System building help...

[Thantos]

Hey guys before i go and buy anything i wanna check if im buying the right stuff or not.... Need some feedback and suggestions.. BTW im in canada and looking for can funds...

Mobo/CPU combo from www.ncix.com
P4 Northwood 1.6 ghz @ 2.1 ghz (preclocked) 400 fsb s478 retail
SOLTEK SL-85DRS2 SIS 645A2 S478 DDR ATA100 AGP 6PCI W/ SOUND[ SL-85DRS2 ]
PC2100 256MB DDR 266MHZ NON-ECC OEM Ram
= $415
ANTEC SX1030B 10BAY 300W P/S BLACK PERFORMANCE SERIES WORKSTATION
= $158

Need your help for these
Graphic card (i dunno yet hard to choose)
HD
Monitor
USB
Ethernet card
DVD or CD - Rom
So far it adds up to $573 wht u think?

[RnPgrosz]

Personaly I would go with an epox 8k3a+ and xp 1600+ that you would probably be able to hit 1.8 ghz or higher with. You mobo/cpu combo is fine though. The one thing I would recommend is getting some better ram. It sounds like that stuff is generic and I doubt you will be able to hit a high fsb with it. I would go with a geforce 4 ti4200, unless you want to spend more. A 60 gb maxtor quiet drive or an 80 gb western digital hd with 8mb cache. Network card doesn't matter too much, I would get a linksys or d-link card. For dvd, just make sure its a 16x drive.
Good luck on whatever you decide to buy.

[Thantos]

Interesting...
So possibly what are the prices for those things? Which has better stability? Intel or AMD?

[1Time]

I recommend a GeForce3 Ti200 w/TV out, best bang for the buck video card. Of course I'm a little partial; I'll be selling some next week cheap in the classifieds.

[Thantos]

I dont think i have access to the classifieds :(

[David]

Originally posted by Thantos
Interesting...
So possibly what are the prices for those things? Which has better stability? Intel or AMD?

AFAIK, at stock speed and with good cooling both AMD and Intel are stable. Pentim4s will deal better with heat - they will slow down if cooling isn't working properly. AMD CPUs will just overheat.

[Thantos]

k cool now the matter of the fact is where would be the best place to purchase my stuff in Canada?

[Penguin4x4]

A search engine is your best bet. Also, you could PM other Canadian members.
:)

[Thantos]

I was wondering which would work better? An asus board or a soltek board with a north P4? If its asus, then which one? I'd like preferably an onboard sound and ethernet (if u think its a good idea)

[Penguin4x4]

For OCing, go with Asus. AC'97 audio is pretty decent. P4T533 is what I would go with, for DDR I would choose P4S333. I would also check out ABIT's TH7II-RAID or IT7 MAX, or Gigabyte's GA-8IHXP or GA-8IRXP.

[Tumbler 00]

For Canadian vendors look under Vendors discussion and the sticky at the top.You should be able to get a decent vendor in T.O.

That combo looks tempting(if the numbers make sense?).But like its been mentioned the weak link would first be the Ram.And if you have to trouble-shoot it,by then you would probably know enough to have done the original OC on a board of your own choosing with quality ram.(just a thought).

[DaddyB]

yeah i think that asus P4T533 would be sweet but its a little pricey, also its difficult to find pc1066 rdram right now so you might wind up getting pc 800 but either one beats ddr ram. if you can afford it go for that board. this board comes with 4 usb 2.0 ports (works with usb 1.0/1.1 as well) and pretty much any board you but will have at least 2 usb ports (usually 1.1) so you shouldnt have to worry about that. If you get that board dont forget to buy a heatsink/fan and some artic silver 3 thermal paste, you may also want some case fans if that case you picked out doesnt have any.

I realize that soltek board and P4 1.6 are a part of a package deal and it is a good price but if you can afford to get the board above and some rdram along with a P4 1.6A or better I would go for it. The soltek/P4 rig will blow away what you have now though the asus board w/rdram will be a bit better then that.

If you can afford a geforce 4 Ti (even a 4200) then that would be the way to go, if not a geforce 3 or better yet an ati radeon 8500 would be much much faster then what you have. When you get this system put together you wont believe how fast it is compared to your current system.

For the monitor see if you can get a Trinitron monitor for a good price, they are really amazing. go for a 17" or better, make sure that whatever monitor you buy can do at least 1600x1200 @75hz or higher.

I reccomend the Maxtor d740x hard drives, get at least 40Gb. the seagate barracuda are also good. the eithernet card/cdrom/dvdrom doesnt matter so much, i would say go for a dvdrom or cdrw drive that is within your price range, the brands already mentioned are good.

ncix is good and basically the cheapest i have found, www.pccanada.com is also pretty good. I have ordered from both of them and reccomend them both. I recently found a site called www.vibecomputers.com and they have good prices but I have not ordered from them so i cant comment about their service.

ugh long post..fingers sore..must stop

[Thantos]

Thx for the info good post i needed that

However wht would help me in the long run rd ram or ddr? Im thinking of keeping this comp for at least 2 years i dont want anything that will phase out too quickly

[DaddyB]

a few points:

I dont think ddr or rdram will be going anywhere for a long time, you will still be able to buy it 5 years from now (you can still buy pc100 sdram).

AMD will release a chip (and other companies will release motherboards) that support ddr 400mhz (the chip will have a 400mhz FSB) in about a year (maybe january but i expect it to be delayed) but i think intel will stay 533mhz (pc1066) until they release their next chip (P5?). intel may release a chipset that will support the 400mhz DDR RAM around the same time amd does but pc1066mhz will still be faster.

When you buy/install rdram you must always use 2 identicle sticks (ie 2 samsung 256Mb for a total of 512Mb).

If you buy 2 sticks of pc800 with the computer and then wish to upgrade to pc1066 in the future then you will have to toss the pc800 out, the ram will only run as fast as the slowest ram you have (the pc1066 would run at pc800 speeds). so either buy pc800 and stay with that or do some hunting and find pc1066 now (if you get the RDRAM motherboard).

That P4 will run faster on RDRAM then it would on ddr ram and pc1066 is the king of bandwidth right now (just came out).

the system as a whole will kill your current system in every way, so even if you go with ddr ram you wont regret it. there is nothing wrong with ddr ram but the P4 was designed to work with RDRAM and that will allow for optimum performance.

[drunkmonkey]

I would recommend the stuff in my sig. I researched a very long time on this stuff and it seems like the best to me. Can't wait till the parts come in.

Edit: 2 things
www.ncix.com looks WAY overpriced, $174 for an xp1800??? they're usualy only $99. If you go with the stuff in my sig be sure to get Samsung original pc2700 & at least 512mb if you are gonna use winxp.

Double edit:
Duh, I'm so stupid, Canadian money. Well, in amarican cash they still are a bit overpriced.

[Thantos]

thx guys been looking over the stuff uve written very good info that is helping me. I was looking at the board that Daddyb posted... it appears very good however i read so reviews qnd they say that the mobo doesnt preform very well using office appz and games i was wondering if this is a big problem or not...

Besides that im conflicted with fears... I want to overclock however I have been looking at information and I am a little afraid... Will overclocking reduce the life span of my processor?

[DaddyB]

The reviews I have found show that the asus board performs pretty well:

http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/Motherboards/asus_p4t533(3).shtml

http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/02q2/020624/i850e-17.html

Overclocking can reduce the lifespan of your processor but if you get a good heatsink/fan, some artic silver 3 and dont go too crazy with the Vcore then you shouldnt have too much to worry about. the good thing about P4 processors is that they will slow themself down if they begin to overheat, this will make sure they dont burn out. get a good heatsink/fan, some artic silver 3 and dont go too crazy with the Vcore and your processor should last well beyond the 2 years you want it to.

[Thantos]

k cool I am also wondering about the p4 to get... Ive been looking in the database and I see that 1.6a and 1.8a have the best ability to o/c however im not sure if it would be advisable to purchase a 2.0 GHz instead... Other than this... Lately Intel has been releasing their chips at .2 increments... Is this because of marketing or something else? I wanna know cuz if I buy say a 1.6 ghz Im afraid they might just come out with a 5 ghZ the next month....

However, the Motherboard (p4t533 i850) sounds good but it only comes with 2 ram slots... Is that enough if someone were choose to add more ram?

[lonewolf1983]

the 1.8 seems at the best point for overclocking,and doesnt cost much more than a 1.6

and just so you know, AMD will not be releasing a higher FSB cpu this year, and wont do until the release of the Hammer sometime next year

[Thantos]

Ok thats good... But the final thing remains... Ive been looking at all your specs and most of you use AMD XPs why is that? is it because they are faster better and cheaper or is it preference?

I know pentium 4s have better performance ratio but I have friends that say they arent worth it...

[Penguin4x4]

AMD Motherboards/ Processors are less expensive and have somewhat more models available.

[Thantos]

ic ic hmm.. but which would last longer after o/c i hope to reach a clock of 2.4-2.6..

I want to get a 1.8a GHz Northwood
I was wondering how long would it last if i had this...
Cooling is another story I read about watercooling however that is way too pricy and I dont know wht are good heatsinks and heat sink fans...

[Penguin4x4]

1.8A Northwood, Alpha PAL8942 Heatsink with Panasonic PanaFlo H1A 80mm fan, ABIT IT7, Hitachi CM715, Leadtek WinFast Titanium 500TD, Western Digital W1000JB hard drive, Toshiba SD-M1612, and Mushkin PC2700 DDR RAM should suffice

[Thantos]

ok interesting... now my question is on the universal debate of which is better ddr or rd ram I have no idea the differenec can someone point me in a good direction and tell me the diff?

[Penguin4x4]

Dual Channel PC1066 RDRAM runs 4.2GB/second max. theoretical bandwidth.
Dual Channel PC800 RDRAM runs 3.2GB/second max. theoretical bandwidth, the same as PC3200 DDR.
PC2700 runs 2,700 Bytes/second, or 2.7GB. PC3000 runs at 3GB/second, and so on. Latency is the big issue with RDRAM. 40 nanoseconds as to apposed to 2-3 nanoseconds with DDR. RDRAM must be purchased in pairs, and Continuity RIMM modules must be plugged into any open sockets,(supplied with most motherboards) for Rambus memory channel to work correctly. For a budget, go with the above selection. Max performance wise, RAMBUS. 512Mb at least of each, though, if you plan to run WinXP.

[Penguin4x4]

Take a gander at this (http://www.kingston.com/newtech/rambusov.asp), another good link (http://www.kingston.com/newtech/overview.asp). Link (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/products/8ihxp.htm). Link (http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/pt_main_back.jsp?pPRODUCT_TYPE=MotherBoard&pMODEL_NAME=IT7). Reference (http://www.kingston.com/newtech/ddrbandwidth.asp). More reference (http://www.kingston.com/newtech/rambusbw.asp).

[Thantos]

thx alot very helpful (that STR function is very tempting...)so based on wht ive seen is the ddr ram is cheaper and almost equivilant to the rd/rambus ram uptill u hit the pc800 dual channel... The rd ram is more expensive but runs better with pentium 4... i c ic hmm.. based on functions i am leaning towards the gigabyte or the asus... although i am confused.. penguin u said that the rd ram system requires to stick s to run.. but i thought tat you could run on one stick too.. (the asus p4t533 i850 in the asus board section...) But the main thing is which will phase out first?

[Penguin4x4]

Probably RDRAM, because of licensing fees you must pay Rambus Inc. in order to use their technology, whereas SDRAM and DDR are universal technologies designed through a collabroative effort, much in the same way FireWire, CD-R/RW, USB, and DVD+R/+RW is. RDRAM must be used in pairs, period. Sucks, don't it?

[Thantos]

y athat sux pretty bad... puts a downer on my prospects but i guess itll prolly make my wallet happy :)

Now let c wht i have decided so far...
Pentium 4 1.6 - 2.0
DDR ram
Mobo - dunno abot the choices so more input would be good
Vid Card - Nvidia Geforce 3 / 4
Dvd -rom - 16x
floppy - cheapest one

[Penguin4x4]

ABIT's BD7II-RAID, MSI's 645E Max2 or 845-Ultra; Gigabyte's GA-8IRXP, Soyo's SY-P4S D.R.A.G.O.N. Ultra or SY-P4I Fire D.R.A.G.O.N. ABIT, ASUS, Soyo, MSI, Shuttle, and Gigabyte are some of the best boards in the biz(unsure of OCing, but ABIT and Gigabyte are the top that I have seen.)Toshiba's SD-M1612 DVD-ROM, Leadtek's WinFast Titanium 500TD video card, Western Digital's 80Gb,(WD800JB), 100Gb, (WD1000JB), or 120Gb(WD1200JB), hard drive, either Hitachi's CM715 or NEC's MultiSync FE950+ monitor, aluminium Dragon mid tower case, here (http://www.directron.com/dx01sld.html), is less than 300 dollars with PC Power & Cooling's Silencer 400 Power Supply; and, say, Altec Lansing's 2100LA speakers, Microsoft Internet Keyboard and Intellimouse or Wheel Mouse Optical's, or Logitech MouseMan Dual Optical mouse. If you want more reccomendations, I would go with Hewlett-Packards PhotoSmart 1315 inkjet, and either an APC or CyberPower surge arrestor, Belkin cables, and a Ratpadz.com mouse pad. More specific or do you think you got it? :D

[Thantos]

Got it thx very much jus one thing isnt that the antec 1030b design just without the psu? (lemme guess its a generic design contracted to psu suppliers)

[Penguin4x4]

Different design, and it is steel, so it does not dissipate heat as good a aluminium,(3x faster with aluminium,)

[drunkmonkey]

Just a little advice/idea. If you want to seriously overclock get a fan adapter and put a bigger fan on the heatsink you get. A bigger fan has a better cfm/dba ratio than a smaller one also. I'm gonna use a 120mm 121cfm fan on my ax-7 that uses an 80mm fan. You can get a bunch of different fan adapters, fans, and heatsinks from www.plycon.com
I don't know why most people don't do this, Just don't forget about the weight issue, a hs that attaches to the mobo w/ bolts will support all that extra weight much better.

[DaddyB]

The difference between RDRAM and DDR RAM's latency is not that drastic and that issue only applied to the earlier RDRAM chipsets, mainly the ones for the P3. The 850 and 850E chipsets are dual channel, the P3 chipsets were not. the fact that its dual channel cuts the latency in half, as it writes to the first available module

[Thantos]

k cool

[Penguin4x4]

I would actually get a Hitachi CM721F monitor, check it out. (http://www.hitachidisplays.com/products/19_721F.htm) Forgot to add it in the last post. RAMBUS with a P-III? Which chipest was that? I thought that the i815 and VIA's Apollo 133 and 694T chipsets were the only available. I wouldn't count out ATI's IGPset Boards, either (http://www.ati.com/technology/hardware/radeonigp/features.html). The 330/340 set looks promising, especially with integrated Radeon GPU with BGA RAM.

[Penguin4x4]

Yeah, here's a board, (http://www.sapphiretech.com/PRODUCT/M-A4-286.htm)

[Thantos]

Thats one sweet board :) Although I had a Ati in the past and they dont like making drivers for their older models anymore..

[Penguin4x4]

Here is my final reccomendation:

Hitachi CM721F monitor, Chieftec Aluminum Dragon Mid-Tower w/PCP&P Silencer 400, Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer Optical, Microsoft Internet Keyboard, Western Digital WD1200JB hard drive, LeadTek WinFast Titanium 500TD video card, Altec Lansing 2100LA speakers, ABIT IT7 MAX motherboard, 512Mb stick of Mushkin Hi Perf Level 2 PC2100 222 DDR, Mitsumi floppy, Toshiba SD-M1612 DVD-ROM, 1.8A NW, Alpha PAL8942 Heatsink, Panasonic Panaflo FBA08A12H1A Heatsink Fan, and a Lite-On LTR-32123S 32/12/40 CD-R/RW. :cool: ?

[Thantos]

sounds real good... Love the choice i guess all that is left is top read some reviews and some price checking... Alrighty then thx guys if i have any other questions ill ask them later :)

[DaddyB]

The chipsets that supported RDRAM on the P3 were (are?) the 820 and 820E. HERE is a .PDF (http://program.intel.com/shared/products/chipsets/820/820pb.pdf) file about that chipset and HERE is some more info (http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/820/index.htm) about the chipsets.

AFAIK the i820 chipset was the first to support RDRAM but it was only single channel so the latency was really bad compared to SD or DDR RAM which is why everyone disliked RDRAM. now that its dual channel (i850, i850E) RDRAM the latency is not a real issue.

Also that asus board can use one single RDRAM module IF it is a 32 bit module (they are not available yet) AND you use a continuity and termination module (think they are called ctrimm). All RDRAM presently available on the market is 16 bit, thus you will need two modules and 2 crimms (crimms come with the board), although one review of that asus board seemed to imply that the board comes with a 256mb 32 bit module and ctrimm.

[Penguin4x4]

Just Check Out This Back Panel! Why not get an IT7? 6 USB 2.0, 2 FireWire, S/PDIF and Optical Out, and 10/100!

[Thantos]

woah that looks so cool!

Whoa daddyb and peguin u guys know alot about this stuff.. only wish this newbie (me) could know wht u guys do... Everyone else I love your comments and help.. If things continue as they are i might have my comp in no time :)

[Penguin4x4]

ASUS has a new mobo, the P4T533, comes with a 512Mb stick of 32 bit PC1066,(they cal it RIMM4200,:rolleyes: ,). Costs more than $300, but it can be pushed to 150FSB with stock 4x RAM multiplier,(drop that sucker down to 2x, then try to push to 200, it'll work,:D ). Review Here (http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/Motherboards/asus_p4t533.shtml).

[Thantos]

ya thats the one I was talking about before however no one supplies it with the rdram...

[Thantos]

I am conflicted between motherboards to use... Peguin U suggested the gigabyte ga8irXP, the soyo Sy P4s Dragon Ultra, and the Abit IT7
And Daddyb u suggested the Asus p4t533

These are all very good boards based on the reviews ive gone and read....

I like the ergonomic design of the Abit IT7 but am afraid about the fact that it is legacy free and only supports usb connections via printer scanner etc... Will this become normal in the future and could this pose a problem right now??

The asus p4t533 is very good but uses rd ram supporting the single slot system for 32 bit sticks however they will be quite expensive.... But overall the board looks great and seems to be stable!

The soyo is bursting with features and stability however wht is this thing about sis incompatibility issues? This board is promising with all the stuff it comes with and its slightly above average speed.

The gigabyte seems so tempting as well it has most of the features that the others do and also offers alot of stuff i am alittle hasty because it says the it can use a maximum of 2100 ram isnt there something faster?

Once again I need all the help I can get u all have been helpfull! Thx!

BTW is there any difference between the different brands? They say Soyo is not as good but wht do u guys think?

[Penguin4x4]

Originally posted by Thantos
I am conflicted between motherboards to use... Peguin U suggested the gigabyte ga8irXP, the soyo Sy P4s Dragon Ultra, and the Abit IT7
And Daddyb u suggested the Asus p4t533

These are all very good boards based on the reviews ive gone and read....

I like the ergonomic design of the Abit IT7 but am afraid about the fact that it is legacy free and only supports usb connections via printer scanner etc... Will this become normal in the future and could this pose a problem right now??

The asus p4t533 is very good but uses rd ram supporting the single slot system for 32 bit sticks however they will be quite expensive.... But overall the board looks great and seems to be stable!

The soyo is bursting with features and stability however wht is this thing about sis incompatibility issues? This board is promising with all the stuff it comes with and its slightly above average speed.

The gigabyte seems so tempting as well it has most of the features that the others do and also offers alot of stuff i am alittle hasty because it says the it can use a maximum of 2100 ram isnt there something faster?

Once again I need all the help I can get u all have been helpfull! Thx!

BTW is there any difference between the different brands? They say Soyo is not as good but wht do u guys think?

Yep, all printers, scanners, eetc. are now becoming USB-only. You can use PC3200 or PC2700, but they wouldn't reach their full speed with an Intel board, which is why I suggested the Mushkin 2100 earlier. SiS chipsets don't use Intel drivers, that's the only incompatibility issue. Soyo has a reputation for being bad overclockers, but I have no expierence with this brand. I would go with the IT7 nontehless, however, if legacy free is an issue, go with the GA-8IRXP.:)

[DaddyB]

The Asus P4T533-C (the one at ncix.com) uses normal 16 bit RDRAM which is available now, if you get it I would highly reccomend getting PC1066 RDRAM (you will need 2 sticks of RDRAM for this board). It might be hard to find PC1066 but it should be worth it, if you decide on this board w/RDRAM and cant find any 1066 let us know and we'll help you find some.

The Asus P4T533 uses 32 bit RDRDAM which is not available yet, this board would only need one stick of RAM since 32 bit RDRAM acts as 2 sticks.

Intel chipsets (i think they are the best for P4 systems) only support RDRAM or up to PC2100 DDR RAM. you could buy PC2700 RAM and use it if you plan on taking the FSB up to 166mhz. you can buy boards based on the SIS chipset that support PC2700 DDR RAM but i think that intel chipsets are more likely to have no compatability issues.

Most scanners/pinters that you can buy now are USB or even USB 2.0, so I dont think that the Abit not having serial/com ports will be a real issue unless you have a printer or something that you will be using with this board that uses a serial cable. I would kind of like having the serial/com ports just in case (besides my printer uses a serial port) but you would just have to make sure that anything you buy is USB, not serial.

If I were buying a P4 system I would definetly get one with PC1066 RDRAM and probably the asus board (P4T533 or P4T533-C) but ill bet that PC1066 will cost a lot right now

[Penguin4x4]

$190 per 256Mb Stick (http://www.mushkin.com/cgi-bin/Mushkin.filereader?3d19dac603fca1aa2740c0a80102067 b+EN/products/990913)

[Thantos]

Very interesting...

The prob is I have a budget of 1000 $ so that could put a damper on rd ram which sux alot so i dunno the p4 sounds good with these boards but the amds are cheaper

I like the p4 but am afaid they wont give me enuff boost with the ddr ram


BTW i have a scanner and printer that use serial so im not sure... I guess i could network the 2 with my exisiting comp..

I was wondering if there was a board that could use both types of ram?

[Penguin4x4]

RDRAM is the best setup for P4. The more bandwidth you give this thing, the faster and faster it goes! Take a look at this one, (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/products/8ihxp.htm) and this (http://www.asus.com/mb/socket478/p4t533-c/overview.htm) before you make your decision, though... :D But like I said before: Hitachi CM721F monitor, Chieftec Aluminum Dragon Mid-Tower w/PCP&P Silencer 400, Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer Optical, Microsoft Internet Keyboard, Western Digital WD1200JB hard drive, LeadTek WinFast Titanium 500TD video card, Altec Lansing 2100LA speakers, Mitsumi floppy, Toshiba SD-M1612 DVD-ROM, 1.8A NW, Alpha PAL8942 Heatsink, Panasonic Panaflo FBA08A12H1A Heatsink Fan, and a Lite-On LTR-32123S 32/12/40 CD-R/RW, with whatever the hell motherboard/memory combonation you want!:D

[Thantos]

Very cool :D I was wondering the approx. price for this setup? I love the abit mobo but if i were to choose the rd ram is there an alternative?

I was also wondering does it include str support?

[Penguin4x4]

Monitor (http://www.provantage.com/scripts/go.dll/pgrab/fp_20077)

Hard Drive (http://avlogic.com/product.cgi?code=11009706)

DVD-ROM (http://avlogic.com/product.cgi?code=11341468)

CD-R/RW (http://www.micropro.com/item.htm?item_id=CDLI321040)

Case and Power Supply (http://www.directron.com/dx01sld.html)

Mouse (http://www.thenerds.net/productpage.asp?pn=458569)

Keyboard (http://www.1steweb.net/web/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=eWeb&Product_Code=KB-MS-INT-PRO&Category_Code=KB-MICROSOFT&INO=001618)

Speakers (http://www.compuplus.com/insidepage.php3?refer=pricegrabber.com&id=123)

Video Card (http://www.spartantech.com/product.asp?PID=VTGF3TI50064A&m1=pg)

Heatsink Fan (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=127&manufactory=1560&DEPA=1)

Processor (http://www.1steweb.net/web/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=eWeb&Product_Code=CP-P4-1800D-R)

A Dual Channel PC800 RDRAM memory setup would give you 3.2Gb/s bandwidth, so it would be as fast as an Athlon XP+ with PC3200 DDR

[DaddyB]

lol, thats about $300 canadian x2 (2 sticks) = $600 bucks (for the pc1066). I am pretty sure that there are no boards that support both. if you wanted to get that board you could get some cheap RDRAM (oxymoron) while you wait for pc1066 prices to fall. incidently i do have 2 sticks of 64 mb pc600 rdram (128mb total) that i dont use but i think you would want at least pc800.

ncix.com (http://www.ncix.com/canada/productdetail.php?sku=7953&PHPSESSID=b52e6de1f421015bbba764e7971f742d) has 128mb pc800 RDRAM (Corsair) for $111, so $222 for 2 sticks, thats close to ddr ram prices (canadian). that should work with the i850E chipset, its has an "E" in the model number (there is RDRAM without the "E" for $108 but i dont think that would work with the i850e chipset, only the i850)

[DaddyB]

pccanada.com has the P4 1.8A for $269 and the asus P4T533-C for $259, thats $530 plus tax (I think they have a discount if you go there and pay in cash). I would still buy the RAM at NCIX (pccanada has 128mb pc800 for $89 but it doesnt say what brand it is and i dont think it will work with the i850E chipset).

so $530 plus $222 = $750, plus tax = $862 plus $10 for shipping from NCIX is <insert drum roll here>

$872

...ouch that wouldnt leave much for other components, how much does all that other stuff (monitor, case, hard drive, cdrom ect.) come to anyway?

[Thantos]

Ouch thats a downer... hmm.. ok.. i think the other components equal if i get oem.. about 350 or so canadian so i wonder if rd ram it the way to go... but there is no purpose purchasing a p4 if i dont get the ram so ya...


I guess the contenders are as follows for boards:
Ddr: Abit t7i (never found out if it supported srt)
rd ram: Asus p4t533 i850?

[DaddyB]

STR as in suspend to RAM? I think it would, most motherboards support that feature but they may not call it that. in my bios i have to go to ACPI Suspend type and select S3(STR) but i dont bother with that stuff I just leave my comp on and turn the monitor off.

There's nothing wrong with athlon XPs you could always go that route, the last time i checked an xp1800 was about 170 and the xp1900 is over $200, xp2000 is $250 +(canadian). it will require better (probably louder) cooling especially if you plan to overclock it and you might get a good motherboard from $130-$200. You can get some good pc2700 ram for under $200.

[Thantos]

I was wondering about the amd path
the stuff penguin suggested could be implied here too but the thing is wht would last longer and be fster/ more reliable the p4 1.8 ghza or an amd of equivalent price?

[DaddyB]

thats tough to predict but there is nothing that these processors cant do that a faster one could. from now on the only 2 reasons to buy a new processor are:

1 - bragging rights
2 - more frames per second in future games but newer video cards will take almost all of the work away from the cpu, so you wont even need a faster processor for that.

The P4s will hit 3.0Ghz by the end of the year, maybe more if AMDs chips start to catch up and I imagine the P4 will keep going up to 3.5Ghz or so. The new intel chip dubbed Prescott (pentium 5?) will be out sometime next year. The prescott will most likely not be compatible with current intel boards.

The athlon XP (Tbred) will go up to a pr rating of 2600+, then the new Barton CPUs will take over. it will have a 512Kb cache, whereas the XP currently only has 256Kb. that will make the cpu perform a lot better and is supposed to start at xp2800 i believe. but i am not very confident in AMD's ability to push the athlon XP core very much further. they say they will so i guess they will but it seems to me that they are having trouble getting the core faster, i may be wrong. the barton will work on current amd boards AFAIK. The new AMD hammer is due out at the begining of next year and will not work on current boards.

So if 3 years from now you find your computer isnt fast enough for your taste then you will be able to upgrade it to a significantly faster one (i mean just buy the new processor, you wont need a new motherboard). If you buy the P4 board with pc1066 then upgrading to the fastest intel CPU (in the future when its dirt cheap) will be easy. AMD will not increase their FSB untill the hammer so if you buy an AMD board it will work with the barton. either way 2 or 3 years from now you will be able to buy a cpu that is 1000Mhz faster then the one you will be buying for like $100 and just pop it in your board if you want.

that being said your computer will do anything you want it to for a long time, i do video editing on my 1.3Ghz P4 and my xp1800 @ 1750mhz (xp2100 speed) and thats about the most demanding thing you can do on a comp (aside from 3-d graphics rendering, that will take as much cpu power as you have even if you had a 10000Ghz cpu). I honestly cannot think of anything that cant be done on todays computers. the only thing that the next generation will bring is being able to play quake 6 while you edit a movie and play a dvd on the tv out, seriously thats not necessary. so i dont think you will really "need" to upgrade but like i said you will be able to upgrade your cpu with either system.

You could look for a board with AGP 8X so that you will be able to run future video cards at full speed (even if the board only has AGP 4X you will be able to run the cards), its taken about 6 years for agp 1X to become obsolete.

Think of an athlon xp1800 as a P4 1.8GHz, they perform very similarly, one is not really better then the other. I dont really think one would be better then the other in the future but i do think you will be able to upgrade a socket 478 P4 board to a 3.5Ghz or faster cpu one day and the amd board to xp3000 or so (AMD may go higher before they switch from socket A, they may not make it that high).

Im trying to let you know where the market is going so you can make a better decision of which cpu/board you think will be better in the future and at the same time point out that you will never need a faster cpu but someday you, I and everybody else will buy one.

hope that gives you some insight, and hopefully peguin and others will post their opinions. thats where i see the market going and why i think that the system you will build is going to be good enough for a long time, perhaps othe people have a different view.... I didnt intend for the post to be that long, it just kinda happened :p

[DaddyB]

Wait im changing my vote, apparently the asus P4T533-C has a maximum fsb of 150, so if you really want to overclock theh i dont think you will want that board.

check out this thread for some other suggestions:

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96716

[Penguin4x4]

EPoX (http://www.epox.com/html/english/default.htm), ASUS (http://www.asus.com/index.html), ABIT (http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/products.jsp?pSEARCH_PRODUCT_TYPE=MotherBoard), and Gigabyte (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/products/products.htm) are still youre best bets regardless of platform. The above mentioned ASUS board DaddyB was referring to does OC to 150, but that is with a 4x RAM multiplier. Drop it down in the BIOS to 3 and it will go higher. Have fun beating yourself up! :D

[Thantos]

This is so confusing!!! Ok the bus is 150 i think it goes up to 175 while supposedly p4b533 is unlimited bus?!? other than that it is imparent that the pentium 5 and next generation Amds will be out around january?? If thats true then wouldnt the pentium 4 be phased out in 2 years? I am debating about this since the boards can't really support that speed to this day... If i were to change cpus during the next 2 years they wouldnt be able to support say a 3.5 ghz? Ive checked the boards and they support up to 2.7 so this is just wierd and id like to know which will phase out first the rd or the ddr (i think penguin u said that rd would but u didnt seem sure)


Thx for the help guys

[Penguin4x4]

With P4 boards, they FSB uses 4 data pipes, so stock "A" series run at 4x100=400FSB, while the newer "B" series runs 4x133=533FSB. Unlike AMD procesors, Intel's can only be overclocked by raising the FSB. So, if you ran a 1.8A with 150MHz FSB, 50% faster than stock, it would run 2.7GHz, or 50% faster. There is no certainty, just speculation, when it comes to knowing which memory type will die first.:)

[Thantos]

man ok i c then... but by this then maybe i should wait until december to buy.. i mean the processors will be cheaper.. and the p5 might be on the market with better ram and better mobos

[Penguin4x4]

It is your decision, you can just buy all the parts except the motherboard procssesor, and memory, right?:D

[Thantos]

true

but i was doing the calculations and i found the parts were of good price however the ram cpu and mobo took most of the cash... I was wondering if there would be a purpose to purchase it all b4 i get the rest?

[Penguin4x4]

Well, you can use your old motherboard/processor/RAM with the new components...:D

[Thantos]

Wish i could but i have a compaq comes with onboard video.. i have a 2x dvd rom a 4 2 8 cdrw 224 sd ram so i dunno if i can put the parts on..

But in any case i appreciate the help u guys have given me im gonna continue research and if i have any qs ill know where to ask... :)

[Penguin4x4]

"i have a compaq comes with onboard video.. i have a 2x dvd rom a 4 2 8 cdrw 224 sd ram "

Sounds like my POS 8x DVD-ROM, 8/2/24 CD-RW, 5400 Maxtor, 1GHz Celery, 256Mb SDRAM Compaq; takes it 5 minutes to fully boot up WinXP, GDPOFS,:D

[DaddyB]

I still think you sould build the system soon, yes the P4 and XP are near then end of line but that shouldnt matter. you can still buy older processors now (like pentiums and socket 7 processors) and they are quite cheap. dont forget even when the new intel 'prescott' is released it will be around $1000 (canadian) most likely and you wont want to pat that for it.

If you buy your system now then in 2 or 3 years time when you want to upgrade it you will be able to buy a P4 3.5ghz from ebay for $100-$250 or so, that will be close to 2000mhz faster then the 1.8A. besides like i said there is no need for all that power and the system you build will seriously kill you present one, if i remember correctly you have a cpu around 500-800mhz.

I know it kinda seems like a waste of money but computers get faster all the time and the fact that you will be able to upgrade either motherboard (amd or intel) with a much faster processor is a good thing. I think now is a really good time to buy.

[Penguin4x4]

I had a 1996 "top-of-the-line" Gateway, with a Maxtor 2Gb 5,400 ATA-33, 48Mb RAM,(HAD to buy directly from them to udgrade from 32, as the stuff from the stores didn't work ), 33.6 ISA modem, Windows 95 Plus! with Works Suite 4.0, and the "brand new" MMX 166,for only $2,400. I was using it until last August, when a friggin lightining bolt nearly caused a fire on my surge protector, and killed my modem and board. Now I got this Compaq POS,:D . Fixed the old one with a WD 10GB 5400 add-on, Gigabyte GA-6VTX, 1GHz Retail Celeron, and 160Mb RAM,(2 32Mb PC-133's, 1 128,). Needless to say I am happy with the results.:D

[Thantos]

Ic so it is advisable to buy the computer now.... However i am concerned about the rd ram its still early and the boards cant function to the best yet so would it be better to go with ddr or find a good mobo that could easily upgrade to i dunno... pc 4000 ram or something in the future? (if so which is a good mobo to do that) or is it most of the mobos can do that but just dont say it ?

[Penguin4x4]

The new dual channel DDR(Janurary,) will be incompatible with current DDR. Just get the stuff now. Microsoft just ended support for Win95 on Janurary 1 of this year,(6.5 years). So, just get the stuff now, and replace your OS when WinXP is surpassed by 2 others,(i.e., Win95 to Win2000,). Go now, buy what I listed above! NOW!:D :D . RAMBUS or DDR? Its your call, but the above mentioned brands and models are some of the best in the world. HAVE FUN!:) :) :)

[Thantos]

Very good hmmm... my call eh? Thats not too good... was your suggestion for rambus the p4s533 or p4t533?? I know you and i like the abit it7 but thats for ddr.... And other than that I need to find some nice sellers (cheap canadian prices) Thx alot penguin! :D



BTW um.. Daddyb do u think it would be cheaper to purchase any of this stuff at computer fest in september??

[Penguin4x4]

Browse their websites, but, yeah, unfortunately it is your call, :cry:. The Gigabyte and ABIT have locked PCI and AGP buses, and DDR is a good investment, nonetheless. The ABIT BD7II-RAID is pretty good too. Gigabyte GA-8IHXP is the best combonation I have found so far. Tom's Hardware is the only review so far, but its hard to trust them,(Especially when they say that RIMM4200 is faster than PC1066, its the same thing!).

[Thantos]

Dont worry Ill eventually make a choice :D so the gigabyte is good eh?

[Penguin4x4]

Supercom (http://www.supercom.ca) and Periphreal Express (http://www.pecanada.com) are the only Gigabyte distributors in Canada.

[Penguin4x4]

Need I Say More? Although I would like to know if you can lock the AGP and PCI buses. Anyone know?

[Thantos]

That was wht i was wondering when i read that u said that the gigabyte can lock the agp pci... But other than that that was the board i was thinking although the sound card kinda sux... The BD7-II is good but i was wondering would the legacy-free make all that much of a difference in the near future? Or would the ps/2 be better (i know that stuff iss cheaper)

[Penguin4x4]

Yes it is cheaper. USB is around 3 times faster than parallel or serial, but most USB mice come with USB-PS/2 adapters.:D

[Thantos]

but is totally legacy free better for a mobo?

[Penguin4x4]

No, its just giving the customer what they want and need, not another port that they'll never use, that wasted space could be filled by 2 Firewire port or something. I believe that there is a serial-USB adaptor, but I'm not sure. ABIT IT7 has the locked PCI/AGP multipliers, and apparently Mushkin's PC3000 is good to PC3500,(~220MHz FSB.), so you can run your memory asynchronously with Mushkin PC3200, or any other brand, that would get you 235, which would still be only PC3800. So, Dual Channel 1066 RDRAM is the fastest. Kingston is good to ~1300. So its still your choice.(Don't you just hate me?:D )

[Thantos]

yes i do hate you! :temper: (jk) but i was wonder for the abit it7 they have the firewire aand everything just no rd ram or ps/2 .. so im not sure about that... Also im not sure if it can support ther mushkin 3500 or not however, Im quite satiosfied its either thios for ddr or gigasbyte GA-8HIXP or Asus p4t533 for the rd...

[Penguin4x4]

Until someone can tell that the Gigabyte has locked settings, I'd go with the ABIT IT7. It only supports 2100,(Damn you Intel, damn you all to hell!), but the Hi Perf can be OCed to 200FSB@CAS 2-3-3 1T, or Purty F.F.,:) . No ISA slot, Serial, PS2, or Parellel ports, locked settings, and so on and so on, like I said a long time ago, Hitac...........aw, screw it. get all the ***** I suggested the first time and you'll be set, :cool: ?

[Thantos]

Aite :) Besides if i choose to switch over to Amd (due to priocing issues) i could always just use their twin mobo AT7! :)

[Penguin4x4]

EXACTLY

[Thantos]

That was a little persumptuous dont u think (dont worry i deserved that :))

[Penguin4x4]

Here's some case painting help if you need it. (http://www.pc-workshop.net/articles/paint101/paint101-1.shtml)
Revision:
Htachi CM721F monitor, Chieftec Aluminum Dragon Mid-Tower w/PCP&P Silencer 400, Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer Optical, Microsoft Internet Keyboard, Western Digital WD1200JB hard drive, eadTek WinFast Titanium 500TD video card, Altec Lansing 2100LA speakers, ABIT IT7 MAX motherboard, 512Mb stick of Mushkin Hi Perf Level 2 PC2100 222 DDR, Mitsumi floppy, Toshiba SD-M1612 DVD-ROM, 1.8A NW, Thermalright AX-478 Heatsink, Panasonic Panaflo FBA08A12H1A Heatsink Fan, and a Lite-On LTR-32123S 32/12/40 CD-R/RW gets my final vote.

[Thantos]

Aite thx ill take your advice :)


Daddyb ill repeat the question again...

Will it be cheaper to purchase some of this stuff at Computer Fest in September?

[Penguin4x4]

Here's a going away present:

"Blame Canada, blame Canada, when there's a problem, blame Canada!"




"All I said was that Canadian beer sucks"
"What?! I'm goin to kill you"

[Thantos]

LOL I wouldnt know.. I dont drink beer :beer: :o

[Penguin4x4]

This has to be the longest thread I have ever seen. We've been going at this a week! BUY ALREADY!:D Intel's stopped making 1.6A's so you'd better get to it so your 1.8A will still be available.:)

[Thantos]

Lol i dunno but its comprised of mainly u and me :) BTW do u know the approximate date when Radeon 10 000 will be released??

Aite Aite ill go buy :)

At least im half way to being able to get into the classifieds :D

[DaddyB]

August the 10th for the r300 and r250 (radeon 9500 and radeon 8800 respectivley or radeon 10000 and radeon 9500, names arent definet yet. its one or the other), the NV30 (geforce5?) may be out in november but i hear it might be delayed untill 2003.

BTW in response to your question yes i think prices will be cheaper at computer fest in september but thats only cause september is months away. by then intel and amd will both have a new (faster) chip or two out so prices will drop. I think you can find better deals online then you can at a computer show (dont forget you have to pay like $10 just to get in to the show).

[Penguin4x4]

By then they will have motherboards with AGP 8x, Serial ATA, and PCI-X. So, you can put off, but at least get the monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse. You'd more comforatable............ :D . Its you're decision, wait and buy the most expensive top of the line stuff, or buy now. Now that you reminded me, I'd wait. The new cards will have 512-bit GPU's and 128-bit DDR,(vs. today's 256-bit GPU and 64 bit DDR), so wait. Wait. WAIT! :rolleyes:

[Thantos]

Thats wht i was thinking i think the soyo already supports the agp 8x but i think ill wait (prices gotta drop) ill prolly buy some stuff now seeing as though those items dont go down much...

Tjhx Daddyb but dont forget if you bring a card from a bussiness company (anyone even fake) you can get in free :)

[Penguin4x4]

WHICH SOYO! TELL ME! TELL ME!

[Thantos]

I cant find it anymore but i think it was one of the ones u suggested... I lost it now! :angry: :argue:

[Penguin4x4]

the SY-P4S? The P4I Fire D.R.A.G.O.N.? They're up to AGP 4x. AGP 8x is bakwards compatible, as is PCI-X, but you wouldn't wanna bottleneck the card, would ya?

[Penguin4x4]

MSI has a new one: 648 MAX, /2002_0603_6585.htm]link (http://www.msi.com.tw/php/upload/news_files/20020603[1). Should be available in about 2 weeks.

[Penguin4x4]

Ouch, AC'97 Audio. Well, get a Sound Blaster Audigy Digital Entertainment or Audigy Gamer.

[Penguin4x4]

ABIT has one. Get it! MSI sucks at OCing (http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/pt_main_back.jsp?pPRODUCT_TYPE=MotherBoard&pMODEL_NAME=SR7-8X)

[subconcept]

Computer Fest! I always go there. Sometime there are good deals, like I got my router for 70 cad there. But like DaddyB said, alot of the deals you can find cheaper online. The show could be alot better because they dont have any cheaper product demos, or really anything cheaper then normal most of the time is like 1 - 10 dollars cheaper at most or just the normal price. I just go cause it gets me out of the house :p

Yeah when its at the cne grounds my friends dad just lets me in the back door and says remember you an employee here hehe.

And in the toronto/mississauga area the stores i shop at are:

Kv Computers (usualy have a few good deals)
Logic Computer House (a lot of brain dead staff their but decent prices. Extremly retarded service technicians. Took them 5 days to tell me that my cpu was dead)
Big Foot Computers (great staff/service and it only took them less then 5 min to tell me my cpu was dead)

[Penguin4x4]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
Here's a going away present:

"Blame Canada, blame Canada, when there's a problem, blame Canada!"


"All I said was that Canadian beer sucks"
"What?! I'm goin to kill you"


I rest my case :D :D :D

[Thantos]

Hey hey.. dont make fun of the CCountry I love :D I AM CANADIAN!

But ya..

Subconcept do u know the locations for those places?
And man these ppl who make the boards dont give up do they, every moment theres a new one springing up :)

[subconcept]

Bigfoot computers is located on 3348 Dundas Street West. the closest small intersection is Dundas and Runnymede (sp?) and the Biggest intersection thats close I think is Dundas St. W and Jane.
www.bigfootcomputers.com

Logic Computer House is located on 1590 Dundas St. East but down in mississauga, in the same complex as their a premier fitness, and is beside an Arbys. They have a markham location is thats closer.
www.logiccomputerhouse.com


Kv Computers, I cant remember the actual address, but its on browns line up the road from Sherway Gardens Mall, in the same little block as a Td bank and a tanning salon. Check the other places first, Kv is just a small place and only go their if u need a particular part that they have cheap. Email before hand because they only carry a small stock and order everythign that they need, However keep in mind they get things in within 1 - 2 days if they need it.
www.kvcomputers.com

[Penguin4x4]

Originally posted by Thantos
Hey hey.. dont make fun of the CCountry I love :D I AM CANADIAN!


Really? Thats what your Location says. Watch wrestling? Bunch of Canadians saying that America sucks and other crap like that. I'd hurt 'em, but they've got one thats like 6'8", 280. Poor me, (6'1", 226):D :D :D

[Thantos]

Thx sub :)

@penguin: Arg all u tall ppl no matter bhow much basketball i play i cant get as tall as u!!! (5'6")

[Penguin4x4]

Basketball? HA! Try tennis. Seriously, that's the only thing I'm good at. Well, that and sittin on my fat ass yakking with you!:D :D :D

OK, Htachi CM721F monitor, Chieftec Aluminum Dragon Mid-Tower w/PCP&P Silencer 400, Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer Optical, Microsoft Internet Keyboard, Western Digital WD1200JB hard drive, Altec Lansing 2100LA speakers, ABIT SR7-8X motherboard, 512Mb stick of Mushkin PC2700 DDR, Mitsumi floppy, Toshiba SD-M1612 DVD-ROM, 1.8A NW, Thermalright AX-478 Heatsink, SoundBlaster Audigy Gamer, Panasonic Panaflo FBA08A12H1A Heatsink Fan, and a Lite-On LTR-32123S 32/12/40 CD-R/RW, and whatever turns out to be the best - Matrox, nVidia, 3DLabs, or ATI - for the video card. THAT IS MY FINAL FRIGGIN ANSWER!

[Thantos]

I c u changed the mobo.. reasons?

[Penguin4x4]

AGP 8x compliant

[Thantos]

ic ic thx

[Penguin4x4]

Have fun! BTW, I added a sound card and different memory not just a new motherboard. AC'97 isn't all that good.

[mmcshmi11]

Hey penguin, where did you get the sr7-8x?? I've been looking for it.

[mmcshmi11]

Wait, did you get it from ComputerHQ? and how good is it for o/c?