[Solved] 2nd router's LAN can't see 1st router's LAN (need to be one LAN)

[Audioaficionado]

I've got a preexisting Vonage Motorola phone/router set up that has worked well for a few years. All the PC's can see each other and get on the intent plus the VoIP system has worked great also.

I needed a wireless access point for my netbook and got a Linksys WRT54GS and put it on my farthest wired run to my living room for my netbook and a wired PS3 connection which has been working out well for over a year now.

Now I just put together an XP pro SP3 HTPC (Iwill DH800 in sig) for my living room and plugged it into my Liniksys. Gets the internet just fine. However I would like to network with my Win7 pro x64 main rig/file server (Asus Commando in sig) on the other router/LAN and I can't figure out how to get them to see and connect to each other. I have a lot of media I would love to view on my 47" Philips LCD using my HTPC and file server. Both PCs have discovery and file sharing enabled and I've disabled the XP fire wall on the HTPC.

[BugFreak]

You might check out the linking routers wiki over at dd-wrt. I'm not sure which would be best for your situation but maybe the repeater bridge? I t says something about all computers seeing all computers though.

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linking_Routers

[insanemonkey]

How is your Linksys WRT54GS setup. Is it just an access point or is it doing other routing functions? Also are all of the computers in the same IP address range? Do you use the PS3 for any media sharing or does it simply connect to the internet?

[thideras]

Make sure it is setup like this, you probably have NAT/DHCP turned on. Here is how my router is setup.

http://thideras.com/images/linux/dd-wrt_switch/dd-wrt_switch1.png


Make sure to set the "Local IP" to an address that is on the same subnet as your other router, but is NOT in the DHCP range. Set the "DHCP Server" to the IP of your other router.
http://thideras.com/images/linux/dd-wrt_switch/dd-wrt_switch2.png



http://thideras.com/images/linux/dd-wrt_switch/dd-wrt_switch3.png

EDIT: Someone mentioned DD-WRT, I assumed you were running it. See if your router is supported and install it, it is a MASSIVE upgrade to the stock firmware and will give you so many more features. The screenshots above are for DD-WRT.

[Jmtyra]

I'm betting the WRT54GS router's WAN port is connected to a LAN port on your Vonage Motorola phone/router, correct? That's what is creating two different LANs essentially. Quick and dirty fix: move the network jack from the WAN port to the LAN on the WRT54GS and then power cycle the linksys router. You'll need to do an ipconfig /renew on (or reboot) any clients connected to the WRT54GS.

What this does is changes the linksys router into a switch/hub basically. If you have the option to turn off the DHCP client on there, do so, as it will cause you problems.

Having said all that, upgrading/moving to the DD-WRT isn't a bad idea, either. It's just more involved and will take you a bit longer.

Also, how are you attempting to access the files on your main rig/file server? UNC address, net use, etc?

[wizard james]

Iv noticed on a wrt54g* if you disable dhcp you cant use the WAN port for lan, so use 1 of the 4 lan ports and it should just work as a AP purely.

As for dhcp forwarder, that or disabling dhcp services on the wrt54g will do the same thing, i find the later to work better, at least on the size of network i have at work with 40+ systems at once connected and 20 more on wireless.

If you cant get it working, do a ifconfig output and post it here (ipconfig if windows)

[Audioaficionado]

I don't want to use the Linksys as the main gateway due to the designed VoIP function of the Motorola for my Vonage service.

I essentially want to make my Linksys into a wireless access point for my netbook and a switch for any hard wired appliances attached to it's wired LAN ports that can share and be shared with the whole house LAN.

I've tried to make the Linksys a router but not a gateway and then I lose the internet from the Linksys until I set it back to 'gateway'.

I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to networking and the protocols needed to connect and things like VPN pass throughs, etc.

Networking for dummies might be my speed right now LOL.

Thanx for all the responses so far. I'm still trying to understand the concepts of what you are telling me :p

[thideras]

You do not want the linksys to be a router, you want it to be an "Access point" or a "switch". A router implies that it is routing information, which you do not want.

I don't have the stock firmware on my WRT54G anymore, so I can't take screenshots. If I can find the other power brick, I have a spare one laying around that is still stock.

[Jmtyra]

I don't want to use the Linksys as the main gateway due to the designed VoIP function of the Motorola for my Vonage service.

As long as you've got the Motorola router plugged into your broadband connection, then you'll be fine. As thideras says, you don't want it (the linksys) routing your packets. Try the solution I posted earlier and see if that does the trick for you.

Also, once you try that route, list what you're getting for an IP on your file server and your HTPC rig, please.

[Audioaficionado]

I'm betting the WRT54GS router's WAN port is connected to a LAN port on your Vonage Motorola phone/router, correct? That's what is creating two different LANs essentially. Quick and dirty fix: move the network jack from the WAN port to the LAN on the WRT54GS and then power cycle the linksys router. You'll need to do an ipconfig /renew on (or reboot) any clients connected to the WRT54GS.

What this does is changes the linksys router into a switch/hub basically. If you have the option to turn off the DHCP client on there, do so, as it will cause you problems.

Having said all that, upgrading/moving to the DD-WRT isn't a bad idea, either. It's just more involved and will take you a bit longer.

Also, how are you attempting to access the files on your main rig/file server? UNC address, net use, etc?Yes that's exactly correct.

Yes this got me into the LAN where I could see and access all the shares available and still have access to the Internet.

Bad new is that I lost access to the Linksys config access (http://192.168.1.1/) and the wireless stopped working.

[Jmtyra]

Bad new is that I lost access to the Linksys config access (http://192.168.1.1/) and the wireless stopped working.

For the wireless, are you still connected to the AP? If yes, do:
(If on W7, the cmd prompt as an administrator)
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renewAnd see if you can get back on. As for the config website; what is your IP address range? I'm guessing your IPs are 192.168.1.x for clients on the network? If so, this means that your Linksys and Motorola routers default to the same IP. If you're not picky about your IP addressing, then simply change the default IP of your Motorola router from 192.168.1.1 to something else, like 192.168.10.1 (or something in the 192.168.x.x that's not in your DHCP lease range).

Hopefully we can get you going again, else it might be the DD-WRT route after all. :chair:

Edit: You (probably) won't be able to access the config website from a wireless client. I could be wrong, but based on how we have your network topology setup it'll probably be inaccessible.

[Audioaficionado]

Until I switch the cable going to the Motorola's LAN port back from the Linksys' LAN port to the Linksys' WAN port, it won't access the Linksys config page nor will the wireless work.

I've got to get ready for work tonight, but I look forward to figuring the wireless out this weekend.

For now the wife can play her Facebook games on our 47" LCD and play our albums from the file server.

Thanx again

.

[kayson]

In all honesty, it's not worth the hassle to get this kind of set up running on the stock linksys firmware. Trust me, I've done it. It was vastly easier and more reliable after switching to dd-wrt. That being said:

Install dd-wrt: Instructions (http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linksys_WRT54G/GL/GS/GX#WRT54GS). Most of the 54gs versions have instructions but some are missing. Any set of instructions should work though. I recommend using a standard dd-wrt build (not mini, although you might have to flash to mini originally).

Set dd-wrt up as an access point: Instructions (http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Wireless_Access_Point). Basically what thideras posted just as a step by step instruction.

If you really want to use the linksys firmware, I can try to give you some direction based on memory. In either case, do a hard reset of the router by holding the reset button down for 30 seconds. This will restore everything to default settings and should give you access to the router config if you connect to it (definitely use a wired connection for any firmware upgrades, and its just easier to use in general)

[Jmtyra]

In all honesty, it's not worth the hassle to get this kind of set up running on the stock linksys firmware.

I think I'm at that point as well...while we could do it with the stock firmware, it'd be a pain given your unique network topology requirements.

Only other thing I can think of at this point is throwing more hardware at it. If you added a switch: Motorola LAN port -> switch -> Linksys WAN port. Have nothing connected to the Linksys LAN ports, use the wireless/etc, and have the other devices (in the living room?) connected to the switch.

But, that's a pain. Sorry for the circles, but we did try! dd-wrt FTW at this junction. :D

Edit: I wonder what the Linksys had it's subnet set to. Hmmm....

[thideras]

Going based on the information that you've given us:

192.168.15.x is the subnet that your Motorola's router is giving
192.168.1.x is the subnet that your Linksys router is giving

The reason you can't access the Linksys router with the Motorola router is because they are different subnets. You need to get into the configuration for the Linksys router and change the IP address to 192.168.15.x. Obviously, you will want to pick a number that is not currently in use and (preferably) outside of DHCP range of the Motorola router.

If your wireless isn't working, you probably still have DHCP turned on or you don't have it set as an access point. If you can connect to the wireless, what IP address is it giving? If it isn't in the 192.168.15.x range, it isn't setup right.

I know you can do this with the stock firmware as I ran it for over a year without issues.

[Audioaficionado]

#1 (Motorola router) ipconfig from media server

#2 (Linksys) ipconfig from wired HTPC

#3 (Linksys) ipconfig from wireless netbook

Linksys WAN port plugged into Motorola LAN port.
Motorola plugged into Charter cable modem.

.

[thideras]

As I stated, that is not setup correctly. Make sure that DHCP is turned off and any options that allow you to change are set as "switch" or "access point". Post up screenshots of your configuration (blanking out anything you don't want to show).

[Jmtyra]

192.168.15.x is the subnet that your Motorola's router is giving
192.168.1.x is the subnet that your Linksys router is giving


It's been awhile since networking school, but aren't those both Class C networks, and by default (which we see on his screenshots now) those have the same subnet mask, thus they actually are within the same subnet (mask of 255.255.255.0). I'm no networking expert, but since those are both Class C and he's got the same subnet, it "should" be working, right?:shrug:

[kayson]

Linksys WAN port plugged into Motorola LAN port.
I think that's your problem right there. Your linksys router is now splitting the single local ip address from your motorola among all of your devices on the linksys. You want to connect a Motorola LAN port to a Linksys LAN port, probably with a crossover cable (I'm not sure if either has autosensing).

[Jmtyra]

I think that's your problem right there

Agreed, but to clarify, the problem (and network topology) is changing. Originally, that's how he had it setup. However, earlier he swapped it to the a LAN port on his Linksys router (http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6588481&postcount=12). It appears that he has since swapped it back to the original configuration, so we're back to the initial issue discussed earlier. :-/

[thideras]

it "should" be working, right?:shrug:No, they are on different logical networks. I couldn't access my wireless router (192.168.1.1) from my normal network (192.168.0.1) until I changed it to a 192.168.0.x address.

[Audioaficionado]

I don't think I have all those options in my Linksys router. I'll check it later today after I've had some shut eye. I was up all night working at my hospital and we were slammed most of the night.

Note: that temporary configuration of the two routers being connected LAN port to LAN port caused some kind of packet collision (I think) and although it worked last night, we couldn't get any Internet connectivity this morning when I got home. The VoIP phones worked and all the PCs could see each other, but no internet.

Once I put everything back to the original config of Linksys -> Motorola -> cable modem, Internet returned, wireless returned, but no LAN connectivity between Linksys & Motorola LANs as before.

There's a KISS principle involved here and once we've figured it out, we'll all do this :p

.

[Jmtyra]

No, they are on different logical networks.

Could you elaborate for the networking challenged? (aka, me :p)

I ask, because I run two networks at home. A 10.14.1.x network and a 192.168.1.x network, both hosted on a Smoothwall box, and I can see all of the clients on the latter network from any client on the former network.

[Jmtyra]

There's a KISS principle involved here and once we've figured it out, we'll all do this :p.

LOL, nice pic. :thup:

[DaveHCYJ]

I only skimmed all the posts, but I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet: Turn off the firewall/NAT in the Linksys router.

Since you are plugged into the WAN port of the Linksys, it is treating the rest of your network like the Internet and would block any unsolicited incoming traffic if the firewall/NAT/etc. features are turned on.

[Audioaficionado]

I only skimmed all the posts, but I haven't seen anyone suggest this yet: Turn off the firewall/NAT in the Linksys router.

Since you are plugged into the WAN port of the Linksys, it is treating the rest of your network like the Internet and would block any unsolicited incoming traffic if the firewall/NAT/etc. features are turned on.I've been thinking about that, but so far I haven't found that option in the Linksys config setup. I'll look later this afternoon once I've gotten some sleep.

Cya guys later.
.......zzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Audioaficionado]

Going based on the information that you've given us:

192.168.15.x is the subnet that your Motorola's router is giving
192.168.1.x is the subnet that your Linksys router is giving

The reason you can't access the Linksys router with the Motorola router is because they are different subnets. You need to get into the configuration for the Linksys router and change the IP address to 192.168.15.x. Obviously, you will want to pick a number that is not currently in use and (preferably) outside of DHCP range of the Motorola router.

If your wireless isn't working, you probably still have DHCP turned on or you don't have it set as an access point. If you can connect to the wireless, what IP address is it giving? If it isn't in the 192.168.15.x range, it isn't setup right.

I know you can do this with the stock firmware as I ran it for over a year without issues.I tried changing the Linksys to 192.168.15.x, but then it couldn't get the Internet and still couldn't see the other Motorola LAN PCs. I turned off DHCP, did the ipconfig /release & /renew, but then Windows borked the IP addy beyond my ability to fix. Ended up just hitting the reset button on the Linksys to get back into it, did another DHCP R&R and restored the Internet access for the HTPC & PS3.

There's no option on the Linksys for disabling the NAT FW. This is truly a consumer product :rolleyes:
Now that Vonage branded Motorola has tons of controls to adjust and I'm not going to mess with it as it was set up by Vonage for my VoIP account and I'm way too n00b to screw with it.

Will my WRT54GS take the better custom firmware?

[thideras]

You need to find out what version you have and see if it is on the DD-WRT website.

[Audioaficionado]

No Motorola LAN access (3 PCs), but Internet for all Linksys LAN clients (Eee PC, HTPC, PS3).

What other menus do you want me to show?

What fields do you want me to edit/change?

.

[thideras]

I'm looking at a stock configured router now that is working perfectly fine:

In the first screenshot:
Change "Local IP Address" to the same subnet as your other router (192.168.15.x)
Disable "DHCP Server"

In the Advanced Routing, do nothing.

[Audioaficionado]

I'm looking at a stock configured router now that is working perfectly fine:

In the first screenshot:
Change "Local IP Address" to the same subnet as your other router (192.168.15.x)
Disable "DHCP Server"

In the Advanced Routing, do nothing.After I did this, I lost connectivity to the Linksys and the Internet. So I had to ipconfig release/renew the IP addy. Windows without a DHCP server just generates one itself.

I had to reset the Linksys to access it again. Now I'm back to stock with Internet but no LAN as before. I'll reset my wireless once we're done with the greater issues.

.

[thideras]

Do you have both cables plugged into the 1-4 ports? There is a port that is not "grouped" on the back and you do not want to use that at all. As I said, I got to play around with a stock configured router today, which was setup the way I had mine and worked perfectly fine; the DHCP router being an actual firewall, not the wireless point.

[kayson]

In the Advanced Routing, do nothing.

There's actually a setting in there that needs to be changed. Change it from "Gateway" to "Router". If you look in the help box on the right in the advanced routing page, you'll see that it says use router if there is another router on your network.

[Audioaficionado]

I also just changed to 192.168.15.x and lost the internet, but I was still able to get back into the Linksys config page and put it back to 192.168.1.x and regain the Internet.

I tried that gateway -> router trick and got nowhere.

I'll try messing with the cables tomorrow as I have to leave for work tonight :(

[Mr.Guvernment]

didn't read it all, but not sure what is so complex about this or problems:

At work i have 3 linksys WRT54G converted into AP's"


Plug PC into the router into the lan port to configure
Configure the wireless area as well as set the LAN IP static
disable the WAN port / dont assign anything to it
Plug cable from Linksys LAN port into existing network set gateway as gateway router (the one plugged into your modem)
Connect to router via wireless
Done.

[DaveHCYJ]

To me it sounds like this may be the problem:
Do you have both cables plugged into the 1-4 ports? There is a port that is not "grouped" on the back and you do not want to use that at all. As I said, I got to play around with a stock configured router today, which was setup the way I had mine and worked perfectly fine; the DHCP router being an actual firewall, not the wireless point.

something else that might be worth trying is giving one of your computers connected to the Linksys a 192.168.15.x static ip assignment and see if it can reach the internet then. If it can then its just a dhcp problem, which you could ignore by doing all static assignments.

[Audioaficionado]

I'm looking at a stock configured router now that is working perfectly fine:

In the first screenshot:
Change "Local IP Address" to the same subnet as your other router (192.168.15.x)
Disable "DHCP Server"

In the Advanced Routing, do nothing.Alrighty then! :rock:

I can see all the LAN, the Motorola is assigning DHCP & I'm posting from my HTPC :thup:

Next I'll see how my wireless portal fared... Success!

Update: WTH! Now my main rig can't get on the internet. ipconfig /R&R didn't fix it either. All the other PCs & PS3 still have Internet access.

2nd Update: Rebooted my Asus Commando and did another ipconfig /R&R and now it all works :rock: :beer:

:grouphug: Thanx guys.

And thideras, I salute you sir! :salute:

[thideras]

No problem :thup:

[Audioaficionado]

I haven't felt like such a n00b since I was initially learning about Linux.

I'm not an expert on networking by any stretch of the imagination, but at least I can take my training wheels off now LOL :p

[Jmtyra]

Glad you're up and running! Good job thideras! :thup: