Leaching WiFi

[Dorito Bandit]

I do not have a wireless set-up in my home, but when I get on my laptop I have a list of networks that I can choose to connect to. Some say they are secure, some do not. I've never even tried to connect to any of the unsecure networks, but was wondering if this is okay to do so.

The reason I ask is because I would like to connect to one of those networks while using my laptop in other areas of the house.

I have some questions I'd like to ask.

1. Is connecting to someone's wireless network considered illegal to do? I honestly do not know!

2. If I was to connect to one of the unsecure networks, would they know?

3. How would they know if I connected?

4. Also, since I'm getting their wireless signal in my house, where ever that signal is coming from would have to be a close neighbor, correct?

5. How far will a wireless signal typically reach? I have big oak trees all around in my neighborhood and would think they would seriously affect a signal.

I am asking these questions because I certainly do not want to do anything illegal and cause myself or anyone else any trouble! So, if anyone knows the correct answers to my questions, please let me know.

In the mean time, I'll just stay connected on my desktop.

Thanks in advance and...

HAPPY JULY 4th EVERYONE!!!

[David]

I do not have a wireless set-up in my home, but when I get on my laptop I have a list of networks that I can choose to connect to. Some say they are secure, some do not. I've never even tried to connect to any of the unsecure networks, but was wondering if this is okay to do so.

The reason I ask is because I would like to connect to one of those networks while using my laptop in other areas of the house.

I have some questions I'd like to ask.

1. Is connecting to someone's wireless network considered illegal to do? I honestly do not know!


Quite possibly. In the UK it is illegal under the Computer Misuse Act.


2. If I was to connect to one of the unsecure networks, would they know?


Depends on their setup and computer know-how. Possibly, yes.


3. How would they know if I connected?


The DHCPd probably keeps records of your MAC address.


4. Also, since I'm getting their wireless signal in my house, where ever that signal is coming from would have to be a close neighbor, correct?


Assuming the construction of your house is similar throughout, I guess.


5. How far will a wireless signal typically reach? I have big oak trees all around in my neighborhood and would think they would seriously affect a signal.


Depends if it's a, b, g, or n.

[Amo]

1. Is connecting to someone's wireless network considered illegal to do? I honestly do not know!
It's illegal in the United States,

2. If I was to connect to one of the unsecure networks, would they know?
More than likely, if they're leaving their network unsecured they probably have no idea what they're doing, so it's doubtful that they would be able to tell if there are other users on their network. There are ways to tell how many computers are connected to the network, but even if you have that information you couldn't really tell where the computer is, for instance if you're in an apartment complex and assume everyone has a computer, they'd have to knock on every door.

3. How would they know if I connected?
I can't remember what Anti Virus my mom was using, but it was like Trend Micro or Avast, I can't remember, but there was a configuration to tell what all the devices connected to the router were, and her internet had been unsecure for years, there was 4 additional computers connected to the network. You can also probably look up the IP addresses connected to the router.

4. Also, since I'm getting their wireless signal in my house, where ever that signal is coming from would have to be a close neighbor, correct?

If you're talking like you live on a street, sitting in your house and your neighbors have houses around you, yeah. Depending on what kind of router they have, they'd have to be within like 100 feet in order for you to get a decent signal that you could actually stay connected to.

5. How far will a wireless signal typically reach? I have big oak trees all around in my neighborhood and would think they would seriously affect a signal.

It's a complete variation depending on what kind of signal, what kind of router, if they have any sort of boosting mechanics, even getting down to the details, there could be pipes or metals in the walls that could hinder the signal.

[Dorito Bandit]

Thanks for the quick replies, guys. This info can be helpful to me when I decide to install a wireless setup in my home. Some good things to consider.

I just was thinking that since their wireless signal was coming inside my house, I had a right to connect to it if I wanted to do so. You know, that signal is trespassing into my home (so to speak). Bad thinking I guess!:D

[MARCI]

In my opinion, if the network is broadcasting an SSID which doesn't make it clear it's private, with no encryption, It's not a violation of computer tampering or misuse laws. Essentially they're broadcasting a great big Welcome sign.

If either SSID broadcast is turned off, or it's using any sort of encryption at all, Or if it's broadcasting an SSID that says "Private", "Restricted", or anything else that indicates they don't want to share their connection, it's off limits.

Also, never do anything on an open network which would negatively impact the owner/operators experience.

No torrents (legal or illegal), no large file transfers, no large uploads, keeping your box clean of malware, etc.

[sfu7274456]

You can be charged with theft of service. Owning a home does not mean you own the rights to RF that comes into your home.

[Dorito Bandit]

In my opinion, if the network is broadcasting an SSID which doesn't make it clear it's private, with no encryption, It's not a violation of computer tampering or misuse laws. Essentially they're broadcasting a great big Welcome sign.

If either SSID broadcast is turned off, or it's using any sort of encryption at all, Or if it's broadcasting an SSID that says "Private", "Restricted", or anything else that indicates they don't want to share their connection, it's off limits.

Also, never do anything on an open network which would negatively impact the owner/operators experience.

No torrents (legal or illegal), no large file transfers, no large uploads, keeping your box clean of malware, etc.

Oh no, I have a desktop hooked up if heavy downloading is needed. I was just thinking of using the laptop for simply browsing the web and smaller file downloading if needed.

After what I've read from you guys, I won't be getting on anyone's wireless. Y'all have scared me from doing so!:D I guess, thank you!:D

Anyway, I see you are from Georgia too, Marci. Dawg fan by any chance? I'm sure you are! That was a silly question to ask!:D

[markp1989]

In my opinion, if the network is broadcasting an SSID which doesn't make it clear it's private, with no encryption, It's not a violation of computer tampering or misuse laws. Essentially they're broadcasting a great big Welcome sign.

If either SSID broadcast is turned off, or it's using any sort of encryption at all, Or if it's broadcasting an SSID that says "Private", "Restricted", or anything else that indicates they don't want to share their connection, it's off limits.

Also, never do anything on an open network which would negatively impact the owner/operators experience.

No torrents (legal or illegal), no large file transfers, no large uploads, keeping your box clean of malware, etc.

i kinda aggree, if the network is unsecure then permision to join it has been implied

when you join, you request a ip address, and the router gives a ip address, there for, the router gives your pc permision to join.


also, be carefull about using open netowrks, the user could of left it open on purpose , so thye can monitor data sent for id theft etc.

[dylskee]

Oh no, I have a desktop hooked up if heavy downloading is needed. I was just thinking of using the laptop for simply browsing the web and smaller file downloading if needed.

So are you saying you already pay for internet service now? If so, why don't you just buy a router and use your own internet and avoid the risk of breaking any laws or (worse in my book) getting your own files hacked and tampered with??

[Dorito Bandit]

So are you saying you already pay for internet service now? If so, why don't you just buy a router and use your own internet and avoid the risk of breaking any laws or (worse in my book) getting your own files hacked and tampered with??

Yes, I have internet service at home (here). Just not a wireless setup. I'll be moving soon and will most likely setup a wireless network at the new home.

I recently got a laptop with a wireless network card in it and discovered there were networks available when I turned the laptop WiFi on. I can always surf on this desktop and was only wanting to check the wireless out on the laptop. I'll wait and try it over at a friends house. Not a big deal. I certainly don't want to cause myself or anyone any trouble. This is why I started this thread!

Again, thanks for the replies and HAPPY 4th OF JULY TO ALL!!!

[CompuTamer]

I'm not sure of the exacts, but as far as i know, if you have to hack into the network, it's illegal. If it's unsecured, i think it's not. I'm not 100% sure though.

Most routers log Wireless traffic, DHCP clients, etc. WiFi can't triangulate worth a crap, but they could find out that someone has been connected to the network, and secure it as a result.

The distance question has a ton of variables. I have a Wireless N router that can barely reach both ends of my house on my Zune. The one i had before this one could reach 2 houses down the road in each direction at maximum power. It was also wireless N, but had external antennas.

[Amo]

I'm not sure of the exacts, but as far as i know, if you have to hack into the network, it's illegal. If it's unsecured, i think it's not. I'm not 100% sure though.


If it's unsecured and unencrypted it's still 100% illegal. In fact, if an ISP catches someone outside of the customers home using the internet with, or without permission (Not like they have any really clear way to tell anyways, but just for informations sake.) the ISP could charge for Theft of Service, because you should be paying them for your own internet, and it makes them poopy faces to not have a paying customer.

Like others in this thread said, I personally think it's stupid that if someone has a completely unsecured network that is reachable in your own home, or apartment complex then it's ridiculous that it would be breaking the law. Don't get me wrong, I understand the opposing side of the argument, people should just know at this point.

I was actually rather surprised at my last apartment complex there were 22 wireless networks in range, which I'd never even seen that many in one place before, AND they were all secure. I don't know if there was a service from the ISP for that apartment complex or what, but I was pretty impressed with peoples security.

But yeah, again. It is 100% illegal to join a network that you are not paying for.

Like I said above, even if you went to a neighbor and said, "Hey I'm picking up my own internet in a few days, but was wondering if I could maybe use yours for the few days I'm without..." It's technically illegal, because only the ISP has the right to give away their services. Also like I said above, it's not like they're going to come to your door saying they know what's up. One last "again" it's stupid the way the whole thing works.

[MARCI]

If it's unsecured and unencrypted it's still 100% illegal. In fact, if an ISP catches someone outside of the customers home using the internet with, or without permission (Not like they have any really clear way to tell anyways, but just for informations sake.) the ISP could charge for Theft of Service, because you should be paying them for your own internet, and it makes them poopy faces to not have a paying customer.

Like others in this thread said, I personally think it's stupid that if someone has a completely unsecured network that is reachable in your own home, or apartment complex then it's ridiculous that it would be breaking the law. Don't get me wrong, I understand the opposing side of the argument, people should just know at this point.

I was actually rather surprised at my last apartment complex there were 22 wireless networks in range, which I'd never even seen that many in one place before, AND they were all secure. I don't know if there was a service from the ISP for that apartment complex or what, but I was pretty impressed with peoples security.

But yeah, again. It is 100% illegal to join a network that you are not paying for.

Like I said above, even if you went to a neighbor and said, "Hey I'm picking up my own internet in a few days, but was wondering if I could maybe use yours for the few days I'm without..." It's technically illegal, because only the ISP has the right to give away their services. Also like I said above, it's not like they're going to come to your door saying they know what's up. One last "again" it's stupid the way the whole thing works.

Connecting to an open network is not stealing service from an ISP, under any permutation of the law. It could be construed as Computer Trespass, or other crimes in regards to using someone elses hardware.

If the owner of the network is on a metered plan (pay for bandwidth) they could probably have you charged with theft, or sue you for damages.

[Amo]

Connecting to an open network is not stealing service from an ISP, under any permutation of the law. It could be construed as Computer Trespass, or other crimes in regards to using someone elses hardware.

If the owner of the network is on a metered plan (pay for bandwidth) they could probably have you charged with theft, or sue you for damages.

Well, I'm personally not a lawyer, I don't really get hung up on the names of laws, imo if you're breaking the law, you're breaking the law and are gunna end up somewhere you don't want to be. But that's just me, I guess some people wouldn't mind doing a years worth of community service or something.

Either way, regarding the topic, it's a felony and it'll hurt if you get cought... if. Found this while I was on a gaming website today actually, lol:
http://compnetworking.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=compnetworking&cdn=compute&tm=54&f=00&tt=12&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/07/technology/personaltech/wireless_arrest/

[darkknight187]

I will link back into the thread graveyard for a thread where I remember posting my opinion on "Wireless Trespassing" the original CNN article is also still available to read if you wish.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397984

Opinions aside fact still say's the person using said unsecured wireless is in the wrong.

[petteyg359]

Well, I'm personally not a lawyer, I don't really get hung up on the names of laws, imo if you're breaking the law, you're breaking the law and are gunna end up somewhere you don't want to be. But that's just me, I guess some people wouldn't mind doing a years worth of community service or something.

Either way, regarding the topic, it's a felony and it'll hurt if you get cought... if. Found this while I was on a gaming website today actually, lol:
http://compnetworking.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=compnetworking&cdn=compute&tm=54&f=00&tt=12&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/07/technology/personaltech/wireless_arrest/

I will link back into the thread graveyard for a thread where I remember posting my opinion on "Wireless Trespassing" the original CNN article is also still available to read if you wish.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397984

Opinions aside fact still say's the person using said unsecured wireless is in the wrong.

I don't think MARCI was saying it isn't wrong. The point was that the ISP has no say in the matter. The person who actually owns the house might not be happy with your actions. The ISP doesn't own the wireless connection, nor do they "own" the bandwidth, as the person in the house has paid for it, so the ISP can't claim theft of anything. Samsung can't sue Bob for stealing a TV from NewEgg's warehouse. NewEgg would be responsible for starting any legal actions.

[MARCI]

I don't think MARCI was saying it isn't wrong. The point was that the ISP has no say in the matter. The person who actually owns the house might not be happy with your actions. The ISP doesn't own the wireless connection, nor do they "own" the bandwidth, as the person in the house has paid for it, so the ISP can't claim theft of anything. Samsung can't sue Bob for stealing a TV from NewEgg's warehouse. NewEgg would be responsible for starting any legal actions.

Exactly.

Also, using a wireless network that broadcasts into your home is way lower on the creep-o-meter than sitting outside someones house, and trying to hide what you're doing.

Also, from one of those articles it sounds like the person using the network was doing more than browsing the internet.

Adding icons onto someones computer? That's naughty