What about Norty, Voltage and Ram Combos?

Ok, I have a P4 1.7 Willy oc'ed to 2040 mhz.
Runs stable there but hot. core voltage at 1.8v.
This is on a Abit BD7 raid, raid enable (0).

My biggest problem is my ram.
I've tried three types of ram so far.
Crucial 2100 CAS 2.5 , PowerMem with Samsung 2700 chips, and OCZ which I'll admit wasn't any good (I won't count it in the rest of my story below).

Problem is my Crucial and PowerMem will both do 128 fbs if my fsb divider is set for DDR 200 (or 100 fsb) and I oc from there.
BUT if I change my fsb divider for DDR 266 (133 fsb) and oc from there I have NEVER been able to go past 120 with a stable system; WHY? (OCZ was so bad, I won't even count it!)

I have been using the Crucial 2100 CAS 2.5 DDR for several months now, and it works fine up to 120 at 266 fbs divider. But it won't at all past it, hanging my system at startup or as WinXP loads. Get GPF's and all kinds of stuff.

This past weekend I tried the PowerMem 2700, hoping I could get to 128 oc, starting at my 266 fbs divider, but I couldn't get it past 120 regardless to how I set the timings and or the ram voltage! Actually I trashed WinXP twice and had to reload a backup because the ram caused WinXP to produce some kind of error that I couldn't recover from.

My question is why can't I get my ram, any ram to oc my Willy P4 to 128 fbs oc, which I KNOW it will do if I start my ram at the 200 fbs divider? Why does it always stop at 120 mhz oc? I am using the Fixed PCI and AGP setting so my busses won't be oc'ed!

Also I am getting ready to order a P4 Northwood. (I have just ordered some Corsair 3200 DDR tonight.) So do you suppose I will encounter these same problems with my ram and mobo and with a P4 Northwood?

Finally about the cpu voltage: Since my Willy P4 runs at a little higher core voltage than the Northwood, and the mobo shows the higher voltage for the Willy; What does the mobo do to correct this and lower the voltage when I install my Northwood? I have read some about the Northwoods needing the extra voltage; But am I right to assume that the mobo will automatically lower my voltage choices, so I will still be stuck with having to mod my Northwood if I want higher voltages from it?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Mike
PS BTW, can somebody tell me again, exactly how to figure what my actuall DRR oc would be running, oc'ed, if I start oc'ing it from a 266 fbs divider?

That's alot of questions


Q.PS BTW, can somebody tell me again, exactly how to figure what my actuall DRR oc would be running, oc'ed, if I start oc'ing it from a 266 fbs divider?

A.If your cpu is at 100fsb and your memory at 266 just add 33mhz to you cpu fsb then double it. If your cpu is at 133fsb and memory at 266 just double your cpu fsb.


Q.Finally about the cpu voltage: Since my Willy P4 runs at a little higher core voltage than the Northwood, and the mobo shows the higher voltage for the Willy; What does the mobo do to correct this and lower the voltage when I install my Northwood?

A. A set of pins on the cpu also called vid pin's tell the motherboard what the correct voltage should be for the cpu.



Q.Also I am getting ready to order a P4 Northwood. (I have just ordered some Corsair 3200 DDR tonight.) So do you suppose I will encounter these same problems with my ram and mobo and with a P4 Northwood?

A.Maybe, maybe not, your problem sure does sound like the hard drive is running too far out of spec. rather than the memory.
Maybe the pci/agp lock isn't working *shrugs* or you are somehow locking it at 1/3.

Have you tried not locking the pci/agp bus? 120 is a common point for the pci divider to change from 1/3 at 119 to 1/4 at 120.
Seem like too much of a coincidence to me.

"That's alot of questions "

No kidding? I've been hoping to avoid this......... <shrug>
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"Q.PS BTW, can somebody tell me again, exactly how to figure what my actuall DRR oc would be running, oc'ed, if I start oc'ing it from a 266 fbs divider?

A.If your cpu is at 100fsb and your memory at 266 just add 33mhz to you cpu fsb then double it. If your cpu is at 133fsb and memory at 266 just double your cpu fsb."

Ok for example I'm runng my memory at 266 mhz from my BIOS. I oc it 20 mhz which raises my cpu 20 mhz X the multiplier of my cpu, which is 17. This gives my cpu a speed of 2040 mhz. Now, my ram is runnning at 160 mhz; Right? (100 cpu fsb, plus a 20 mhz ram oc for the 266 setting which is doubled to 40 mhz; giving me a total of 160 mhz for my ram; Right?)
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"Q.Finally about the cpu voltage: Since my Willy P4 runs at a little higher core voltage than the Northwood, and the mobo shows the higher voltage for the Willy; What does the mobo do to correct this and lower the voltage when I install my Northwood?

A. A set of pins on the cpu also called vid pin's tell the motherboard what the correct voltage should be for the cpu."
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I kind'of figured that was what the pin mod was all about. I just hadn't read much on it yet.
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"Q.Also I am getting ready to order a P4 Northwood. (I have just ordered some Corsair 3200 DDR tonight.) So do you suppose I will encounter these same problems with my ram and mobo and with a P4 Northwood?

A.Maybe, maybe not, your problem sure does sound like the hard drive is running too far out of spec. rather than the memory.
Maybe the pci/agp lock isn't working *shrugs* or you are somehow locking it at 1/3.

Have you tried not locking the pci/agp bus? 120 is a common point for the pci divider to change from 1/3 at 119 to 1/4 at 120.
Seem like too much of a coincidence to me."



Well I wasn't sure. Supposedly my crucial ram is *supposed* to be out of its' oc'ing ability at the speed i am oc'ing it. (That's a pretty good oc on my Crucial 2100 CAS 2.5 DDR! And it's runnng at the most relaxed settings I can run it at.)

I never really thought about changing my PCI AGP divider from fixed. I just thought the thing *supposed* to work........ But since you mentioned it, 20 mhz over is a change-over from 1/3 to 1/4 dividers. I could possibly tinker along those lines with the Northwood and Corsair 3200.

Which brings me to the obvious question; I was running at 128 mhz fsb, (oc'ed 28 mhz) with my ram set to 100 fbs (200DDR). My system would run there but not at 20 mhz oc'ed; Why would you suppose this? Shouldn't I have been running more out of sync there, since that would equal 42.6 mhz PCI buss speed?

Cheers,
Mike

The beleif that the pci dividers change at 133 is not always true 119-1/3, 120-1/4 is how many motherboards are set up. 40mhz pci is pretty high and many mfgs set it at that so from 120-133 the pci bus is slighlty underclocked so you don't have problems.

On many boards it is easy to tell this that use settings like 3:4, 4:3 ect. If when you cross from 119 to 120 the cpu/mem ratio options change from 3:4 to 4:5 then that is also the point the pci divder is changing as the 3 in the 3:4 stands for a 1/3 pci divider.

I have never worked with a intel board that has asynchronous memory settings that is just stated as 266 rather than a ratio like 3:4. When you hit 133fsb the memory is running 266mhz with a 1:1 ratio anyway and to boost it beyond that would be 333mhz.

Your board confuses the heck out of me

Anyway from with the cpu running between 100 and 119fsb and the memory at the 266 setting it is pretty safe to assume the memory is running at the cpu fsb speed +33mhz. Beyond 119mhz I have no idea what would actually be happening.

If your board is changing to a 1/4 divider at 120 then no 128 mhz fsb would not make it more out of spec but closer to being in spec.

"The beleif that the pci dividers change at 133 is not always true 119-1/3, 120-1/4 is how many motherboards are set up. 40mhz pci is pretty high and many mfgs set it at that so from 120-133 the pci bus is slighlty underclocked so you don't have problems."

Well you just taught me something! -- Thanks!
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"On many boards it is easy to tell this that use settings like 3:4, 4:3 ect. If when you cross from 119 to 120 the cpu/mem ratio options change from 3:4 to 4:5 then that is also the point the pci divder is changing as the 3 in the 3:4 stands for a 1/3 pci divider.

I have never worked with a intel board that has asynchronous memory settings that is just stated as 266 rather than a ratio like 3:4. When you hit 133fsb the memory is running 266mhz with a 1:1 ratio anyway and to boost it beyond that would be 333mhz.

Your board confuses the heck out of me."


Well i think my own board is confusing me now, but I see where you're coming from....

Actually my Abit BD7 mobo *supposed* to have a BIOS setting that *FIXES* or sets the PCI and AGP buss to a constant 33/66 mhz regardless to the other ratios. Or at least that's the way i understood it. (All this along with my related problems is getting me confused as to just actually what is going on with my system.)

Anyhow I also have the choice of choosing the 1/4 or 1/3 dividers for my PCI/AGP buss, and it gives the mhz those busses would be running according to any oc I might do, *IF* I am not running in the *FIXED* mode. Overall it's a sweet deal, *IF* it's working for me. I just naturally thought it was and never even considered it might not be, thus putting me out of spec. You just raised the possibility and it kind'of hit me, as yeah you got a point.........
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"Anyway from with the cpu running between 100 and 119fsb and the memory at the 266 setting it is pretty safe to assume the memory is running at the cpu fsb speed +33mhz. Beyond 119mhz I have no idea what would actually be happening."

Well if what you say holds true and it's not changing, then I'm running too far out of spec, over 40 mhz for PCI. I certainly can try to lower this by choosing the 1/4 divider when I start upgrade later on this week. And we'll just see what's going on.

I don't even think it worth trying with the Crucial ram, because it's at its' limits right now.

I've ordered a 512 meg stick of Corsair 3200 from Newegg, and I've got to return the stick of PowerMem to Z-buy. They sold me the stick as being Samsung, but only the chips are. Anyhow I'm tired of taking chances with ram, since I've had so many problems with ram lately (a whole different story!) and trying to figure this problem we are discussing now. It's just better to get something you know will work.

Anyhow in place(exchange) of the stick of PowerMem ram, I'm gonna get some kind of Northwood P4, either a 1.6 or 1.8 if the price comes down from their site. I'm still debating on which of the 2 would better serve my oc'ing needs with this mobo. I still have to get a little extra cooling for my case though if I do much oc'ing.(Well I already had several cooling choices, it's just a matter of installing what I want.) Other than that, if my mobo stays together and has no real problems, I'll be set with this setup untill sometime next year, about this time, hopefully. I would have liked to have gotten over 2.5 out of my P4 with some decent memory bandwith though.
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"If your board is changing to a 1/4 divider at 120 then no 128 mhz fsb would not make it more out of spec but closer to being in spec."

True, but obviously something going amiss at 120 because I've never been able to go further starting with the 133/266 DDR cpu setting. But OTOH, as I said, I can go to 128, which I figure is my cpu's limit, if I start out at 100/200 DDR cpu speed, and oc to 128 from there. Go figure that one....? it's got me......?

Cheers and Thanks,
Mike

Hey Placid,
Go here and read about my experience today, changing over to a P4 1.8 norty.

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=92505

It's a hum-dinger!

Anyhow you was right about the dividers. That fixed 33/66 PCI/AGP must've been off or not working or something, because I didn't have any real ram problems once I went to the 1/4 divider. Didn't get my Corsair ram either, Newegg was out and I had this cheaper stick of Samsung on a generic board, PowerMem. Well I guess the Corsair didn't matter because I'm not gonna even come close to using up what oc'ing ability my ram has now. Geez for that matter, I could've almost stayed with the Crucial 2100.

Anyhow just letting you know, and to say thanks for the tips.
Good read to Batboy, if you want to read it.

Cheers,
Mike