View Full Version : Why don't manufacturers take more care in applying TIM?
I've wondered about this before, why don't manufacturers take a bit more time and care into applying the thermal paste onto GPU's? I mean we've all seen what the applications look like, just gobs of thermal paste slapped on. Surely the people who make these cards must know that a small amount of higher quality paste will make a massive difference, I mean right on the front page today someone said that an application of higher quality paste dropped his GPU temps by 10C under load. It can't be that hard to tell a machine on an assembly line to put a pea sized amount on the center of the gpu, then another machine to press down the heatsink and tighten some screws, can it?
I don't think they really care that much. They probably just want good temps but when producing tons of cards aren't going to fuss over 2 degrees difference because of their TIM application. Most of their buyers probably don't care either, if they do then they don't mind fixing it themselves.
Mr.Guvernment
08-12-10, 08:56 PM
it is done by a machine, what hey put on keeps the card cool enough to be within spec, and that small gob of say AS5 would cost ALOT more to the bottom line in the end considering how many cards they make and sell vs what is returned from overheating.
MattNo5ss
08-12-10, 09:33 PM
It would be nice if they would do that. But they only care about the GPU temps being under the throttling temp while loaded with stock settings. For example, throttling begins at 105C (I think) on Fermi GPUs, so whether the temps are 95C or 60C under load it doesn't matter, it's the same thing to the manufacturers.
There was a 2-3mm thick layer of extremely dried out TIM on my GTX460...kinda annoying.
It would be nice if they would do that. But they only care about the GPU temps being under the throttling temp while loaded with stock settings. For example, throttling begins at 105C (I think) on Fermi GPUs, so whether the temps are 95C or 60C under load it doesn't matter, it's the same thing to the manufacturers.
There was a 2-3mm thick layer of extremely dried out TIM on my GTX460...kinda annoying.
Thats what I'm saying, if it was a 2C difference that would be one thing. But I've seen people reporting 10C or more difference from applying their own TIM on some of the GTX 400 products. Now considering the bad press Nvidia has gotten for the noise and heat of the cards, wouldn't it make a little sense to revise the way they apply their TIM, and take the 480's from a 98C load to somewhere around 88-90C?
badboyeee
08-12-10, 10:36 PM
so should everyone check the TIM on their video card and replace it with their own? especially if overclocking?
so should everyone check the TIM on their video card and replace it with their own? especially if overclocking?
i changed the tim on both my 470's with noctua tim and temps dropped about 9 degrees.
badboyeee
08-12-10, 11:04 PM
i changed the tim on both my 470's with noctua tim and temps dropped about 9 degrees.
does this void the warranty on the video card?
I.M.O.G.
08-12-10, 11:05 PM
Cost. Tight tolerances are expensive when it comes to engineering/mass production. If the majority of buyers don't know the difference and it works good enough for standard use, they do not see the financial advantage of introducing more cost in the production. So loose tolerances allow you to do a good enough job that the thing runs fine and you can produce more for less money - makes good business sense.
There are plenty enthusiasts like us out there, but we're still a niche in a much larger market. There are plenty of people not interested in spending the time concerned with temps.
Cost. Tight tolerances are expensive when it comes to engineering/mass production. If the majority of buyers don't know the difference and it works good enough for standard use, they do not see the financial advantage of introducing more cost in the production. So loose tolerances allow you to do a good enough job that the thing runs fine and you can produce more for less money - makes good business sense.
There are plenty enthusiasts like us out there, but we're still a niche in a much larger market. There are plenty of people not interested in spending the time concerned with temps.
While I understand what your saying and agree that for the lower end cards which make up 95% of the market, crappy TIM and crappy TIM application is fine, I do wish that they would realize that the same people who spend $250+ on a graphics card are the same people who care about temps. I don't think it would hurt them too much financially to spend an extra $5 per card to put a quality application, on say, a $460 GTX 480.
And to be fair, I really only thought about this in light of the 480/470 line, Nvidia could have avoided so much bad press if they had used a better TIM on their GPU's, and the 480 loaded at say, 90C instead of 98-100C.
I.M.O.G.
08-12-10, 11:21 PM
I don't disagree. It wouldn't hurt them much financially - but they aren't trying to do anything at all which hurts. They need the highest possible margins to meet their business goals and get the guy in the corner office that bonus he wants, so if sacrificing $5 per card isn't expected to get any more of your units sold... We're stuck with what we have now. :/
Your point about the nvidia fuss over heat output is a solid one - thats a great example for hindsight, where doing exactly what you are suggesting could have avoided a lot of shaky press.
does this void the warranty on the video card?
no seals were broken so there is no way they would know, and from what i read on the forums evga is pretty liberal with their warranty policies.
CompuTamer
08-13-10, 07:12 PM
Hmmm... i know the 4850 is a pretty cool running card, but would it hurt to go ahead and put some TX-2 on it? I'm really big on silence... i'd like for it to idle at 0% fan if at all possible. (I could before i started running dual monitors and had to jack the clocks up)
Hmmm... i know the 4850 is a pretty cool running card, but would it hurt to go ahead and put some TX-2 on it? I'm really big on silence... i'd like for it to idle at 0% fan if at all possible. (I could before i started running dual monitors and had to jack the clocks up)
Don't think 0% will happen but generally around 40% you can't hear graphics cards fans. Idk about the 4850 though.
SecrtAgentMan
08-13-10, 09:24 PM
You took the thread out of my mind OP, I was just going to post something similar to this.
I took off the heatsink on my 460 to apply my own paste and it was pretty much a blob of paste on the heastink block and barely any on the GPU core.
It pissed me off at how much TIM I had to take off from one block.
||Console||
08-13-10, 09:25 PM
Hmmm... i know the 4850 is a pretty cool running card, but would it hurt to go ahead and put some TX-2 on it? I'm really big on silence... i'd like for it to idle at 0% fan if at all possible. (I could before i started running dual monitors and had to jack the clocks up)
On my 4830 ( when it was on the stock hsf ) i got a 12deg temp drop from using as5 =)
badboyeee
08-13-10, 09:29 PM
You took the thread out of my mind OP, I was just going to post something similar to this.
I took off the heatsink on my 460 to apply my own paste and it was pretty much a blob of paste on the heastink block and barely any on the GPU core.
It pissed me off at how much TIM I had to take off from one block.
how much cooler does it run now?
Joeteck
08-13-10, 09:34 PM
i think the entire process is automated, no humans involved. System puts x amount of cubic centimeters of TIM, heat sink applied, then screwed down. Done.
Mr.Guvernment
08-13-10, 09:40 PM
While I understand what your saying and agree that for the lower end cards which make up 95% of the market, crappy TIM and crappy TIM application is fine, I do wish that they would realize that the same people who spend $250+ on a graphics card are the same people who care about temps. I don't think it would hurt them too much financially to spend an extra $5 per card to put a quality application, on say, a $460 GTX 480.
And to be fair, I really only thought about this in light of the 480/470 line, Nvidia could have avoided so much bad press if they had used a better TIM on their GPU's, and the 480 loaded at say, 90C instead of 98-100C.
Not true, many people hit Dell.com and buy the best of everything having no clue what it can do or how hot it gets, they just want to brag, i would bet that most people who have a $250+ vid card can even tell you exactly what model it is or what company made it...
SecrtAgentMan
08-13-10, 09:46 PM
how much cooler does it run now?
Maybe at the most 1-2C which is nothing, the heatsink is what's bad, it's just a big block, nothing like what you'd see on an aftermarket heatsink.
Just like to point out something I noticed, it appears someone at Nvidia had a brain after all...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncEU1mrN2oc
If you watch this video, it appears that the thermal paste is applied much more carefully and intelligently than I've seen. Solid choice for keeping the 580 cooler.
DeviantV1ral
11-25-10, 06:13 PM
anyone had experience with powercolor? should i reseat mine? would a shiatsu be ok with it?
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