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first time builder
- Thread starter newguy
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #2
upon reflection of my above post, i realize it is quite general. I also see that there are many forum users who are very knowledgeable. Any tips for a newguy would really be appreciated, i am sure you all started somewhere too....thanks again
New System
Just finished my new system:
Intel P4/1.8A (L2 512KB) w/ Swiftech 478 HSF
Asus P4S533 mainboard
Corsair PC3000C2 CAS2 XMS 512MB DDR memory
Antec PLUS1080B with True430W Case/PSU
Leadtek Ti4400 128MB GPU
Wester Digital WD1200JB 7200RPM 8MB cache HDD
Lite On 40x12x48 CDRW / Lite On 16x DVD-ROM
Add SB Audigy card for sound (I use Audigy Platinum EX).
All of the above represnt the best $$$ for performance.
System runs @ 2.65GHz 100% stable.
Just finished my new system:
Intel P4/1.8A (L2 512KB) w/ Swiftech 478 HSF
Asus P4S533 mainboard
Corsair PC3000C2 CAS2 XMS 512MB DDR memory
Antec PLUS1080B with True430W Case/PSU
Leadtek Ti4400 128MB GPU
Wester Digital WD1200JB 7200RPM 8MB cache HDD
Lite On 40x12x48 CDRW / Lite On 16x DVD-ROM
Add SB Audigy card for sound (I use Audigy Platinum EX).
All of the above represnt the best $$$ for performance.
System runs @ 2.65GHz 100% stable.
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2002
- Location
- North East, MD
What processor do you want to get?
I am also building for the first time, and have learned a lot here. So far this is what i am going with:
POWMAX 300w PS @ 55.00 w/case (already bought)
P4 1.6a 'northwood' @ 136.00 shipped
asus p4s533 @ 115.00 shipped
256mb pc2100 samsung ddr @ 49.00 (already bought)
32x cd-rw @ 49.00 (already bought)
Gainward 64mb GeForce4 Ti 4200 3.5 ns @ 161.00 shipped
Maxtor 40 gb 7200 rpm ata133 @ 78.00 shipped
1 intake,1 exhaust (2 exhaust counting PS)
Win XP Home/Pro/Win 2000 (not sure, any advice)
Good luck, you should find a lot of help here in the forums
POWMAX 300w PS @ 55.00 w/case (already bought)
P4 1.6a 'northwood' @ 136.00 shipped
asus p4s533 @ 115.00 shipped
256mb pc2100 samsung ddr @ 49.00 (already bought)
32x cd-rw @ 49.00 (already bought)
Gainward 64mb GeForce4 Ti 4200 3.5 ns @ 161.00 shipped
Maxtor 40 gb 7200 rpm ata133 @ 78.00 shipped
1 intake,1 exhaust (2 exhaust counting PS)
Win XP Home/Pro/Win 2000 (not sure, any advice)
Good luck, you should find a lot of help here in the forums
CPFitz14 said:
RE: O/S
Get WinXP only, W2K is outdated by 8 month by now.
If you need a real good system and planning some network and/or multiuser environment - get Pro version (imo that's the only version to go, yet since Pro and Home use the same kernel it shouldn't be too much of a diference).
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Location
- The bush in B.C. Canada
If your who I think you are your a bearings guy.If your trying to narrow your choices down,from say running rambus opposed to ddr that helps.If your not yet wanting to O.C.,but want that door left open that helps too.
It seems the fade is to take a 1.6 northwood up to 2.2,but if your starting with a 2.0 then a Asus P4T-E,P4T533-C,are good choices or a Abit TH7-II.All these boards have the Intel 850 chipset which from I gather is the way to go.
The next issue is the ram PC800 is the norm but they've got 1066mhz now but not every board likes it(?).But if you buy Samsung you should be alright,keep in mind if you want ECC or not.Apparently you should get double sided 16-bit.
Also decide on your HS/F,keep in mind some of these units give off leaf-blower noise.From what I've read a not bad choice is a volcano-7 from thermaltake.Next P4's love juice so if you ask me a generic 300W power-supply ain't good enough,get a better Pws.
Any dissension in my info is fine by me as I'm not a Intel guy right now.Just know a guy thats also intrested in this subject.
It seems the fade is to take a 1.6 northwood up to 2.2,but if your starting with a 2.0 then a Asus P4T-E,P4T533-C,are good choices or a Abit TH7-II.All these boards have the Intel 850 chipset which from I gather is the way to go.
The next issue is the ram PC800 is the norm but they've got 1066mhz now but not every board likes it(?).But if you buy Samsung you should be alright,keep in mind if you want ECC or not.Apparently you should get double sided 16-bit.
Also decide on your HS/F,keep in mind some of these units give off leaf-blower noise.From what I've read a not bad choice is a volcano-7 from thermaltake.Next P4's love juice so if you ask me a generic 300W power-supply ain't good enough,get a better Pws.
Any dissension in my info is fine by me as I'm not a Intel guy right now.Just know a guy thats also intrested in this subject.
Last edited:
...
Totally agree with the previous reply.
First, decide what you wanna go DDR or RDRAM.
My personal preference after hours of research that by now high end DDR kicks existing RDRAM.
On my machine using Corsair XMS PC3000 CAS2 512MB stick, Sandra posts 30% increase over PC800. Assuming that PC1066 theoretically shall provide 33% up over PC800 (133MHz bus over 100MHz bus), so if you wait a few months for certified PC1066 you would be able to get up to 3% increase over existing PC3000 DDR memory. Yet it will come aprox. double price of what you pay for the high end DDR.
So go figure...
Once you decided DDR/RDRAM question, get one of the boards, my recommendations:
Asus P4S533 for DDR
Asus P4T533-C for RDRAM
Re: CPU - It is worth to pay an additional $30 for Pentium 4 1.8A (L2 512K) NorthWood.
I was able to get 100% stable rig with the STOCK FAN running at 2680MHz (using 1.8A and Corsair PC3000). CPU tends to heat up a little (3 hour full load - 53*C max), so if you want to run cooler than that get good HSF. For about $35 you can get Volcano 7+, if you want to have max flexebility and the best HSF and Air Cooler available get Swiftech MCX478 it would cost about $80 (Definetely get rheostat that sold separately to control Fan Speed, i.e. noise).
I would recommend Western Digital 100GB or 120GB Special Edition that has 8MB cache - the fastest drive available today.
RE: Video - soend extra $20+ but buy GeForce Ti4400, it really worth it to get full scale performance of Ti4600 for few more $$ than lower end Ti4200.
Good Luck
Totally agree with the previous reply.
First, decide what you wanna go DDR or RDRAM.
My personal preference after hours of research that by now high end DDR kicks existing RDRAM.
On my machine using Corsair XMS PC3000 CAS2 512MB stick, Sandra posts 30% increase over PC800. Assuming that PC1066 theoretically shall provide 33% up over PC800 (133MHz bus over 100MHz bus), so if you wait a few months for certified PC1066 you would be able to get up to 3% increase over existing PC3000 DDR memory. Yet it will come aprox. double price of what you pay for the high end DDR.
So go figure...
Once you decided DDR/RDRAM question, get one of the boards, my recommendations:
Asus P4S533 for DDR
Asus P4T533-C for RDRAM
Re: CPU - It is worth to pay an additional $30 for Pentium 4 1.8A (L2 512K) NorthWood.
I was able to get 100% stable rig with the STOCK FAN running at 2680MHz (using 1.8A and Corsair PC3000). CPU tends to heat up a little (3 hour full load - 53*C max), so if you want to run cooler than that get good HSF. For about $35 you can get Volcano 7+, if you want to have max flexebility and the best HSF and Air Cooler available get Swiftech MCX478 it would cost about $80 (Definetely get rheostat that sold separately to control Fan Speed, i.e. noise).
I would recommend Western Digital 100GB or 120GB Special Edition that has 8MB cache - the fastest drive available today.
RE: Video - soend extra $20+ but buy GeForce Ti4400, it really worth it to get full scale performance of Ti4600 for few more $$ than lower end Ti4200.
Good Luck
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Location
- Lansdowne, VA
Re: ...
Umm...DDR is a joke for a P4 system above 2.0Ghz. PC1066 is a reality *now* and has been for a while. If you bought Samsungs like most everyone else did you would be able to take it to 533 and beyond.
PC3000 barely gets to PC800/400. Does worst than PC800/533, and a lot worst than PC1066/533. I'm talking real applications not sandra synthetic. Let's not take into account that DDR is only 46% effective, while RDR is 75% effective. Your actual bandwidth goes way down on DDR.
DMI+RY said:
Umm...DDR is a joke for a P4 system above 2.0Ghz. PC1066 is a reality *now* and has been for a while. If you bought Samsungs like most everyone else did you would be able to take it to 533 and beyond.
PC3000 barely gets to PC800/400. Does worst than PC800/533, and a lot worst than PC1066/533. I'm talking real applications not sandra synthetic. Let's not take into account that DDR is only 46% effective, while RDR is 75% effective. Your actual bandwidth goes way down on DDR.
...
Hmmm,
Where did you get all that info?
I agree that Sandra's synthetic benches are not reflect real life situations.
Still, RDRAM lags way beyond even the slowest DDR PC2100.
Regarding the bandwidth, new PC1066 runs on 533MHz vs new DDR400 runs on 400MHz. According to this it's like 33% advantage for RDRAM bandwidthwise.
Check the access time, RDRAM 32ns vd DDR 6ns?
Here we go, 533% advantage for DDR?
Even though my rig running equivalent to DDR370 makes standard PC800 by 25-35%.
Another thing, as you know, RDRAM sticks are very sensitive for overclocking.
Prove me wrong.
Peace.
Hmmm,
Where did you get all that info?
I agree that Sandra's synthetic benches are not reflect real life situations.
Still, RDRAM lags way beyond even the slowest DDR PC2100.
Regarding the bandwidth, new PC1066 runs on 533MHz vs new DDR400 runs on 400MHz. According to this it's like 33% advantage for RDRAM bandwidthwise.
Check the access time, RDRAM 32ns vd DDR 6ns?
Here we go, 533% advantage for DDR?
Even though my rig running equivalent to DDR370 makes standard PC800 by 25-35%.
Another thing, as you know, RDRAM sticks are very sensitive for overclocking.
Prove me wrong.
Peace.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Location
- Lansdowne, VA
Re: ...
First look here: http://overclockers.com/articles587/
Scroll down to where Joe uses PC1066, PC3000, and an XP on PC3000. This is using an ES Willie. A Northwood would see 5-10% increase in performance over the Willie.
As for latency. The chart goes something like this, from slowest to fastest.
PC800@100
DDR1600
DDR2100
PC800@133
DDR2400
PC1066
DDR3000
DDR3200
For bandwidth it's like this.
DDR1600
DDR2100
DDR2400
DDR3000
DDR3200
PC800
PC1066
You'll note I put PC800 ahead of DDR3200. That's because DDR is only about 46% effective whereas RDR is 75%. There's also the fact that the more RDR modules you have, the higher your latency. However, most mobo makers now stagger their RIMM slots so it's a none issue.
I don't see RDR being any more sensitive to overclocking than DDR. 33% increase is normal for both with 50% increase being more rare. Generally the reason why RDR doesn't overclock as well is because of the memory controller. Solder in a new one(as some dual prestonia people do) and you're go.
One more thing. There's a difference between latency and rated speed. Your 6ns DDR means it is rated at 166FSB(1000/X nanoseconds = Y MHz). It's not the memory latency. DDR333's latency is more like 25-some nanoseconds.
First look here: http://overclockers.com/articles587/
Scroll down to where Joe uses PC1066, PC3000, and an XP on PC3000. This is using an ES Willie. A Northwood would see 5-10% increase in performance over the Willie.
DMI+RY said:Hmmm,
Where did you get all that info?
I agree that Sandra's synthetic benches are not reflect real life situations.
Still, RDRAM lags way beyond even the slowest DDR PC2100.
Regarding the bandwidth, new PC1066 runs on 533MHz vs new DDR400 runs on 400MHz. According to this it's like 33% advantage for RDRAM bandwidthwise.
Check the access time, RDRAM 32ns vd DDR 6ns?
Here we go, 533% advantage for DDR?
Even though my rig running equivalent to DDR370 makes standard PC800 by 25-35%.
Another thing, as you know, RDRAM sticks are very sensitive for overclocking.
Prove me wrong.
Peace.
As for latency. The chart goes something like this, from slowest to fastest.
PC800@100
DDR1600
DDR2100
PC800@133
DDR2400
PC1066
DDR3000
DDR3200
For bandwidth it's like this.
DDR1600
DDR2100
DDR2400
DDR3000
DDR3200
PC800
PC1066
You'll note I put PC800 ahead of DDR3200. That's because DDR is only about 46% effective whereas RDR is 75%. There's also the fact that the more RDR modules you have, the higher your latency. However, most mobo makers now stagger their RIMM slots so it's a none issue.
I don't see RDR being any more sensitive to overclocking than DDR. 33% increase is normal for both with 50% increase being more rare. Generally the reason why RDR doesn't overclock as well is because of the memory controller. Solder in a new one(as some dual prestonia people do) and you're go.
One more thing. There's a difference between latency and rated speed. Your 6ns DDR means it is rated at 166FSB(1000/X nanoseconds = Y MHz). It's not the memory latency. DDR333's latency is more like 25-some nanoseconds.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Location
- Lansdowne, VA
The reason why I can't give you actual latency values is because it scales with the processor. Faster processor can handle memory more efficiently through various caching, prefetch, and whatever tricks they have.
The faster your processor the better(faster/less) your overall latency.
The faster your processor the better(faster/less) your overall latency.
- Thread Starter
- #15
thanks for all the info. here is what i am looking at building. pls feel free to add any comments, good or bad:
ASUS P4T533-C
INTEL P4 2.0 GHz C/W 512 CACHE
256MB RAMBUS PC800 RIMM ECC
Maxtor 60GB HDD
Volcano hs and fan
asus cdr/rw(already have)
Radeon 7200 PCI (for now, already have it)
Thanks for the feedback
ASUS P4T533-C
INTEL P4 2.0 GHz C/W 512 CACHE
256MB RAMBUS PC800 RIMM ECC
Maxtor 60GB HDD
Volcano hs and fan
asus cdr/rw(already have)
Radeon 7200 PCI (for now, already have it)
Thanks for the feedback
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Location
- The bush in B.C. Canada
Mospead I love the rig in your sig,somehow I don't think thats the only hardware you own.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Location
- Lansdowne, VA
Actually, it is.
Recently I had a:
[email protected] on the stock HS/F
P4T-E BIOS revision P4T533-C 1003.002
ATi 8500 128MB
Same as T-Bird really
Before that I had:
T-bird [email protected] on water
A7A266
ATi AIW Radeon
Seagate SCSI 34GB 10K RPM
IBM T85D 18" LCD monitor
Before that(This is my baby):
Dual PIII 600E@800 on water
P2B-DS coppermine revision
Video:
Videologic Neon250
Elsa GeForce Quadro
GeForce GTS
Matrox G400 dualhead
Ati AIW Radeon
Voodoo4500
Sound:
Aureal 2500
Diamond Monster Sound M400
SBLive! w/ the Live! Drive
Hercules GTXP
M-Audio Audiophile 24/96
M-Audio Delta 1010
Philips Acoustic Edge
HDD:
Raid0 Seagate SCSI 34GB 10K RPM
Seagate SCSI 73GB 10K RPM
WD IDE 20GB 7200RPM
Seagate SCSI 21GB 5400RPM
Seagate SCSI 18GB 7200 RPM
Monitors:
PGS C2100 21" CRT
Sony Multisync 15" CRT
IBM T85D 18" LCD
Before that
Dual PIII 500 Katmai(very 1st time I got into computers)
P2B-D - pre-coppermine revision
Rage Fury MAXx
Aureal 2500
Maxtor 20GB 7200RPM
PGS C2100 21" CRT
Now:
PI 166@200
Intel thingamabob. It's so old I don't bother lookin=P
Onboard ATi Mach64 II
I want a dual system again. Nothing beats the responsiveness of a dual. They also age a lot slower. If I were to make a choice b/w the P4 2.4Ghz and the Dual 800's, I'd take the duals.
Memories=) I didn't mean to write out most of my hardware=P
Recently I had a:
[email protected] on the stock HS/F
P4T-E BIOS revision P4T533-C 1003.002
ATi 8500 128MB
Same as T-Bird really
Before that I had:
T-bird [email protected] on water
A7A266
ATi AIW Radeon
Seagate SCSI 34GB 10K RPM
IBM T85D 18" LCD monitor
Before that(This is my baby):
Dual PIII 600E@800 on water
P2B-DS coppermine revision
Video:
Videologic Neon250
Elsa GeForce Quadro
GeForce GTS
Matrox G400 dualhead
Ati AIW Radeon
Voodoo4500
Sound:
Aureal 2500
Diamond Monster Sound M400
SBLive! w/ the Live! Drive
Hercules GTXP
M-Audio Audiophile 24/96
M-Audio Delta 1010
Philips Acoustic Edge
HDD:
Raid0 Seagate SCSI 34GB 10K RPM
Seagate SCSI 73GB 10K RPM
WD IDE 20GB 7200RPM
Seagate SCSI 21GB 5400RPM
Seagate SCSI 18GB 7200 RPM
Monitors:
PGS C2100 21" CRT
Sony Multisync 15" CRT
IBM T85D 18" LCD
Before that
Dual PIII 500 Katmai(very 1st time I got into computers)
P2B-D - pre-coppermine revision
Rage Fury MAXx
Aureal 2500
Maxtor 20GB 7200RPM
PGS C2100 21" CRT
Now:
PI 166@200
Intel thingamabob. It's so old I don't bother lookin=P
Onboard ATi Mach64 II
I want a dual system again. Nothing beats the responsiveness of a dual. They also age a lot slower. If I were to make a choice b/w the P4 2.4Ghz and the Dual 800's, I'd take the duals.
Memories=) I didn't mean to write out most of my hardware=P
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2002
- Location
- Lansdowne, VA
newguy said:
I'd go with a P4 1.6a(northwoods) and overclock the snot outta it. You can get 2.1GHz without effort. You'd also be paying a lot less which could go towards a better videocard.
You don't need ECC memory unless you do servers. It'll drag down your performance and carries a hefty pricetag. Also get Samsung RAM. They generally do PC1066 and above speeds. Go for 512MB if you can. 256MB should be the bare minimum. Get 2 sticks instead of 4 for better overclocking results(harder to get all 4 sticks to sync at higher speeds)
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2002
- Location
- El Cerrito, CA
MospeadasDark said:
I agree. I have 4 sticks of 256 MB Samsung RDRAM (double sided) that won't go above 130 with my P4T-E (with the good ICS chips). However, any two of them will go 133 rock solid. This is with the stock heat sink. Remember that you do need to need to purchase RDRAM in pairs.
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Location
- The bush in B.C. Canada
Mospead,dude I don't know why you'd get rid of that P4 rig.Man I just built this Amd rig,and I already want a P4 with rambus.I guess i'll just have too OC this thing and get a new vid card.(definately going Nvida this time.).
I don't understand why guys are so into large chunks of ram,I've read countless stuff that say anything over 256mb is only necessary if your doing photo editing or rendering.Otherwise your performance boosts are negligible,although running Win2k or Xp Os's I'd run 512mb.
I think its gonna be hard for us to get PC1066 in Canada,and when we buy from the states we get hammered at the line with duties.But if you want the best thats the way too go,if I was to go PC1066.I think I'd look at the Iwill P4R533 or anything else running the 850E chipset.
I don't understand why guys are so into large chunks of ram,I've read countless stuff that say anything over 256mb is only necessary if your doing photo editing or rendering.Otherwise your performance boosts are negligible,although running Win2k or Xp Os's I'd run 512mb.
I think its gonna be hard for us to get PC1066 in Canada,and when we buy from the states we get hammered at the line with duties.But if you want the best thats the way too go,if I was to go PC1066.I think I'd look at the Iwill P4R533 or anything else running the 850E chipset.
