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Ivy
09-06-11, 07:29 AM
Well there is kinda a issue with stability but i have no idea its source, its mind busting. But the highest probability which may be causing it seems to be my Vertex 3 SSD because no matter how hard i tested the other parts, i saw no issue at all.

Setup:
Shuttle SX58H7PRO (ICH10R)
CPU: I7 990X (stock clock)
GPU: Radeon 6950 (currently at stock clock to check out stability)
RAM: 12 GB Mushkin DDR3 1600 MHZ (currently at stock clock to check out stability)
OS SSD: Vertex 3 MI 120 GB
OS: WIN 7 64 ULT

Behaviour:

>>>>The instability is extremely low, its therefore close to impossible to detect. And i can NOT force the issue to arrise, it may randomly happen, complete random.
>>>>I can NOT pin the issue down to a certain program or condition, it can happen at browser, desktop, game or whatever.. it does not matter.
>>>>I can NOT pin down the problem to a certain load condition. It can magically happen when the PC was in desktop idle mode and all of a sudden it might have a BSOD and then the system may show a critical failure in blue screen text. The PC was NOT working at all and for example i been away for many hours and then when i come back.... critical error but there was absolutly no program actively used.

A typically situation about its behavoiur is, the game freezes ingame, but maybe short time after the game still will continue to work for a few seconds or even min, and then it freezes again and that time its completly frozen. Then i try to move into desktop screen, and i try to close the program. I can move to the desktop screen but most of the functions wont react anymore, so i can not close the program. Then i try to release task manager, however. the screen just will stay black and it wont move at all. Sometimes when i wait many min, there comes a critical error in which is stated that it failed to load that items. The only thing which will help at that point is to power off PC and restart. Under some circumstances Kaspersky will be corrupted after, one time even the OS was apparently corrupted (blue screen) and then i tried to restore and then it worked again.

Those freeze or hang up issues are completly random, in average it may happen once every 12-24h but it can aswell happen 10 min after i start PC or it can aswell run 48h in a row without issue. The most dirty stuff about that issue is that it cant be pinned down and unable to detect, like a curse.

Program check:

The only program which could have been activated was Kaspersky Internet Security 2011 which is always running in background and might "update" itself automatically. In fact i had issues where Kaspersky after a system freeze, was corrupted and unable to repair itself. Then i had to reinstall the whole Kaspersky again, because it simply was corrupted.

RAM check:

I was running the RAM at 1600 MHZ for 1 month and some days ago i switched to standart clock. I was running Intel Burn Test for many hours at 10 GB RAM usage so it was extremely high load (the CPU always in theoretical 100% load). Same for Prime 95 although its not using all RAM. The RAM had no stability issues under massive load conditions. The Windows owned RAM test aswell always have passed. The only stuff i didnt use was "Memtest 86" because its not fully suitable for a X64 System with so many RAMs so i didnt bother.

Anyway, to increase stability i turned the RAM down to standart clock, but the issue still didnt go away, so most likely the RAM are not responsible at all.


SSD/HDD check: The OS SSD is a Vertex 3 which may have bad reputation at stability, and considering the completly random behaviour there seems to be a high risk that the SSD may be the cause of it. Which seriously would be a mess, for a piece that expensive its a NO GO.. I kinda feel like a labor rat (its ok to be a labor rat but not for that price), in term it truly comes up to that drive. I would not have paid so much if i knew about those issues. Additionaly it doesnt help that the Vertex 3 is a beta version (red light) with Firmware 2.02. From my view, nowadays, i would say that this drive is incapable to be OS drive because it may be a issue to way to many systems and a foolproof fix isnt known yet.

GPU check: From my experience, impossible, because in term the GPU will freeze then the system will completly stop to work (you can not switch to desktop menu because the impact is to high). In term its only slightly unstable then the AMD driver is very advanced and is trying to restore itself which always have worked in the past on older systems. So that behaviour is not GPU related however, i will now clock it down to get max stability on any spot.

Other Actions i might execute:
Increase the overal stability to the max level possible. I will now remove Spread Spectrum, and aswell i will remove Hyper Threading, that will give additional stability. HOWEVER, the intel burn test and prime 95 was tested including such conditions and still nothing detected at all. Because of the extemely hard to detect nature, it always need many days in order to test, its how i name it.. a mess.

Anyway, thats just my guessing, i totaly dunno what to do.

RGone
09-06-11, 12:16 PM
There have been a couple or so updates to firmware for the V3 and you might as well get the last one done to see if it changes anything.

Cigarsmoker
09-06-11, 12:25 PM
Yep sounds like the SSD is the problem. It's a pretty common problem with OCZ, Corsair, Kingston, etc that uses the Sandforce 2281 controller. Updating FW may (hopefully) help. Recommend going to OCZ SSD forum. You'll find people with similar problems there and hopefully you'll be lucky enough to find a solution.

Otherwise, don't pull your hair out until you look into this first. I know, I have a Corsair Force 3 120 GB that suffers from random BSOD. I did a simple experiment to test this. I took an old HDD, loaded Win 7 and a few programs on it. Ran the HDD in place of the SSD for a week, no random BSOD. After a week, swap the SSD with the HDD and voila! Random BSOD again.

RGone
09-06-11, 12:29 PM
. I did a simple experiment to test this. I took an old HDD, loaded Win 7 and a few programs on it. Ran the HDD in place of the SSD for a week, no random BSOD. After a week, swap the SSD with the HDD and voila! Random BSOD again.

Great advice and troubleshooting direction. I started to suggest such but most don't want to load winders. But for sure it will take that SSD out of the mix as a problem. Good tip.

Ivy
09-07-11, 10:53 AM
Thanks for the tipps and hints. So i guess its truly the SSD ;( And i enjoy its speed so much, kinda makes me sad because i know no alternate stuff to use which would perform the same. The Raptor HDDs are just barely faster than usual HDDs and very loud, and they cant even nearly compete with my SSD.

The Vertex 3 SSD performs at totaly crazy levels, i can make a full system scan while playing a game and i wont even notice any slowdown, and in just a few min the drive is completly scanned. On my old PC when i had HDD (pretty old and weak HDD) installed, it took me 5-6 hours. (!).

So i totaly dunno what a lover of performance should do.

Anyway, i did now disable Spread Spectrum and aswell HT, and i did open 3 different games at once and including browser (i permannently use) and now 24h after still no BSOD. There can be a small chance that the higher stability at fixed bus clocks may do the trick. Since its well known that some SSDs might react very sensitive to dynamic MHZ matters. However, until i was running the PC 1 week in a row, and completly stable, i dont trust it. So i can only answer it after 1 week has passed.

Flashing my Firmware is generally a action i try to avoid because if it fails then the SSD is destroyed and its my own fault, the manufacturer does NOT grant any warranty to it, not even if they personally released the firmware. In term i truly have to upgrade then i rather RMA the drive and let OCZ do it, so i dont lose any warranty.


Just one additonal question: In term i would have to remove the SSD, what is the second best drive i could use which will be 100% stable (i dont care the cost i just want to have the second best + STABLE).

Cigarsmoker
09-07-11, 11:47 AM
Ivy, you did the same mistake I did, bought a Sandforce 2281 based on glowing reviews and did not look at user reviews. Most review sites, except for Anandtech, never mention anything about random BSOD. Had I done my homework I would have picked up a Crucial M4 whose speed in all practical purposes is similar to my Corsair Force 3 SSD.

deathman20
09-07-11, 12:40 PM
+10 on the M4's And there prices are coming down and speeds are increasing with firmwares. Its a win win! :)

Makes me wish I waited 2 months like I was originally going to do for the drives that dropped $40 each :/

Computurd
09-08-11, 12:37 AM
truly a terrible problem for the SF drives.
Fortunately the M4 with the latest firmware is just as fast, and with any data, regardless of compressibility.

Ivy
09-08-11, 11:31 AM
What a mess, i did happen again. And my Kaspersky is once again corrupted.

Another BSOD, took like 2 days but now it crashed again. I see no chance to overcome, and have to remove that system drive and get the crucial m4 instead and install everything new.

What im gonna do with the old drive? i totaly dunno... Should i RMA it and describe the issue? They will say.. great. another moanie... send it back and say, it all works proper, they just praised it. Seriously... well i did order me the m4 now, it is just half the price from my Vertex 3 and might work proper. Why did i pay so much for that Vertex 3? Guess because the industry was doing massive advertisement and gave the drive golden reviews and such.

I really thank you for telling me about m4 and such, at least i can now fix it. although that was a truly terrible experience and it will cost OCZ a lot of image, because personally it will take me many years to get the trust back for that company.

Can someone tell me how im gonna remove the old OS from the old drive and intall on the m4? Im not sure how to handle that because i cant have the same OS twice but reinstall surely will work. Its the first time i have to execute that action and the OS was expensive enough.

Computurd
09-08-11, 01:20 PM
you could use an image based backup suite, such as Acronis to do the copy. Or you could use windows 7 built in image backup utility.
There may be some inherent issues with going this route though, as you might have some OS corruption. Your antivirus being corrupted may be an early sign of this.
I would suggest that you run another type of virus scanner that is free. Malwarebytes Anti-malware is a free utility that will pick up just about anything.
If there is no viruses detected then you can eliminate that as the reason you are having kaspersky issues. Usually viruses will attack your antivirus program so that is a chance that is the underlying issue.
However, if there is not a virus on there, and you can verify that by running another scanner, then there is probably corruption in your OS that was brought on by the BSODs.
Copying over the OS to another drive will merely copy the corruption, which is a huge bummer tbh.
This means total reinstall is your route, just pull off your most needed files.

there is an option that can help you to resolve file level corruption, provided that the problem lies with windows system files only.
I do not feel that is the case here as we see Kapsersky corruption, but for references sake, and maybe you can turn up other issues this way:

Elevate a cmd prompt to admin status
type in;
sfc /scannow

this will scan for operating system corruption.

deathman20
09-08-11, 01:23 PM
Just format the OCZ drive, secure erase via dos.

You can re-install the OS on any system if you have to call the help line your not changing any motherboards or anything like that you just had to replace the harddrive due to a fault which is the reason for the re install.

As for the drive.... RMA it. If you can RMA to newegg or the store you bought it from you might see if you can get a refund for the drive itself. If not RMA it, and sell the drive. People with certain spec systems have no issues with it, though it seems to be everyone that has the newer breed systems are the ones having the issues.

Ivy
09-08-11, 02:15 PM
Alright, the drive had aswell other issues such as when i restart sometimes the BIOS cant detect it. At times like that you wish you have a old school drive. slow as azz but stable. ;) Aswell there been some issues with boot.cmg missing which means i have to use F7 to realign the OS drive but dunno why the BIOS may lose track of it, it simply doesnt work with my system...

However, those issues ONLY appeared when the system had BSOD (or fail in detection after reboot), else it didnt happen at all.

I guess i reinstall so i am sure there is no corruption, might be most secure way in term it works.

The other files doesnt truly matter because i had only the OS on that drive, thats my strategy for having most secure setup. The integrity scan didnt find failures, however.

Computurd
09-08-11, 03:27 PM
smart move :)

Ivy
09-08-11, 05:03 PM
Just would like to add for those not so confident: .

I got 2 different SSD, one of them is dedicated to OS and the other for games. The OS drive is now at 1.2 TB writte and 2.2 TB read even if only 45 GB stored, so the load on such a OS drive looks insane. The game drive only got 170 GB writte and 233 GB read, although at the game drive is like 100 GB stored already.

So, if such a OS drive isnt 100% stable then "mess" is the only valid word for. ;) I truly hope that the m4 is finally stable, i will get it tomorrow and may the luck be with me on the OS reinstall (i just worry about the key).

Besides: http://www.crucial.com/support/ssd/ssd_end_of_hard_drive.aspx
I wish i could agree the line "SSDs lessen the risk data loss".
But maybe its the case for theyr product but not for any SSD.

And for my system they say that they "guarantee" that it will be compatible... so if it isnt i punch them in theyr face! :D
http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=SX58H7%20PRO&Cat=SSD

I mean, i have to take it easy.. but sheesh, i just hope it will work, so i can finally have joy at gaming.
Edit:

I did now install my m4 and all worked proper so far. The drive seems much more stable and no detect issues yet. Now some weeks of tests might reveal the truth, for now it looks much better and im happy i got ride of that old beta drive from OCZ. They should stop releasing beta crap, seriously. But its my first time i got me a PC SSD and i just had absolutly no experience and i had in mind that the SSDs, because they are out for many years already, should finally be stable, which wasnt the case.

Maybe the M4 can make me happy.

ciku
09-10-11, 03:08 PM
Unfortunately this is a common issue for ssd with SF-2200 series controllers. The only way to fix it is replace it :( It's a hit and miss though but you are not alone.

Ivy
09-11-11, 03:42 AM
The m4 still no failure at all, and i played with like 2 days in a row.

Just one question: How can i read smart data of that drive? Did Crucial release any tools for it? I was checking theyr page but cant find something. I just wonder its wear development.

Cigarsmoker
09-11-11, 05:20 AM
I'm glad you're stable. :)

RGone
09-11-11, 07:12 AM
The m4 still no failure at all, and i played with like 2 days in a row.

Just one question: How can i read smart data of that drive? Did Crucial release any tools for it? I was checking theyr page but cant find something. I just wonder its wear development.


Interpreting SMART Data on Corsair SSDs (http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=89316)

Sounds like a useless aspiration as things go today.

Ivy
09-12-11, 05:05 AM
Well its true, i do not find any smart data accurate apart from read and writte amount. And actually not even read amount but only writte amount i have interest into it. Because thats the only possible factor which might wear out the drive over time and most other smart datas are just extremely inaccurate or even wrong.

On my OCZ tool for example i had 120° Celsius, i swear that drive never got that hot else i would have to worry but its just wrong data.

Edit:
4 days after the drive still fully stable, even if i played every single day, so i say its 100% fixed yet, im happy. Although i have a second SSD which is a "Vertex 3 240 GB @2.08 Firmware" as a gamer drive but that one isnt causing failures, so only the beta 120 GB drive (which was previously OS drive) was affected. Messy but finally solved!