AWOOGA!! MaxPC are back on our threat list! AWOOGA!!

[the_cultie]

As of the 6am update MaxPC along with Custom PC and the Russians are on our threat list. If we're not careful we could be knocked down to 7th place very soon :eek: And I for one am not going to sit back and let that happen without some sort of a fight.

I know there is a shortage of bigadv WU's and it really hits our production but overall I think we need something to get us increasing our production through other means.

Let's get the ideas going people!

[petteyg359]

As of the 6am update MaxPC along with Custom PC and the Russians are on our threat list. If we're not careful we could be knocked down to 7th place very soon :eek: And I for one am not going to sit back and let that happen without some sort of a fight.
9AM says MaxPC has dropped behind again, but they're only 15k daily average behind us.
Let's get the ideas going people!

I could sell 24/7 dedicated folding on i7 930 + 8GB machines for $100/month/machine (your choice bigadv or any number of smp processes) :)

[Sommelier]

9AM says MaxPC has dropped behind again, but they're only 15k daily average behind us.


I could sell 24/7 dedicated folding on i7 930 + 8GB machines for $100/month/machine (your choice bigadv or any number of smp processes) :)

Better idea - 2600K folding bigadv for $99.99 a month.

[TC]

If all goes according to plan I'll have another 2600 in action by the weekend, and an sr-2 rig in the pipe within 30 days.

[petteyg359]

Better idea - 2600K folding bigadv for $99.99 a month.

I'd like to know where you're getting those from, unless you plan on running them out of your own house :) Anyway, it wasn't a very realistic idea. Power costs would be only half that per month, and a few months' payments would buy the hardware outright. I just mention it because I know there are other people operating rented dedicated servers, and if the application running on it is just a hobby or otherwise not critical to some business, throwing some FAH in the background is easy to do.

[johan851]

Can't we just pay for some boxes on Amazon EC2? :)

[CompuTamer]

Could we maybe rent some servers in a hosting cluster for this?

No one's at my school... 25 servers and 350 P4s and C2Ds and 100 i5 based laptops... if only...

If i didn't use my desktop, and if it weren't so hot down here, i'd gladly chunk in my i7 and my 4850. As it is, i can hardly play games easily. :/

[ChanceCoats123]

I'm not a folder, but I just wanted to thank "the_cultie" for giving me a laugh. Been a long while since I've seen someone say "AWOOGA!" :thup:

[Bijiont]

Sorry should have my other 2 folders up later this week (Total of 4 2600k's).

Grandfather died recently so computers/folding has been the farthest from my mind. Should be pushing about 200k average if I did my math correct.

[the_cultie]

I'm not a folder, but I just wanted to thank "the_cultie" for giving me a laugh. Been a long while since I've seen someone say "AWOOGA!" :thup:

No problem, had to use something that would grab people's attention :D

Sorry should have my other 2 folders up later this week (Total of 4 2600k's).

Grandfather died recently so computers/folding has been the farthest from my mind. Should be pushing about 200k average if I did my math correct.

Sorry to hear about your grandfather. That'll be great to have 2 more 2600K's up and running. Thanks Bijiont :salute:

[Adak]

Background:
Working with the team stats a few years back, our number of active folders was about 640. Now we're hovering just over 300 hundred (310 atm).

No matter how successful our team is at farming, we can't rely on a few super productive folders (ChasR, HayesK, SFU, Ned, etc.), to move our team away from the likes of TSC! Russia with their 800+ members. We need more actively folding teammates, and we aren't getting them.

We need to partner up with some (perhaps several), manufacturers and/or distributors, of PC gear. EVGA, Overclockers.net, even Hardware Canucks, have done this, all with great success.

Overclocking.com is a great name, but overclocking information is available (even on OCF), quite apart from Folding@Home. We don't get a lot of new folders, because they came here looking for overclocking help.

We need something that will attract new members, and there's nothing as successful as special or discounted prices on new gear. I know Gregorian chanting *seems* like it would attract hordes of FAH enthusiasts, but so far, it hasn't worked. :rofl:

What companies we make arrangements with, what those arrangements will be, and how they'll be implemented, are important details, for later. First, we need to decide whether we want to pursue this, or not. IMO, we either have to move forward with it, or accept becoming a team fighting to stay even, but ultimately on the decline.

I see the excitement that is so evident on the "new gear" teams, when the newest discounted or special gear offer rolls out onto their forum. We need that kind of excitement, to attract and maintain new members. FAH will always be about the cure, but new folders have a choice of thousands of FAH teams. Whether we like it or not, we are in competition for those new members. They are likely to only join one team. Right now, we're not being competitive with the best teams, in recruiting/attracting the new members we need.

Comments most welcome.

[Sommelier]

Sorry should have my other 2 folders up later this week (Total of 4 2600k's).

Grandfather died recently so computers/folding has been the farthest from my mind. Should be pushing about 200k average if I did my math correct.

Sorry to hear of your loss. It will be tough, but in a year(or two) from now when you look back at the good times with him, it will put a smile on your face.

I also have 4 i7s (3*2600ks + 970 hex) folding right now. Ever since the chimp challenge, it looks like I'm not getting the WUs or the credit fairly often. I don't use monitoring software, so I'm not sure what's wrong. I wasn't getting WUs for a while when the server went down.

You and I should have the same ppd, but I do see you on my threat list... I better get this straightened out! Time to get the new version of HFM!

[the_cultie]

Background:
Working with the team stats a few years back, our number of active folders was about 640. Now we're hovering just over 300 hundred (310 atm).

No matter how successful our team is at farming, we can't rely on a few super productive folders (ChasR, HayesK, SFU, Ned, etc.), to move our team away from the likes of TSC! Russia with their 800+ members. We need more actively folding teammates, and we aren't getting them.

We need to partner up with some (perhaps several), manufacturers and/or distributors, of PC gear. EVGA, Overclockers.net, even Hardware Canucks, have done this, all with great success.

Overclocking.com is a great name, but overclocking information is available (even on OCF), quite apart from Folding@Home. We don't get a lot of new folders, because they came here looking for overclocking help.

We need something that will attract new members, and there's nothing as successful as special or discounted prices on new gear. I know Gregorian chanting *seems* like it would attract hordes of FAH enthusiasts, but so far, it hasn't worked. :rofl:

What companies we make arrangements with, what those arrangements will be, and how they'll be implemented, are important details, for later. First, we need to decide whether we want to pursue this, or not. IMO, we either have to move forward with it, or accept becoming a team fighting to stay even, but ultimately on the decline.

I see the excitement that is so evident on the "new gear" teams, when the newest discounted or special gear offer rolls out onto their forum. We need that kind of excitement, to attract and maintain new members. FAH will always be about the cure, but new folders have a choice of thousands of FAH teams. Whether we like it or not, we are in competition for those new members. They are likely to only join one team. Right now, we're not being competitive with the best teams, in recruiting/attracting the new members we need.

Comments most welcome.

I think I will have to agree with you there. You just have to look at how large the EVGA folding team got in a short space of time. I know we pride ourselves in the way we operate and how we got a very close knit team :grouphug: but I think we have to look to the future and we must adapt to the new trends.

But saying that I think we should still increase the chanting and rituals too to keep ourselves covered http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/fantasy/fantasy-sorcery-01.gif


I could sell 24/7 dedicated folding on i7 930 + 8GB machines for $100/month/machine (your choice bigadv or any number of smp processes) :)
Talking about money I know a lot of people have to be careful with running costs and what not. I am in the boat where I could afford to run another rig but actually making the capital investment in one is where I have the problem. I did have the crazy idea of sponsored machines or something of that nature where team members help fund a new rig and someone promises to fold 24/7 or something. But how practical that would be is another thing; as I said :screwy: idea, and I'm full of them :ty:

But this is where we need to start, we need to discuss, get as many people on board and start a plan of action.

[Sommelier]

We are 6th ppd team with 12/13th number of folders. If we did something like EVGA does, we could get a lot of users and ppd. Hell, if Newegg gave 5% off to folders of our team, we'd have waaaay more users than EVGA. 5% is enough to get people interested. Hosting companies could afford to give a bigger discount. I've thought of giving free tech support to people that folded for t32 or me, but in the end realized I didn't feel like helping a bunch of people with their computers.

How hard could it be to get 40 2600ks to get us to the 4th team in production - or 350 to get us into 1st...

[Adak]

Getting 40 systems purchased, is a sizable goal, but then comes the larger goal of getting teammates to pay for the electricity they use, handle the heat they generate, and make the occasional changes that the systems would need from time to time. Also, someone would need to find the space and the extra circuits for these PC's.

I don't know of any practical way to get this, or a greater increase, without using new members to the team.

Heard on the radio today that Pres. Obama's EPA has acted to ban certain coal based electrical generating plants. Impact will be 11% to 23% increase in electrical rates, in the affected service areas. These kind of increases will make all distributed computing projects suffer.

We had a program in the past, to place free systems in homes, with the understanding that they would be folding in the background. It did not work very well. Folding production was minuscule, and we had no control of the system once it was placed in the new home. After awhile, many of them stopped folding entirely.

[X@nder36]

That awooga got me going. Turned on my folding client (although I kinda forgot how it works). Can't say I'll be a big help, but I suppose every bit helps :bday:

[TC]

I recall from days gone by with the Seti team we went through similar trials and tribulations. The heavy hitters can't single-handedly sustain and advance the team. What's needed is to attract and retain new members, and keep them active. Without a good mixture of active members the team can be likened to a cinder block wall with some big blocks and no mortar holding it together.

I would suggest as some others have already, that we form some relationships with vendors and offer rewards for contests or something along those lines. Whether we have giveaways or promotional discounts is something we can debate. The arguably more difficult challenge is keeping new folks active over the long haul. A quarterly or semi-annual contest may pick up a few new faces, but once the excitement dies down they may wander off.

I certainly don't claim to be any expert at this, but we might benefit from some of the same marketing techniques I use to retain customers in business - namely top of mind awareness and time/value oriented incentives. Perhaps a few big giveaways and/or discount offers throughout the year, bolstered with a newsletter or some means of reaching out to members and keeping the interest alive. I think we can pull it off but it may take some experimenting to find the most effective formula.

[dfonda]

I have one i7 on Rosetta, I wanted to put up some numbers for the team, after a bit it will be back. I can run it one week on fah and the next on Rosie for the summer.

[Sommelier]

Any ideas for why I wouldn't get the bonus points on my 2600K folding a 6900 with a 26 minute tpf? I'm using the same passkey as I have from day one - I copy pasted from the stanford email and just checked to make sure all the characters copied. That was 80k+ points we didn't get yesterday... Plus one of my other machines that's folding but the points aren't showing anymore - not sure which one. I guess that's 2 machines towards the 40 we need ;)

[Adak]

Any ideas for why I wouldn't get the bonus points on my 2600K folding a 6900 with a 26 minute tpf? I'm using the same passkey as I have from day one - I copy pasted from the stanford email and just checked to make sure all the characters copied. That was 80k+ points we didn't get yesterday... Plus one of my other machines that's folding but the points aren't showing anymore - not sure which one. I guess that's 2 machines towards the 40 we need ;)

Insufficient chanting and rituals? Wrong incantation? :D

I'll be glad to have it checked out. To do that, I need you to post the first 30 or so lines of text from the fahlog.txt file (the very first part, before the steps start being counted), for that work unit, and your client.cfg file from that PC. Both files will be in the FAH directory.

This is something that the mods can do for us, in the FAH forum. You can request it directly as well, if you prefer, here:

http://foldingforum.org/

After sign in, go to the work unit sub-forum and make your request.

[Sommelier]

I'm not sure exactly which unit got credit and which didn't. Also, I have a couple 4k credits here and there that I can't account for. Also, I just noticed that a couple of my computers couldn't send for almost a day. I'll wait for the servers to clear up and keep an eye on it then - assuming I get credit for the next WU.

[Adak]

If you open the fahlog.txt, with a text editor, and search for 64(100), you should be able to quickly see which work units have completed successfully. Then glance down just a bit further, and you should see the welcome and thanks messages from Folding@Home, as well.

The strange 4k credits may be wu's that had an error, and returned for only partial credit. That too, would be noted in the same file.

I'm currently crunching for the Rosetta team (back from the SETI team). If you want to aim some folding rigs at my account, (just for testing purposes, of course), I promise not to complain too much about it. :rofl:

Good luck!

[augie1111]

If you open the fahlog.txt, with a text editor, and search for 64(100), you should be able to quickly see which work units have completed successfully. Then glance down just a bit further, and you should see the welcome and thanks messages from Folding@Home, as well.

The strange 4k credits may be wu's that had an error, and returned for only partial credit. That too, would be noted in the same file.

I'm currently crunching for the Rosetta team (back from the SETI team). If you want to aim some folding rigs at my account, (just for testing purposes, of course), I promise not to complain too much about it. :rofl:

Good luck!Those 4K units could well have been a3's as I got several during the CS bigadv down time.

[Sommelier]

Looks like almost all my work units have not been sent in on first try - some take a day. Some get WUs right away, some don't. Awesome, 85k ppd from three 2600Ks and an i7 hex all folding 24/7!

The Fahlog.txt doesn't go back very far, so that didn't help me. With all the WUs not being sent in to the server, it "makes sense" that they would lose out in the bonus points, even though my WU was done 24 hours earlier. Winning!

[augie1111]

Looks like almost all my work units have not been sent in on first try - some take a day. Some get WUs right away, some don't. Awesome, 85k ppd from three 2600Ks and an i7 hex all folding 24/7!

The Fahlog.txt doesn't go back very far, so that didn't help me. With all the WUs not being sent in to the server, it "makes sense" that they would lose out in the bonus points, even though my WU was done 24 hours earlier. Winning!:rofl: I'm not sure posting that will get you any extra credit at f@h.:D

[Sommelier]

Not looking for any extra credit from FAH. Just sitting with my tiger blood and venting a little.

[augie1111]

Not looking for any extra credit from FAH. Just sitting with my tiger blood and venting a little.OOh, a little Burgandy vino perhaps to cheer you up?;)

[Sommelier]

OOh, a little Burgandy vino perhaps to cheer you up?;)

I like Burgundy, but it brings out the bitterness in the situation. With all the heat from the computers folding, I think a cold beer would be a better match - or maybe a gin and tonic. Mmmmm gin. OK, Broker's Gin and tonic to start, beer after that to watch the hockey game with and some hard booze if Boston loses or I don't start getting some of these points!

edit: Boston leading 4-0 at the end of the first makes me feel better :)

edit edit: Boston won 5-2 and the FAH server gave a new/accepted the completed WU right away on a 2600k! Bi-Winning!

[Kowalski3500]

If my imaginary i7-2600K could fold it'd be doing so. As would the real GTX 560 I've got here. Just need an SSD and a processor. That 15k ppd is the GTX 560 :P

Edit: Folding on i5-430M and Dell Vostro with core2duo as 24/7 as I can ;)

[the_cultie]

If my imaginary i7-2600K could fold it'd be doing so. As would the real GTX 560 I've got here. Just need an SSD and a processor. That 15k ppd is the GTX 560 :P

Edit: Folding on i5-430M and Dell Vostro with core2duo as 24/7 as I can ;)

Nice! I'm the same, if I had a SR-2 or two with some hex cores it'd be folding 24/7.

Sorry I haven't been about these last few days to help with the chants, flew to San Francisco on Saturday to see my fiancée and today is the first chance I had to get online properly :screwy: As I write this post I ma sitting in the home of Folding@Home, I am in the School of Medicine's Library in Stanford University. I guess you could call it a pilgrimage :thup:

[petteyg359]

If my imaginary i7-2600K

if I had a SR-2 or two

Let's get that whole group-think / imagination / 90% unused brain thing going and start some spontaneous manifestation of machines... :comp:

[the_cultie]

Let's get that whole group-think / imagination / 90% unused brain thing going and start some spontaneous manifestation of machines... :comp:

Already trying, but we need more people doing it if its going to work :rock:

[Stratus_ss]

I have 3 threads folding on an I7 860 and I put my gtx 460 into the fray as well. I might get my 2500K going as well we'll see

[augie1111]

Let's get that whole group-think / imagination / 90% unused brain thing going and start some spontaneous manifestation of machines... :comp:POOF!http://bestsmileys.com/magic/1.gif Here's a 2600K flying your way July 1st and perhaps some odds and ends too before that.;):D

[petteyg359]

POOF!http://bestsmileys.com/magic/1.gif Here's a 2600K flying your way July 1st and perhaps some odds and ends too before that.;):D

Just as long as it doesn't fly through my closed window :) I can't afford a dorm repair fee right now :)

[augie1111]

Just as long as it doesn't fly through my closed window :) I can't afford a dorm repair fee right now :)I should have said T32's way, let them pay for any busted windows or Windows as a matter of fact.;):D

[VinnyTAMU]

huh, looks like my team rank for T32 is 995 and I am about to slip past 1000! Haven't folded in a few years, now sounds like as good a time as any to get back into it. Won't be a big contributor, but it will atleast be a drop in the bucket.

[torin3]

huh, looks like my team rank for T32 is 995 and I am about to slip past 1000! Haven't folded in a few years, now sounds like as good a time as any to get back into it. Won't be a big contributor, but it will atleast be a drop in the bucket.

Welcome back! It is good to see you here again! :thup: :salute:

[petteyg359]

Want a 2.93GHz quad-core with HT and 3.6GHz turbo and 12GB RAM folding -bigadv?

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1060443 - $99 / month for the next 2 days :)

[freeagent]

I broke up my sli for now and have a 570 grinding away ontop of an e8600 :D

The other day I was running all of my gpu's and my 970 on A3 work, with the 465 running upstairs but it was way too hard on the juice for only 2k ppd more.. The upstairs machine is just a farmville box and it feels weird haveing such a good card in there lol. But its comfy working hard for us, so it can sit there for awhile.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8821/capturelme.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/capturelme.jpg/)

[the_cultie]

Welcome back! It is good to see you here again! :thup: :salute:

I'll second that. Great to have you back folding :D

['Cuda340]

Welcome back! It is good to see you here again! :thup: :salute:


I'll third that. Great to have you back folding :clap:


96824

[tuigi69]

Background:
Working with the team stats a few years back, our number of active folders was about 640. Now we're hovering just over 300 hundred (310 atm).

No matter how successful our team is at farming, we can't rely on a few super productive folders (ChasR, HayesK, SFU, Ned, etc.), to move our team away from the likes of TSC! Russia with their 800+ members. We need more actively folding teammates, and we aren't getting them.

We need to partner up with some (perhaps several), manufacturers and/or distributors, of PC gear. EVGA, Overclockers.net, even Hardware Canucks, have done this, all with great success.

Overclocking.com is a great name, but overclocking information is available (even on OCF), quite apart from Folding@Home. We don't get a lot of new folders, because they came here looking for overclocking help.

We need something that will attract new members, and there's nothing as successful as special or discounted prices on new gear. I know Gregorian chanting *seems* like it would attract hordes of FAH enthusiasts, but so far, it hasn't worked. :rofl:

What companies we make arrangements with, what those arrangements will be, and how they'll be implemented, are important details, for later. First, we need to decide whether we want to pursue this, or not. IMO, we either have to move forward with it, or accept becoming a team fighting to stay even, but ultimately on the decline.

I see the excitement that is so evident on the "new gear" teams, when the newest discounted or special gear offer rolls out onto their forum. We need that kind of excitement, to attract and maintain new members. FAH will always be about the cure, but new folders have a choice of thousands of FAH teams. Whether we like it or not, we are in competition for those new members. They are likely to only join one team. Right now, we're not being competitive with the best teams, in recruiting/attracting the new members we need.

Comments most welcome.

So which company shall we sell ourselves out to. I personally use quite a few MSI boards and vid cards as well as ASUS. Got a couple ASROCK to boot. Only half-kidding about this, though. We really do need to do something to draw in new folders.

EVGA has grown HUGE because of the way they sponsor their folks. You can earn 10 EVGA bucks a month for 250k of production which can be used to purchase stuff from their website. That's $120 worth of gear a year, which is a decent mobo. They also have "rig" competitions, with $1000 a month prizes. There are some ridiculously nice and expensive systems out there, that can put up some nice PPD. Especially the SR-2's.

Max PC has the name recognition and the following.

OCN has the $275/month drawings and sponsors??

HardForum has a core group of "server" folders, which attracts those high PPD folders. They all compete with each other and support each other. OMG, their top 3 folders put out more than our entire team. (The new 6903 and 6904's give some ridiculous PPD on multi-processor machines.)

I've personally being toying with the idea of putting up a website about my folding and putting a link for donations to support the cause.

Anybody here got friends or associates in the computer industry that could hook us up.

Also we might consider doing a sister website just dedicated to folding. Call overclockfolding.com or extremefolding.com or something along those lines.

[BEEAH]

I agree with tuigi69, the team needs to be more visible. It being deep in the OC Forums with no real front page of its own makes it easy to skip over. More OC'ers need to know this pushes your rig for stability testing and it all goes for a good cause.

How many members does OCF actually have?

[petteyg359]

I agree with tuigi69, the team needs to be more visible. It being deep in the OC Forums with no real front page of its own makes it easy to skip over. More OC'ers need to know this pushes your rig for stability testing and it all goes for a good cause.

How many members does OCF actually have?

http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/team_summary.php?s=&t=32
7688 members so far, and currently less than 300 active. We have the highest average daily team PPD / active member count, though.

[Adak]

So which company shall we sell ourselves out to. I personally use quite a few MSI boards and vid cards as well as ASUS. Got a couple ASROCK to boot. Only half-kidding about this, though. We really do need to do something to draw in new folders.


Reminds me of the elitist "pure as the driven snow" attitude of the amateur athletic movement. (aka the Olympics, prior to 1980's).

I don't think of it as "selling out", I think of it as affiliated with, or sponsored by. If the sports teams can do it, and other folding teams have shown it can work, why not try it?

Or we could just do nothing and wait until our team has less than 100 members, and ranked #20. At that point, we probably couldn't get a partial sponsor, if we tried.

I really like our new forum make-over, and the icons, too. We have a reliable and quick service (imo). We just do not have the key we need to increase our team numbers, yet.

I'll be back folding with FAH in about a week, (with a million points in SETI and Rosetta, too), but production will be very limited because of the Summer heat wave we're having in southern CA. Not a lot of folding help there, unfortunately.

[petteyg359]

I have a new Q9550 doing -smp 4 folding, and have switched the i7 930 on my web server from -smp 8 to -bigadv.

[Wicked_Pixie]

it's been a while... I know. :p

a few questions if I may (didn't want to start a new thread, so pardon my hijack :D ):

Do NV cards still reign supreme?
Can I fold with HD6970s (inbound) or should I return them for something else?

['Cuda340]

Do NV cards still reign supreme?
Can I fold with HD6970s (inbound) or should I return them for something else?

Good to see ya around WP !! :)

For folding right now, 2600K is king.........(For most of us anyway)

If your referring to gpu folding only.....Yes Nvidia is still the top producer

The 6970's will fold though. Return them if ya want :shrug:

[Adak]

Welcome back, Wicked Pixie


The pendulum has swung over to favor cpu folding, particularly with i7's folding the new -bigadv (big advanced), wu's. (And they really are big). Many of us don't fold with gpu's at all anymore, since the gain is offset largely by the loss of points from the slowdown caused by gpu folding.

Not to mention the extra power, heat and noise of gpu folding.

More projects now use a sliding time sensitive scale, so a quicker return means substantially more points.

Wonderful to see you back, WP!

[Wicked_Pixie]

Awww, thanks cuda :grouphug:

I had to google what a 2600K was. lol I'm really out of touch. :P
Read a bit @ folding forum and I got lost... really fast...

I'm just starting w/ 2 rigs:

1st one would be running an old X5650 and HD6970 in CF.
The GPUs might have to go to SETI if it doesn't fold well or I might just exchange it
after I play with it awhile. ;)

Last I heard in bigadv, having an SSD helps a lot. Is that still the case?

What's the RAM requirement for running bigadv via VM?



2nd rig is just a i7-930. Haven't decided on a GPU yet? Any good recommendations for performance/watt NV GPU?

[Wicked_Pixie]

Oh hey Adak! :salute:

Well, in that case, I will just stick with CF in my main rig and fold/crunch whatever project benefits from it the most. :)

Oh, and I can stick an old card on my 2nd one. :p

['Cuda340]

Don't feel bad i just had to google what a X5650 was. :p

As far as bigadv being helped by SSD :shrug: Can't help ya there i'm still an SSD virgin. :D

You should be able to get away with 4Gb ram running bigadv in VM, but as is always the case, more is always better......

I'm out of the loop as far as gpu folding goes.....Not much help to ya.

[Adak]

I don't have an SSD, but doubt they're all that useful. What IS important is, if you use Linux, do NOT use the ext4 file system! (use ext3 instead). With ext4, write times for data change from some bigadv wu's, change from just a half dozen seconds, to an hour or more!!

Is that insane or what?

[augie1111]

Don't feel bad i just had to google what a X5650 was. :p

As far as bigadv being helped by SSD :shrug: Can't help ya there i'm still an SSD virgin. :D

You should be able to get away with 4Gb ram running bigadv in VM, but as is always the case, more is always better......

I'm out of the loop as far as gpu folding goes.....Not much help to ya.Well, here's my 930 setup @ 3 GB's RAM. It's not even getting close to hitting the swap file.

As to an SSD, I have a 40GB but I can't use it ATM as it's just too small for my main machine. I'm going to transplant it to my dedicated 2600K folder and we'll see what happens after a couple of weeks of folding.

With all the volatility now with bigadv, I want it to settle down first before making any judgements.

[HayesK]

Welcome back WP.

The bigadv wu only require ~1.1 Gb ram, ~1.4GB total used by VM, but mine are set at 2.5GB just in case something bigger comes along. Be sure to use ext3 file system to avoid delay writing to disk at end of bigadv wu. Most of my dedicated folders are CPU only, running native Ubuntu 11.04. Have a few older rigs running windows GPU client and Ubuntu 10.04 VM CPU clients. The VMs running regular SMP client are set at 1GB, but only using ~350MB.

[Wicked_Pixie]

@ HayesK & Adak


Wait guys... hold on now. You mean to tell me I bought an SSD for nothing. :eek:
I could've sworn before I left, I read threads with people reporting
faster read/write on SSDs - anywhere from 30min - an hr. That was just
an ext. 3 thing? Holy crap! I missed the memo on that one. :p

Note to self: Read/ask before buying stuff... and do not open the damn box. Just return it.

[petteyg359]

Be sure to use ext3 file system

We've got ext4 now, ext3 is so last year... :p

What filesystem are you comparing ext3 to, where the other filesystem causes delays?

[augie1111]

@ HayesK & Adak


Wait guys... hold on now. You mean to tell me I bought an SSD for nothing. :eek:
No, not really, you can now boot W7 in 12 secs. or so though. ;):D Around here, I doubt anyone boots more than they have to to profit from an SSD.:) As to performance, I'll find out.

[HayesK]

We've got ext4 now, ext3 is so last year... :p

What filesystem are you comparing ext3 to, where the other filesystem causes delays?

Guess you are not running bigadv, else you would be aware of the problem with ext4 causing extra long delay at the end of bigadv wu, which is not experienced on ext3 or ntfs. Apparently SSD drives are fast enough to overcome the ext4 delayed write issue. Plenty of info out there in OCF and elsewhere...

[Adak]

@ HayesK & Adak

Wait guys... hold on now. You mean to tell me I bought an SSD for nothing. :eek:
I could've sworn before I left, I read threads with people reporting
faster read/write on SSDs - anywhere from 30min - an hr. That was just
an ext. 3 thing? Holy crap! I missed the memo on that one. :p

Note to self: Read/ask before buying stuff... and do not open the damn box. Just return it.

The popular Ubuntu 11.04 uses the ext4 file system, by default. So along came the bigadv work units, and the 60 minutes plus to write the data, and it seemed like an SSD was a critical speed up, since it did the data write up to the hd, in a flash. That was what you read about, I'm sure.

No one noticed right away, that if they used the same linux distro, and used ext3, that the write data times were just a dozen seconds or so for these wu's. It was unthinkable that ext4 could be so bad.

But it is. :facepalm:

ext3 (or NTFS file system on Windows), is just fine.

It always takes me more than a day, and frequently more than two days, to fold a bigadv work unit. So a 4-12 second delay while the days is written out to the hd in it's final form, seems OK to me. :thup:

[the_cultie]

Welcome back WP. :grouphug:

Great to have you back in the fold. That i7-930 should do nicely with bigadv. What clocks are you running on it?

[tuigi69]

Awww, thanks cuda :grouphug:

I had to google what a 2600K was. lol I'm really out of touch. :P
Read a bit @ folding forum and I got lost... really fast...

I'm just starting w/ 2 rigs:

1st one would be running an old X5650 and HD6970 in CF.
The GPUs might have to go to SETI if it doesn't fold well or I might just exchange it
after I play with it awhile. ;)

Last I heard in bigadv, having an SSD helps a lot. Is that still the case?

What's the RAM requirement for running bigadv via VM?



2nd rig is just a i7-930. Haven't decided on a GPU yet? Any good recommendations for performance/watt NV GPU?

Actually you're old X5650 would do pretty well if you can OC it. It's a hexacore with HT, so if you run linux, you can get the new 6903 and 6904. A 4Ghz OC will get you about 70k-80k ppd.

Radeons STILL do not fold well, so use them for something else or if you REALLY want to gpu fold then go with NVIDIA. GTX 460 or 560's are good balance between price/performance and heat/power draw. The 460's are about $140 ($100 on ebay) and once you OC them, will get you about 12K PPD for about 150w draw.

Currently I only fold on CPU's because they are the MOST efficient. (BTW, I will be putting up some GPU farms for sell in the next month or so.) You can build a cheap 2600K build for about $500 ($300 CPU, $100 MB, $100 RAM, HD, PSU.) THe 2600K are guaranteed to OC to 4.2Ghz, and most will easily go to 4.4-4.5GHZ. Some of them can even go to 5GHZ. At 4.4Ghz, they will get you about 35K ppd (on Linux) pull from about 150-200W. Recommend that you get a Hyper 212+ CPU heatsink to help keep the CPU cool. They will drop your CPU temps by about 10 C and they are MUCH quieter than the stock Intel HS.

As you can see, you can fold on CPU rig with same dollar layout, same PPD, BUT 1/3 less watts. For those that have high electricity costs and/or in high temp areas CPU is the preferred method of folding.

SSD only helps on Linux and that is if you install on ext4 vs. ext3. Install wiht ext3 and you won't need an SSD.

[tuigi69]

Reminds me of the elitist "pure as the driven snow" attitude of the amateur athletic movement. (aka the Olympics, prior to 1980's).

I don't think of it as "selling out", I think of it as affiliated with, or sponsored by. If the sports teams can do it, and other folding teams have shown it can work, why not try it?



Actually, I was only joking about the selling out. I wish we did have a sponsor so we could get more folks onto the team and get more people folding. EVGA has done a really good job with theirs.

[petteyg359]

Is an hour TPF on P2684 worthwhile, or should I put it back on just -smp 8 (where it was doing about 10K PPD)?

[Wicked_Pixie]

Thanks for the explanation, Adak. I suppose the SSD can be exchanged for a
2600K. :p


Thanks cultie! :D It's good to be back.
I was running 930 between 4.0-4.2Ghz when I had them up and running last.
Hopefully I can do the same during summer, or go slower.



@ tuigi69: I folded -bigadv units before on X5650 & i7's, but very briefly
before I had to ubruptly stopped folding. I was just confused with the ext. 3
vs. ext. 4 issue/SSD in native Linux. Thanks to everyone who cleared this for me and saved me some $$. You guys :rock:

Since I cannot go native linux on either of the 2 PCs, VM is my only solution.
While it is nice to have SSD, I don't think I really *need* it. So I may have to
return it and get something else... or stand-by for socket 2011. Decisions. Decisions.



Thanks for the welcome, y'all. :grouphug:



BTW, my shipment got stuck in limbo and won't get it until Monday. :rain:
It sucks cos I took half the day off so I can get them up by this weekend.
Now I have nothing to do for the next 6.5hrs.

[ihrsetrdr]

Guess you are not running bigadv, else you would be aware of the problem with ext4 causing extra long delay at the end of bigadv wu, which is not experienced on ext3 or ntfs. Apparently SSD drives are fast enough to overcome the ext4 delayed write issue. Plenty of info out there in OCF and elsewhere...


Friends don't let friends run ext4. :grouphug:

Edit- I'm not a 'file system' guy, as I just do typical desktop computing, and don't have any favorite file system; ext 3 still does me right, I've not seen any compelling reason to go with ext4 .

[Wicked_Pixie]

The popular Ubuntu 11.04 uses the ext4 file system, by default.


ext3 (or NTFS file system on Windows), is just fine.



I installed Ubuntu 11.04 alongside windows (same partition) since I was having trouble with VM. Now, does that mean it still defaults to ext.4 when it got repartitioned even though the disc is NTFS?
Is there a way to not have it default to ext. 4 when installing?

I guess I'll find out when the WU finishes and takes over an hr to write the stuff. ;)

[deadlysyn]

I think a front page presence would help the cause a lot. The hard part is getting the team motivated to do some writing. Some of you may remember there was a contest a while back. That turned into one article being written. Overclockers.com gets a lot of traffic, and if we can increase our presence there, we may see our numbers rise. The more awareness we can bring to light, the better. My very good friend AmbientFiction has also recently written a very good setup guide for the front page, I just need to get the time to work on getting it better formatted, since something was lost going from a PM to Wordpress.:bang head

I do also know that Overclockers does have a relationship with some manufacturers, I will see if I can talk with IMOG about seeing if one of them might be willing to sponsor us.:thup:

[Adak]

I installed Ubuntu 11.04 alongside windows (same partition) since I was having trouble with VM. Now, does that mean it still defaults to ext.4 when it got repartitioned even though the disc is NTFS?
Is there a way to not have it default to ext. 4 when installing?

I guess I'll find out when the WU finishes and takes over an hr to write the stuff. ;)

You mean on the same HD and sharing the same mbr, I guess. AFAIK, Ubuntu 11.04 uses only Linux disk format protocols, although it will recognize and read from NTFS, and maybe write to it, after giving you a warning that it may not be fully compatible with it. Your choices are ext3 and ext4.

Choose Custom Install from the setup options, if it doesn't give you a choice by default. Crazy, I just had 11.04 installed for the CC, and now I've switched back to Win7 to do some SETI and Rosetta crunching, and already I've forgotten the details of how I set up Ubuntu to use ext4. :screwy:

@Gixxerguy, SFU travels a lot, and hasn't been home much. Apparently, he's busier than a one armed paper hanger. That's what he was telling us in May and June.

[Wicked_Pixie]

I do also know that Overclockers does have a relationship with some manufacturers, I will see if I can talk with IMOG about seeing if one of them might be willing to sponsor us.:thup:

I wonder if OCF has any relationships w/ retailers like Newegg. They're vendor agnostic which is really great, and they have most everything we all need. With OCF benching, F@H, and other DC teams, maybe we have a better chance in landing a sponsor. Wishful thinking, I know... :p

You mean on the same HD and sharing the same mbr, I guess. AFAIK, Ubuntu 11.04 uses only Linux disk format protocols, although it will recognize and read from NTFS, and maybe write to it, after giving you a warning that it may not be fully compatible with it. Your choices are ext3 and ext4.

Choose Custom Install from the setup options, if it doesn't give you a choice by default. Crazy, I just had 11.04 installed for the CC, and now I've switched back to Win7 to do some SETI and Rosetta crunching, and already I've forgotten the details of how I set up Ubuntu to use ext4. :screwy:

Yes, it's sharing the same MBR. It didn't give me any warnings nor a choice in using ext.3 or ext. 4 ( if it did, then I missed it :shrug: ) It's ok. I will have to make changes in my set-up anyway - a couple of dedicated bigadv folders in native Linux and my gaming rig will have to go to other DC teams... see you in Seti/Rosetta as soon as I get everything done. It will be a little while longer. I have to find cases ( no longer allowed to set-up ghetto rigs w/ no cases) :-/

[Adak]

Having cases is probably a good thing. Keeps the toddlers and curious pets away from the moving parts and power.

I just finished up with SETI and Rosetta also for this year. I'm re-doing some hardware right now, and then I'll be doing FAH and World Community Grid.

I believe you have to choose the Custom Install, if you don't want ext4, with that version of Ubuntu.

[AMD_OCER]

Doh!!! ext4 :bang head

I setup a new 2600K @ 4757mhz and was happy to see the ~30 min tpf on a 6900wu..... then was like WTF is it sitting at 100% for an hour... the log was sitting at Done.... So HURRY up then and send it!!!!

Then I remembered reading about ext4 causing that... :mad:

re-installing 11.04 with ext3 now. :o Maybe this should be in a new thread :shrug:

[harlam357]

Hate to keep this discussion going in this thread.... but, I have Ubuntu 10.10 VMs running on ext4 and the write times at the end of the WUs seem just fine.

Is ext4 only an issue on 11.04?

Here's an example:

[07:07:03] Completed 245000 out of 250000 steps (98%)
[07:40:41] Completed 247500 out of 250000 steps (99%)
[08:14:02] Completed 250000 out of 250000 steps (100%)
[08:14:11] DynamicWrapper: Finished Work Unit: sleep=10000
[08:14:21]
[08:14:21] Finished Work Unit:
[08:14:21] - Reading up to 52713120 from "work/wudata_01.trr": Read 52713120
[08:14:22] trr file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] - Reading up to 47026964 from "work/wudata_01.xtc": Read 47026964
[08:14:22] xtc file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] edr file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] logfile size: 195270
[08:14:22] Leaving Run
[08:14:23] - Writing 100105302 bytes of core data to disk...
[08:14:24] ... Done.
[08:15:13] - Shutting down core
[08:15:13]
[08:15:13] Folding@home Core Shutdown: FINISHED_UNIT
[08:15:27] CoreStatus = 64 (100)
[08:15:27] Unit 1 finished with 62 percent of time to deadline remaining.
[08:15:27] Updated performance fraction: 0.616559
[08:15:27] Sending work to server
[08:15:27] Project: 6900 (Run 3, Clone 9, Gen 13)


[08:15:27] + Attempting to send results [July 21 08:15:27 UTC]
[08:15:27] - Reading file work/wuresults_01.dat from core
[08:15:28] (Read 100105302 bytes from disk)
[08:15:28] Connecting to http://130.237.232.141:8080/
[08:22:40] Posted data.
[08:22:40] Initial: 0000; - Uploaded at ~226 kB/s
[08:22:40] - Averaged speed for that direction ~226 kB/s
[08:22:40] + Results successfully sent
[08:22:40] Thank you for your contribution to Folding@Home.
[08:22:40] + Number of Units Completed: 13

[petteyg359]

Hate to keep this discussion going in this thread.... but, I have Ubuntu 10.10 VMs running on ext4 and the write times at the end of the WUs seem just fine.

Is ext4 only an issue on 11.04?

Here's an example:

[07:07:03] Completed 245000 out of 250000 steps (98%)
[07:40:41] Completed 247500 out of 250000 steps (99%)
[08:14:02] Completed 250000 out of 250000 steps (100%)
[08:14:11] DynamicWrapper: Finished Work Unit: sleep=10000
[08:14:21]
[08:14:21] Finished Work Unit:
[08:14:21] - Reading up to 52713120 from "work/wudata_01.trr": Read 52713120
[08:14:22] trr file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] - Reading up to 47026964 from "work/wudata_01.xtc": Read 47026964
[08:14:22] xtc file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] edr file hash check passed.
[08:14:22] logfile size: 195270
[08:14:22] Leaving Run
[08:14:23] - Writing 100105302 bytes of core data to disk...
[08:14:24] ... Done.
[08:15:13] - Shutting down core
[08:15:13]
[08:15:13] Folding@home Core Shutdown: FINISHED_UNIT
[08:15:27] CoreStatus = 64 (100)
[08:15:27] Unit 1 finished with 62 percent of time to deadline remaining.
[08:15:27] Updated performance fraction: 0.616559
[08:15:27] Sending work to server
[08:15:27] Project: 6900 (Run 3, Clone 9, Gen 13)


[08:15:27] + Attempting to send results [July 21 08:15:27 UTC]
[08:15:27] - Reading file work/wuresults_01.dat from core
[08:15:28] (Read 100105302 bytes from disk)
[08:15:28] Connecting to http://130.237.232.141:8080/
[08:22:40] Posted data.
[08:22:40] Initial: 0000; - Uploaded at ~226 kB/s
[08:22:40] - Averaged speed for that direction ~226 kB/s
[08:22:40] + Results successfully sent
[08:22:40] Thank you for your contribution to Folding@Home.
[08:22:40] + Number of Units Completed: 13

I'm on ext4 (Gentoo), and noticed a long delay on a 2684, but the 6900s have no delay. Are 2684 units exponentially larger, or did somebody just bug something up in the core for final writing on 2684 units?

[Wicked_Pixie]

I'm on ext4 (Gentoo), and noticed a long delay on a 2684, but the 6900s have no delay. Are 2684 units exponentially larger, or did somebody just bug something up in the core for final writing on 2684 units?


I have the opposite experience, but then again I cannot compare it to 26xx WUs.

I see delays in 6903 on ext4 (10.10 & 11.04) up to 1.5hrs. The latest one was almost 2hrs! I cannot change the ext file system on custom installation. Just gives me the option to resize the partition.

I think I'll try VM now, or maybe v7. :p

[Adak]

That ext file system change didn't work??

I'll get you step by step directions!

Well, Linux is not well known for step by step directions, but this describes how to make that change, (in a typically verbose manner). :

This is an install guide, but the info on selecting your file system, is in it.

Here is a rough guide to installing.
During the install setup process select various things pertinent to your location. IE Time zone and keyboard and language.
In the where to install screen optons are there to install side by side with other OS, use the whole drive (this wipes everything off). The last option here is called Something Else, in this one you get to choose which drive and partition to use. If you choose to use the partition that already has an EXT3 or 4 file system on in the box with Do Not Use change this to EXT4 tick the small box to format and then in the box Use as select / . if you have separate partitions for /boot /swap and /home these will need to be formatted as well. Click okay/forward/continue. A warning box will appear about losing data and changes being written to disk. Clicking Accept also mean these changes cannot be undone and the install goes ahead. After a while a prompt about Grub should appear accept the default unless you have an esoteric disk arrangement and want/need Grub somewhere else. A short while after this a prompt to reboot shows. Click okay.
If the install was from a CD you have chance to eject it.
If from USB you will need to change bios settings to put the USB after the hard drive. Voila a brand new install of Ubuntu.

Back-tracking slightly... If you already have an EXTx (x= 2,3 or 4) there is no need to format unless you want a clean install or if you change the EXT.

[harlam357]

I'm on ext4 (Gentoo), and noticed a long delay on a 2684, but the 6900s have no delay. Are 2684 units exponentially larger, or did somebody just bug something up in the core for final writing on 2684 units?

Have a p2684 going on an i7 930. Couple days before it's done... will have to try and remember to check the log this weekend.

[Wicked_Pixie]

Thanks for the ext3 tutorial, adak! :thup: :grouphug:
I'll give it a go after I finish re-building it.


Sorry for the hijack!! :o I didn't think it would go this far. :p

[turbohans]

Good thing I stuck with ext3 on my system!


When I installed a couple months ago all I had was a Ubuntu 8.04 disk and no blanks to burn a new one (11.04) so I just installed on ext3 and dist-upgrade'd it a few times hahaha

[Shelnutt2]

First has anyone tried btrfs? I wonder if that suffers the same fate? I image the slowness of ext4 came when they rolled out that one flush_write patched which killed its performance. It was a needed patch because it was a large issue in the server community. I don't know exactly what the patch did but it made the chance of loosing a write very small compared to what it was before. As a result ext4 write times increased.

I think a front page presence would help the cause a lot. The hard part is getting the team motivated to do some writing. Some of you may remember there was a contest a while back. That turned into one article being written. Overclockers.com gets a lot of traffic, and if we can increase our presence there, we may see our numbers rise. The more awareness we can bring to light, the better. My very good friend AmbientFiction has also recently written a very good setup guide for the front page, I just need to get the time to work on getting it better formatted, since something was lost going from a PM to Wordpress.:bang head

I do also know that Overclockers does have a relationship with some manufacturers, I will see if I can talk with IMOG about seeing if one of them might be willing to sponsor us.:thup:

Also my http://www.dccontests.com site is up. Its primed and ready to go for folding. Its not the prettiest and I'm working on that this weekend but I think my scripts and everything are good to go. I think I might offer a contest up just to test the site out and I'd be willing to offer my XP90-C I just replaced :bday:.

[dfonda]

The easy way around this (per Chasr) is to install to an ssd, the delay goes away.

[ChasR]

Interestingly, the bigadv ext4 delay doesn't happen if Linux is installed alongside Windows either. Same for Linux running in a VM with a windows host.

[petteyg359]

Does it actually happen at all anymore (if you're not on an old kernel)? Everything I can find suggests that a situational bypass for the delay was implemented way back in 2.6.30, and backported as far 2.6.28 by some distributions. Since I've only had a delay on one unit, I'm inclined to think that that project is a problem, while ext4 has been long-since fixed...

[turbohans]

Interestingly, the bigadv ext4 delay doesn't happen if Linux is installed alongside Windows either. Same for Linux running in a VM with a windows host.

That I can attest! I had no problems with ext4 in VMware on a windows host.
(I have 5200rpm hdd's too LOLz (ran raid before but not now))

[ChasR]

There have been threads about this since the debian base Linux distros moved to ext4 as the default FS and there still are. This is the most recent, started in March 2011.

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=17972

Does it actually happen at all anymore (if you're not on an old kernel)? Everything I can find suggests that a situational bypass for the delay was implemented way back in 2.6.30, and backported as far 2.6.28 by some distributions. Since I've only had a delay on one unit, I'm inclined to think that that project is a problem, while ext4 has been long-since fixed...

[petteyg359]

And the only posts mentioning kernel version are:

1. Kernel 2.6.38.7 saying a 268x unit was delayed
2. Kernel 2.6.38.7 kernel seems to not have delays (maybe that guy hasn't had many 268x units)

I'm still blaming 268x, because all the other projects aren't having any delays.