlege on hardware and technology knows that x360<ps3 mac< pc

and everybody that doesn't have a Lego brick for a brain knows Ford is better than Chevy right? :rolleyes:

[deathman20]

As for the original poster I'd go for the PS3. Free online play, imo a HUGE plus over having to pay for live. Built in wireless. BluRay. Netflix (dunno if xbox supports it, AFAIK it doesn't).

Netflix has been on the X360 for a long time. Was the first console to have it though you do need a gold subscription to use it. Though only benefit of Netflix on the X360 is you don't need a disk to use it unlike the Wii and PS3 unless they've changed it, which IMO sounds really stupid to why you'd need a disk.

[jaredavidporter]

Netflix has been on the X360 for a long time. Was the first console to have it though you do need a gold subscription to use it. Though only benefit of Netflix on the X360 is you don't need a disk to use it unlike the Wii and PS3 unless they've changed it, which IMO sounds really stupid to why you'd need a disk.
Ahh, alright. That clears things up for me :)
You still need the disk for PS3. One of my room mates tried the trial for Netflix last month and he had to have one.

[Younglin]

More people have HD TVs so the manufacturers need a new gimmick to get people to upgrade their perfectly fine televisions.
You only need an HD TV for the PS3 3D.

haha 16 wtf is that a server processor lmao i highly doubt that the most i can see them doing is a 4 core i7

You obviously don't know much about the PS3. It has an 8 core ( one is locked) cell processor.

[don'tknow]

At this rate it wouldn't be surprising if a new DirectX version comes out within 1 year or less after the new consoles.

Can't see how they will keep up with hardware advancements either, since new CPUs and GPUs come out every 6 months or so. Maybe they're waiting for the current 'spike' in hardware advancement to settle down, which eventually will due to tech limitations until someone invents another breakthrough in technology that allows for significantly higher performance for the mainstream (without ridiculous costs).

They need to stop dragging it out and do it already; upgradeable consoles. Even though that would probably be limited to only specific parts made by specific manufacturers and overpriced. Some people will whine but so what, make it easy enough and they'll get used to it. Implement it properly and it'll be no more difficult than it is today, except the hardware gap between consoles and pc's will be controlled to be much smaller within the ~10 year or whatever life cycle they want to have.

[zexmarquies01]

You only need an HD TV for the PS3 3D.

Sadly, this is not correct.

you need a HD TV that can do 120Hz. a 60Hz TV, no matter how expensive, no matter how big, will *NOT* support current 3D technology.

So pretty much everyone who has an HDTV will need to upgrade. Only a very few people actually own a 120hz TV, unless they bought it in the past 6 months.

[FudgeNuggets]

I hear the new 3D stuff looks the exact same as it did years ago. At least that's what I'm told. I've yet to experience any of the current 3D movies so I cannot throw my opinion out on this one.

I always thought about buying those nvidia 3d glasses since my video card supports it but I could never bring myself to cough up the cash for them just to test it out (You also have to have a high end monitor that supports it as well).

As for the original poster I'd go for the PS3. Free online play, imo a HUGE plus over having to pay for live. Built in wireless. BluRay. Netflix (dunno if xbox supports it, AFAIK it doesn't).

No, the 3D from when I was a kid was better. I remember seeing Jaws 3D and when Lou Gossett JR pulled the pin on that grenade before being eaten, you had shark guts, bones and undigested stuff flying at your head. Everybody in the theater was ducking and dodging. The 3D they have now just has depth of field. Nothing looks like it is going to fly out and hit you.

[tinymouse2]

I don't understand why you can't use a 60Hz monitor for 3d. Sure you would only get the effect of 30fps but surely it should be possible...

[FudgeNuggets]

Sadly, this is not correct.

you need a HD TV that can do 120Hz. a 60Hz TV, no matter how expensive, no matter how big, will *NOT* support current 3D technology.

So pretty much everyone who has an HDTV will need to upgrade. Only a very few people actually own a 120hz TV, unless they bought it in the past 6 months.

Actually, you're wrong too. You need one of the new 3D TVs. Just having a 120hz will not cut it. My Plasma is 600hz but since it isn't the 3D model then there will be no 3D for me and I am totally fine with that.

[FudgeNuggets]

I don't understand why you can't use a 60Hz monitor for 3d. Sure you would only get the effect of 30fps but surely it should be possible...

No, it needs to display 2 60hz images at the same time overlapping. Nvidia already has some 3D garbage device out.

[zexmarquies01]

They need to stop dragging it out and do it already; upgradeable consoles. Even though that would probably be limited to only specific parts made by specific manufacturers and overpriced. Some people will whine but so what, make it easy enough and they'll get used to it. Implement it properly and it'll be no more difficult than it is today, except the hardware gap between consoles and pc's will be controlled to be much smaller within the ~10 year or whatever life cycle they want to have.

Never going to happen. At least, not the way you are thinking. The N64 tried this...people were not very happy.

Imagine going out and buying the new God of War 4, or Gran Turismo 6, Or Madden #45,987, popping it into your console, only to find out that you don't have enough RAM to run it. Or the swapable video card in your console is too old. Or both. So after dropping $60+ on a game, if you want to play it, you will have to go out and drop another $200+ for the upgrades.

And yes, $200+. If they ever added the ability to upgrade a console, manufacturers *WILL* rape you for every dollar possible. Just look at the Official Micfosoft thumb drives for the 360. Or the Official Memory sticks for the PSP. Hell, a new controller costs $50 now.

This idea would *NOT* fly with the GENERAL consumer. The group of guy's how only turn on their 360's to play the newest sports game, or to play the newest halo are NOT techies. First off, they wouldn't know which removable GPU they'd need to buy. They wouldn't know what RAM addon they need. You'd get guys showing up at Best buy, Staples, and walmart grabbing the old PCI video cards sitting on the sheft, and either ask if it will work in their new console, Or they'd straight out buy it, and find out it doesn't work.

Game sales would DROP, by a VERY large percentage. The general consumer would buy the console, not knowing that in the future, it will be required to upgrade it. No matter how many ad's are shown stating this fact, no matter how many people complain about it in forums...quite simply, They will buy it, and expect it to be like all the consoles in the past. Buy console, buy games for 5+ years, and play.

When they find out they have to drop a ton of cash for the newest game, they aren't going to go buy the addon, and the game. They will literally say "Screw this!", and keep playing older games on the console, Or let it just sit in the corner and collect dust, or sell it to gamestop.

TLDR; Won't ever happen, Bad idea for console makers, and game makers, and in general, is a terrible idea.

[zexmarquies01]

Actually, you're wrong too. You need one of the new 3D TVs. Just having a 120hz will not cut it. My Plasma is 600hz but since it isn't the 3D model then there will be no 3D for me and I am totally fine with that.

wait...what?

It was only like 6 months or so ago that everyone, everywhere, was saying that you'd just need a 120Hz TV. So now that's changed, and you need a "special" 3D TV for this sh*t?

[tinymouse2]

No, it needs to display 2 60hz images at the same time overlapping. Nvidia already has some 3D garbage device out.

Stil unsure why you can't have 2 30Hz images at the same time :p

[FudgeNuggets]

Stil unsure why you can't have 2 30Hz images at the same time :p

You have to have a 3D tv to begin with so why make one that's 60hz split 30 when everybody wants a 120, 240 or 600hz tv. It's just a matter of practicality. Pay to play so to speak.

[Younglin]

actually, you're wrong too. You need one of the new 3D TVs. Just having a 120hz will not cut it. My Plasma is 600hz but since it isn't the 3D model then there will be no 3D for me and I am totally fine with that.

Why is that? Why doesn't it work with a regular or even 120Hz tv? I was under the impression the system put the two images on top of each other and the screen just displays it as one. Then the glasses provide the 3D effect.

How wrong am I?

[tinymouse2]

You have to have a 3D tv to begin with so why make one that's 60hz split 30 when everybody wants a 120, 240 or 600hz tv. It's just a matter of practicality. Pay to play so to speak.

I sit about 4m away from a 22" monitor while gaming, I can't tell much difference between 30fps and 60fps at that distance :p
Admittedly the 3d effect would probably be wasted but if it was a free service would be nice to check out.

[Younglin]

I can't tell much difference between 30fps and 60fps at that distance

Really? I can't have my frames below 45 or it looks choppy to me.

[FudgeNuggets]

Why is that? Why doesn't it work with a regular or even 120Hz tv? I was under the impression the system put the two images on top of each other and the screen just displays it as one. Then the glasses provide the 3D effect.

How wrong am I?

They may eventually make some HDMI device that will emulate this but the programming in standard TVs is not there to accept 2 60hz images at the same time on the screen. That's why they came out with those premium priced 3D TVs.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+55%22+Class+/+1080p+/+240Hz+/+3D+LED-LCD+HDTV/9798538.p?id=1218176210288&skuId=9798538&st=3d&cp=1&lp=5

Same size as my plasma, $800 more plus $300 for 2 pairs of glasses
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+50%22+Class+/+1080p+/+600Hz+/+3D+Plasma+HDTV/9809723.p?id=1218177168447&skuId=9809723&st=3d&cp=1&lp=8

[blueswitch]

Just because your TV does a certain refresh rate doesn't mean it has the ability to split that refresh rate into displaying separate fields. Thus you need a 3D TV. Tinymouse your also making an assumption that your TV also can be run at 30hz...just because it does 60hz doesn't mean the electronics support going down to 30hz. My TV can do 1280x768 but can't display 640x480.

My personal opinion on 3D is that in it's current form it'll never take hold. Nobody wants to buy $40+ glasses for everyone in the house...not to mention the majority of people on HDTV have done so pretty recently and arn't willing to buy a new TV 1.5-2 years later. 3D that requires no glasses is already being worked on by several manufactures....that's the iteration of 3D TV that will actually take hold in a market place......until then it's just early adopters with money to burn on short life technology who will buy into 3D currently.

[tinymouse2]

Really? I can't have my frames below 45 or it looks choppy to me.

I usually only play games at about 10:30 or later so it's dark while playing. Same technique as cinemas use :D

Also jitters are less noticeable when you're far away, personal experience! Have nothing to back that up except my own experience.

[FudgeNuggets]

You only need an HD TV for the PS3 3D.


You obviously don't know much about the PS3. It has an 8 core ( one is locked) cell processor.

YOU obviously don't know much about the PS3. SPEs are NOT cores. It has ONE core. The 360 has 3.

[FudgeNuggets]

Just because your TV does a certain refresh rate doesn't mean it has the ability to split that refresh rate into displaying separate fields. Thus you need a 3D TV. Tinymouse your also making an assumption that your TV also can be run at 30hz...just because it does 60hz doesn't mean the electronics support going down to 30hz. My TV can do 1280x768 but can't display 640x480.

My personal opinion on 3D is that in it's current form it'll never take hold. Nobody wants to buy $40+ glasses for everyone in the house...not to mention the majority of people on HDTV have done so pretty recently and arn't willing to buy a new TV 1.5-2 years later. 3D that requires no glasses is already being worked on by several manufactures....that's the iteration of 3D TV that will actually take hold in a market place......until then it's just early adopters with money to burn on short life technology who will buy into 3D currently.

yep, you get it. Which isn't surprising with your avatar panda having analglyphic glasses and all

[arcanise]

PS3 has 8 cells one is off the cells work in parallel instead of series therefore allowing fast single tasked operations but slower multi tasked ops, the 360 needs 3 series cores to keep up with this speed

[FudgeNuggets]

PS3 has 8 cells one is off the cells work in parallel instead of series therefore allowing fast single tasked operations but slower multi tasked ops, the 360 needs 3 series cores to keep up with this speed

They're called SPEs not cells. The Cell is the name of the whole CPU. Here is what SPEs are:

Synergistic Processing Elements (SPE)
Each SPE is composed of a "Synergistic Processing Unit", SPU, and a "Memory Flow Controller", MFC (DMA, MMU, and bus interface).[35] An SPE is a RISC processor with 128-bit SIMD organization[31][36][37] for single and double precision instructions. With the current generation of the Cell, each SPE contains a 256 KiB embedded SRAM for instruction and data, called "Local Storage" (not to be mistaken for "Local Memory" in Sony's documents that refer to the VRAM) which is visible to the PPE and can be addressed directly by software. Each SPE can support up to 4 GiB of local store memory. The local store does not operate like a conventional CPU cache since it is neither transparent to software nor does it contain hardware structures that predict which data to load. The SPEs contain a 128-bit, 128-entry register file and measures 14.5 mm2 on a 90 nm process. An SPE can operate on sixteen 8-bit integers, eight 16-bit integers, four 32-bit integers, or four single-precision floating-point numbers in a single clock cycle, as well as a memory operation. Note that the SPU cannot directly access system memory; the 64-bit virtual memory addresses formed by the SPU must be passed from the SPU to the SPE memory flow controller (MFC) to set up a DMA operation within the system address space.

In one typical usage scenario, the system will load the SPEs with small programs (similar to threads), chaining the SPEs together to handle each step in a complex operation. For instance, a set-top box might load programs for reading a DVD, video and audio decoding, and display, and the data would be passed off from SPE to SPE until finally ending up on the TV. Another possibility is to partition the input data set and have several SPEs performing the same kind of operation in parallel. At 3.2 GHz, each SPE gives a theoretical 25.6 GFLOPS of single precision performance.

Compared to a modern personal computer, the relatively high overall floating point performance of a Cell processor seemingly dwarfs the abilities of the SIMD unit in desktop CPUs like the Pentium 4 and the Athlon 64. However, comparing only floating point abilities of a system is a one-dimensional and application-specific metric. Unlike a Cell processor, such desktop CPUs are more suited to the general purpose software usually run on personal computers. In addition to executing multiple instructions per clock, processors from Intel and AMD feature branch predictors. The Cell is designed to compensate for this with compiler assistance, in which prepare-to-branch instructions are created. For double-precision floating point operations, as sometimes used in personal computers and often used in scientific computing, Cell performance drops by an order of magnitude, but still reaches 20.8 GFLOPS (1.8 GFLOPS per SPE, 6.4 GFLOPS per PPE). The PowerXCell 8i variant, which was specifically designed for double-precision, reaches 102.4 GFLOPS in double-precision calculations.[38]

Recent tests by IBM show that the SPEs can reach 98% of their theoretical peak performance using optimized parallel Matrix Multiplication.[32]

Toshiba has developed a co-processor powered by four SPEs, but no PPE, called the SpursEngine designed to accelerate 3D and movie effects in consumer electronics.

[benbaked]

http://www.edepot.com/playstation4.html

There is some fun speculation I found about the hardware and abilities of the PS4 (and PS5)....:D

[Younglin]

YOU obviously don't know much about the PS3. SPEs are NOT cores. It has ONE core. The 360 has 3.

Everything I have read says that it has 8 cores. 1 of which is locked and one of which is reserved for system use.

[arcanise]

well it switches according to that paragraph, in serial mode its one giant very fast core, but when in parallel mode its those 8 cores

[FudgeNuggets]

You don't understand the architecture or the literature then. The SPEs are not cores, they are similar to DSP processors in audio equipment, they are specialized units that offload work from the CPU. They cannot function on their own like a core can.

Both the 360 and the PS3 have the same 3.2GHZ PPC CPU. The 360 has 3 of them. The PS3 has 1. The PS3 however has the 7 SPEs that offload work from the main CPU. It all equals out in the end really, the Cell however has a major learning curve to program for so a lot of developers chose to make the 360 or the PC the main platform for programming and just port the game over to the PS3 which is why the first few waves of games looked better on the 360 than the PS3.

We've been over this several times when the systems were first released.

The important thing to know is that SPEs are NOT cores.

[Frogbones]

Lets say it together one more time....SPEs are not Cores.

[Andrew149]

oppps

[Andrew149]

Content edited for members misbehaving and improper Forum edicate.

We DO NOT BASH or BAD MOUTH other members here.

WarriorII

[FudgeNuggets]

You obviously don't know much about the PS3. It has an 8 core ( one is locked) cell processor



MOD EDIT who cares about a 8 core its not better in the game play the 360 isnt slow its not laggy and its far supior to a jap crap product microsoft destroys the ps3 in games like gears 2 which has been number 1 for like for ever its not about the hardware in the gameing system its about is it fun to play about the social crap not about oh it has a 8core processor so it must be better get real noob

In English please......

FTR, The 360 is about as American as the food down at the Spinning Wok. It's fabbed and assembled (poorly) by FoxConn in Thailand and China.

[tinymouse2]

Lots of insults flying around now O.o
Pretty sad to see a fanboy (Andrew149) shout about how his pretty little console isn't amazingly powerful.

Fudge is completely correct on everything he's said, no need to get angry about said facts :p

[benbaked]

I think he was replying to someone else in this thread, not Fudge.

Anyway, PS3 has the leg up on the competition because you can natively run linux on it....oh wait..... :(

[Douken]

I've always said that consoles are already max out because of their GPUs. 7000 Series of nVidia for PS3 and X1000 for Xbox 360 those both generations were the last generation of hardware supporting DirectX 9 after those generations, the next ones supported DirectX 10. If only they would have waited a bit more, for example, the PS3 was launched and the next year GeForce 8000 series came in. DirectX 10 has certain rules and requirements and one of them is that Anti Aliasing x4 is supported without loss in performance. The games in the current consoles run at low resolutions, and hardly have any anti aliasing. And if you look closer, there aren't many recent games with good graphics and I blame it to consoles. Everyone is so focused on consoles because they render more money, but these same consoles are developed under an antic API (DirectX 9) which in the end means you won't be seen good graphics in games, probably Crysis 2 will be the max you will see in the current gen of consoles and that's it. The graphics development is being slowed down. Moore's Law is not being applied anymore, nVidia went as far as saying Moore's Law is dead. And you can blame consoles for me. All of these consoles came at the wrong time. They should have waited a bit longer.

PS: What's up with a new sega console? Is this true?

[Douken]

You obviously don't know much about the PS3. It has an 8 core ( one is locked) cell processor.



seriously shut up who cares about a 8 core its not better in the game play the 360 isnt slow its not laggy and its far supior to a jap crap product microsoft destroys the ps3 in games like gears 2 which has been number 1 for like for ever its not about the hardware in the gameing system its about is it fun to play about the social crap not about oh it has a 8core processor so it must be better get real noob

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/announcement.php?f=23&a=40

Absolutely NO personal attacks will be tolerated, no exceptions!
I think someone should do some reading...

[arcanise]

the xbox fan boys seem to forget thay cant watch blu-ray and they have to buy add ons such as bigger HDD's and wire-less cards, which teh PS3 comes with standard, oh and not to mention the ps3 never RROD's, the biggest problem i see with teh ps3 is.....uhm......****.......uhm......no controller ports?!....no thats not a good one it uses blue tooth for controllers.........well......uhm....it doesnt.......damn........internet is free!!!......wait no thats a good thing......game selection is bigger =[.......no wait i forgot thats what you want......hrmmm come to think of it.....the ps3 is well.....better in every way i can see except theres way to many fan boys of xbox claiming the xbox is more sociable when it has no more features than the PS3 as far as social networking is involved


yes i realize i am an ass hole and yes i do make people feel dumb. if you dont like it ill just throw virtual spaghetti at your face

[tinymouse2]

the xbox fan boys seem to forget thay cant watch blu-ray and they have to buy add ons such as bigger HDD's and wire-less cards, which teh PS3 comes with standard, oh and not to mention the ps3 never RROD's, the biggest problem i see with teh ps3 is.....uhm......****.......uhm......no controller ports?!....no thats not a good one it uses blue tooth for controllers.........well......uhm....it doesnt.......damn........internet is free!!!......wait no thats a good thing......game selection is bigger =[.......no wait i forgot thats what you want......hrmmm come to think of it.....the ps3 is well.....better in every way i can see except theres way to many fan boys of xbox claiming the xbox is more sociable when it has no more features than the PS3 as far as social networking is involved


yes i realize i am an ass hole and yes i do make people feel dumb. if you dont like it ill just throw virtual spaghetti at your face

I'm detecting a PS3 fanboy... :p

I think everyone should just enjoy what they have. All those people who shout and swear over the internet need to walk outside and interact with some real people.

You're meant to enjoy games. Does it really matter which one is best? I love the wii simply because if someone plays the wii you know all they want is a bit of a laugh.
360 fanboys are usually the people who go to parties saying how they've had sex with >100 women but actually are still virgins and have no idea how to talk to women (or vice versa).
PS3 fanboys are usually the kind of person who hasn't really been outside in a while and really isn't worried about what he/she looks like.

Just found this to be the case when people have argued at school, they match the stereotypes quite well :D

[arcanise]

im a marine so where does that put me?

[tinymouse2]

It's a stereotype. I haven't seen a pic of you or know pretty much anything about you so I can't really say if you fall into said stereotype.

[Mpegger]

I've always said that consoles are already max out because of their GPUs. 7000 Series of nVidia for PS3 and...

The nVidia GPU in the PS3 is a crutch for game developers who didn't know how to program for the Cell. The Cell is capable of doing graphics entirely in the SPEs without need of a separate GPU. There is one recent game (dunno if its been released yet or not) that is rendered entirely by the Cell, so one can't really say that the PS3 is maxed out as the graphics performance of the Cell has hardly been touched besides the nVidia chip.

PS: What's up with a new sega console? Is this true?
I could have sworn this was just some company that licensed thier name to release one of those "all in one" units that play a bunch of thier old titles, similar to those joysticks with a bunch of Atari 2600 games built in.

Sega does still release new arcade hardware, which is just PC hardware with some specialized hardware (mainly hardware encryption).

[ArcturusVi]

the xbox fan boys seem to forget thay cant watch blu-ray and they have to buy add ons such as bigger HDD's and wire-less cards, which teh PS3 comes with standard, oh and not to mention the ps3 never RROD's, the biggest problem i see with teh ps3 is.....uhm......****.......uhm......no controller ports?!....no thats not a good one it uses blue tooth for controllers.........well......uhm....it doesnt.......damn........internet is free!!!......wait no thats a good thing......game selection is bigger =[.......no wait i forgot thats what you want......hrmmm come to think of it.....the ps3 is well.....better in every way i can see except theres way to many fan boys of xbox claiming the xbox is more sociable when it has no more features than the PS3 as far as social networking is involved


yes i realize i am an ass hole and yes i do make people feel dumb. if you dont like it ill just throw virtual spaghetti at your face

I have over 100 songs for Rock Band, all maps for all CODs, Halo, Forza 3 install disc, Forza 2 and 3 car and track packs. About fifteen arcade games. Still sitting at about 4 gigs left, which is more than enough. Oh, and this is on the 20 gig HDD. I recently acquired a 120 gig drive that I will use to install some games. Not a biggie, nor a necessity. Wireless card is not a necessity. Not every household has it, or needs it.

BluRay, still not the mainstream. Which is the reason I have a PS3, or other people just buy standalone devices. Not everyone needs a device to do every single thing.

Free online play? And look at how intuitive and seamless-oh wait, XBL annihilates it in pretty much every regard. And if fifty a year breaks the bank for you, find other hobbies or a better paying job.

The rest of your points are too laughable to really bother myself with. I will say this, though. I do not play favorites. If the PS3 had half the online experience that the 360 does I'd never touch my 360 except for Forza Motorsport(which puts Gran Turismo to shame thus far). Both are seedy conglomerates at heart, and I disagree with about every decision or thing they say. But, seeing as games are a huge hobby of mine, they are a necessary evil.:(

[arcanise]

gran turismo 5 when it comes out is going to be insane and will make me orgasm everytime i turn on my ps3 in thought that GT5 is about to load up, holy **** is it amazing

[tinymouse2]

gran turismo 5 when it comes out is going to be insane and will make me orgasm everytime i turn on my ps3 in thought that GT5 is about to load up, holy **** is it amazing

Lovely...
GT5 still isn't out though? I thought the prologue came out when the PS3 did :/

What's wrong with games like Dirt 2?
If you want realism I doubt GT5 will give it to you. The prologue thingy felt kinda unresponsive and pretty arcadey. Just my opinion though.

[arcanise]

prologue isnt even close to what the actuall is, GT5 has damage, complete car mods and a unique model and a unique bank of sounds for every car with every possible change. and it calculates physics 4 times more than the most recent forza does.....aka near perfect realism....only problem i see is during a nascar race all the cars crashing and lowering FPS to like 2

[tinymouse2]

Doubtful it will be near perfect realism...
I'm sorry but for that you would have to render every single molecule, maybe if everyone in T32 folded for a singular game we might get 2 frames per minute :P

[arcanise]

i vote for every household to own and manage a folding machine so i can play a 100% realistic game

[tinymouse2]

I like the way you think :p

[arcanise]

too bad teh way i think doesnt get me a new Asus MOBO

[ArcturusVi]

GT5 is all talk. I hope it does well, but I doubt it will live up to the hype the dev is giving it. And he is known for hype, look at GT4:-/

And LOL at GT sounds. Every car's engines so far have been muffled by the transmission or just not accurate. And how on Earth is Prologue not close? Isn't that what the idea was, or just to sap money?:confused: Car counts are impressive when it's not 50 versions of one car with slight, insignificant differences.

And this is coming from a guy who spent the summer of his 8th grade playing GT3. GT4 was such a disappointment compared to the hype they gave it. And hopefully Polyphony can drop the blatant and disgusting bias. I can turbocharge a Miata, but not my BMW or Chevrolet?:confused: Or would that put the precious Skyline at risk of not being the fastest car in the game?

Forza isn't perfect, and I certainly hope GT5 can compete or do better. The better the simulators, the happier I am. Just fix those issues.

[arcanise]

10,000 cars in GT5
damage
famous events such as nascar
real world tracks
if you visit a track in real life you can upload your game stats to your gps and give it a go
much more in-depth customization of the cars.

teh list goes on, i think they got it this time

[MZ360]

I love MLB 10 The Show. It's a PS3 exclusive and one of the big reasons I bought a PS3.

I think the game has a great graphics engine..

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/105/1055962/mlb-10-20091216061657311.jpg http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/105/1055962/mlb-10-20091216061700529.jpg http://playstationlifestyle.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Albert-Pujols.jpg

[tinymouse2]

http://www.overclock.net/attachments/pc-games/106817d1240760463-photorealistic-crysis-real-lifesis-mod-discussion-crysis720_rygel_reallifesis1.jpg

:D?

[Younglin]

The important thing to know is that SPEs are NOT cores.

Thanks for the education. =] Didn't mean to sound arrogant or anything.

[xtkxhom3r]

10,000 cars in GT5
damage
famous events such as nascar
real world tracks
if you visit a track in real life you can upload your game stats to your gps and give it a go
much more in-depth customization of the cars.

teh list goes on, i think they got it this time

:attn::attn::attn:

iv been waiting since the dam ps3 came out lol! i bought the dam thing just for that one game.... and its still not out....at this point no one wants it more than i do

[arcanise]

proposed release date is november 2010 last i checked

[Douken]

I don't know anything about Forza, I think I played it once. It felt all right, but I'm a Gran Turismo fan since the 1st one since my hardcore gaming years forza wasn't out. That game is the Final Fantasy of racing games, you have to respect it and that's it. I can only talk for Gran Turismo & Gran Turismo 3 which are the ones I played the most. I've never touched GT4, and just played GT2 like once or twice. So far GT5 is really making me want to buy a PS3.

As for the consoles max out, if it's like Mpegger says then cool. I know japs like to do their own programing trends which US developers are not accustomed to. I do think GT5 will be awesome. If japanese are known for something is for the search of perfection and great specs, the US likes more looks and feel I believe.

PS: It's 1,000 cars for GT5, not 10k

[FudgeNuggets]

Even 1000 cars is a lie. I mean Forza boasts some rediculous amount of cars but they're counting a 2008 Joe's racing 911GT2, a 2008 Bob's racing 911GT2 and a 2008 Fred's racing 911GT2 as 3 separate cars :rolleyes:

Forza is incredible compared to all other previous racing games.

Gran Turismo 5 is becoming Duke Nukem Forever, I'll believe it when it is on the shelves. Then I will buy it.

Agree with the above, MLB The Show is THE definitive baseball game.

I have no loyalty, I've got both systems. To me the 360 has been a major fail beause of the reliability issues. However I like Mass Effect and Gears of War and Forza so I have one.

I have no resentment toward MS, I DID have some for Sony because several laser units failed on my PS1s and PS2s, the issue was bad and Sony would not hone up to it. MS at least extending the warranty and fixing the 360s was commendable. The PS3 however unlike the PS1 and PS2 have been rock solid.

[Douken]

Since I don't know how Forza is, can u do a comparison with GT? Like things in common, and things different?

I didn't even knew it was a simulator.

Even 1000 cars is a lie. I mean Forza boasts some rediculous amount of cars but they're counting a 2008 Joe's racing 911GT2, a 2008 Bob's racing 911GT2 and a 2008 Fred's racing 911GT2 as 3 separate cars :rolleyes:


why not? Different guys make different modifications for cars and the specs are very different from each other.

Or are you going to say the Ferrari FXX based on the Enzo is the same car? The Gemballa (Joe's) MIG-U1 looks almost the same as the Ferrari FXX on the outside but is as well based on the Enzo. Does that makes it the same as Enzo, or same as FXX when the specs are not even near the same?

Read here (http://www.fast-autos.net/vehicles/Gemballa/2010/MIG-U1/) if you want to see what modifications this car I'm mentioning has compared to the Enzo.

PS: I hope the Gemballa MIG-U1 comes in GT5, maybe its hoping for too much but that's the sickest looking car I've seen.

Ferrari FXX
http://cdn-www.rsportscars.com/images/ferrari/2005-ferrari-fxx/ferrari_fxx_w800.jpg

Gemballa MIG-U1
http://blog.niot.net/blog-images/gemballa-mig-u1-fully-prepped-for-its-next-sortie.jpg

[deathman20]

Im loosing faith in GT series. Ever since I played GT3, its what started me into racing games again since the time before that was some nascar game on the PC. I love GT3, probably one of my most played games on my PS2. Then once I sold my PS2, I had an Xbox and started playing Forza. It was good, though it was different than GT3 at the time. Still liked GT3 better.

So by then the PSP was out and they where announcing a GT Mobile game. I bought the hype and got a PSP, and waited years before selling it, and then finally they decided to come out with it a few months after I sold my PSP. GT5 now, while yes I don't have the PS3 and do have a X360, has yet to be released. Yet its been announced for years, even releasing a mini-game/demo to pay & play in the mean time. It would have to be one spectacular game to get any remote of intrest in me to consider getting it.

Though of course in the mean time I played Forza 2, and playing Forza 3 and highly enjoying the new one vastly over other racing games I've played. Im sure GT5 will be good but with all the hype surrounding it I've lost intrest and faith in the series for now.

Though im really curious what on the GT5 disk is taking up all the space of a Blu-Ray. Is it more cars, tracks, textures, sound, videos?


Still for a consoles itself. Even since the PS3 was later to the game they decided to release even later and put a better GPU in it, it could of cost the company even more because of it being on the leading edge of tech with that as well. PS3's cell is nice, it does have a lot of power behind it though its hard to program for, X360's Tri Core Proc is nice as well, easier to program for and it makes porting easier to do. Though while yes the GPU's might be limiting the consoles, or even the CPU's in some cases, people are forgetting another part... The Memory.

PS3 & X360 has 512Megs of ram. Course its broken down a little more then that...
X360 has 512Megs unified ram (can use between GPU and CPU fully) + 10Megs on the GPU for AA
PS3 has 256Megs for the GPU & 256Megs for the Cell (not sure if they can cross communicate though)
While at a low res of 1280x720 you'd think that sure no problem but take a look at PC games. Yes they are on a different platform, and different OS which is more bloated and has to accept wider range of equipment (adds to bloat) though how many games can you think of that might take 450Megs of ram for both the system and GPU side of things at 1280x720? I mean WoW probably takes up a load, I know EVE Online takes up over 300-400Megs on the executable and another 250Megs on the GPU. Other games can run over just a gig on the executable portion of the program, and thats not counting what goes on in the GPU.

They need to up the memory to at least 1Gig, but even in this day and age, slap 2Gigs in there, will give programers more freedom, and might as well make the console last longer before its topped out, or so programers don't have to drop quality down in scenes because they are low on ram (if they have the hosepower to spare still).

[Douken]

As for the people saying GT5 is taking a lot of time I'll just say 2 things.

1. These people are perfectionist, and having 1,000 cars just makes it take more time and that's mentioning one thing.

2. Is not like Polyphony Digital hasn't been busy with other things.*

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphony_Digital

[FudgeNuggets]

Douken, the main differences other than graphics obviously because Forza is newer is that the cars drive much more like real cars, sound more like their real life counterparts and perform more like their real life counterparts. Also the options in the game far excede Gran Turismo's. For example if you're a rookie driver you can turn on ABS, traction control, stability control, driving line assist, auto braking, automatic/manual, opponent difficulty and other stuff I'm sure that I'm forgetting.

What's also really nice is that unlike Gran Turismo, you can't just throw every upgrade on a car and expect to beat a much better car. Sure you can have a 700hp Celica, but you can't drive it. You'll still get toasted by the 500hp Corvette.

Gran Turismo is so arcadey compared to Forza. I like taking a car from the 70s, turning off traction control, stability control and ABS and then driving it, because that is how they were made and meant to be driven.

[arcanise]

you can turn all of that off in GT4

[Douken]

as well in GT3

I'm not getting why you say the "arcadey" remark :shrug:. I just recently watched some reviews and review videos of Forza 3. To me it looks great, a well done game and it kinda remembers me of Halo by the fact that is a well done game without or almost any flaws but you know there are many other games that people may prefer over it. I think GT series and Forza each have their own good things. I think that finally Xbox got a good racing sim and having them GT5 and FMS3 exclusive on each system makes it good. :)

[deathman20]

As for the people saying GT5 is taking a lot of time I'll just say 2 things.

1. These people are perfectionist, and having 1,000 cars just makes it take more time and that's mentioning one thing.

2. Is not like Polyphony Digital hasn't been busy with other things.*

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphony_Digital

1) Yes perfectionists, true, though taking 6+ years at this point with over 150+ people working on it. Though 1,000 car thing the major time consuming portion of it is getting the model and making it work with the engine, just from seeing how long it was mentioned with Forza 3 and how they did it. Yes it takes time but there is no 1,000 car models to scan in and make. Paint, Decals, Specs sure... but not the most time consuming part.

2) Yes, GT (PSP) which as well was years in the making :/ Only reason that one took longer is because they started to pull people off it to work on GT5.

[Douken]

1) Yes perfectionists, true, though taking 6+ years at this point with over 150+ people working on it. Though 1,000 car thing the major time consuming portion of it is getting the model and making it work with the engine, just from seeing how long it was mentioned with Forza 3 and how they did it. Yes it takes time but there is no 1,000 car models to scan in and make. Paint, Decals, Specs sure... but not the most time consuming part.

2) Yes, GT (PSP) which as well was years in the making :/ Only reason that one took longer is because they started to pull people off it to work on GT5.

Well, IMHO they haven't take much time doing this game. I can wait another year and a half.

BTW, I found this list, pretty damn ludicrous.

GT5 preliminary Carlist (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/gaming/33712-gran-turismo-5-a.html) (2007)
FMS3 Carlist (http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/forzamotorsport3/carlist.aspx) (2009)

PS: Polyphony Digital has 110 Employees. As stated here (http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/index.html).

On topic, these generation of consoles have capabilities of adding new content boosting the replay value and thus prolonging their life expectancy . Though, I would like to see hardware upgrades of some sort.

[FudgeNuggets]

as well in GT3

I'm not getting why you say the "arcadey" remark :shrug:. I just recently watched some reviews and review videos of Forza 3. To me it looks great, a well done game and it kinda remembers me of Halo by the fact that is a well done game without or almost any flaws but you know there are many other games that people may prefer over it. I think GT series and Forza each have their own good things. I think that finally Xbox got a good racing sim and having them GT5 and FMS3 exclusive on each system makes it good. :)

True, but the cars weren't drivable and especially RWD vehicles were near impossible. IT just didn't feel realistic. All the cars drove skatey too. GT5 is supposed to remedy this.

[Douken]

True, but the cars weren't drivable and especially RWD vehicles were near impossible. IT just didn't feel realistic. All the cars drove skatey too. GT5 is supposed to remedy this.
What you mean by skatey?

[don'tknow]

Never going to happen. At least, not the way you are thinking. The N64 tried this...people were not very happy.

Imagine going out and buying the new God of War 4, or Gran Turismo 6, Or Madden #45,987, popping it into your console, only to find out that you don't have enough RAM to run it. Or the swapable video card in your console is too old. Or both. So after dropping $60+ on a game, if you want to play it, you will have to go out and drop another $200+ for the upgrades.

And yes, $200+. If they ever added the ability to upgrade a console, manufacturers *WILL* rape you for every dollar possible. Just look at the Official Micfosoft thumb drives for the 360. Or the Official Memory sticks for the PSP. Hell, a new controller costs $50 now.

This idea would *NOT* fly with the GENERAL consumer. The group of guy's how only turn on their 360's to play the newest sports game, or to play the newest halo are NOT techies. First off, they wouldn't know which removable GPU they'd need to buy. They wouldn't know what RAM addon they need. You'd get guys showing up at Best buy, Staples, and walmart grabbing the old PCI video cards sitting on the sheft, and either ask if it will work in their new console, Or they'd straight out buy it, and find out it doesn't work.

Game sales would DROP, by a VERY large percentage. The general consumer would buy the console, not knowing that in the future, it will be required to upgrade it. No matter how many ad's are shown stating this fact, no matter how many people complain about it in forums...quite simply, They will buy it, and expect it to be like all the consoles in the past. Buy console, buy games for 5+ years, and play.

When they find out they have to drop a ton of cash for the newest game, they aren't going to go buy the addon, and the game. They will literally say "Screw this!", and keep playing older games on the console, Or let it just sit in the corner and collect dust, or sell it to gamestop.

TLDR; Won't ever happen, Bad idea for console makers, and game makers, and in general, is a terrible idea.

The problem is not the idea, it's the implementation. Which is why I said "if properly implemented". So far we haven't seen it properly implemented because the goal for the people who attempted it was not to provide customer-satisfying results with minimal extra costs. It was to make more money by screwing over the customer in some cases.

N64 had some games which required Expansion Pack - aka, the bad way to do it. Like Donkey Kong 64. And some that didn't, like Turok 2. You got a nice resolution upgrade in Turok2 for using it, while without it is just as playable but at the standard N64 res all other games run (320x240 or slightly higher, forgot).

[Douken]

My Donkey Kong copy included the expansion pack. So I didn't need to buy anything else and I did notice the graphics were different.

[arcanise]

if you want something that can be upgraded for extra graphics/better games get a desktop *editted - let's leave that out in the future, YHPM - IMOG*

[don'tknow]

Oh, good advice! I obviously don't have a desktop.

[arcanise]

hell a good computer can now emulate a ps3 with decent frame rates

[zexmarquies01]

The problem is not the idea, it's the implementation. Which is why I said "if properly implemented". So far we haven't seen it properly implemented because the goal for the people who attempted it was not to provide customer-satisfying results with minimal extra costs. It was to make more money by screwing over the customer in some cases.


And I'm saying that is will NEVER be properly implemented.

Developers, Publishers, and Console makers are not charities. They are businesses which are required by law to try to make money. Share Holders are legally allowed to sue companies they own stock in, if the company does something that won't make money. ( Though, not all developers are public corporations ).

The companies making these upgrades for consoles will price gouge the consumer. You will see the "official" sony/MS/Nintendo brand name upgrades that cost nearly twice as much as all the others.

And I still stand by my point, that even *IF* it were implemented correctly, your average gamer, and the casual gamers will end up just walking away.

Plus, How can it be "implemented correctly". quite simply, the games that come out later in the console's life will most likely require the newest upgrades to play. And while some may not end up REQUIRING the upgrade, without it, you will be stuck with lower res textures, worse shadows, lower resolution, very little or no AA. Your average and casual gamers will not go for that.

PLUS, the developers would HATE the idea. Now not only do they have to code the game for that specific console, but they have to code it will all the variables of each upgrade that they know about. At that point, they might as well just say screw it, and put the game out on the PC. Not to mention, this will cause games to get quite a bit bigger in data size, and end up causing more bloat as well. Because games on consoles are created SPECIFICALLY for that consoles hardware, the bloat, and inefficiencies is significantly less. There's a reason why a console can get away with having only 256 megs of System ran and 256 Megs of video ram. While the same game on your PC will require a Gig System ram, and a video card with at least 512 Megs of Video ram.

This idea will cause games to get sloppy, inefficient, bloated ( the games will require multiple discs ), The production time will go up, along with the cost. And with so many companies getting bought out, or going bankrupt, the last thing we need is for games to get even MORE expensive to make.

[deathman20]

BTW, I found this list, pretty damn ludicrous.

GT5 preliminary Carlist (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/gaming/33712-gran-turismo-5-a.html) (2007)
FMS3 Carlist (http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/forzamotorsport3/carlist.aspx) (2009)

Yeah the car list is nuts. If there is that many now, guess how much they will put in next time!

PS: Polyphony Digital has 110 Employees. As stated here (http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/index.html).

Might have 110 Employees but doesn't mean they contracted others to work on the project as well outside the company, it was something the president of the company said.

[FudgeNuggets]

Can't wait to run the Ariel Atom around "the Ring"

[MZ360]

hell a good computer can now emulate a ps3 with decent frame rates

You mean PS2 ?

[ArcturusVi]

My Donkey Kong copy included the expansion pack. So I didn't need to buy anything else and I did notice the graphics were different.

They had to do that otherwise it would have never sold. They did something similar with Perfect Dark, but two copies were made in case people already had the pack. As far as I know, DK64 only came with it.

Console upgrades are a pain. Unless they are optional and inconsequential to game code, like the 360 HDD, they will never work right. By time an upgrade is needed for a console, it will be more cost effective for everyone for a different console altogether. PCs get away with the different hardware because no two people have the same use and wear/tear on their PC.


I think that GT5 car list is a lot of dreams. I love, LOVE me some classics, but no desire to drive them in a game like that. Not an attack on it, but really...a woody? :confused:

[Younglin]

You mean PS2 ?

No there are emulators for the ps3 and they aren't that hard to run. I won't like/mention names here for the sake of forum rules but you can google it if so desired. I played MGS4 on my comp. ( I hated that game btw)

[don'tknow]

And I'm saying that is will NEVER be properly implemented.

Developers, Publishers, and Console makers are not charities. They are businesses which are required by law to try to make money. Share Holders are legally allowed to sue companies they own stock in, if the company does something that won't make money. ( Though, not all developers are public corporations ).

The companies making these upgrades for consoles will price gouge the consumer. You will see the "official" sony/MS/Nintendo brand name upgrades that cost nearly twice as much as all the others.

And I still stand by my point, that even *IF* it were implemented correctly, your average gamer, and the casual gamers will end up just walking away.

Plus, How can it be "implemented correctly". quite simply, the games that come out later in the console's life will most likely require the newest upgrades to play. And while some may not end up REQUIRING the upgrade, without it, you will be stuck with lower res textures, worse shadows, lower resolution, very little or no AA. Your average and casual gamers will not go for that.

PLUS, the developers would HATE the idea. Now not only do they have to code the game for that specific console, but they have to code it will all the variables of each upgrade that they know about. At that point, they might as well just say screw it, and put the game out on the PC. Not to mention, this will cause games to get quite a bit bigger in data size, and end up causing more bloat as well. Because games on consoles are created SPECIFICALLY for that consoles hardware, the bloat, and inefficiencies is significantly less. There's a reason why a console can get away with having only 256 megs of System ran and 256 Megs of video ram. While the same game on your PC will require a Gig System ram, and a video card with at least 512 Megs of Video ram.

This idea will cause games to get sloppy, inefficient, bloated ( the games will require multiple discs ), The production time will go up, along with the cost. And with so many companies getting bought out, or going bankrupt, the last thing we need is for games to get even MORE expensive to make.

All those problems are not as difficult to avoid as you make them seem. Even shoddy implementations of some upgradability haven't been all bad. It's a matter of the right people executing it properly, which in itself is only a matter of time. Consoles won't stay the same forever; it's pretty much inevitable that there will be some upgradability within the next few console generations, and depending on if they do it right (and get good results) it will be further expanded in future generations.

Hardly matters what we want to think will or will not happen. Staying in the past won't last forever. :/

[ArcturusVi]

All those problems are not as difficult to avoid as you make them seem. Even shoddy implementations of some upgradability haven't been all bad. It's a matter of the right people executing it properly, which in itself is only a matter of time. Consoles won't stay the same forever; it's pretty much inevitable that there will be some upgradability within the next few console generations, and depending on if they do it right (and get good results) it will be further expanded in future generations.

Hardly matters what we want to think will or will not happen. Staying in the past won't last forever. :/

But it won't/can't be cost effective. Four hundred for a console versus another 100-200 for an upgrade. How many people other than the niche hardcore or in the know people will bother? None. The bulk of people buying games will not care. Most people see gaming as a luxury at best and get bothered at the cost of a separate controller, let alone some new gizmo they have to disassemble or what have you to implement to an existing console. It won't happen.

All add-ons save for the N64 X-pack were pretty much niche markets or complete and total failures.

[FudgeNuggets]

From what I've seen, I believe after this next generation of consoles then hardware is going to be nearly inconsequential. They'll render everything server side and stream it. Hell, I've seen demos of people playing full blown maxxed out everything Crysis on a netbook due to server side rendering and streaming.

[xtkxhom3r]

From what I've seen, I believe after this next generation of consoles then hardware is going to be nearly inconsequential. They'll render everything server side and stream it. Hell, I've seen demos of people playing full blown maxxed out everything Crysis on a netbook due to server side rendering and streaming.

there have been other threads for that topic but i really dont think thats gonna work with our current bandwidth limitations.... some ppl will be able too but most wont have the required bandwidth for no input lag imo....

[tinymouse2]

Also internet dropouts?
It's never going to happen unless you have a fibre optic connection directly plugged into the computer that's rendering it.

[KaiPLN]

What about OnLive And their "MicroConsole"??

What do you guys think will it be a success or an epic fail??
IMO broadband needs to get cheaper and faster for that to get decent publicity..

I might be wrong but you would need a pretty fast and stable connection
for it to get any decent graphics on that thing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive

http://www.onlive.com/about.html

[tinymouse2]

Fast connection

Low response and minimal jitter

24/7 with guarantee that it won't fail

The knowledge that we'll always be able to play the games (so no server shutdown, EVER) and many other things.


Without those I'll probably never buy a game that uses said system.

[Mpegger]

Not to mention, their cost will be enormous. Your talking about thousands, if not millions of individual players trying to play a game. That means that the company themselves have to obtain, maintain, and pay for the upkeep of said thousands or millions of systems, *and* maintain a network that can handle all that bandwidth with the absolute minimum of latency, and best of graphics with minimal compression.

Huge electrical bills for the systems.

Huge electric bills for the cooling of said systems (let see how hot your room would be with a couple hundred XBox360s in one room, let alone top of the line PCs and PS3s...).

The cost of putting in the infrastructure to be able to handle all that.

I just can't see it being profitable anytime soon, just a huge money sink.


Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but I don't think we're quite there yet in term of infrastructure. If the infrastructure was already there, that will greatly lessen the initial cost and have the ability to reach a huge number of players for a decent price. But without the infrastructure, your talking about a huge initial investment, and then just crossing your fingers and hopeing the players will bite the larger cost to maintain your upkeep.

[KaiPLN]

I knew it is a fail from the start but i want to know OC'ers opinions about this concept :D

[xtkxhom3r]

in other words...its not gonna work lol

[Douken]

Didn't they say their infrastructure is 2030 proof? Or built with plans of staying that long

[Mpegger]

Didn't they say their infrastructure is 2030 proof? Or built with plans of staying that long

THEIR internal infrastructure may be "future proof" till 2030, but what about the external infrastructure? There are still many places regulated to dial-up, with some only having the extremely high latency satellite internet available as a "high speed" option.

Now, if this was Japan, or like some of the Euro countries where some granny has a dedicated OC3 to her home, then sure, the external infrastructure would be there. But it might be 2030 before the US is ever close to that, that is if the internet providers ever get with the program of what the people want/need, and stop trying to milk the public dry for every penny they can possibly get (like that'll ever happen with the way government is now...).

But that's a whole other discussion which isn't allowed here. :beer:

[FudgeNuggets]

I've got a 20 megabit connection. Will work fine for me. Sucks for those who live in a cornfield in Iowa or a wheat field in Saskatchewan but then again when you live in those places you do without a lot that people in the cities have readily available.

[Mpegger]

I've got a 20 megabit connection. Will work fine for me. Sucks for those who live in a cornfield in Iowa or a wheat field in Saskatchewan but then again when you live in those places you do without a lot that people in the cities have readily available.

But so long as they have electricity, they can still plug-in a 360, PS3, or PC and play the same games you do, and do so online even with just a dial-up connection.

Another problem I just thought about; gamer accounts/profiles, media browsing and media playback including DVD/Blu-Ray, online chat services both text and voice. How is this online game system supposed to replace in-home game systems that has all those features and more (like Netflix)?

[FudgeNuggets]

But so long as they have electricity, they can still plug-in a 360, PS3, or PC and play the same games you do, and do so online even with just a dial-up connection.

Another problem I just thought about; gamer accounts/profiles, media browsing and media playback including DVD/Blu-Ray, online chat services both text and voice. How is this online game system supposed to replace in-home game systems that has all those features and more (like Netflix)?

Easy, you don't need all that crap to begin with! LOL