Picking a distro and window manager - input needed

[thideras]

I've been debating what to use for a Linux distro on my main system and laptop for a few months. My desktop just got rebuilt (Gigabyte Z77, 2500k) and my laptop (Lenovo T61 with Intel graphics) has needed a reinstall for quite some time. The problem is, I don't know what to use as a window manager, and subsequently, a distro.

I mainly have experience with RedHat (Fedora and CentOS, specifically) releases, but I'm always willing to try something else. All my servers are running CentOS 6.x and have been for years. My desktop has been running Fedora 14 (Gnome) since release. I would still be using it if the system didn't decide to explode and if it didn't go EOL. I've been using Arch Linux on my laptop for a few months and I generally like it. I can do a flatten and reinstall in a few minutes. Issues are resolved pretty quickly and I can work with the operating system with little thought.

The problem I'm hitting is the window manager. I have no idea what to use. I loved Gnome 2 and it allowed me to work efficiently. I'm trying Gnome 3 (including fallback mode) on my laptop now and I just don't like it. It isn't as customizable as 2 and there are things I don't like, such as not being able to minimize application in the Gnome Shell. Fallback mode isn't working properly -- minimized programs go off the screen. Kind of neat, but useless. The UI looks pretty and, honestly speaking, I really like the base design, but that isn't what I need in a window manager.

KDE is interesting. It has the features and easily customized. The Windows-like "start menu" is horrendous and performance is abysmal, even with UI effects turned off. Before I put the SSD in my laptop, it would take a minute before I even got to the desktop, where XFCE would load in seconds. If I was forced to use KDE, I think I could get by, but I wouldn't enjoy it.

Additionally, if I go the Gnome/KDE route, I have to redo all the UIDs on my servers to allow Samba sharing to work since they start counting from 1000 now. This is a slight inconvenience that can be fixed with a proper LDAP server setup, but that seems to be a lot of work to get a window manager to function.

XFCE with the LightDM greeter seems like the perfect option. It is quick and Gnome 2-like in appearance. The only downside is that nearly everything has to be configured to work, such as taking screenshots or adjusting volume with the keyboard (etc). Again, while this isn't an apocalyptic-level problem, it is inconvenient. While I don't reinstall often, a reinstall gets exponentially more difficult and time consuming. The only problem I've hit is with multiple monitors. If this is my only salvation, I'll do it.

I simply want a window manager that I can easily multi-task on and that is easy to work with. I really don't give a crap about looks, as long as it is functional.

---

For distros, I really want to keep with a "rolling release" so that updates don't require a full reinstall of the operating system (especially in the case of XFCE). I'm not against going with CentOS, but I feel like I'm painting myself into a corner with the point releases.

If you use XFCE, I'm interested to hear what you've done with your install.

[petteyg359]

I've been using Gentoo on all my systems (two laptops, desktop, and server). I've always preferred KDE, and have never had any serious issues that weren't fixed with some Google time and a workaround. In 4.8, they've added taskbar "stickies" like Windows 7. I wouldn't use KDE on a low-power system, but I don't see how it could be slow on the system you're saying you've got. Maybe Gentoo's compilation-specifically-for-your-machine is actually effective :)

[thideras]

Sorry, to clarify, it is slow on my laptop. It is a Core2Duo (Wolfdale) and Intel integrated graphics. The graphics is what slows it down. Now that I put a SSD in, it only takes a few seconds to load all the KDE files while logging in, but XFCE is literally instant on the same system.

[Stratus_ss]

I actually am really enjoying LXDE, though it may need some tweaking... though its great.

Also have heard great things about Awsome DE, though thats another one that needs to be custmized

[JigPu]

If you're a fan of GNOME 2, you might give MATE (http://mate-desktop.org/) a try. As their About page puts bluntly, "MATE is a fork of GNOME 2." I haven't used it myself, but from what I've heard it seems to be just the ticket for those who were disappointed by GNOME 3.

JigPu

[thideras]

Honestly, I'd like to go with something a bit more mature. I saw this when Gnome 3 got released and have been keeping somewhat up-to-date on it, but I need my system to be solid. I don't mean to imply that it isn't stable, but it hasn't had time to prove it is.

EDIT: I read my post again and I'm thinking I might as well go with CentOS. I just want something that I can rely on. I've been dealing with instability on my main computer for months now, until I rebuilt it. It has been incredibly frustrating.

[Stratus_ss]

Honestly, I'd like to go with something a bit more mature. I saw this when Gnome 3 got released and have been keeping somewhat up-to-date on it, but I need my system to be solid. I don't mean to imply that it isn't stable, but it hasn't had time to prove it is.

EDIT: I read my post again and I'm thinking I might as well go with CentOS. I just want something that I can rely on. I've been dealing with instability on my main computer for months now, until I rebuilt it. It has been incredibly frustrating.

I am running CentOS on 2 laptops (a p4 mobile 1.7 ghz with XFCE and a C2D p8400 running gnome 2)... its a good choice for stability. You will need the EPEL repo if you want XFCE though.

I setup my own local repo and its been fantastic for all the testing and such that I do.... Combine that with yum priorities and your golden!

[thideras]

If I run CentOS, I'm going with Gnome 2. ;)

I'm going to wipe the laptop one more time, put XFCE on it and see if I can get it working like I want.

[habbajabba]

Xfce is super simple and has everything I need. In salineOS you are stuck with 4.6 though it is now at 4.10.
I use one autohiding panel at the bottom as a sort of quick launch incl a weather update and a couple free space checkers. A vertical one on the right for cpu, memory, network activity, quit, the xfce menu itself, plus a few launchers for my browsers and file managers incl the xfce task mgr-11 in all. The third is at the top and has task list, notifications and a clock. All are set to fixed normal width and the name fields were all left blank as the popup text was very annoying.
I've tried kde and it has some nice touches but I fail to see what the purpose of 500 widget options really does for me. Gnome is much the same and that is why I use xfce atm.
And as usual there are no icons at all on my desktop for the sake of my wallpapers and Wally which I had to compile and run using the qtsdk.

[thideras]

I think I'm going to bite the bullet, and go with Arch/XFCE. Got any screenshots of your setups?

[habbajabba]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/723/desku.th.png (http://img252.imageshack.us/i/desku.png/)
I had to unhide my bottom bar to get the shot. Not a very good one imo.

[johan851]

I switched from Gnome 2 to XFCE at work, making my Ubuntu install more of a Xubuntu install, and it was really easy. Took me about an hour to reconfigure stuff with multiple displays and workspaces. I was surprised, and it's faster than Gnome2, which had a tendency to bog down and go really slow with lots of windows open, even in classic (no effects) mode.

[habbajabba]

I would like to know how to switch shells. It would be good to try different distros with xfce. I ran Toorox which is gentoo with xfce from october, but the update process was a download make install process and I gave up on the portage setup as there were conflicts and manual config updates that I have not the time for. TG I had my root and home backups of saline. easy peasy
Fedora16 was nice and the update process is easy as hell, but once you install the official nvidia drivers you are stuck with your particular kernel. In saline I can update the video drivers all day long as the kernel is rock stable solid and doesn't need updating.

[thideras]

Switch shells or switch window managers? If you mean the latter, you could use something like LightDM (A login manager), which gives you a drop down box option for every window manager you have installed. If you mean the former, just change it in your profile or call it manually.

[thideras]

So, with my main system dead, no classes to attend, and generally nothing else to do, I decided this was a pretty good time to get the reformat done. I've installed Arch so many times now that I can do it without looking anything up online. I've learned "pacman -Ss" is very handy. I'm still running the super basic setup and I'll configure it later. I just have to slowly work through features that I'm "missing" and add them in. I've got the screenshot one added, which was pretty easy. I just added gnome-screenshot and added a shortcut for "gnome-screenshot -i". I haven't even touched sound yet, which seems to always be my bane. I also need to change the pointers. The stock ones are horrible.

Login times with this are basically instant. You hit enter on the password and everything is loaded. This laptop has never felt this fast. The only part that is slow is web browsing with tons of images, but that all comes down to the processor.

109647

I still have a long way to go, however. The configuration of the XFCE panels is first and the easiest. I'll go for the Gnome 2 look, where the menu/program shortcuts/status section is on the top bar and the programs are on the bottom bar. Then I need to add and configure Conky. I need to setup my Rsync script again, so I have proper backups. I can't even think of what else, but I know there is a lot.

I have to admit that this is going a lot smoother than it has for me in the past and is working a hell of a lot better than KDE or Gnome. I had Gnome on this earlier today and it was terrible. Every other time I logged in, no programs would launch and I'd have to log out and back in, playing the gambling game. Not to mention the horrid UI.

[thideras]

To give a whole overview:
The laptop is a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 that I've had since 2008. I've installed a Kingston 128gb SSD (rebranded Intel) to replace the slow (in comparison) 7200 rpm drive it came with. I'm using Arch Linux inside a LUKS encrypted partition. Once configured, the laptop will sync its data with my file server on the hour. Boot times are long than it takes me to type my LUKS password and login times are about as long as it takes me to remove my pinky finger off the enter key.

XFCE panels are configured almost exactly like I want them. I just need to prune extra programs from the applications menu.
Installed a new cursor (xcursor-flatbed).
Installed and configured ALSA, which worked great with very little configuration.
Installed and configured xmodmap to work with my Thinkpad buttons, which also worked very easy, thanks to this article (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_Thinkpad_T61). I had to map the volume up/down buttons to alsa in XFCE, but again, very easy.
I'm using xscreensaver with the "blank screen" option with all fancy options disabled (fading, etc). I added a key combination to immediately lock the scrren.
Power management is also configured and [hopefully] working. It is configured to blank the screen after a few minutes, which locks the computer. If the lid is closed when the power cable is connected, it blanks the screen. If the lid is closed and the power cable is not connected, it suspends.


All I have left:
CUPS
Conky
Rsync and cron scripts
Restore files from previous backup

The only thing I can't figure out how to do is to get my back/forward (XF86Forward, XF86Backward) working in Thunar. I use these buttons for everything, so it is annoying to have to use ctrl + left/right or click the button instead of just clicking it.

[habbajabba]

Thanks for the tips. SalineOS is not yet compatible with lightdm so I may have to try arch if for no other reason than curiosity. If I have to unplug my dvi cable though it probably won't happen.

[thideras]

Now that my laptop is reliable and I'm basically using it as my main system, it is time to try my hand at installing Linux to a UEFI system. I've never done this before and I'm still not completely clear on the instructions, but I'm taking very good notes. See you in a few hours (days?).

To tide you over until then, here is what I got so far.

109764

[JigPu]

Definitely let us know how it goes! I've been wondering about what pitfalls may need avoiding when going the UEFI route, but have been sticking with MBR since I don't really see any advantages for my setup.

JigPu

[thideras]

Well, I have to say that it went nearly smooth. I'm going to be writing up a thread here shortly that is going to be asking for help. I have it working*.







*Working meaning that I have to manually add the UEFI entry to the startup list every time I want to use it. Besides that, works great! Regardless, I really like UEFI booting as you select the OS, not the partition/hard drive. It just needs to be a bit more friendly.

I intend to write an arch how-to for this once I'm done because while I pieced it together, there certainly isn't a place that says "do this, then this...".

[thideras]

Here you go JiggyPoo: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7187938#post7187938

UEFI is the true destroyer of dragons. You don't need knights for this.