questions about water cooling

[cyber mouse45]

Ok, I have some questions about water cooling. As you will see, I know absolutely nothing about it. That’s why I’m asking the masters. I’m sure some of you know that I’m in the process of building a new rig, and I’ve been tossing around a few ideas on how to cool this thing. My plan is to cool it with a bunch of well placed fans, but I’ve always liked the idea of water cooling. Unfortunately every one I’ve talked to about it has said the same thing: DON’T DO IT! It’s way too expensive, too messy, a hassle to set up and just not worth it. Get yourself a big f/hs combo and you’ll be fine. So that’s what I’ve thought for quite some time. Is any of that true? I’d like to know what you guys think, since you’ve done it before and none of my friends have. It kinda makes me wonder if they just say that so I don’t get one. Because if I did, guess who would have the coolest pc. hehe Anyway, would some of you guys be kind enough to tell me how one of these things work, and do they really cost a ton of money?? All I know is that the cpu gets cooled by water somehow. Any help you can give me would be much appreciated.

Oh, and one more thing. I live in VA, and it can get pretty hot here in the summer. We don’t use the air all that much so my room can get, well, HOT!!!:mad: Would I be better off going with water instead of a bunch of fans sucking in FREAKIN hot air??

Thanks!
:D

[Wicked Klown]

Ok I've ran with water cool before. I've used just a waterblock and rad, I've done it with a pelt and now on my Fiancee`s I'm doing Direct Die cooling. Only problem I ever had was when I used the pelt. Condensation fried two MoBo`s and two video cards. If you really want to do it just read up on it and be carefull with what you do. Right now on her`s she gets a temp of 21.7 Load thats with two 120mm Enermax adjustable speed fans.

[deathstar13]

it can be as expensive as u wish and as complicated and as messy as u wish its all upto u.
a great water system can be done for less than $200 easily.
and a great one also can be done for $100 easily.
i think its research and what fits your needs.its not messy either.
quik example.
1.radiator- $10-$15 bucks at a junk yard mabey cheaper
2. pump wal-mart 120 gph $19
3.waterblock-most specially made. is most expensive part usually.$30-$50
4.hoses and fittings. home depot. $15 at most for all u need

thats less than $100 and will work great. i suggest ya hang out in forums and in the cooling section. if u look at the bottom of the page it has like 20 more pages archived. read read read. thats how u save money. u can buy these as kits online also. ive seen em $150-$220 complete.

and ill be honest noone in there right mind in the world besides the people here would ever recomend watercooling. wanna know why? lack of knowledge , plain and simple.

facts.
1.distilled water is non-conductive. it wont fry nothing!
2.water is way more thermally conductive than air
3. its way queiter.

just hang around and read learn and make decisions about it yourself. after a while u will feel brave enough to do things u have never tried. u think 3 months ago i was consider h2o? no way.

[cyber mouse45]

100 bucks? Wow. That’s not all that much considering I was planning to spend about $75 on a swiftech and $15 on earplugs. hehe :D

[deathstar13]

you bet dude! ill never go back to air cooling. i love h2o that much after i did it.
the best way to save money is do the research. find the best parts at the best price. the swiftech is the best hs around. but it dont compare to water. im typing at 28c now.

the more u read and study the ins and outs the less fears u will have. as far as leaks go i set mine up on my kitchen table let it run for a week. not one leak! did have a pump that wanted to stick and not start. but a good whack with a screw driver fixed that :D

[NuebieN]

I may be able to give you an fresh opinion of watercooling since I just finished mine. (well it's working, still wanna tweak some more)

1st thing you should look at is if you have enough room in your case. If you have a full tower, you should be able to make it where everything is in one case. It is still possible with a smaller case, but takes more time to pick a small enough radiator out.

Mine cost about 150 bucks i think.

38 bucks for a geo metro heater core from autozone. ( I heard afterwards that the ford escort is like 18 bucks)
50 bucks w/shipping maze 2 waterblock.
12 for a walmart attwood 300 gph bilge pump.
10 for resevoir materials.
hoses I had.
38 for 2 120mm 12v fans from radioshack.
I got an old at case from a friend to put everything in for free.
Bragging rights - priceless.

I did have a problem running the bilge pump off of the same power supply as the computer due to feedback on the sound. That's when I decided to use another case and ps.

I tell ya man.. It's alot of fun. But I'll warn ya. Getting those temps down is addictive. I allready upgraded my thermal grease to arctic silver 3 just to get a 1c more of a drop. I got tingles when I put ice in the resevior just to see what i could get the temps down to. And now I'm lookin at buying a cheap refrigerator to make a case out of. Then I'll buy an 1800xp and a geforce 4. AHHH!! MUST GO FASTER. MUST HAVE HIGHER 3DMARK SCORES. Now where did I put my prozac.

Have fun man. Keep us updated.

[deathstar13]

no offence nuebien but id never recomend using a bilge pump.
i dont wanna go into the bilge debate but i cant recomend that to someone who is doing this for a first time.
other than that everything else is solid advice.

i hope u dont get upset since i dont agree.

[NuebieN]

yeah I've read the debates before I bought it. And I may agree with you one day. But for 10 bucks plus tax, I don't mind taking the chance of it dieing. And don't say that I'm risking my processor cuz I don't leave it on when I'm not in front of it. And if I was, I could have MBM shut my computer down for me. But like I said, I may agree with you someday. My luck will be it dies right when I need the computer the most, LAN PARTY!!!

And it is probably a good thing to mention that the bilge pump is risky to someone starting there first one.

[cyber mouse45]

Originally posted by NuebieN

1st thing you should look at is if you have enough room in your case. If you have a full tower, you should be able to make it where everything is in one case. It is still possible with a smaller case, but takes more time to pick a small enough radiator out.
I did have a problem running the bilge pump off of the same power supply as the computer due to feedback on the sound. That's when I decided to use another case and ps.

Have fun man. Keep us updated.


One question, and don’t laugh: are you saying that I need to have two cases, one for the pc and one for the cooling, or just one big one? (I know you’re laughing) The case I’m going to use is an Antec SX1040 so it’s pretty big, and if I need two cases, I got three extra ones here that I can use. An Aopen, Dell and Icebox. And thanks for the info guys. :D I'll keep you updated.:cool:

[Inteleron]

just one he means, it doesn't even have to be big, just big ENOUGH (to fit all the fun stuff in) or u can be like me and have your pc look like a gutted fish w/ all the hoses laying out one side of the case and the rad not even tied down :D

what aopen case do you have? the mid tower KF45A will work perfect for just about any basic kit (i love those cases) ;)

[cyber mouse45]

Originally posted by Inteleron

what aopen case do you have? the mid tower KF45A will work perfect for just about any basic kit (i love those cases) ;)

It's a HQ45. Small, but cute.

I’ve been doing some reading on water cooling today, and I’m beginning to see how all this stuff works. I also think that building one of these things would be so cool. Definitely a lot more fun than slapping a fan on there. But I do have a few more questions. Should my water be room temp, or should I try to cool it some way? Should I have a reservoir or not? What’s a bong??

Thanks for your help.
:D :D

[BBigJ]

I'm in the process of putting together a water system for myself. I have two questions. First what is the deal with the bilge pump? What is the alternative, and what are the respective drawbacks. I was just planning on getting a pump from the closest pet store. Also, I have a friend who has access to a machine shop, and I was planning to get him to make me a waterblock. This will obviously save me a lot of bucks and I can engineer it exactly the way I want it. The problem is he thinks that it might not be possible for the appropriate amount of copper to "dissappear" while it would be very easy to get a piece of scrap aluminum of the proper size. How much would I be sacrificing using Al instead of Cu? I'm aware that this means I should also get an aluminum radiator.

J

[cyber mouse45]

Originally posted by BBigJ
How much would I be sacrificing using Al instead of Cu? I'm aware that this means I should also get an aluminum radiator.

J

Are you saying that if you use a aluminum waterblock you need to use an aluminum radiator?? Why can’t you use a copper one?? Does something bad happen when you combine the two metals??:confused: I really don’t know much about this kind of stuff, but I am learning though. :) :)

[UserName]

Aluminum and copper are disimular metals and have a dielectric effect.

If you put a little anti freeze in youl be just fine.

[Patchmaster]

Even with conventional (if I can use that term in this context) water cooling, you're going to be limited by the air temperature in your room. Water has no magical cooling properties; it's just a very efficient way to move heat around. You eventually have to dump that heat someplace. With a conventional water cooling system -- using a radiator -- the heat is going to go into the room. In this case, the absolute best CPU temp you can hope for is room temp -- essentially the same as with air cooling. The benefit is that it's easier to get the CPU close to room temp because water is more efficient than air at moving the heat away from the CPU. The system will also very likely be quieter than an air cooling system with equivalent efficiency.

Water cooling does open up other options though. You could use a bong to get evaporative cooling. You could use a TEC to get the CPU to well below ambient temp. You could chill the cooling water in any number of ways.

Unless you plan on overclocking to a great degree, the advice to just get a big heatsink and fan is probably the best route. If you are going to overclock, then water cooling will give you a lot more options.

[cyber mouse45]

Originally posted by Patchmaster


Unless you plan on overclocking to a great degree, the advice to just get a big heatsink and fan is probably the best route. If you are going to overclock, then water cooling will give you a lot more options.


I’m getting an XP 2000+ and plan to o/c as high as I can. I also would like to have a quite case. Should I go with water??

[Kaese]

TO begin with you are not going very far with that XP2000+....Nothing against th chip at all, but it is almost completely maxed out anyways....people routinely get XP1600's up and past XP2000 clockspeed with very little problems. Wait for the Thoroughbred if you want to enter a new realm of overclocking.

If you are getting nutty and want to string something out, buy a slower chip and watercool it. Then you can have the satisfaction of a higher overclocking percentage and less money spent, instead of spending a small chunk o' money on a higher end chip only to get it to a hundred or two hundred mhz over stock. Plus the bus overspeeding gives a bonus boost that is often forgotten. An XP1600 SYSTEM clocked to XP2000 speeds by altering the FSB and Multiplier will wax the XP2000's rear any day of the week.

Dielectric effect is a pain, but antifreeze will help or putting in a sacrificial anode (zinc) can work also. All boats have zinc anodes, else they would dissolve away in a week or so.... But the entire mess is avoided if you use pure distilled water and add NOTHING to it....for the effect to occur you need to dissimilar metals in an electrolytic solution. Distilled water has virtually no conductivity, therefore the effect will not occur. Well at least it shouldn't unless you buy some really crappy stuff.

As someone stated above, water is not magical stuff. The best you can hope for is a water temp slightly above room temp. You cannot get to room temp or below because then heat transfer would not take place or it would put heat into your system. To get your CPU cooler requires a Peltier and a lot more work and expense....People forget that you honestly need a seperate power supply for the Peltier at around 14 volts....for max efficiency. Above and below that the Peltier (depending on the type) is not doing its best work.

Kaese

[cyber mouse45]

Thanks a lot Kaese! You just gave me a bunch more to think about. (and just when I thought I had it all thought through too)
:p What about if I got an XP1800+? At www.prichwatch.com it’s about 110 bucks cheaper than the 2000+. How well does the 1800+ o/c? I’m so confused right now, I don’t know what to do. :confused: All of you guys have been really helpful, but the question remains. Air or water cooling?
Thanks!!:D

Oh, would it help if I told you everything else I was getting??