View Full Version : Doing Homework on a P4 Rig...Need a Little Help
ok, so I'm kinda liking the idea of being able to hit the in the mid 2GB range with an o/c'ed P4, and I'm thinking about building one. The problem is, I know very little about the P4 system architecture...the mobos, the RAM (or DDR?), etc. If I wanted to build a good P4 machine, w/ a 2.0 or a 2.2 chip (or a better one if you can recommend), what all would I need to do this? This would be a "bargain" system, so we're talking hundreds, not thousands ($)...
This is a homework thing right now...I'm not sure I have the time or the money to do it, but I would like to know just in case...I may do it in the next month or two :cool:
the bargain chips right now are the 1.6a and the 1.8a. If you look in the database, you'll see that the 2.0's and 2.2 aren't hitting too much more on avg than the DRASTICALLY cheaper 1.6a/1.8a models.
a 1.6a w/150fsb == 2.4ghz for $142!
pair that with a cheap SIS 645 board, add some pc2700 memory and you're ready to fly
Rob has exactly what I have to say. The 1.6a and 1.8a are the better Northwoods to buy IMHO. Their cheap and they overclock to very high FSB's and the 1.6a overclock to some what near the 2.0a chips.
Higher FSB, would clock the RDRam or DDR ram much faster, improving the overclock performance alot! I aim for high FSB...
which should I look at, the RDRAM or DDR (what is the difference?) and what board is the best for o/c'ing those 1.6a/1.8a chips? If I spend money on this thing, I want to fly...
I'm not a P4 user, so I can't speak for it. I've heard RDRam gives off better performance, but DDR can clock higher. But aim for board for then, ram. The board will determine which type of ram you have to go with.
If your going DDR Ram: Get Kingmax PC2700, that has to be the best stuff right now. Its rated for 166fsb CL2.5 (You should be able to get it to around, 150fsb with CL2 timings, and it'll definitely own)..
Yodums
Since you would want to have a 1.6A or 1.8A and oc it to 2.2 -2.4 –that would be running at 133 fsb- I’d recommend you to go with DDR since it’s hard to buy a PC 1066 RD ram and even harder to get a pc-800 run at 1066. At 2200-2400 I don’t think ddr will cause you any bootle neck and the ddr system will be competible with a rd system.
You can go with sis645. It’s cheaper and supports 533 fsb. You can see some reviews about sis here :
here (http://www.digit-life.com/articles/sis645/)
and here (http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=46051)
You can also go with 845D but it's a bit more expensive and doesn't support 533 fbs like the sis scipset.
And look here (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69482) . His got his P4 1.6a @ 2.133ghz w/ retail hsf .
You can look at my signature to see what I am using.
I am very happy with mine its been ver stable I have not rebooted for 4 day's now.
If you are looking for a 1.8a cpu I noticed gateway has them and with the $50 off coupon puts the price around $185 shipped.
Enter coupon code BA686 if you are interested expires 02/28.
http://www.necxdirect.com/hai/prod_page.html?key=0000165542&nonce=guest_gate
jdmcnudgent
02-26-02, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by takiwa
which should I look at, the RDRAM or DDR (what is the difference?) and what board is the best for o/c'ing those 1.6a/1.8a chips? If I spend money on this thing, I want to fly... definately go with the rambus, read here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020225/index.html
DDR PC2700 won't get stuck at high FSB where Rambus will crap out must earlier then DDR will crap out. I would say DDR now....
Esepecially for the 1.6 or 1.8
irajames1176
02-26-02, 11:28 PM
hello all my first post, but i've been lurking lots i finally decided to register, but anyways i have to disagree about rambus not overclocking as high, if you get a Abit TH7II mobo you can drop the multiplier on the Rambus to 3x instead of going 4x100=400 your goin 3x133=400 and you can up the fsb more, i have this board myself and i used the 3x multi with some samsung rimms and a 1.8a northwood, and even with the 3x multiplier on the rimms i still got better scores then ddr
oh yes and one more thing, it only costs about 160 bucks for a pair of 256mb samsung rimms right now
damn...there is more to this than I thought...:D
It was SOOO much easier to put together my P3 and Celly systems...I don't know if I am ready to take this challenge on or nor, there is tooooo much I don't know or understand yet...
Nothing's too much for an overclocker. Research is good..
Originally posted by irajames1176
if you get a Abit TH7II mobo you can drop the multiplier on the Rambus to 3x instead of going 4x100=400 your goin 3x133=400 and you can up the fsb more, i have this board myself and i used the 3x multi with some samsung rimms and a 1.8a northwood, and even with the 3x multiplier on the rimms i still got better scores then ddr
Yeah that's the way you oc with rd-ram. and What are your mem scores @3x133=400 . Would it be still better than ddr@133*4=533?
Originally posted by nucro
Yeah that's the way you oc with rd-ram. and What are your mem scores @3x133=400 . Would it be still better than ddr@133*4=533?
Ddr runs x2 the fsb. 133=266mhz.
The sis645 chipset lets you run +33mhz at 133fsb for 166mhz at 133fsb aka 332mhz ddr.
You can also run +66mhz from 100-119fsb.
If you want to see the mem scores look in the intel epox mb section.
Sorry, you're right .What I meant was 133*2. You have a nice ram doing 190 :burn: Looking at your scores Memory@166mhz is near to rd-ram score and @190 you pass the rd-ram score.
Talking about rd-ram, will 3x133=400 and 4*100, give the same scores in sandra?
irajames1176
02-27-02, 03:44 PM
yes 3x133 will give the same scores a 4x400, and the thing is since your running your ram at 3x133 your running it in spec and that means you can go higher with the fsb eg. 3x150=450 and so on if you want to go higher
Irajames is dead on with his assessment. Additionally, there are lots of Samsung PC800 RDRAM modules that will reach 1066, but not all will go that high. Also, a pair of 128 meg RDRAM will overclock better (on average) than a pair of 256 meg modules. Generally, two RDRAM will overclock better than four sticks (if only two modules are used, then fill the other two empty slots with dummy rimms provided with your mobo).
My feelings are, if you already own DDR RAM, then go with that, if you have to buy memory and you're not hurting for cash, get the RDRAM and the Abit or Asus i450 chipset mobo. If you're on a tight budget, get a mobo with the SIS645 chipset (like Epox or MSI) for $80 to $100 cheaper (then shop around for DDR, you might find some cheap used modules).
Than there is no need to worry for our 800 Mhz RD-RAM not doing 4x133. We can use it @3X133. But would't be giving us the same performance of a ddr system.
Why I don't see much 800 Mhz RD-Ram oc'd to 1066 or above? Is it becuase the 800 Mhz RD-Rams not capable of running @1066 or is the mobo not running above 133 fsb?
Why I don't see much 800 Mhz RD-Ram oc'd to 1066 or above? Is it becuase the 800 Mhz RD-Rams not capable of running @1066 or is the mobo not running above 133 fsb?
I think there are lots of people hitting 1066 with their PC800, you're just not seeing all of their posts. I for one, have the TH7II-Raid with the 1.8A and it's running rock solid at 2.4. I have 2 sticks of 256Mb PC800 ECC RDRAM that are running at 533(1066).
With the option of "Fixing" the PCI/AGP bus at 33/66 you can virtually rule out any of your peripherals as the culprit to a failed overclock which is very nice! Also like irajames1176 said, if you set your Ram Bus to 3x you can give yourself more room to overclock once you surpass the 133fsb mark. I am extremely pleased with my TH7II-RAID and my 1.8A. I've had it stable up to 2.6Ghz with the vCore at 1.85. I think at 2.1vCore I would hit the 2.8Ghz mark! That's fast. But if your system runs like mine, you'll want a nice watercooling setup to deal with the heat:)
Arch5
There are people doing 533 fsb and there are who can’t. Looks like clock generators for the rambus is the important point : link (http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=77909774&m=5300926483)
irajames1176
02-28-02, 05:31 AM
Yes clock generators can be a culprit, and so can your ram, i just got in a few samples of the 533mhz clock generators from texas instruments, i have yet to put them on but once i do i'll find out if it was my ram or if it was the clock generators holding me back, personally i think its my ram holding me back, its the high density one sided 8 device ram, so i'm ordering myself a pair of low density samsung 16 device double sided rimms and i'll see if i can compare them before i return the high density ones, this will also give me time to bring my vapo into the repair shop
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