O/C newbie needs upgrade advice! Help!

[AngyMan]

Hey there :) This is my first post in these forums, and it'll be painfully obvious to you all that I'm a very novice techie, so please go easy on me. *g*

To cut a long story short, I live in the UK, and about 2 years ago I bought myself a PC from an OEM (*groan* I know, I know). Tiny computers, to be exact. After reading through this guide (http://www.overclockers.com/articles107/), and based on my experience with the PC in general, I want to do some serious upgrading, and I also want to take my first steps into the world of the 'computer techie'. So I've saved up and set myself a fair budget aside, and began to read up on some of the articles and posts here at Overclockers. However, even though I've worked through quite a few of the guides, my time is running out: there's a computer-faire coming up in two days time, and I want to be able to go in there feeling confident, knowing what I want and being able to judge what is good value. *grin*

So, all-knowledgeable Gods of computer hardware, I could really use a hand in choosing what parts to upgrade! :D I'm not necessarily looking for the most amazing kit on the planet, and that's probably out of my price range. I'm after a stable, reliable PC, fairly powerful, and I want to lose the corner-cut second rate components that my OEM bundled in, in favour of some nice spangly up-to-date kit. My PC functions mainly as a game's machine, btw.

This is my current spec, in as much detail as I could manage. If you need any other details, just fire away. :)

Processor AMD Athlon 900
Memory 128MB SDRAM
Cache HP 200MHZ
Graphics 32MB GFORCE WITH TVOUT
Mainboard MS-6340 KT133
Case MICRO ATX TOWER
I/O PCI IDE (ENHANCED)
PSU Delta DPS-145PB-111 A Rev00
Hard Disk 40GB UDMA

19” Monitor
Altec Lansing Subwoofer +2 Speakers
Soundblaster 128
DVD Rom
CDRW

How would you go about upgrading this baby, eh? I think the Motherboard and the RAM are in definite need of changing, and the cooling on this thing is sucky, to say the least. (It's pretty hot in there). What should I go for? I'm tempted to go for a dually, seeing as I multi-task a fair bit, but I'm not sure if it'll give me the 'bang for the buck' I want, so to speak. Is DDR ram a good choice? What's the stablest motherboard I can get with a nice bus speed?

As I say, I'm quite new to the technical side of things- I'm more competent with the actual software generally. I can fork out up to about £500, if needs be. If some of you guys could provide me with ideas of which parts need upgrading the most, the best product to go for, and, most importantly, the price I should be paying for those components, that'd be fantastic. :beer:

Remember, I'm after stability and overall performance, without spending a bomb (aren't we all, eh? :D), and could really use some support, general advice and a range of different options and prices. Prepare to be showered with praise if you can help me out!

Cheers,

Angyman.

p.s. apologies for my general newbiness, hope this was the right place for this topic ;)

[Gregory_WE]

You'll definitely want to get at least another 128 MB of memory.

256-512 MB total is a good area for normal computer use.

[Breadfan]

Welcome to the forums!!!!!

Well, there are a few questions you still need to ask yourself. Do you wish to go AMD or Intel? Right now, there isn't much of a clear cut answer there. There are benefits to each. It's all up to your budget and which you'd prefer. Me? I'm still looking at AMD personally, but thats mainly b/c in the past year and a half, its all been AMD for me...but like I said, thats just my particular preference...

You'll also want to ask yourself what you wish to use the system for. Do you game alot? Or do you game very little? If you don't game very much, then a simple CPU/Motherboard/RAM (and probably PSU) upgrade would be good enough. Then again, you can get a pretty sweet video card for 150, even 100 bucks (USD).

If you're happy with your soundblaster (my 128 was crackly and I didn't like it), then you can hold onto that, as well as all your drives.

If you keep the soundcard, then you've already got that to use, so you don't need a motherboard with onboard audio. Thats why I chose the Abit KX7-333r. It's a nice KT333 Raid motherboard that only cost my 108 bucks USD. It has TONS of tweaking options, and I must say, I love it. Absolutely no problems with it.

Then, I'd add in 256mb of RAM, pc2700 would be nice, but if you can't afford it 2100 is cheaper, and the Crucial pc2100 can often overclock past 2700 speeds...

Then, an AthlonXP 1600+ or 1800+ (AGOGA stepping would be nice) would be a good price/performance buy. The AthlonXP's perform great.

As for the PSU, most likely the OEM one is either a cheap 300w or a decent 250w. Whichever case, thats not enough nowadays. I'd recommend a Sparkle 350w psu...good price, excellent 3.3v+5v output.

Ofcourse, thats just my opinon. If you don't want to use your Creative soundcard anymore, and were looknig for a mobo with good integrated sound, the ASUS A7V333 is a very stable, very tweakable board with good onboard audio.

And, you may ofcourse wish to go intel, and if thats the case, I must admit there are alot more people who can recommend better Intel parts than I could!

Good luck!
Mike

[CPFitz14]

500 pounds is like $720 USD, so you could build a whole new system. I am building the system in my sig, and it is going to end up with a price tag of about $680 USD.

[Da Whip]

Here is a UK site and I put together a sample of what you could do.
http://www.hitechpc.co.uk/viewcart.htm?qty=1&pid=14&Buy+EVER+COOL+FULL+COPPER+WITH+70MM+FAN+FITTED+UP+ TO+ANY+SPEED.x=28&Buy+EVER+COOL+FULL+COPPER+WITH+70MM+FAN+FITTED+UP+ TO+ANY+SPEED.y=7

[DaddyB]

Your motherboard only supports pc133 ram and you will definetly want to get ddr, so i'd reccomend either getting a new motherboard/cpu/ram/power supply or just see if you can put together a whole new system for that price.

it shouldnt be too hard to find online stores that will sell you components for pretty cheap. as the others said, an xp1600 - 1800, 256mb of ram and a 350w or more power supply. find some online stores based in the uk and compare prices, then go to that computer show and see if their prices are any better. if not then just order everything/most parts online. if you find some good prices on cpus at that show check out the stepping (thats the second line on the cpu) and see if you can get a good one like aroia or agoia. the writting on the cpu will be similar to this:

AX1800DMT3C - AX = athlon xp, AXDA = tbred
AGOIA0148WPAW - AGOIA is the stepping
Y73298404202 - the letter Y here means it should be a good overclocker

[Breadfan]

Yeah, I missed your budget there in your post...

With the PC2700, what I mentioned in my earlier post would probably be about 300-320 bucks...less than half your budget. So that means you can look for other things, or get more RAM, faster CPU, etc etc...

I still like the Abit board though :) It'll most likely be like my old A7V and be a board that I'll never put out of service. :)

Mike

[David]

Originally posted by AngyMan

This is my current spec, in as much detail as I could manage. If you need any other details, just fire away. :)

Processor AMD Athlon 900
Memory 128MB SDRAM
Cache HP 200MHZ
Graphics 32MB GFORCE WITH TVOUT
Mainboard MS-6340 KT133
Case MICRO ATX TOWER
I/O PCI IDE (ENHANCED)
PSU Delta DPS-145PB-111 A Rev00
Hard Disk 40GB UDMA

19? Monitor
Altec Lansing Subwoofer +2 Speakers
Soundblaster 128
DVD Rom
CDRW


In the order of importance:

1) MATX case = yuk
Get a nice Midi or full tower. Less than £40 with a 300W PSU.

2) DDR Motherboard and DDR RAM.
That KT133 board is ancient and the RAM is too little too slow. Go for 256MB+ of DDR RAM.

3) CPU
An AthlonXP would do nicely - any speed of AthlonXP will be faster than a 900 Athlon.

4) Graphics
The 32MB GeForce is OK, but for decent gaming performance go for at least a 64MB GeForce 3 of some description.

David

[AngyMan]

Thanks very much so far guys :) I've been labouring most of last night and this morning putting together a spec for this PC. Breadfan- I'm sticking with AMD I think- it seems far more popular amongst the O/C community, and I've used one for nigh-on two years and it hasn't let me down once (unlike the crummy motherboard). Oh, btw, I dropped the idea of running a SMP system- too complicated for a novice like me, and I don't fancy the idea of continually having to tweak it just to maintain it. I can do without the headaches :P

This is what I have at the moment:

Motherboard - Asus A7V333
512 DDR RAM - pc2700
CPU Heatsink - Thermaltake VOLCANO 7 Variable Fan Speed Control
Processor - Athlon XP - 1600/1800, AGOIA/AROIA Stepping
Graphics card - GeForce4-TI4200-128M

Still looking into the case and power-supply (and could use some specific suggestions). Also, I'm now trying to do some kind of price comparison, but I'm finding it a little tough because there seems to be a lot of variety in the components themselves. It's not like I'm just shopping for an XP processor- there's options like whether it should be Palamino or a thoroughbread, 3D now or not, Socket A or not, 266FSB or otherwise, QuantiSpeed Architecture, etc. etc. - which doesn't really mean a lot to me atm. :( Same applies to most of the components really- the heatsink comes in multiple varieties, as does the RAM and the Graphics card, and the Motherboard, well... that's worse still. Any specific features I should be looking for?

What about cooling, what should I invest in for that? Any other components that I have forgotten/could really use? Any alternatives to the ones I have chosen, assuming that the faire doesn't have them in stock?

Cheers again,

Angyman.

P.s. Anyone find any other UK based Online stores? I have Dabs (http://www.dabs.com/home.asp) , Insight (http://www.insight.com/uk/index.php) , Scan Computers (http://www.scan.co.uk/) and High-Tech PC (http://www.hitechpc.co.uk/index.htm), kindly provided by Da Whip. Oh, and incidentally, I couldn't see your shopping list at the URL you provided Da Whip.

[UnseenMenace]

overclock.co.uk
overclockers.co.uk
tekheads.co.uk

Whats your budget Angyman ?

Ahh a fellow Londoner, Where abouts Angyman?

[AngyMan]

Cheers Unseen- I'm in and around the Greenford area :) Is it just me, or do we have to pay obscene amounts of money for kit that Americans pay half the price for, eh? ;) Ah, the Joys of Britain.

Angyman.

[AngyMan]

Oh, and budget is at the top- up to a maximum of around about £500, though if I can get away with spending less, all the better ;)

[UnseenMenace]

Greenford, I know it well just a little bit up the road from me ( Heathrow / Uxbridge )

The sytem spec you mention looks ok but imho
If I was on a budget of £500 or hopefully less. I would look towards a system such as this. (reasons stated below)

Mobo = Epox 8 kha+
Processor = 1600 +
Heatsink = Millennium Thermal Glaciator 2
Ram = 512 mb of Crucial PC2100 or Kingmax PC2100
Graphics = Gainward Geforce 3 Ti500 128 mb Golden sample

the Epox kha+ with a bios update is reknown for its ability to run a very high FSB without problem and with everyone looking at the latest 333 DDR mobo's this can be picked up at reasonable prices.
Processor is basically the best value AMD in the uk at the moment.
Millennium Thermal Glaciator 2.. The best around, it works though great design rather than requiring a super powerfull and noizey fan to get results. It ships with Artic Silver and has a great clip which makes fitting a breeze.
Great quality PC2100 (have you seen the price of PC2700 in the UK?) .. I have run a 180 mhz FSB using these makes of PC2100.
I would rather have a good quality Geforce 3 than a un-branded Geforce 4.

The system will still have awesome performance and be a joy to use not to mention the money saved could be put to case cooling or a better performing drive.

[David]

Originally posted by AngyMan
Thanks very much so far guys :) I've been labouring most of last night and this morning putting together a spec for this PC. Breadfan- I'm sticking with AMD I think- it seems far more popular amongst the O/C community, and I've used one for nigh-on two years and it hasn't let me down once (unlike the crummy motherboard). Oh, btw, I dropped the idea of running a SMP system- too complicated for a novice like me, and I don't fancy the idea of continually having to tweak it just to maintain it. I can do without the headaches :P

This is what I have at the moment:

Motherboard - Asus A7V333
512 DDR RAM - pc2700
CPU Heatsink - Thermaltake VOLCANO 7 Variable Fan Speed Control
Processor - Athlon XP - 1600/1800, AGOIA/AROIA Stepping
Graphics card - GeForce4-TI4200-128M

Still looking into the case and power-supply (and could use some specific suggestions). Also, I'm now trying to do some kind of price comparison, but I'm finding it a little tough because there seems to be a lot of variety in the components themselves. It's not like I'm just shopping for an XP processor- there's options like whether it should be Palamino or a thoroughbread, 3D now or not, Socket A or not, 266FSB or otherwise, QuantiSpeed Architecture, etc. etc. - which doesn't really mean a lot to me atm.


Tbred v Palomino
I would say go for a lower speed Palomino, like 1600+ or 1700+.

3DNow, Quantispeed, 266FSB
All AthlonXPs have these.

Socket A
All AMD CPUs within the past few years except the K6-X and Athlon Classic have been Socket A.


:( Same applies to most of the components really- the heatsink comes in multiple varieties, as does the RAM and the Graphics card, and the Motherboard, well... that's worse still. Any specific features I should be looking for?

What about cooling, what should I invest in for that? Any other components that I have forgotten/could really use? Any alternatives to the ones I have chosen, assuming that the faire doesn't have them in stock?

Cheers again,

Angyman.

P.s. Anyone find any other UK based Online stores? I have Dabs (http://www.dabs.com/home.asp) , Insight (http://www.insight.com/uk/index.php) , Scan Computers (http://www.scan.co.uk/) and High-Tech PC (http://www.hitechpc.co.uk/index.htm), kindly provided by Da Whip. Oh, and incidentally, I couldn't see your shopping list at the URL you provided Da Whip.


Heres a few suggestions for UK shops:

www.ebuyer.com
www.cclcomputers.co.uk
www.microdirect.co.uk

David

[AngyMan]

Excellent! Thanks again :) Ok, I'm compiling a list of good products and average prices now, but another problem has cropped up. A mate of mine thinks that my CD/DVD drive and CDRW are moulded onto the actual tower unit, and as such cannot be removed! Is there any truth behind this? If they can be removed, how tricky will it be?

Angyman.

[David]

Originally posted by AngyMan
Excellent! Thanks again :) Ok, I'm compiling a list of good products and average prices now, but another problem has cropped up. A mate of mine thinks that my CD/DVD drive and CDRW are moulded onto the actual tower unit, and as such cannot be removed! Is there any truth behind this? If they can be removed, how tricky will it be?

Angyman.

The tower case may have an extra drawer or something, but I doubt it it moulded onto the case. Have a look and try removing it.

David

[David]

Originally posted by UnseenMenace

Mobo = Epox 8 kha+
Processor = 1600 +
Heatsink = Millennium Thermal Glaciator 2
Ram = 512 mb of Crucial PC2100 or Kingmax PC2100
Graphics = Gainward Geforce 3 Ti500 128 mb Golden sample


prices from www.cclcomputers.co.uk:

(exc VAT)

XP1700+ = 65.12
Global WIn WBK38 = 16.34
Epox 8KHA+ = 74.92
2* 256MB Branded PC2100 RAM = 29.92 * 2128MB GeForce 3 = 153.34

Total exc VAT = 369.56
Total inc VAT = £434.23

David

[UnseenMenace]

Originally posted by David


prices from www.cclcomputers.co.uk:

(exc VAT)

XP1700+ = 65.12
Global WIn WBK38 = 16.34
Epox 8KHA+ = 74.92
2* 256MB Branded PC2100 RAM = 29.92 * 2128MB GeForce 3 = 153.34

Total exc VAT = 369.56
Total inc VAT = £434.23

David

Top class system for not much cash :)
What more could you want !!

[David]

Originally posted by UnseenMenace


Top class system for not much cash :)
What more could you want !!

I am a little unsure of the cooler, thats the only thing I would personally investigate more. An alternative is the Akasa icicle 765 or 785, or a different Global Win Cooler.

David

[AngyMan]

Thanks guys. You've been great!

I've compiled a list of various top-quality computer components, ranging from top of the line like the 333 DDR mobo's, through to cheaper, yet still powerful parts such as the Epox 8KHAL+. I've got a few different prices for them, taken from UK Online stores such as OcUK, Tekheads, etc. I intend to go along to this faire tomorrow, and basically hunt around for any good deals, now that I have a good idea as to what constitutes a great quality component, and what their respective average prices are.
Sounds like a plan, right? ;)

I just want to say cheers to everyone who's contributed to this thread- I'll keep you updated as to what parts I pick up, and I'll be sure to have some more questions regarding finishing touches, and anything that I can't get hold of tomorrow. Who knows, what with all this surplus processing power, I may even have to join a Folding team :D

Thanks again!

Angyman.

[AngyMan]

Hey folks.

Angyman here, reporting back. The computer faire didn't really offer anything exceptionally interesting, so I decided to order my parts online via the Internet. I've planned out a system, but what I could really use is some feedback on it. I'd really appreciate it if someone who's competent with this sort of thing checked over my list here :) I'm ordering some of the parts from Micro Direct (http://www.microdirect.co.uk/), and most of the remaining parts from OcUK (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/). Ok, here goes:

New Parts: (All prices inclusive of VAT)

Micro Direct-

Motherboard:
Epox EX-8KHA + KT266A socket A DDR ATA100 ATX (http://www.microdirect.co.uk/) - £90.48
Processor: AMD Athlon XP 1800 (266MHz) OEM (http://www.microdirect.co.uk/products/cpus/amd_table.htm) - £79.90
Video Card: Gainward GeForce 3 Powerpack Ti/500 XP Jumbo Golden Sample AGP (Ti-200 128MB DDR VIVO DVI) (http://www.microdirect.co.uk/) - £119.85

OcUK-
Case: Coolercase Tornado (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Coolercase_Range_45.html#aca_2d00 8_2doc) - £78.43
PSU: Sparkle FSP400-60PFN 400W ATX Power Supply - AMD Approved (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_ATX_Power_Supplies_33.html) - £74.61
Heatsink: Thermaltake Volcano 7+ (Pentium 4/Socket A) (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Other_CPU_and_System_Coolers_18.h tml) - £24.68
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Audigy SB1394 EG - OEM (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Sound_Cards_11.html) - £49.35
Memory: 2 xCrucial 256MB DDR PC2100 CAS-2.5 (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Memory_8.html) - £87.18

Total Price = £604.48 (Not including delivery, credit card subcharges, etc.)

Old Parts:

Hard Disk 40GB UDMA
19” Monitor
Altec Lansing Subwoofer +2 Speakers
DVD Rom
CDRW

Spare Parts:

Processor - AMD Athlon 900
Memory - 128MB SDRAM
Graphics - 32MB GeForce 2MX
Mobo - MS-6340 KT133
Case - MICRO ATX TOWER
Soundcard - Soundblaster 128
PSU - Delta DPS-145PB-111 A Rev00

That's at least £100 over my budget- which is something I am very reluctant to do. How much would I get for selling my spare parts, generally speaking? Are there any additional components I will need to invest in? What are your general thoughts on the spec?

Please! Your thoughts!

Angyman.

[AngyMan]

bump-

[David]

Originally posted by AngyMan
How much would I get for selling my spare parts, generally speaking? Are there any additional components I will need to invest in? What are your general thoughts on the spec?

Please! Your thoughts!

Angyman.

I would say that you could set the Athlon 900 up as quite a fast dedicated folding (http://folding.stanford.edu) or SETI (http://www.ocsetiteam.com) rig with little difficulty. All you would need is either a small HD if you were to run windows on it, or a CDROM drive if you want to give Overfoldix (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ofdx) a try.

David

[UnseenMenace]

If the aim is to save money then I would personally drop the Sound Blaster Audigy and look towards a more cost effective case. For the following reasons.

The Kha+ has pretty reasonable onboard sound (AC97) and as such this could be used untill such a time that you can afford to upgrade again. Not to mention I used to run a Sound Blaster card in my Kha+ however this held my FSB back, removing it and using the onboard sound allowed me to reach much higher speeds. I dont really notice the sound difference either to be honest.

The case is something that you may possibly modify over a period of time, either to increase airflow performance or to improve the case appearance should the overclocking/pc bug catch you in a big way.. It is exceptionally easy to ruin a case though lack of experience and as such a cheep case modded well makes it worth more and if damaged it is not worth much less.