View Full Version : Bitcoin
Xymurgy
04-17-11, 11:23 PM
I've been hearing about Bitcoin for a few weeks, and finally put in the effort to research what it's doing. It's essentially a decentralized "bank" where all the distributed clients crunch hashes to verify the "bank's" transactions of Bitcoin currency (BTC), and rewards the client that verifies the transaction with BTC (which in turn can be used for other monetary transactions, requiring further hash verifications).
It's not quite a personal printing press, though. It sounds like the difficulty of verifying hashes scales with the gross output of the clients. So with increasing popularity, "mining" BTC becomes less lucrative. There's probably more benefit in actually using the currency rather than generating it. Nonetheless, I think it's fascinating and want to see what the future holds for the project (especially with the negative press fiat currency and fractional-reserve banking has been receiving hyukhyukhuk).
I'm also curious to see what others' thoughts are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin
http://www.bitcoin.org/
Rezin777
04-23-11, 11:17 AM
I personally believe that Bitcoin can have a greater net benefit on society than the rest of the distributed computing programs combined. This is of course only my opinion.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Politics aside:
There was a thread on the anandtech distributed computing forums posted some time ago when bitcoins were worth very little (.03 USD each iirc). Most of the replies were derogatory. Bitcoin is currently trading at 1.40 USD each. I posted a response (when bitcoins were trading at .80 USD each) suggesting that I wish I had known about it when some of the posters were making such comments. I was accused of "mining" the forums and not much has come from it since.
I do wish I had known about bitcoin earlier. I'm hoping that I'm early enough to continue being profitable processing the transactions. It is extremely competitive. Those with lower electricity costs have the edge.
One person has made custom ASICs to "mine" more efficiently and it has been suggested that is where the future of mining lies.
AMD gpus are the king. 6xxx not being much of an improvement over 5xxx. Down-clocking RAM to save energy and heat is common.
There is a growing community at bitcoin.org and I'm hoping that it continues. Anyway, it's an interesting and fun ride. :)
petteyg359
04-24-11, 09:27 PM
I'm still not sure how to "farm" it. I'd like to run it on multiple servers, but I have no idea whether their output will be combined, or even how "accounts" work. How do I know when I've generated a coin, and then how do I put them all together?
thideras
04-24-11, 09:32 PM
I read the website, but I still fail to see how this generates value. From what I understand, our currency is based off actual objects (metals, etc). I just don't see how this works.
petteyg359
04-24-11, 09:57 PM
I read the website, but I still fail to see how this generates value. From what I understand, our currency is based off actual objects (metals, etc). I just don't see how this works.
Maybe they plan to sell the CPU time eventually. Got some super-heavy-duty calculating to do? Buy your processing power with BitCoin.
whooping_a_panda
04-25-11, 08:34 PM
I read the website, but I still fail to see how this generates value. From what I understand, our currency is based off actual objects (metals, etc). I just don't see how this works.
the dollar hasn't been backed by anything real since the 70s (though it started its weening in the 60s). the US is a fiat currency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money) which basically means a dollar is worth a dollar only because you and i think its worth a dollar.
so this works in the same vain. bitcoins are worth money because people say they are and other people will accept them as such. is it stable as a currency, is another discussion however.
Rezin777
04-26-11, 09:19 PM
Basically a currency was designed from the ground up. It has all the right features that one would want in a currency.
It's durable, bitcoins can't really be destroyed (although if you lose your wallet file, you lose access to the coins that are stored on it, forever).
It's divisible, currently down to eight decimal places.
It's rare, after the 21million coins are "mined" no more will ever be created (no inflation).
It's secure, without going into much detail, you can't really counterfeit a bitcoin.
It's decentralized, there is no central bank that contols the money (again no inflation).
It's easy to exchange, you get someone's bitcoin address and send them as much as you'd like. As soon as the next block is written into the chain (10 minutes), they receive the bitcoins in their bitcoin application.
No charge backs, once the money is sent, it's sent. Someone can't claim they didn't receive their goods and take their money back. This puts the trust in the hands of the users, not some corporation / bank.
Consider it like digital gold minus the industrial uses.
Check out bitcoin.org if you want to know more. Or read the pdf from the creator. http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
The more you read about it, the more you see it's usefulness. It really is better than any form of currency currently in use.
Yes it's new, and that has drawbacks. The economy is small, but it's growing fast. It's volatile, one rich person can buy enough bitcoins to make the price fluctuate. If a major government decides they don't like bitcoin interfering with their control over money, it could be criminalized. I doubt they would be able to shut it down, as the network that secures the block-chain is p2p.
Mining can be done solo, but you are competing against everyone else in the network. If you have enough power, solo might be OK, but there is a lot of variance. Most miners join pools that split the 50 coin reward for finding the next block. They use a score base system that rewards you for how much hashing power you add to the pool. This provides you a steady flow of coins. You run one miner for each GPU that you have. You can have as many GPUs mining as you like. CPU mining is not very efficient.
The coins are currently trading 1.72-1.79 USD each. Yes, people are paying USD for bitcoins right now.
I've been mining for almost a month now and have earned a nice stack of bitcoins for myself.
ive done reasearch for the last hour on this and it still makes no sense to me... how would you collect the bitcoins for physical cash and how can you spend them?
Rezin777
04-27-11, 01:57 PM
ive done reasearch for the last hour on this and it still makes no sense to me... how would you collect the bitcoins for physical cash and how can you spend them?
You can spend them if you find someone selling items for bitcoins. This isn't all that common, as I said it's a new economy. There is a marketplace on the forum where people list stuff they are willing to sell for bitcoins. Obviously getting a major online retail to accept bitcoins would create a huge boom in the economy (and drive up the price of bitcoins in the process).
There are several ways to exchange your bitcoins for cash. One person offers cash through the mail. Another offers paypal payment for bitcoins. And of course there is the marketplace where people buy and sell bitcoins all day long. http://www.mtgox.com/trade/history There are also other ways, through the forum, or on an IRC channel.
i looked into this a few months back too and i've had trouble understanding it also. Basically my understanding is 1 computer = 1 account. To have them work "together" you need to Pool them. You can also Pool with other users, some think this increases your chance of obtaining an actual bitcoin. It seems there are tons of different clients too.
That's as far as i got. It doesn't seem as nice or easy to run as WCG, Boinc, or F@H.
SeeThruHead
05-10-11, 05:59 PM
Not entirely related but bitcoin is mentioned on the hidden wiki
http://thebotnet.com/general-off-topic/49828-how-to-access-the-hidden-wiki/
Also: turn your bitcoins into a virtual visa credit card: https://www.bitcoin2cc.com/
madhatter256
05-17-11, 12:46 PM
Here's my understanding of it....
Where gold and silver have intrinsic value, bitcoin tries to generate intrinsic value by the computing power present in a PC. It creates money when you successfully 'verify' said transaction.
So basically, if you can verify the stuff quickly, you generate money.... and as time passes, the verification will require more computing power.
So, it seems like the 'easy' ones have been verified already, in other words the gold-rush for this has ended just recently and only lasted a short time....
However, it can be used like Paypal, but without the fees or fear of getting your account frozen for stupid reasons.
PolRoger
05-27-11, 10:11 AM
Posted on 4/26/2011...
The coins are currently trading 1.72-1.79 USD each. Yes, people are paying USD for bitcoins right now.
I've been mining for almost a month now and have earned a nice stack of bitcoins for myself.
I was checking the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange today and they are now trading at: Last Price: 8.7 High: 8.92 Low: 8.35
Your stack of bitcoins seems to have appreciated nicely over ~ a month!
I think perhaps that the bitcoin mining heydays may have already passed by.
burningcpu
06-01-11, 12:05 PM
Yup, and the people that got on early are the new 'landed elite.'
I'm not investing in this ponzi scheme
Rezin777
06-07-11, 10:42 PM
Posted on 4/26/2011...
I was checking the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange today and they are now trading at: Last Price: 8.7 High: 8.92 Low: 8.35
Your stack of bitcoins seems to have appreciated nicely over ~ a month!
I think perhaps that the bitcoin mining heydays may have already passed by.
If you are immediately converting your Bitcoins to other currencies at the end of each day, mining today is more profitable than it was when I started.
Rezin777
06-07-11, 10:46 PM
I'm not investing in this ponzi scheme
I certainly would suggest that you do not invest as Bitcoin is extremely high risk, but...
I don't understand how a voluntary, p2p, decentralized, open source, digital currency project that has a complete and total history of all transactions and is openly traded on public exchanges could possibly be misconstrued as a ponzi scheme. Anyone who does is either ignorant or dishonest (perhaps both). No offense intended.
I know of 3 people selling coins for USD daily.. They are fetching 25 bucks. Word of advice, if you have a 5870 or a 5970 even and you want to unload it for some serious money, do it now. These are the best mining hardware out there.
I read the website, but I still fail to see how this generates value. From what I understand, our currency is based off actual objects (metals, etc). I just don't see how this works.
You are mistaken. The US$ is not back by anything anymore. It was at one point backed by gold via a gold standard. These bitcoins are just as valuable as US$.
*Update* for those of you who own amd 5xxx cards, I just sold my 2 5870s for 525.00! Unload them sooner than later to the bitcoiners if you want some cash out of them! :)
madhatter256
06-09-11, 01:00 PM
Suckers....
Rezin777
06-10-11, 09:07 AM
*Update* for those of you who own amd 5xxx cards, I just sold my 2 5870s for 525.00! Unload them sooner than later to the bitcoiners if you want some cash out of them! :)
Suckers....
Hehe, while that is quite a lot for a 5870, it's relative. If nothing else changes, and the person you sold them to are adding them to an already existing computer, those cards will pay for themselves in 14 days and then start making profit.
Of course, things will change. The difficulty will change. And the exchange rate will most likely change. But I bet the person who bought those cards does just fine, even paying such a large amount, and is soon making money off of his purchase.
I'm happy I was buying 5870s for less than $175. I guess I was ahead of the mad rush. :bday:
Yeah I was about to sell those cards 2 months ago at 180 a pop. Good thing I held on for a little while longer! I have 3 on ebay I am watching as market indicators. They all have multiple bids, and are at 300+ dollars. I will be buying and selling a couple more I think if the demand is still there! I'm quite happy with my 6970 though for gaming. :)
hajalie24
06-10-11, 10:17 PM
I feel bad for selling my 5970 for $580 on ebay a month ago. I could of either used it for mining or just sold it for over $900 :(
Man 580 bucks is still awesome! I have seen 2 go for 700 in the last week.. But not 900 yet..
hajalie24
06-11-11, 09:08 PM
Search completed listings on ebay. Oh well, I ended up getting $520 after fees, which is still a lot more than I bought it for and got 2 6950's for $400 (after I return one from ebay).
I'm mainly mad that I never found out about this earlier. I should of realized when I noticed the price increase from a month before. I would have never sold the 5970 in the first place. Now my 2 6950's are mining but it doesn't look too profitable.
Rezin777
06-12-11, 05:22 PM
Now my 2 6950's are mining but it doesn't look too profitable.
Shader unlocked 6950s? Those are great for mining. If you are only interested in converting Bitcoins to USD, they should easily net you a daily profit well above the energy costs to run them.
hajalie24
06-12-11, 10:33 PM
One's unlocked, the other isn't. Getting ~355 and ~325 Mhash's at 880mhz on the core. It just seems like I could of made so much more with the 5970 I had lol.
Chihlidog
06-12-11, 11:29 PM
One's unlocked, the other isn't. Getting ~355 and ~325 Mhash's at 880mhz on the core. It just seems like I could of made so much more with the 5970 I had lol.
You'll make a good amount with that assuming prices stay as they are. The difficulty is going p sometime this week, but you will still profit by hundreds every month (and I mean 3-400) so long as prices dont completely tank. Not a bad deal for doing nothing.
ghost_recon88
06-14-11, 09:00 AM
I'm looking at jumping into this. I'll have a unlocked HD 6950 + 5870 grinding away at it. Hoping for a combined 860ish Mhash/s. Is there any good way to run it in Winders, or should I just use Ubuntu?
I had tried using guiminer.exe along with bitcoin.exe -server (this combo allows for solo mining).
I just set it all up to see what how my cards performed...
madhatter256
06-14-11, 12:57 PM
I tried the same thing recently. Couldn't get it to work. Did you put bitcoin.exe -f somewhere? If so, wehre?
Rezin777
06-14-11, 01:18 PM
I had tried using guiminer.exe along with bitcoin.exe -server (this combo allows for solo mining).
I just set it all up to see what how my cards performed...
I tried the same thing recently. Couldn't get it to work. Did you put bitcoin.exe -f somewhere? If so, wehre?
There are a few solo mining guides floating around the net.
Although, unless you have 5 or more Ghashs/s, you will probably want to mine with a pool. At this point, without that kind of power, it will take to so long to find a block solo that it simply isn't worth it. The difficulty will go up before you find a block and then it will be even harder to find a block. And so on.
Pooled mining is easier to set up anyway. I recommend the pheonix miner if you are using AMD GPUs.
Yes I agree. I was simply trying it out so that I had some #'s to use when selling the cards! :P I believe the one person I know with a substantial amount of coins is in a pool. He also has 3 5970s, 4 5850s, and now my 2 5870s running 24/7 though! :O
I tried the same thing recently. Couldn't get it to work. Did you put bitcoin.exe -f somewhere? If so, wehre?
For Solo mining:
I installed bitcoin to its default location... Next you choose a username and password for yourself. You then edit a file named 'poclbn' and add your selected name and password. Fire up bitcoin.exe with the parameter -server, then fire up guiminer.exe and start mining!
Again I just set it up to test my cards... There are ways to make your cards run a lot more efficient, and yes pools are the way to go.
ghost_recon88
06-15-11, 03:21 PM
Just picked up a HD 5850, last card I'm buying for this. It was an open box, so if the market collapses I hopefully can sell it for what I paid for it. Really hoping this all pays off :p
http://www.pcworld.com/article/230377/worlds_first_virtual_heist_bitcoin_user_loses_5000 00.html
Insane if true. :O
ghost_recon88
06-16-11, 02:03 PM
http://www.pcworld.com/article/230377/worlds_first_virtual_heist_bitcoin_user_loses_5000 00.html
Insane if true. :O
When getting literally-free money, why not cash out when it's a guaranteed thing. If I $1k worth, I would easily cash out. Keeping that much virtual currency seems to just be asking for trouble.
yeah.. guiminer is easy to set up. and you can either solo mine, or easily pool mine
i've got the wrong brand of card.. nvidia 460.. only gets 50-60mhs.. So, pools are it for me, only gotten 2.5 coins in the last month.. which at current exchange (last night) was around 43 dollars... Wish I'd gone ATI.
madhatter256
06-16-11, 06:54 PM
When getting literally-free money, why not cash out when it's a guaranteed thing. If I $1k worth, I would easily cash out. Keeping that much virtual currency seems to just be asking for trouble.
If he cashed that amount out, the market would plunge....
If he cashed that amount out, the market would plunge....
$500k in a $2b a day market won't "Plunge" it.. it'll be a blip.. but less than the drop last week from a $25 high to around $14.. and looking at the daily spread 17-20 doesn't seem out of the question on a normal day..
it's a volatile market..
I believe it was less than 90 days ago they were around $6 each..
Also.. he could set up "Dark Pool" trades.. which are essentially off the books trades that don't appear on the open market.
Rezin777
06-16-11, 11:00 PM
When getting literally-free money, why not cash out when it's a guaranteed thing. If I $1k worth, I would easily cash out. Keeping that much virtual currency seems to just be asking for trouble.
Some people aren't in it for how much fiat currency they can acquire, they are in it because they feel Bitcoin is a better alternative for the future.
Rezin777
06-16-11, 11:03 PM
If he cashed that amount out, the market would plunge....
The largest exchange did 58k BTC volume in the last 24 hours and it was a very slow day.
A week ago there were multiple consecutive days with over 100k BTC exchanged.
madhatter256
06-17-11, 08:07 AM
Hedge funds are propping up against bit coin... the same kind that propped up when people betted against the sub-prime mortgage securities....
Heard it completely wrong....
Although I wouldn't be surprised if they actually were creating hedge funds against bitcoins success...
ghost_recon88
06-20-11, 10:24 AM
Market isn't looking too good today, only $11 per coin :(
There some sort of a compromise earlier this weekend I believe..
https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
looks like there will be some issues to work out for bitcoiners..
Bobnova
06-20-11, 10:33 AM
Yeah mtgox had two issues, one was they lost their database, another was something involving someone selling bitcoins that I'm not really clear on, and mtgox reversed everybodies transactions. Suddenly bitcoin looked rather less perfect.
Janus67
06-20-11, 01:38 PM
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21942
some more insight into the breach
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21942
some more insight into the breach
Kinda sucks....:rain:
I had planned on stuffing my MSI K9A2 with 5830s for a mining rig....
MT gox had a breach.. the "rollback" only affects trades on that exchange..
the way MTGox worked was that you would transfer the coins from your wallet to an MTGOX account, essentially giving MTgox your coins.. mt gox would execute trades on their system, moving coins around internally, unless someone made a withdrawal (sending bitcoins to their wallet, or to another persons wallet).. any withdrawals are not subject to a rollback, since there's no way to get them back. It's unclear whether MTGox has A> Cash funds to reimburse customers for any losses, or B> bitcoin reserves to restore lost balances..
It's also unclear as to how the breach occured, MTGox has affirmed that their security wasn't breached, but instead indicates that the system of an auditor was breached, resulting in the loss of their entire database with username/email/and hashed password being compromised.
With MTGox being the largest of the exchanges, the huge drop in price on that market also affected traders on other markets as traders began to panic and sell.
It's clear that some safety triggers need to be set up on the exchanges, to prevent panic driven volatility.
MTgox has expressed an intention to reopen their market at 17.50, which was where the price was before the drop.
Tradehill currently is trading at 13.95. up from a 9.95 low.
If someone had been lucky/brave enough to buy when it was dropping like a rock (due to people trying to extract the compromised funds, and the panic ensuing) they could sell today (72 hours later) at almost at 50% roi.
It's unstable, volatile market, risky for speculation, and likely overvalued right now. it'd probably not be a terrible idea to run those 5830s, while the price is high, and sell all your proceeds. even leaving cash funds in the exchange, to buy coins when there's a price drop.
It's unstable, volatile market, risky for speculation, and likely overvalued right now. it'd probably not be a terrible idea to run those 5830s, while the price is high, and sell all your proceeds. even leaving cash funds in the exchange, to buy coins when there's a price drop.
Looks like newegg is out of stock...and Im not surprised after the research I did yesterday.
Also, those of you that are a still a bit lost on the whole bitcoin thing and how it works. This Security Now Podcast did a nice job of explaining it to me...
Security Now 287: BitCoin CryptoCurrency (http://twit.tv/sn287)
Aye angry, newegg and amazon are oos.. however, There's some nice cards in the classies here.. one person has a pair of 6870s for 300, which is a steal.
madhatter256
06-20-11, 10:21 PM
Good time to buy and get a quick return and then dump it for a tidy profit.
But why when you can now download the mtgox info now and take other people's stuff...
madhatter, because mtgox is offline, and when it comes up will require new passwords, so the old password hashes will no long be correct.. also the cleartext password wasn't compromised, only the salted hash. They used individually salted hashes instead of a sitewide salt, which means that brute forcing is more difficult, because each individual password would require it's own rainbow table.
Plus, stealing is bad.
ghost_recon88
06-21-11, 10:04 AM
Got Ubuntu installed last night, cant figure out how to get my wireless driver so I'm missing out on a whole 24 hours of mining since I can't get back to it until I get home from work.
madhatter256
06-21-11, 09:01 PM
I was just being sarcastic :P
Weird, I tried to set this up today for the heck of it. I couldnt connect to the server. Im no good with this kind of stuff :(
Which OS is best for a mining rig? I have another copy of Win7 Home I could use, or would Linux be best?
ghost_recon88
06-22-11, 07:24 AM
Which OS is best for a mining rig? I have another copy of Win7 Home I could use, or would Linux be best?
Linux. Spent 3 hours last night following this guide (http://foreverrising.wordpress.com/2011/04/16/bitcoin-mining-and-ubuntu-10-10-ati-radeon-5xxx/). Get to the end and it doesn't work, throws up some error :mad: By that point too tired and annoyed to debug it, once I get home I'll post up a screenshot.
For me to set it up and mine solo it took about.. 30 minutes.. That included a crash course in what exactly I was doing and why lol..
Complete procedure for windows solo mining:
Download and install Bitcoin.exe
*EDIT*
locate bitcoin.conf file
-if it is not in the directory that it is supposed to be in, create it
add following lines:
rpcuser=<YOUR_CHOSEN_NAME>
rpcpassword=<YOUR_CHOSEN_PASSWORD>
Download guiminer.exe
Add a shortcut for Bitcoin.exe and add '-server' without quotes for its startup command
Fire up Bitcoin
Fire up guiminer, select Solo mining, enter the user and password you added to the pocblm file, select your card and mine..
It will take BitCoin a little bit of time to update its block info.. Once that is done guiminer will just start mining.
Solo mining is definitely getting to be not worth it in the end. Unless you have 15 or so 5970s lying around! :)
I was still asleep when I wrote this apparently :( sorry for the confusion.
For me to set it up and mine solo it took about.. 30 minutes.. That included a crash course in what exactly I was doing and why lol..
Complete procedure for windows solo mining:
Download and install Bitcoin.exe
*EDIT*
locate bitcoin.conf file
-if it is not in the directory that it is supposed to be in, create it
add following lines:
rpcuser=<YOUR_CHOSEN_NAME>
rpcpassword=<YOUR_CHOSEN_PASSWORD>
Download guiminer.exe
Add a shortcut for Bitcoin.exe and add '-server' without quotes for its startup command
Fire up Bitcoin
Fire up guiminer, select Solo mining, enter the user and password you added to the pocblm file, select your card and mine..
It will take BitCoin a little bit of time to update its block info.. Once that is done guiminer will just start mining.
Solo mining is definitely getting to be not worth it in the end. Unless you have 15 or so 5970s lying around! :)
I was still asleep when I wrote this apparently :( sorry for the confusion.
With GUIMiner there's a simpler method for starting your bitcoin client in server mode.. After you've created your configuration for bitcoin.
You can use the GUIMiner fronted to launch bitcoin in the server configuration.. it still takes a while to get your blockchain data up to date..
you can skip that part if you intend to farm as part of a pool.
ghost_recon88
06-22-11, 10:52 PM
Got my 5870 + 6950 (unlocked to full shaders) up and running tonight in Win 7 x64, using the Phoenix client in guiminer I'm currently getting a combined 730 hash with nothing overclocked, just by using switches. I found the easy way to do it in windows without dummy plugs, is to just plug one card into your monitor via DVI, and the 2nd in via HDMI (or VGA if you don't have HDMI). That way both cards think they have different monitors attached, and no need for plugs ;)
730Megahash? nice
upclocking the processor, and downclocking memory seems to be the recommended tweaking method. but, your 2 cards are getting about 12x the hashes I get with my 460 clocked to the max.
Only issue i've heard with those ATI cards is poor cooling on the VRMs.
ghost_recon88
06-23-11, 09:08 PM
730Megahash? nice
upclocking the processor, and downclocking memory seems to be the recommended tweaking method. but, your 2 cards are getting about 12x the hashes I get with my 460 clocked to the max.
Only issue i've heard with those ATI cards is poor cooling on the VRMs.
Yea I'm gonna use Afterburner to get the RAM down to around 500MHz on each card. I've still got a HD 5850 to get online, but I'm waiting for a heatsink and PSU to arrive for that setup. Still though, difficulty is going up and the price of coins is only hovering around $15 :eh?:
madhatter256
06-24-11, 01:04 PM
730Megahash? nice
upclocking the processor, and downclocking memory seems to be the recommended tweaking method. but, your 2 cards are getting about 12x the hashes I get with my 460 clocked to the max.
Only issue i've heard with those ATI cards is poor cooling on the VRMs.
I think BitCoin is the only DC project that works great on ATI/AMD cards compared to nVidias.... That's why everyone is after them...
Couple of questions...
If you have multiple ATI card, do they have to be in crossfire?
Can you mix 6xxx and 5xxx series cards in the same system?
Couple of questions...
If you have multiple ATI card, do they have to be in crossfire?
Can you mix 6xxx and 5xxx series cards in the same system?
you'd want to run them individually, and I don't believe there's any reason you can't mix generations of cards, as long as they all use the same catalyst drivers.
Ive just seen a PC store here that accepts Bitcoins as a form of payment lol. Up to R2000 (+- $266). Now all I gotta do is get my pc set up. :) http://www.landmarkpc.co.za/store/
ChanceCoats123
06-25-11, 01:40 PM
Very cool! I know there were already a few places that accepted BTC, but more and more places means BTC is taking a strong foothold in the world-wide currency department. ;)
nightelph
06-25-11, 03:01 PM
I looked into this a week ago, tried setting up the bitcoin client and some other peice of software to 'mine' solo. I could never get the software to work and lost interest.
There's also a Howard Johnson Hotel near Disney in Orlando that accepts Bitcoin.
ChanceCoats123
06-25-11, 03:25 PM
I looked into this a week ago, tried setting up the bitcoin client and some other peice of software to 'mine' solo. I could never get the software to work and lost interest.
When I was mining, I was using the pool mining system. It's a bit easier for me since I only had one card. If I had more cards, then I might have mined solo. :shrug: The pools are pretty easy to get running, IMO.
JonSimonzi
06-26-11, 11:23 PM
I looked into this a week ago, tried setting up the bitcoin client and some other peice of software to 'mine' solo. I could never get the software to work and lost interest.
Same.
ghost_recon88
07-06-11, 01:01 PM
For those interested in joining an overclocking based guild, Gomeler over at XS has set one up and should be launching it for the public here pretty soon. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?272337-Which-Mining-Pool&p=4898480&viewfull=1#post4898480
hajalie24
07-10-11, 06:25 PM
I killed 2 GPU's with bitcoin :(
First time was my fault, sort of. I overclocked while guiminer was running, something I did already and was fine. Then, last week I just used the -f0 command and went to download something when my fans went all the way up and a couple seconds later my displays shut off. I think one of those damn video pop ups is what killed it. I haven't mined since, but now the temptation is coming to me.
I've been reading about bitcoins on zee interwebs. I've been thinking about getting into it, but I'm not sure what the best way is to get started!
I've had a look on Google, and there seem to be many different ways of going about it. I'd like to be able to use my hardware to generate bitcoins instead of paying for them with real money. I've already got the bitcoin app which I've tried to use but I don't know what to do with it.
What's the quickest way to get into bitcoin mining?
Janus67
07-13-11, 07:42 AM
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=674572
We have a thread dedicated to it here.
A few bookmarks that I made when I tried it for a day.
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9430.0
http://www.newslobster.com/random/how-to-get-started-using-your-gpu-to-mine-for-bitcoins-on-windows
mbentley
07-13-11, 02:29 PM
merged threads
hajalie24
07-13-11, 07:00 PM
I've been reading about bitcoins on zee interwebs. I've been thinking about getting into it, but I'm not sure what the best way is to get started!
I've had a look on Google, and there seem to be many different ways of going about it. I'd like to be able to use my hardware to generate bitcoins instead of paying for them with real money. I've already got the bitcoin app which I've tried to use but I don't know what to do with it.
What's the quickest way to get into bitcoin mining?
guiminer. Join one of the popular pools (slush's or btcguild probably) and start mining.
I had a bit of trouble getting it all setup but this is the way I did it and it seems to work fine https://deepbit.net/
xsuperbgx
07-13-11, 09:53 PM
How many people here are running this? Maybe everyone could post their mhash and hardware.
I am running a 5870 now for about 400 mhash.
I have a 5770 on the way. I also have another 5870 but the fan is dead. I am trying to get the previous owner to do an RMA for me or I will put a water block on it.
madhatter256
07-14-11, 08:17 AM
Good read on bitcoin mining
http://pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Bitcoin-Currency-and-GPU-Mining-Performance-Comparison
GUIMiner says I'm getting about 340 Mhash/s with my unlocked 69(70) at 925MHz core. It seems a bit low for what it is.
Bobnova
07-14-11, 11:28 PM
What core and flags are you running? They make a big difference.
madhatter256
07-15-11, 01:03 PM
There's a page at the bitcoin wiki that shows the mhash/s for each AMD card and what flags were used for each score.
xsuperbgx
07-15-11, 02:01 PM
Does anyone have thoughts on bitcoin as a currency? Will it work out in the longer term? Or do you earn it and cash out?
What core and flags are you running? They make a big difference.
I'm not sure.
madhatter256
07-15-11, 07:36 PM
Does anyone have thoughts on bitcoin as a currency? Will it work out in the longer term? Or do you earn it and cash out?
It might catch on. I don't know any of the major retailers, or any well-known establishment using it.
Right now though it is at its early stages in life, so its only for quick return on investments until enough people have mined enough coins to not make it profitable anymore...
What's the easiest way to get the money paid into my bank account?
Bobnova
07-16-11, 11:42 AM
Sell the coins on tradehill, then cash out via Dwolla.
That's what I'm doing at least.
As a future currency... Maybe. If Chase or someone steps in and starts acting as a trusted third party to enable instant transactions (instead of having to wait 5-20 minutes), that would go a loooong way towards making it succeed.
As it stands, I don't see it becoming anything but a fringe currency.
TimoneX
07-19-11, 05:48 PM
Chase...trusted LOL
I believe there's a Howard Johnson in Florida that's accepting bitcoins as payment. A small smattering of other companies are beginning to see it is an alternative, but cashing out would probably be safest at this point.
Bobnova
07-19-11, 06:35 PM
Most people trust chase more than they trust a random person. Whether they should or not is another story.
Personally I think they should all trust me and send me all their money :D
TimoneX
07-19-11, 11:33 PM
I don't even know you and I already trust you more than Chase...or any other bank(er) for that matter.
PS. I'm not sending you all my money.
madhatter256
07-20-11, 01:53 PM
Matress Bank is best bank.
Keeping money safe since 1929....
ChanceCoats123
07-20-11, 06:56 PM
Matress Bank is best bank.
Keeping money safe (from everything but fires) since 1929....
Lemme fix this: ^^^
madhatter256
07-20-11, 08:44 PM
Lemme fix this: ^^^
Not a bed made in the 50s covered in asbestos lol
I just setup GUIMiner with -v -w128 flags and overclocked the 69(70) GPU core to 925MHz @ 1.2V with the CCC power control setting to +20% and I'm getting around 405Mhash/s. Can't complain about that.
Coreyoliseffect
07-25-11, 03:47 PM
this almost seems to good to be true. I have been reading on this for about an hour now and I understand the idea but not the how. If anyone has any info or a guide/website that they got started on let me know and I want to read up on this. It sounds like a good way to turn some money. :eh?:
this almost seems to good to be true. I have been reading on this for about an hour now and I understand the idea but not the how. If anyone has any info or a guide/website that they got started on let me know and I want to read up on this. It sounds like a good way to turn some money. :eh?:
Don't bother mining with an nvidia card - you're wasting your time. You need a high end 5 or 6 series AMD GPU to make it worthwhile, otherwise your electricity costs will exceed any possible gains you may get.
Go to https://deepbit.net/ then download "poclbm-GUI miner" from the deepbit site.
Then download the Bitcoin app from bitcoin.com. After you have installed Bitcoin then you should see your bitcoin address. Copy this address into your deepbit account and change the "minimum value for automatic payment" to 1.
Click this link https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison and look up your video card. Put the "flags" for your video card into GUIMiner. This step isn't essential, but you will get an increase in your mining rate if you do so. Start mining!
Bobnova
07-25-11, 06:50 PM
It really does work, bizarrely enough.
If you have a 5xxx or 6xxx GPU it is absolutely worth firing it up.
It appears to be worth buying 5xxx/6xxx gpus as well, but there's a nervous time between buying them and them being paid off where you can lose money if the whole bitcoin thing eats it.
Devil_Dog
07-25-11, 07:12 PM
I've been following the bitcoin thing for a while now. For some reason I just can't bring myself to doing it. I have 3 5870's running but I just for some reason have not done it.
Coreyoliseffect
07-25-11, 08:11 PM
Well the good news is that is actually my old rig. I have a 6950 in my new rig. thanks for posting the guide.
Well the good news is that is actually my old rig. I have a 6950 in my new rig. thanks for posting the guide.
Overclock your GPU core as well. There are no gains to be had from overclocking your GPU memory, when it comes to mining. Increase your power control settings to +20% in CCC.
Overclocking your CPU has no effect on performance for GPU mining so I set mine back to stock clocks in order to save electricity.
Sell the coins on tradehill, then cash out via Dwolla.
That's what I'm doing at least.
As a future currency... Maybe. If Chase or someone steps in and starts acting as a trusted third party to enable instant transactions (instead of having to wait 5-20 minutes), that would go a loooong way towards making it succeed.
As it stands, I don't see it becoming anything but a fringe currency.
I can't sign up to Dwolla because it asks me which USA state I live in and I don't live in the USA and I don't have a US bank account. So how do I get cash paid to my bank account?
Bobnova
07-25-11, 11:14 PM
That's one to ask the Tradehill or MtGox folks, I have no idea, sorry :(
Coreyoliseffect
07-26-11, 01:36 AM
Thanks Smoke. I think that I have started mining.
Do we have a pool or anything like that?
Bobnova
07-26-11, 09:10 AM
OCF doesn't, I like the Eligius pool personally, it and BTCGuild are my favorites.
I'd start with btcguild.
Coreyoliseffect
07-26-11, 12:54 PM
I can not figure out how to connect to save my life. I put in the username and password for the worker and it returns an error saying connection error under the speed column in the summary.
madhatter256
07-26-11, 01:52 PM
Don't you have to create an account with the minint pool's site for them to recognize your GUI Miner (where you put in your name and password)...
Coreyoliseffect
07-26-11, 02:00 PM
Don't you have to create an account with the minint pool's site for them to recognize your GUI Miner (where you put in your name and password)...
I created an account on the BTCGuild site and created a worker. I thought that was the info that I was supposed to enter. :confused:
EDIT: I read what it said on the GUI Mining Application site and it doesn't seem that I need to create a account anywhere else. It says to just register on the pool's site and enter that info.
Bobnova
07-26-11, 03:01 PM
Create an account at btcguild, lets say you used "Corey".
Now create a miner at BTC guild on that account, lets call it "home".
To connect, you tell your mining software (whatever it is) to connect to "Corey_home" at BTCGuild.com, with whatever password you gave the miner.
How do I get money paid into my NZ bank account from Bitcoin? I gave just over 1 bitcoin to TradeHill, then I found out they want $US45 as a fee. I'm not prepared to let them rip me off like that.
I'm just about to give up on the whole Bitcoin thing because I can generate Bitcoins easily enough, but I can't get any money from selling them.
Bobnova
07-26-11, 09:26 PM
If you know someone in the USA you can arrange things with them so that you send them the bitcoin(s) and they send you money via paypal.
It takes trust, as paypal transactions are easily reversed, leaving the USA person with both the bitcoins and the money.
Coreyoliseffect
07-26-11, 10:30 PM
Create an account at btcguild, lets say you used "Corey".
Now create a miner at BTC guild on that account, lets call it "home".
To connect, you tell your mining software (whatever it is) to connect to "Corey_home" at BTCGuild.com, with whatever password you gave the miner.
Don't know what it was but I had to create a new miner. I guess I had changed one of the settings on the other one. Looks like it is working now. :attn:
EDIT: Looks like it has something to do with the "Extra flags" that I had set. Gonna have to read up on that a bit more.
hajalie24
07-27-11, 02:32 PM
How do I get money paid into my NZ bank account from Bitcoin? I gave just over 1 bitcoin to TradeHill, then I found out they want $US45 as a fee. I'm not prepared to let them rip me off like that.
I'm just about to give up on the whole Bitcoin thing because I can generate Bitcoins easily enough, but I can't get any money from selling them.
If you have paypal you can use virwox.com. Convert the BTC to SLL, then SLL to whatever currency you want.
josephholsten
08-07-11, 01:35 AM
I'm honestly surprised at how few overclockers are mining bitcoin. Are there any folks here that are having too hard of a time getting up and running? I'd assume that people didn't believe in bitcoin as a real currency, but why aren't they mining and converting to cash?
Is there anything I can do to help folks start mining?
[Full disclosure: I help run http://bitp.it, but it's zero-fee so I don't make any money with it.]
xsuperbgx
08-07-11, 08:24 AM
If you want to see more people interested you should buy a million btc and get the price back up.
:chair:
Bobnova
08-07-11, 09:26 AM
Despite all the evidence to the contrary it still looks like a scam.
Plus the price is tanking, the amount of time required to pay off GPUs is staggering at this point.
josephholsten
08-07-11, 04:58 PM
Plus the price is tanking, the amount of time required to pay off GPUs is staggering at this point.
Wow: http://bitminer.info/
I guess we'll either need a bump in exchange rate or the difficulty's going to drop soon.
Despite all the evidence to the contrary it still looks like a scam.
Plus the price is tanking, the amount of time required to pay off GPUs is staggering at this point.
This was triggered partially by a loss in consumer confidence and the huge debt crisis in the USA. What then occured was "panic selling", people got scared, and started selling their BTC cheaply because they just wanted to cash out NOW!
This had the effect of causing the markets to become flooded with BTC, which in turn dropped the prices further. Now that BTC have lost so much of their value, they are at the point where people are starting to buy BTC for a cheap price. This should eventually push the prices back up again as more and more people regain confidence in the BTC economy.
It's costing me about $US7 of electricity to mine each BTC - it's almost not worth it at this stage but I'm going to keep on mining! (I just bought a 5970 and a 5850 for mining).
Coreyoliseffect
08-07-11, 08:17 PM
I just consider a hobby at this point. I don't think it was ever meant as a means of profit.
I just consider a hobby at this point. I don't think it was ever meant as a means of profit.
A few months ago it took something like 12 days to pay off a 5850 if it was being used to mine 24/7. That's a pretty good return.
But then :censored::censored::censored::censored: hit the fan. I'm sure that the BTC value will increase in a few weeks.
ghost_recon88
08-08-11, 04:00 PM
Real tempted to unload about 3 of my cards that are mining at this point, don't see any real reason to being generating bitcoins quickly when the market is like this... :(
Real tempted to unload about 3 of my cards that are mining at this point, don't see any real reason to being generating bitcoins quickly when the market is like this... :(
And I just bought a 5970 and a 5850 2 days ago :(
jstutman
08-08-11, 04:47 PM
Been running deepbit on a 5850 for about 4 days. 0.76168504 BTC as of now.
Average BTC is like $7.50 (I probably spend that on electricity)
Im currently using Pay per share.
ghost_recon88
08-08-11, 08:26 PM
Been running deepbit on a 5850 for about 4 days. 0.76168504 BTC as of now.
Average BTC is like $7.50 (I probably spend that on electricity)
Im currently using Pay per share.
What flags are you using, whats your hash rate, and what is your core speed?
jstutman
08-08-11, 08:47 PM
What flags are you using, whats your hash rate, and what is your core speed?
VECTORS AGGRESSION=13 WORKSIZE=256 BFI_INT FASTLOOP=false
320 MH/s
850 MHz is my core speed.
VECTORS AGGRESSION=13 WORKSIZE=256 BFI_INT FASTLOOP=false
320 MH/s
850 MHz is my core speed.
Try running -v -w128 as your flags and you should get a significant performance increase.
jstutman
08-10-11, 05:19 PM
Try running -v -w128 as your flags and you should get a significant performance increase.
in addition to what I already have?
Bobnova
08-10-11, 08:56 PM
Yup. Add that to the end.
Should perk it right up.
Try aggression at 11 as well, my 5870 and 5830s like 11 better than 13.
in addition to what I already have?
I was going to suggest that you get rid of any existing flags and use what I suggested. It might pay to copy and paste your current flags into a .txt document just in case my suggestion doesn't work for you.
Janus67
08-17-11, 07:46 PM
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/08/symantec-spots-malware-that-uses-your-gpu-to-mine-bitcoins.ars?
Just saw that today
Bobnova
08-17-11, 11:37 PM
Been a long time coming, CPU mining malware has been around for quite a while now, makes botnet operators a fair amount of cash, too.
I think more people are going to notice that their GPU fan is screaming at them though.
Been a long time coming, CPU mining malware has been around for quite a while now, makes botnet operators a fair amount of cash, too.
I think more people are going to notice that their GPU fan is screaming at them though.
With all 3 of my AMD cards, when the fan is set to auto it just overheats and starts throttling instead of increasing the fan speed enough for me to notice the extra noise.
That's why I always set a fixed fan speed or a custom fan profile.
Bobnova
08-18-11, 01:04 AM
That's strange indeed, someone screwed up when they set up the AUTO fan profile then. People these days!
Mine aren't subtle.
My 6970 once got up to 103°C with the fan set to auto. I've always set a custom fan profile ever since so it doesn't go above 80°C. The 5850 and 5970 both go up to about 92°C and then they start throttling.
ghost_recon88
08-18-11, 10:01 AM
Have all my fans manually cranked to 100% through CCC. 5870 runs about 87c at 950 core, 6950 flashed to 6970 runs 85c at 940 core, and 5770 at 950 cores runs 50c. All on stock volts.
Janus67
10-21-11, 10:14 AM
Couple month bump:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/10/bitcoin-implodes-down-more-than-90-percent-from-june-peak.ars
Bitcoin, the world's first peer-to-peer digital currency, fell below $3 on Monday. That represents a 90 percent fall since the currency hit its peak in early June.
Supporters argue that Bitcoin has fundamental advantages over conventional currencies. The system is designed to transfer funds without a central authority, freeing Bitcoin users from bank fees and government regulations. The Bitcoin protocol offers robust anonymity, and the protocol guarantees that there will never be more than 21 million Bitcoins in existence, which supporters have argued would give the currency a stable value.
Unfortunately, the currency's value hasn't proven stable in practice. Several waves of media coverage between April and June pushed the currency's value up from less than $1 to more than $30. Soon after it reached a peak, the currency had a series of PR disasters. One Bitcoin user claimed that a half-million dollars worth of Bitcoins were stolen from his PC; he may have fallen victim to Bitcoin-stealing malware. A few days later, the most popular Bitcoin exchange was hacked, forcing a multiday suspension of trading and generating another wave of bad press.
Trading resumed in late June at around $17, and the currency's value has been steadily declining ever since. In August, one of the most popular Bitcoin "banks" claimed it had been hacked, and had lost hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Bitcoins, triggering a fall in value to under $7. Bitcoin fell below $5 in September, and it is now worth less than $3.
So is Bitcoin doomed? The value of Bitcoins is (like any fiat currency) ultimately driven by supply and demand. With dollars, the supply is controlled by the Federal Reserve, and the demand is driven by the size of the US economy. The supply of Bitcoins grows automatically, asymptotically approaching 21 million, and the demand for Bitcoins is driven by the volume of Bitcoin-denominated transactions.
And that's Bitcoin's fundamental challenge: as far as we can tell, the volume of Bitcoin-denominated transactions is tiny. True, there are a few hundred merchants who say they accept Bitcoin, but most of them appear to be small concerns, and almost all of them also accept dollars, euros, or another national currency. They may do only a small fraction of their business in Bitcoins.
And that's not surprising. While Bitcoin doesn't have any formal transaction fees, transacting in Bitcoins carries risks that dealing in dollars or euros does not. If users store Bitcoins on their PCs, there's a risk that malware will gain access to their wallets and steal their funds. Conversely, if they put their Bitcoins in an "e-wallet" service online like MyBitcoin, there's a risk that that service will have a security breach, or that the owners of the service will themselves turn out to be crooks.
There are also risks due to volatility. For example, Bitcoins lost about 15 percent of their value on Monday between 8am and noon on the East Coast. Someone who bought Bitcoins on Monday morning expecting to spend them on Monday afternoon might find that Bitcoin-denominated prices had suddenly risen by 15 percent. The 2 percent transaction fee on credit cards might seem downright reasonable in comparison.
The current value of Bitcoin—just under $3—is still significantly above the April price of around $1. It's theoretically possible that the volume of Bitcoin commerce will grow enough to halt the slide in the currency's value. But the value of a currency is built on its reputation, and five months of bad news and depreciation have done serious damage. Indeed, the mood on Bitcoin forums has turned grim, with Bitcoin fans giving one another pep talks and debating how low the price can fall before the currency is declared dead. It'll be difficult to pull out of that kind of tailspin.
Not looking good if there is anyone here still mining, more specifically if you are paying for the power to do so.
Bobnova
10-21-11, 10:56 AM
The $4 to $2.50 drop was someone selling off 125k coins.
My rigs are all shut down, it's not profitable enough to listen to the fans at the moment.
ghost_recon88
10-21-11, 12:48 PM
Haven't mined in a few weeks, just not with it with Coins below $8.
jstutman
10-21-11, 11:14 PM
Haven't mined in a few weeks, just not with it with Coins below $8.
Same
I've given up as well on mining.
madhatter256
10-22-11, 01:13 PM
Good time to buy....
jstutman
10-22-11, 02:38 PM
Good time to buy....
Playing that market is worse than playing the bitcoin market. You may end up buying cards to mine coins and then the bitcoin market never recover's. You will never make the money back you spend on the cards. Heck, right now we are not even recovering the electrical cost.
madhatter256
10-22-11, 07:13 PM
I meant its probably a good time to buy bitcoins, not buy hardware to mine them...
jstutman
10-23-11, 01:47 AM
I meant its probably a good time to buy bitcoins, not buy hardware to mine them...
Oh. lol.
I then agree, but buying/selling is playing a market. This I suck at :)
StellarMoig
10-28-11, 12:19 AM
If you buy the bitcoins, you are furthering the destruction of the Bitcoin. the more people buy the more they lose value. I think the bitcoin will die. This makes me sad :(
TiZakit
10-28-11, 12:27 AM
Did I miss something? How does people buying bitcoins make it decrease in its value?
Seems to me the exact opposite would happen. More buying means people have more faith in the market. More buying means that the market has less supply of BC.
StellarMoig
10-28-11, 01:05 AM
Sorry, my comment was accusatory, and only slightly true. Becuase people have stopped mining(myself included) and started to buy the bitcoins at the lower price and then selling them for real money. Its not just buying the bitcoins, its selling them for real money that is causing the drop in value. (as far as I know)
Janus67
10-28-11, 09:03 AM
Correct, taking the value out of the economy is what is hurting the value of them. If people bought bitcoins and used them to purchase goods (thus giving them a different form of value) I think it would stay more around where it is. At this point it is pretty much supply and demand, and where the holders/banks/etc that would buy/sell bitcoins are holding onto a lot of the stock of them they are losing less value as less people are using them for real-world items.
Just from my perspective, i would be afraid to accept bitcoins (Company owner) the fluctuation of price is far to unstable, and it's a risk many company's are not willing to take, if i traded goods or services for say 100($200) bitcoins, and ran down to the groceries store expecting to get ($200) worth of food, i might end up coming out with ($150) worth of food just because the rate fluctuates far to much.
Decentralized currency sounds great in theory, but for stability there has to be a center, otherwise a buyer or a seller is going to loose from one day to the next.
everything has to have a centralization, when you get new PC hardware, you compare it to what's available, when you buy a car, you don't just pick a 1985 4 door sedan, you look at the brand, or the make/model and most importantly the cost. Everything has a center and you find the center using comparisons and process of elimination, bitcoins is no different, the centralization to it is the cost of electricity, and the value of the dollar, which are both centralized, electric companies don't take bitcoins as payment, so bitcoins really failed before it began, now if there was some sort of agreement, like there was with the dollar, but we are already having to many problems with our own currencies no matter where you are in the world, that nobody wants another potential unstable dollar, especially since you can't get anything important with it, like the electricity it cost's to make it.
You can't depend on a car that runs on gas when nobody will sell you gas.
Theocnoob
12-06-11, 12:25 PM
Oh. lol.
I then agree, but buying/selling is playing a market. This I suck at :)
How so? You buy it and turn around and flip it on an ipod really fast. It's not hard.
You purchase a depreciating liquid asset at low cost and turn it into a hard asset as quickly as possible.
Same thing as you do with any currency when it crashes.
If you are in the opposite position, and own bitcoins, it is a good time to sell them all before their value falls further for the same reasons.
Hard (Canadian Dollar US dollar Euro Yuan, etc) currencies are more stable than bitcoin, and the things you can buy with them more still.
$200 000 won't buy as much in 20 years, but the house you buy with it today will perhaps be worth 400 000 in 20 years. But THAT'S real estate and THAT IS a crappshoot.
Transparent Elf
12-06-11, 02:42 PM
you dont think they will go above 3.00 for a long time?
you dont think they will go above 3.00 for a long time?
I think it's pretty much dead. At one stage I lost most of what little savings I had through Bitcoin. I've never made that money back.
I still don't get this ****...
I get how currency works, but why does some computer calculations turn into money? That's where you lose me...
All I can conclude is that this Satoshi Nakamoto character must work for AMD.
I still don't get this ****...
I get how currency works, but why does some computer calculations turn into money?
Computer calculations (in this case) don't turn into money. Bitcoins are mined by performing calculations. These calculations are then checked by other computers on the Bitcoin network to ensure that the coins were not fraudulently generated. The rate at which coins are generated depends on the hash rate, difficulty, blocks found (if mining solo) and/or mining pool commission.
They (BTC) can then be exchanged for various other currencies or goods.
Computer calculations (in this case) don't turn into money. Bitcoins are mined by performing calculations. These calculations are then checked by other computers on the Bitcoin network to ensure that the coins were not fraudulently generated. The rate at which coins are generated depends on the hash rate, difficulty, blocks found (if mining solo) and/or mining pool commission.
They (BTC) can then be exchanged for various other currencies or goods.
I get that but why would I exchange goods to someone because they owned a bunch of video cards that are really good at calculations?
They keep saying it's decentralized but it seems to me that the need to own expensive computers to get money from the reserve (with a lowercase r) kills that idea, doesn't it?
I'm going to start a new form of currency that I shall dole out to everyone who can sing a Michael Bolton tune on key. 1 song = 1 spekbuck.
I get that but why would I exchange goods to someone because they owned a bunch of video cards that are really good at calculations?
They keep saying it's decentralized but it seems to me that the need to own expensive computers to get money from the reserve (with a lowercase r) kills that idea, doesn't it?
I'm going to start a new form of currency that I shall dole out to everyone who can sing a Michael Bolton tune on key. 1 song = 1 spekbuck.
Because it's an investment. I could go out to a river and collect gold, then I could sell that gold to someone. The gold buyer will probably buy the gold in order to keep it for a while with the hope that it will appreciate in value.
Read this here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Block_chain or go to www.bitcointalk.org
Because it's an investment. I could go out to a river and collect gold, then I could sell that gold to someone. The gold buyer will probably buy the gold in order to keep it for a while with the hope that it will appreciate in value.
Read this here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Block_chain or go to www.bitcointalk.org
I get that.
Gold is a horrid example, gold is tangible, can be turned into things of higher value. That can't really be said about bitcoins (or dollar bills, for that matter).
I get that.
Gold is a horrid example, gold is tangible, can be turned into things of higher value. That can't really be said about bitcoins (or dollar bills, for that matter).
There are several online stores where you can buy things with BTC. That way you're turning your BTC into a tangible asset.
I know this. All I'm saying is that the generation of the currency is silly.
Bobnova
12-11-11, 10:25 AM
Yup, I agree. The generation of dollars is pretty silly too though, really!
Janus67
12-11-11, 09:46 PM
Somewhat true, although the dollars are printed and given to people for services performed. Doing calculations with video cards seems like a weird way to make money, seems like one of those commercials where a woman is saying 'i sit at my computer and make $125/hr doing nothing more than my normal browsing!' etc.
Bobnova
12-11-11, 10:45 PM
It's weird. It also has made me around $600. Had I started rather earlier that number would be far into the thousands.
Now it's rather less profitable, but there is still money in it.
Janus67
12-12-11, 09:33 AM
It's weird. It also has made me around $600. Had I started rather earlier that number would be far into the thousands.
Now it's rather less profitable, but there is still money in it.
As long as you aren't paying for the electricity
Bobnova
12-12-11, 09:40 AM
Still worth it for me per my latest round of calculations, on a daily basis my 5870 costs me about 60 cents in power (and saves about 30 cents of natural gas that I would have spent heating my house) and makes me $1.12 in bitcoins.
It's only making me about a pizza a month, but who doesn't want a free pizza?
If you pay more than 13 cents/kwh your results will vary!
The days of paying off your cards in a few days or a couple months are long gone though :(
xsuperbgx
12-12-11, 07:50 PM
i have mined bitcoin for a while now. I would have made decent money if I would have cashed it out as I got it. I will cash out when the price goes up enough that I can buy something that I can't resist. Since my 5870 lightning died a while back, I consider it a loss overall. I regret losing such a good benching gpu for so little gain. :mad:
I still mine a little bit, but not on hardware that I care about. My electricity here is about $.09 per kwh. So it is profitable if no more hardware dies.
xsuperbgx
12-28-11, 03:49 PM
There used to be a site or two for buying hardware with bitcoin, does anyone have a recommendation? Or is it better to cash out then buy from newegg, etc.?
Bobnova
12-28-11, 05:34 PM
I cash out, personally.
xsuperbgx
12-31-11, 04:36 PM
Do you cash out as you earn? or wait for a spike in prices? or wait until you need something?
I was going to cash out and get a couple more ssd's but, the way the price is going up lately I wonder if it is good to wait. Although, waiting has cost me big as the price went down. In other words my instincts thus far, are pretty much wrong....
Bobnova
12-31-11, 08:22 PM
I cash out 75%-90% immediately and save the rest in case bitcoin explodes to huge prices again.
Rezin777
01-01-12, 03:46 PM
I know this. All I'm saying is that the generation of the currency is silly.
Mining is not built around currency creation, that is simply a bootstrap feature to motivate people to mine.
Mining processes and secures transactions for the network. The more power thrown at mining, the more secure the network becomes.
Miners are paid to process and secure transactions. Eventually the fees will replace the block reward. But Satoshi knew people wouldn't mine for free in the early days of Bitcoin, when there were few transactions thus few fees. He also needed a way to distribute the coins. What better way than to pay people to secure and process transactions for the network?
KonaKona
01-02-12, 07:30 PM
Buttcoins are up to 5.20 or something silly like that now. I'm expecting it to drop back down but I'm usually wrong about things like this.
xsuperbgx
01-04-12, 07:51 PM
Man, I'm glad I didn't cash out a week ago. I think I will try to catch the top of a wave. I want a couple things, but I don't want to cash out when the price is going up like this...
Rezin777
01-04-12, 10:51 PM
Man, I'm glad I didn't cash out a week ago. I think I will try to catch the top of a wave. I want a couple things, but I don't want to cash out when the price is going up like this...
The Bitcoin exchange rate has the tendency to be extremely volatile. I recommend cost averaging to take away some of the risk. Sell a certain number of Bitcoins each week.
Anyone who has Bitcoins, I recommend holding a small portion of them just in case this thing is as revolutionary as many people think it is.
The market is so small right now that if one very rich person decides they want to gamble on Bitcoins, they could drive the price much, much higher.
At the same time, an early adopter with hundreds of thousands of coins could suddenly get a craving for fiat and drop the price much, much lower.
If you are trying to time the market, well there has been 5 months of a downtrend with tons of bad news. That has changed recently with exciting new services being offered and a steady increase in the exchange rate.
A popular television program http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2148561/ is coming out with an episode about Bitcoins very soon. This could have interesting effects on the exchange rate.
KonaKona
01-05-12, 02:45 AM
I'm more interested as to what the block buttcoin half that is supposed to happen around september or so is going to do to the prices. It's going to make it very, very hard to get into mining or upgrade an existing mining setup from a profitability standpoint unless prices go back up to something around the absurd prices we had this summer. Not sure how bad it will effect people already mining along with the cost of electricity.
Bobnova
01-05-12, 10:07 AM
Nothing good, is my guess.
Rezin777
01-05-12, 11:50 AM
I'm more interested as to what the block buttcoin half that is supposed to happen around september or so is going to do to the prices. It's going to make it very, very hard to get into mining or upgrade an existing mining setup from a profitability standpoint unless prices go back up to something around the absurd prices we had this summer. Not sure how bad it will effect people already mining along with the cost of electricity.
The halving of the block reward will be priced in long before the event. It's a known factor, speculators can see it miles in advance.
The difficulty will adjust accordingly.
It won't be as dramatic as people might think.
Coins being mined as I type this are absurdly profitable. Of course, that could change today, tomorrow, and so on.
Bobnova
01-05-12, 04:15 PM
Price is going up significantly. I bet a lot of people are pissed.
I'm kind of pissed really, I sold a small stack at $4 and was feeling snazzy :P
ghost_recon88
01-05-12, 04:52 PM
Price is going up significantly. I bet a lot of people are pissed.
I'm kind of pissed really, I sold a small stack at $4 and was feeling snazzy :P
I'm pissed, sold 125 of them at $3.10 a pop...
They are up to $6.60 now, about twice what I sold for a month ago...
i know this is going to sound super nooby butt i installed the program and i dont know how to mine. help pls!
TiZakit
01-05-12, 05:21 PM
I don't bitcoin.. but..
http://www.weusecoins.com/mining-guide.php
im trying to set up to mine on my own and im dont know how to do it
Rezin777
01-05-12, 06:10 PM
Price is going up significantly. I bet a lot of people are pissed.
I'm kind of pissed really, I sold a small stack at $4 and was feeling snazzy :P
I'm pissed, sold 125 of them at $3.10 a pop...
They are up to $6.60 now, about twice what I sold for a month ago...
No reason to be upset, it's very hard to time the market. If all you are concerned about is making fiat currency for doing a little mining, you did well.
Anyone who does serious research about Bitcoin and has a little understanding of economics should see how amazing Bitcoin is. It really has the potential to change a lot of what the world knows about money. Specifically by cutting out the middleman (banks). At the same time, one must be very responsible with their Bitcoins. You can't issue a charge back, it's like digital cash. Once it's gone, it's gone. Protect your wallets.
The price will come back down eventually (maybe :D). Until they are worth at least $50 a coin, its just too easy for someone with a decent amount of funds (BTC or fiat) to influence the market.
The correction down from $32 was not a bubble bursting. It was a constant stream of bad news along with major exchanges being hacked. People might be starting to realize that the actual Bitcoin network was unfazed and is still going strong. The infrastructure that is being built on top of Bitcoin is starting to mature (a bit) and this could account for the increasing exchange rate.
Anything could happen though, but my guess is as long as the actual Bitcoin network remains secure, we will see new highs in the BTC/USD exchange rate.
Rezin777
01-05-12, 06:12 PM
im trying to set up to mine on my own and im dont know how to do it
Mining on your own at this difficulty is not recommended. Unless you have 10+ Ghash/s, I would suggest joining a pool. There are several that do not charge any fees to mine.
what 1 u in?
which 1 do you think i should join?
and why does the OC forums not have a pool!!
Holy molly...
Volatile BTC is volatile... These things were trading at or around $6 yesterday and are now up to $7.
Why; oh why did I not get started on this months and months ago when it was recommended to me?
Rezin777
01-05-12, 06:38 PM
what 1 u in?
which 1 do you think i should join?
and why does the OC forums not have a pool!!
I mine in BTCGuild at the moment for simplicity. I have quite a few mining machines, so it's troublesome to make changes.
If I could change everything with a snap of my fingers, I would be mining in the P2Pool. It is the best for the future health of Bitcoin. And if you are mining Bitcoin, you want the future to be healthy.
P2Pool is more difficult to set up though. But it's much, much better for the Bitcoin network and security.
Rezin777
01-05-12, 06:42 PM
Holy molly...
Volatile BTC is volatile... These things were trading at or around $6 yesterday and are now up to $7.
Why; oh why did I not get started on this months and months ago when it was recommended to me?
There was a long period (5 months) where the exchange rate did nothing but go down. A whole bunch of people felt justified for calling Bitcoin all sorts of terrible things during that period.
Me? I was mining. This idea is too big to let go. As long as there are people that feel the same way I do, Bitcoin will succeed.
The bonus is I've learned so much along the way. About computers. About economics. And about people.
Rezin777
01-09-12, 09:12 PM
Since posting I've switched to p2pool. It's a decentralized bitcoin pool that doesn't put the power of everyone's hashing into the hands of a single pool operator.
I just wanted to let any miners here know that a few guys on the forum are donating a couple Bitcoins every day to p2pool in order to promote a decentralized network.
As long as the pools luck isn't horrible, and it hasn't been, it should be the most rewarding pool to mine at for the next few weeks (as long as they plan on donating to the miners).
Donations are done through a sendmany that splits the amount among the miners on a proportional basis according to how many shares you've contributed to p2pool in the past 24 hours.
It's slightly more difficult to set up, but nothing any of you should have trouble with. Just wanted to share the news because I believe pool operators shouldn't have as much influence over the network as they currently do. Even if you don't care, you can earn more Bitcoins in p2pool as long as they are donating (in most pools you even pay a fee to mine).
Convicted1
01-12-12, 04:30 AM
Hmmm...
There was another thread going that got me thinking about this whole Bitcoin thing...
I'm seriously considering building some rigs to mine with. (Especially in the winter time!)
See... Right now I've got 2 1500 Watt Ceramic heaters running in my garage attempting to keep the garage at a usable 50F temperature throughout the winter.
I'd much rather be putting something out there to heat with that would return some of the money I'm spending on heat.
In actuality, I don't even pay for the electricity, (well... It ends up being super cheap) since it's on a sub-account for my business, so it's all a tax write off at that point.
WHAT Hardware is best for getting into bitcoin mining, and how much of an investment am I looking at to make a decent return?
These "Pools" scare me... So unless we got a trusted group of guys here at OCF to start pooling... I think I'd rather stay on my own... Will this affect the viability of bitcoin making a decent ROI for me?
Any input from you veteran miners?
ya pls start a OCF pool
if you do i will join for sure!!!
*Vote for having a bitcoin subforum* and a distributed computing team. OCF mining pool ftw
xsuperbgx
01-13-12, 09:03 AM
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison. Look there for hardware comparison. You will want ati/amd stuff.
Pools are not a big deal really. They are mostly immediate payout nowdays. You just need to find one that you like and doesn't take too much in fees for what features they give you.
ChanceCoats123
01-14-12, 03:52 AM
Has anyone gotten pool mining to work on Ubuntu. I'm curious as to running my mining from a dual boot Win764/Ubuntu and I couldn't for the life of me get it running. It's like the download files no longer existed from the guide I was using so when I went to install via the terminal, there were no files to install (or at least they had the wrong name).
Also, there were addresses in the guide which had expired/terminated/non-existent web pages. Leads me to believe it's a much older guide and the links are dead by now. If this is the case, does anyone have a known working guide?
xsuperbgx
01-14-12, 09:38 AM
i think guiminer has a linux client. I would use that. Installation and running is much easier.
ChanceCoats123
01-14-12, 12:50 PM
According the forum that Guiminer is found on, the Linux support is in the infancy. I don't mind having to go in and run command line operations to get it going, but from what I read, most of getting it to work requires the user to set it up themselves. I'm looking for something that's a little more straight forward.
Edit: I guess I'll continue mining in Windows. On the bright side, I got my NMC wallet working in Linux. :D
xsuperbgx
01-15-12, 03:37 PM
i haven't got a namecoin wallet yet. I have a few accumulated, that I should cash out. i don't even know what they are worth.
ChanceCoats123
01-15-12, 04:18 PM
They mostly get traded for btc rather than usd.
And Bitcoin has gone mainstream... :D
http://www.cbs.com/shows/the_good_wife/video/2186658794/the-good-wife-bitcoin-for-dummies
KonaKona
01-16-12, 01:20 AM
And Bitcoin has gone mainstream... :D
http://www.cbs.com/shows/the_good_wife/video/2186658794/the-good-wife-bitcoin-for-dummies
My source was right? Oh boy.
My CPU can't get here soon enough, I need to start mining these bad boys already.
"This video isn't available in your country" FML.
Convicted1
01-16-12, 06:40 AM
"This video isn't available in your country" FML.
Proxy. ;)
"This video isn't available in your country" FML.
Yup... I doubt CBS would be willing to pay for the bandwidth to stream to other countries where their advertising doesn't make them money.
Proxy. ;)
+1 to that.
Just so you know what the whole thing is about. A very popular TV Show in the HS (The Good Wife) did an entire episode based around the Bitcoin currency.
ChanceCoats123
01-16-12, 01:17 PM
Pretty good stuff. Lol
Lol that was the dumbest crap I've ever heard lol.
"We believe this currency is being used on the black market for money launderers, drug dealers, and child pornographers"
Looks like they caught us boys...
Convicted1
01-16-12, 02:02 PM
Well... I actually wouldn't doubt theres a considerable amount of that going on.
I will however say... My personal opinion. It is NOT a currency.
It is closer to a commodity.
Whats everybody elses take?
I consider it a commodity as well, with potential to be a currency, (later on of course)
Once e-tailers open up to it, I can see you being able to buy stuff for bitcoins.
At the moment though, how could they price items? When bitcoins go from $7.15 - $6.50 in 24 hours how can your pricing be fair, yet net you a profit?
Right now it is too volatile to be used as money.
ChanceCoats123
01-16-12, 03:07 PM
^^^ What he said exactly. With the shifting in prices, it's much too volatile to be be used for purchases and such. There are also multiple exchanges. MTGox usually has a high trading rate than TH, so etailers could try and get more BTC by quoting a lower price.
And with such a quick changing market, it's as if someone would try to buy a car with S&P 500 shares. :screwy: Once it become more stable, it could be a possible currency contender.
Anyone make any big moves today?
xsuperbgx
01-17-12, 10:01 PM
I have been messing around with bitcoinica for the last few days. I have bought and sold little bits here and there. I only put 5btc in, so it is small amounts. I didn't want to risk losing any more than that.
I just put a buy order in at a low price and get a btc or two on one of the spikes down. then sell at a profit when the price goes back up.
There is not big money in it unless you want to risk big.
ChanceCoats123
01-17-12, 10:33 PM
Anyone make any big moves today?
I started mining LTC... Is that big?
Haha I was just curious. I was watching it all go down and wanted to take part soooo badly, but I only just started mining too and with Nvidia GPUs (my radeons are in the mail) so I only had 0.37 bitcoin to risk. :p
ChanceCoats123
01-17-12, 11:41 PM
I've got 1.5BTC and about 4 NMC. Not a whole lot just yet. I only have my 5870 mining right now, but I do have these waiting in the shadows... ;)
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn119/ChanceCoats123/011612012518.jpg
I already had the parts so I figure why not throw a couple of 5830's into them (yet to purchase). Right is my Phenom II 555x (mining LTC) in my UD5P so I can run 2x5830's and the right is a 3200+ single core that will possibly run 1x5830 in the future. I don't really want to drop a lot of cash into BTC with the market fluctuations, but where I live we pay $0.07/KWH so the energy costs are minimal. On top of that, the temps are getting colder and colder which means every Watt/Joule/BTU, whichever unit you want to convert it to, produced by my gpu's and cpu's means we pay less for NG to heat the house.
Ps. for those interested in using CPU cycles for something other than Seti or Folding, try Litecoin mining. I'm mining at litecoinpool.org. They offer both gui/cmd based miners as well as an online miner. I'm using the webminer until I get my HDD's for those rigs after which I will install Linux and have terminal based miners. It's not very profitable yet, but the difficulty is MAD low (we're talking "one's column" as opposed to BTC which is in the millions) and if you can get a nice sum of LTC, you can trade to USD or BTC on BTC-e.com. :)
Convicted1
01-17-12, 11:44 PM
Wow... Just looked up the daily trends for Bitcoin.
THAT is volatility now...
Scary stuff.
Where are you getting 5830s from? They are almost non existent haha.
I myself am going with 2 6970s watercooled (I need to game too here...) and each of my roommates are running a 6850. So we can pay for electricity ($0.105Kw/Hr) and internet, and I might have a bit extra for spending)
By the way, Litecoin? What is that a new currency, or difficulty altered bitcoin? Where is it traded?
ChanceCoats123
01-18-12, 07:17 AM
Litecoin is a cpu mined currency like bitcoin. Some of the details are a bit different. Like the block times for LTC are every 2.5 minutes. The difficulty is much lower because it's a relatively new currency, and the total hash rates are nothing compared to BTC (we're talking Kilo hash not Mega hash).
But it's trades on www.btc-e.com to USD or to BTC so I'll mine it. :shrug: I mean, the difficulty is so low, in the 7 or so hours that passed between my posts in this thread, I've made 2.5 LTC.
ya i have some namecoin how do you make a wallet for them?
TiZakit
01-18-12, 11:51 AM
and... the fan on my 5850 is failing now... see you all later.
ChanceCoats123
01-18-12, 04:13 PM
ya i have some namecoin how do you make a wallet for them?
I used this link to set my wallet up in Ubuntu 11.10. http://dot-bit.org/InstallAndConfigureNamecoin
I tried to get it going in windows, but none of the steps it mentioned in the guide actually happened. I hopped on Linux and with 5 minutes I was ready to receive NMC.
ok i dont have a linux computer i mine BTC at BTC guild it also give me name coins 2 i sent you a PM
Rezin777
01-20-12, 02:46 AM
Just wanted to toss this out there again. Anyone starting up mining should really check out P2Pool.
It's not a normal pool because it doesn't give all the power to the pool operator. Everyone in P2Pool is an operator, which is much healthier for the network.
Last I checked they were still giving out extra donations to the miners of P2Pool, whereas most pools charge you a fee to mine!
Also, the pool is growing steadily, and the variance continues to reduce.
Consolidation of the mining power is dangerous for Bitcoin, and even if you are only doing this for fiat currency, if trust in the network fails, miners paychecks will stop rolling in.
Oh, love the volatility. Thanks Bitcoinica!
Rezin777
01-20-12, 02:49 AM
and... the fan on my 5850 is failing now... see you all later.
Sorry to hear this. I've been lucky I guess. All of my cards have been running 24/7 for months on end. Fan speeds are normally 70% plus! So far, I've yet to have a failure.
Some of them are getting a bit noisy though. I shut down occasionally and clean out the dust, which helps.
Rezin777
01-20-12, 02:53 AM
Lol that was the dumbest crap I've ever heard lol.
"We believe this currency is being used on the black market for money launderers, drug dealers, and child pornographers"
Looks like they caught us boys...
I thought it was hilarious and ironic that the Fed's lawyer was the one that said this. I guess he forgot that Federal Reserve Notes are use for this stuff every day!
ChanceCoats123
01-20-12, 07:21 AM
Just wanted to toss this out there again. Anyone starting up mining should really check out P2Pool.
It's not a normal pool because it doesn't give all the power to the pool operator. Everyone in P2Pool is an operator, which is much healthier for the network.
Last I checked they were still giving out extra donations to the miners of P2Pool, whereas most pools charge you a fee to mine!
Also, the pool is growing steadily, and the variance continues to reduce.
Consolidation of the mining power is dangerous for Bitcoin, and even if you are only doing this for fiat currency, if trust in the network fails, miners paychecks will stop rolling in.
Oh, love the volatility. Thanks Bitcoinica!
Some kind of guide on getting this going? I'm very interested.
Rezin777
01-20-12, 04:02 PM
Some kind of guide on getting this going? I'm very interested.
Here is the P2Pool thread from bitcointalk.org.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.0
If you have any difficulties, I try to check this thread every few days, and would be happy to try and help out.
ChanceCoats123
01-20-12, 11:36 PM
HUGE thanks goes out to Rezin777 who helped me get set up on p2pool. If anyone else would like help let me know. I have limited knowledge of it, but I should be able to help you get going in Windows. :)
Edti: I finally got namecoind.exe running from within Windows if anyone needs help.
Rezin777
01-22-12, 01:44 AM
From what I've seen on the bitcointalk.org forums, it looks like a few people are continuing the campaign to provide extra donations to the miners of P2Pool. This is fantastic! I've already made much more mining there than I could have at several of the large pools.
ChanceCoats123
01-22-12, 12:09 PM
From what I've seen on the bitcointalk.org forums, it looks like a few people are continuing the campaign to provide extra donations to the miners of P2Pool. This is fantastic! I've already made much more mining there than I could have at several of the large pools.
And that means I will get some of the donated goodness. Does it just get added in with our cut when we find a block?
Rezin777
01-25-12, 05:15 PM
And that means I will get some of the donated goodness. Does it just get added in with our cut when we find a block?
No, it shows up as a regular transaction. According to the preconfigured sendmany, the lowest hashrate users will be in a kind of lottery to get some of the donation.
I think this is so people aren't donating a smaller amount than the fees required to send it!
One or two bitcoins divided among all the members of P2Pool can end up being a really small amount if your submitted shares are low compared to the pool average. This is because the donation is split according to how many shares you've submitted.
ChanceCoats123
01-25-12, 05:50 PM
I'm pretty sure I got a donation today. :) In my wallet, the BTC I make from mining shows up as "mined" but this transaction was labeled "p2pool". :D
Rezin777
01-27-12, 03:08 PM
For anyone using P2Pool, the last 2 days have been terribly unlucky, not finding a single block. But the pool is growing, and luck changes.
Anyway, there is an update to P2Pool, so anyone mining on it should go grab it.
ChanceCoats123
01-27-12, 11:27 PM
Not finding a single block is probably related to my very scare shares. I'm normally every 30-40 minutes per share, but the last two days it's been hours before shares. I had to restart my computer, and I swear, it was hours before A=1. :(
Edit: Updated my p2pool executable and holy cow did it make a difference... :thup:
Bitcoin is definitely an interesting concept... but I don't get why someone just starts a NPO bank which stocks up on an extremely wide range of valuables, currencies for people buying in and out, and metals. A digital currency backed 1:1 by, everything, so if one think sinks it doesn't take much of a hit.
ChanceCoats123
01-28-12, 12:25 PM
Bitcoin is definitely an interesting concept... but I don't get why someone just starts a NPO bank which stocks up on an extremely wide range of valuables, currencies for people buying in and out, and metals. A digital currency backed 1:1 by, everything, so if one think sinks it doesn't take much of a hit.
What? :confused::confused:
While I'm having trouble deciphering this... I can talk to the fact that it would be impossible to back BTC in anything tangible, and that's the point. Bitcoin was created to eliminate the centralized power system of middle men (banks) that we currently use around the world. Current currencies can be backed by tangible items because one organization controls the production of these currencies (Example: The US banks can back the USD with tangible items because only the US mints can legally create more USD). Bitcoin cannot be backed by tangible items because each and every member who is currently mining, is creating more. Due to the current volatility, BTC is viewed as more of a commodity. However, once all of the BTC that can be created are, the price will be based more stably.
You are aware it's just a scheme... you're parting with fiat for even more worthless fiat.
Because unlike the fiat which is self-backed(retarded debt based system), bitcoin is backed by nothing... you think the money you put in to buy the bitcoins just stays in the hands of the one who sold the bitcoin? No, they keep it.
The only reason this hasn't collapsed is because it's growing, the second people try exchanging their bitcoin back for money at a rate which is faster than what's coming in, it'll collapse, there's no reserve.
I could make a safer currency by being a 1:1 bank... metals and currencies backing a virtual currency, instead of BtC which is backed by nothing, even the paradoxical fiats in the world now which are debt backed have more value... only if they were nationally issued and controlled with good intention...
ChanceCoats123
01-28-12, 01:55 PM
Actually, I don't "buy" bitcoins. I stimulate the economy (hardware manufacturers who have no affiliation with BTC) by buying hardware to mine on. Aside from paying for electricity, which also has no affiliation with BTC, I am getting my BTC for absolutely free.
Since BTC functions like a command economy, "the second people try exchanging their bitcoins for money" is when people will buy more bitcoin. The exchange rate will decrease depending upon the volume of exchanges, but not for long. Once the supply decreases again (which is has to since there can only be so many bitcoins mined), the demand will again increase which drives the price back up.
If you feel like you can create a better bank, then by all means, start one. Just don't come crap on another cryptocurrency because you disagree with it.
As much as i hate to say it i think Silk Road and/or people who use it is keeping the bitcoins more or less stabilized.
Illegal or not, it's a place that has things with a demand, easier to get it off the street, but possibly cheaper to mine for 4 days and spend those coins rather than pay cash.
Disclaimer: I don't do drugs, know very little about silk road, that's just how i see silk road and it's customers- it's keeping bitcoin competitive with outdoor sales, that's good for everybody i guess, what people do in their own home is their business.
ChanceCoats123
01-28-12, 11:43 PM
Well, that is probably a use. Pretty much untraceable transactions (and even if they were traced, the addresses are anonymous) and basically instant to anywhere in the world.
But again, it was brought up when The Good Wife episode aired and the US defense attorney claimed, "...we think this currency is being used on the black market (or whatever) for illegal sales and such". That might be true... but so are USD, Euros, Rupees. Whatever currency you wish to choose. :shrug:
No, no i'm not saying it's a bad thing, in fact i think it's fine, it's good for them, they get what they want, and good for us, because we are able to make the light bill lol
Iv'e become open minded to people who want to do drugs, when i bought my 50 caliber and took it to the range i had nothing but a bunch of ass riders saying it should be illegal just because it has a louder bang than theirs, jealousy. Probably because buying a $3000 rifle isn't in everyone's budget, and then buying a $1000 scope and another $1000 of accessories, plus $2 per shot if you catch the sales, iv'e turned at least 10 bitcoins into a box of 50 cal ammo so far. (Maybe that's not the same scenario but it works for me)
ChanceCoats123
01-28-12, 11:50 PM
Lolol :thup: It doesn't affect me, so I say :shrug:
I guess you don't get the economics of a currency, national currencies can be fiat because the supply is eaten by taxation and it's printed to fund development, so it has value(paying taxes) and it can't get run unless a huge number of people changed to a foreign currency... which they wouldn't because they need it for taxes.
Although fiat these days is no longer sovereign, it's issuance is controlled by the central bank instead of the government, and the government loans it from the central bank who created it out of thin air instead of the government... so it's value is redundant and self-imposed... it's valuable because someone is in debt to pay back the loan that made it... stupid system, designed to boom and bust.
Private currencies which are fiat are most vulnerable to collapse unless they have decent sized holdings... which is funny enough - the situation with modern banks who have a minuscule amount of money in the vault compared to the amount of deposits, fractional reserve banking.
Bitcoin is a good(as new) currency, but it brings along flaws from the current fiat system, only advantage is anonymity.
Could start my own bank... but I don't have big enough holdings.
TimoneX
01-31-12, 02:51 PM
I would add that bitcoins unlike USDs do not include a system of devaluation by design through inflation. This to me is their greatest advantage. While there are more being created as demand increases it is not regulated by one body and cannot be used to devalue(steal) from everyone using bitcoins the way the Federal(not) Reserve(none) uses quantitative easing(dilution) to steal from everyone using USDs.
I mine bitcoins, convert them to USDs then convert the USDs to real money(SILVER and Gold).
Ya, inflation is a terrible thing, yet it's a core part of the current currency system, it's supporters must love feudalism.
Silver and gold is annoying, lots of counterfeiting unless you buy it raw, which is actually cheaper.
I like tin, copper, tantalum... valuable materials which are consumed rather than stockpiled.
Bitcoin "mining" is the flaw of bitcoin though, people buy bitcoin but the wealth isn't reserved to keep the value. Banks get free money to make money, bitcoin miners make money out of computing... any data on the economics? I've seen a post saying $1 of computers made $2 of bitcoin...
TimoneX
01-31-12, 05:39 PM
I've never personally seen a counterfeit silver coin in my years of buying and selling. I deal in 90% and 1oz Silver American Eagles. I suppose you'd have to be more careful if you invested heavily in gold. Copper pennies are attractive since they have a negative premium, but you cannot melt them to obtain the bullion...yet. Doesn't prevent one from stockpiling them in anticipation of the day in which you can. Copper bullion premiums are so high as to make it unattractive.
I do not find mining to be a flaw at all...quite the contrary. Dual 6950s in this system generate over 800 megahashes and cost me a few bucks a month in electricity. The cards themselves were $210 each and I use them for multiple purposes. I and other individuals are creating the supply of this crypto currency and not some fascist banker pig mashing a few keys on a keyboard and looting savers of USDs at will.
Just like a bullion or regular fiat currency, bitcoin seems to have a steep early adopter advantage, mining... although I haven't looked into th numbers, people who mine don't seem to publish numbers like bullion and paper bugs.
Also, yum, tantalum has served me far better than any other metal.
One concept I talked to someone about was energy based currency, an interesting tie into both fiat and bullion... as interesting as it would be a mess, although would drive a thorium/ammonia economy better than fossil fuels.
ChanceCoats123
01-31-12, 07:51 PM
I'm really digging this consistent $5-6 exchange rate lately. :thup: [knocks on wood]
I'm really digging this consistent $5-6 exchange rate lately. :thup: [knocks on wood]
I wonder if it will go up more when the blocks only give 25 BTC a block, thats going to be a MASSIVE decrease in Payout no matter how much Ghash you have. I'm already in danger of not making the energy it cost.
BTC would have to jump to $10/BTC to make up for the 50% generation loss, and i don't see that, because if it hit $10/BTC people would fly in thinking it's still 50BTC per block or as easy as it was last year and increase difficulty, causing a vicious cycle of what happened when it hit $30/BTC, people will sell out and you can take it from there, it takes months for BTC to recover from hits like that.
There is a video on youtube that i will find and link that basically tells you how to play the stock market correctly you cannot flip out when you put in $10,000 and loose $12,000 (you owe $2000) it happens all the time, give it a few months and you can have $24,000 with any luck, or you'll get your $12,000 back, but when people see their investment dwindling they freak out and end up hurting themselves and everybody else who has invested around them, this is no different, you have to chill out and wait. Withdrawing your investments early hurts the company, the same way it hurts BTC to cash out 1,000 BTC at one time.
This is part of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQtW8BTjctI
The key is though: You have to stick with what you do. - Generally, if you stick with it, you'll do pretty well.. over a long period of time. - If you jump from, what's hot today to something thats hot tomorrow, then, generally you don't make money.
pwnmachine
02-01-12, 04:12 AM
Bitcoin mining is great for efficient miners but hell for poor traders :p
xsuperbgx
02-01-12, 10:27 AM
I think the bitcoin market will adjust ahead of time for the decrease in block rewards. It is well documented and will not be a surprise.
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