I'm building a computer - please HELP ME decide what to buy!

[compuchick]

:eh?: I'm not an overclocker, but I am building a computer. You guys definitely seem to know your hardware well! So I'm asking your advice. It has been a while since I built my P2 450MHz, and I am not familiar with the new hardware out there. Please give me a hand! ^^

I want to know what products are GOOD and make sure they are COMPATABLE. Nothing would suck worse than buying parts that can't work well together.

I already have: CD drive, floppy drive, mouse, keyboard, and a 45GB 7200ATA IBM hard drive.

I want:

1. CPU: Pentium4 1800 (more or less). Seems to be the best value on the market right now.

2. RAM: 2 DDR 512MB ram chips. What are good brands, does it matter? (I'm choosing DDR...Is RDR twice as good, enough to be worth twice the price? I doubt it...)

3. Motherboard: I want integrated sound, SB pro or SB16 is enough. Can a normal motherboard handle 1024MB RAM? Is buying a CPU-motherboard combo the way to go?

4. I plan on sharing a cable modem connection between my new computer and my old one (in same room). For this I need a network card and a router, right? Wtf is LAN integration in a motherboard? Is that superior to a PCI network card?

5. A very good video card, but not the best out there. I don't play that much of 3d-graphics-intense games.

6. Case and fans: simple and inexpensive, but good quality.

7. Monitor: either 19" or 21", good quality important.

Please please please please help me out! Any info is welcome, thanks so much!

:compuchick

[Monaco]

hi compuchick, welcome to the forums!

I'm not much of a P4 fan, but I know this- RDRAM does not outrun DDR by very much in real life, and is not worth the price premium IMHO. I always goto www.Crucial.com for all my RAM, they are very high quality (Micron chips) and pretty cheap, usually free shipping too.

As for motherboards- I don't know, but I do know that onboard LAN is just as good as a PCI card these days. Combos can be good I guess, if it's the items you want. Usually bundles combine the most unpopular items so they can unload em quickly.

Medium-strength vid card these days is probably a GF3 Ti200 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=48&manufactory=1387&DEPA=1), only $113 right there. Power to run most any game, plus gobs of overclocking potential.

Case fans- check out www.nexfan.com and www.directron.com, they usually have a huge selection at good prices. As far as I'm concerned, a fan is a fan is a fan heh heh

hope some of this was helpful :)

[h20link]

mmmm this might help you a little bit (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93171) i think you're probably better off running RDRAM with a p4 though. LAN integration is a built in ethernet port on your mobo, i think this is found on a lot of server boards....(as far as i know anyways) i don't know if you'll see a performance difference or not.

also, i would recommend a PCI sound card, as onboard sound will absorb some of your cpu resources...IMHO it's better to spend 50 bucks or so for the better sound/performance that you will receive. anyways,

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!!!

I hope you learn a lot (as i have)

[krott5333]

You can pick up a SB Live Value for $18.

[Arkaine23]

Welcome to the forums Compuchick!!!

I recommend www.newegg.com for most of your parts.

fans- Sunon 80mm 48.5 cfm fans are pretty darn good and not annoyingly loud

vid card- Radeon 8500 retail should do you proud and last a good while as far as newer games are concerned. Also has the ability to run 2 monitors if you happen to have a 2nd.

Ram- DDR for the price. The motherboard you get should list what it can support as far as MB of ram goes.

P4- 1.6 or 1.8 should do great. If you get a board with OC options, a mild overclock to 2 Ghz should be very easy without a lot of extraneous effort.

Monitor- I use a Viewsonic. Sony is also very high quality and carries the price tag to prove it. Look for a low dot-pitch (the space between the pixels).

Any cheap PCI soundcard should be ok (creative already mentioned) if you're not hooking it up to some major speakers.

Onboard LAN or $10 network card, either way is fine.

Router- Probably will have to get a 4-port. I use a Linksys, so do most of my friends.

[Dissolved]

Chick? as in girl? :D

[Johnny Knoxville]

RDRAM is not double the price of DDR, its like $10 more, and it delivers the bandwidth the P4 needs. But if you want to overclock over 140FSB then that's a different matter.

[lonewolf1983]

ram: crucial rocks, go for their pc2700 if you can get it
if price is too high, get only 512 instead, better to have 512 of good ram rather than 1024 of crappy.
Motherboard : anything based on the SIS645dx chipset or the latest intel 845
you can get one with onboard LAN and 5.1 onboard sound
Both are perfectly good, performance is good,and sound quality is equal of the SBlive

as for your internet connection, you can use the onboard LAN to connect to your old via a crossover cable,and another LAN card to connect to the broadband modem.
vid card go for a GF3ti,radeon 8500LE or gf4mx440
sunon make good case fans

monitor wise grab something with a trinitron tube,flat and they look great.

didnt see a new case in the price here, you will want something with at least 300-350w and needs to be p4 compatible

[compuchick]

Hahaha yes, chick as in female. Shocking? I suppose we are semi-rare in the gaming/computing world.

Thanks for your input!!! Let me process all of it and I'll post any other questions I might have.

:compuchick

[Penguin4x4]

everything that lonewolf1983 said, but keep in mind Mushkin for memory and Samsung, Sony, IBM, and Viewsonic for mointors. RDRAM is the best bandwidth possibilty for P4, as 1066 Mushkin or Kingston has better bandwidth than PC3200 DDR, but whatever,:D . I would go with ABIT's IT7 MAX, Mushkin PC2700, Samsung SyncMaster 955DF; Sony's GDM-F520, HMD-A440, CPD-G420S, or CPD-G410R; NEC MultiSync FE950+; Hitachi's CM715 or CM815+; ViewSonic P95f+; or IBM's P275 or P97 for the monitor, Kingwin's KT-436 case with PC Power & Cooling Silencer 400 or Antec TruePower 430 for the power supply. Hope this helps. :)

[WyrmMaster]

Originally posted by compuchick
Hahaha yes, chick as in female. Shocking? I suppose we are semi-rare in the gaming/computing world.

Thanks for your input!!! Let me process all of it and I'll post any other questions I might have.

:compuchick

You could say that:D

I think we only have 3 or 4 full time female members ( i sure hope i didnt miss anyone, il be in trouble)

As for your hardware question id say you have gotten some good recomendations so far. I dont do much with the P4 platform, so i dont know what to recommend, but i have usually tried to stay away from onboard sound and that sort of thing, although some of the new boards come with pretty good onboard stuff. www.newegg.com is a great source for hardware, i just ordered a new CPU from them today.

O, and welcome to the forums, and if you stick around here longenough you will end up an overclocker:D

[Penguin4x4]

Yep WyrmMaster, onboard audio is finally good. If a board says it has AC'97 Audio on board, lonewolf1983 hit it on the head: "sound quality is equal of the SBlive". :D

[lonewolf1983]

AC97 can be pretty bad quality
id recommend a 5.1 channel onboard solution such as the Cmedia 8738 is very good, equal to the SBlive :)

[Penguin4x4]

Oh is it the Cmedia 8738? My bad. I get 'em mixed up.

[compuchick]

Hmm, what's the difference between say a P4 1.7 socket478 and just a plain P4 1.7?

[Penguin4x4]

They are the same. Some use 256K cache,(Williamette,) Others, 512(Northwood.)

[CPFitz14]

I would reccomend the Asus p4s533 and a p4 1.6a northwood. The Asus has onboard sound (c media) and onboard lan. Plus it also has ata 133 support. I think that the mobo should cost around $110, and the CPU should be around $135. Newegg is a great place and also www.googlegear.com And by the way, WyrmMaster is right, if you hang around long enough, you won't be able to resist overclocking. At least I can't.

-CPFitz-

[Penguin4x4]

You can forget about that 1.6A. Intels stopped making them. get 'em while you can! Any ASUS; ABIT IT7 MAX and TH7II-RAID;and Gigabyte GA-8IHRP/8IXRP, are the best P4 boards right now.

[compuchick]

Why'd they stop making them, is it buggy or problematic?

[Monaco]

heh, well, they were problematic to Intel!

A 1.6A will overclock reliably to 2200-2600mhz or so. Performnace of a $350 chip for $120 :D

That, plus the market is drying up for, ahem, 'low-speed' CPUs like the 1.6. Intel is just consolidating their product line.

[HaywirE]

Pentium?


Get a AMD.

108 Dollars for a 1900 AMD Athlon Xp, And PCCHIPS 810LMR W/ LAN and onboard AC97.

You can get a soundblaster live 5.1 if you want the best bang for the buck..


Costs 108 Dollars

Www.accubyte.com

or www.econopc.com

Best Bang for the buck videocard

eVGA ACS Cooling GeForce 4 MX440 For 94 Dollars off www.evga.com w/ like 4 dollar cooling.

And a Antec 1040B Case w/ 300WATT PSU For 90.

[compuchick]

monitor-wise, is $205 plus SH good for this:

KDS AV-195TF 19inch 18VIS .24MM FD TRINITRON 1600X1200 COLOR MONITOR

is KDS a good brand?

I had a ViewSonic PS790 and love it. How does it compare?

thanks!!

[Hookem]

What ever you do compuchick do not buy a "PCchips" anything...they have to be the absolute worst mobo's on the planet...pure junk...save yourself some agony and stay away from PCchips...

[Monaco]

KDS is very well known for being one of the best 'value' brands of monitors.

Don't expect a whole lot of features, but do expect a great picture- from what I have heard most KDSs use the Sony Trinitron picture tube.

For that particular monitor, I usually see it for sale at CompUSA or whatever for between $150 and $200. You could probably find a better price than what you've got. I suggest shopping around a bit more, preferably local to you- shipping costs on monitors is totally insane :eek:

[HaywirE]

Originally posted by Hookem
What ever you do compuchick do not buy a "PCchips" anything...they have to be the absolute worst mobo's on the planet...pure junk...save yourself some agony and stay away from PCchips...


Hmmmmmmm...


PCCHIPS Are Decent motherboards, i know many companies that use PCChips, Or you could use ECS.

[compuchick]

:eek: I just realized that my hard drive is only ATA100. Will I be able to run it on an ATA133 system? What parts would be affected by going with an ATA100 system? What besides mobo and harddrive are related to the ATA system?

:compuchick

[Jon]

Originally posted by compuchick
:eek: I just realized that my hard drive is only ATA100. Will I be able to run it on an ATA133 system? What parts would be affected by going with an ATA100 system? What besides mobo and harddrive are related to the ATA system?

:compuchick

ATA133 is perfectly backwards compatible with ATA100. It won't make a difference at all.

[Penguin4x4]

If you can swing it, get one of these, (http://www.sharpsystems.com/tmplproduct_T1820.asp) if not, the Samsung SyncMaster 955DF; Sony's GDM-F520, HMD-A440, CPD-G420S, or CPD-G410R; NEC MultiSync FE950+; Hitachi's CM715 or CM815+; ViewSonic P95f+; or IBM's P275 or P97 for the monitor

[compuchick]

Is ATA133 distinctively superior to 100? How can you tell, what does it affect performance-wise?

:compuchick

[Penguin4x4]

Single drive, noticeable. RAID 0, you'll definetly notice.

[compuchick]

SiS and Cmedia 8738 don't seem to be available on RDRAM mobos...is the Realtec ALC650 6-channel CODEC inferior to the CMEDIA?

I'm looking at the Asus P4T533-C i850E P4 (533FSB) Skt478 RDRAM ATX Motherboard w/Audio, S/PDiF Out Module.

[compuchick]

Also, lonewolf said:
"ram: crucial rocks, go for their pc2700 if you can get it
if price is too high, get only 512 instead, better to have 512 of good ram rather than 1024 of crappy."

really? better to have 512 of 2700 than 1024 of 2100?

[Penguin4x4]

Yep. Here is something I use

1Gb PC-66 SDRAM~512Mb PC133 SDRAM~128Mb PC2100 DDR~64Mb PC1066 RDRAM.

Double the bandwidth~half of the memrory

The least amount of RAM sticks the faster

[Krusty]

Originally posted by compuchick
really? better to have 512 of 2700 than 1024 of 2100?

Lonewolf didn't mean it that way when he said it. If you are not overclocking, you will not see any difference between pc2100 and pc2700.

What he meant was that Crucial brand pc2100 is FAR better than OCZ brand pc3000. It's the brand name that counts and I would definately recommend spending the extra cash for a brand name, such as Crucial, Corsair, or Mushkin.

That is, of course, if you are getting a DDR motherboard. I'm not a big pentium 4 guy, so I don't know much about RDRAM, but I think rambus is the only company that makes it. From what I have heard, you will definately see a difference between RDRAM and DDR on the newer P4 systems, so perhaps the RDRAM is the better way to go.

[Penguin4x4]

Link (http://www.mushkin.com/cgi-bin/Mushkin.filereader?3d2499eb1af84e20273fc0a80102065 0+EN/catalogs/4526)

[compuchick]

OKAY, I think I have narrowed down my decision.

I need serious help, however, in ensuring that the parts I want are absolutely compatable. I am looking at normal speeds, not overclocking potential, as my basis of comparison. PLEASE help!!!

P4 Northwood 1.6 1.8 or 2.0

512MB of PC1066 RDRAM. I found a good deal on some Kingston 256 ram sticks, since you have to run RDRAM in pairs.
*Mushkin sells Kingston RDRAM.
------>the question: WTF is the difference between ECC and non-ECC?!?!?!
ecc RDRAM (http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80466-K)
non-ecc RDRAM (http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80456-K)

These two motherboards Asus P4T533-C and Gigabyte GA-8iHXP SEEM to be all that is compatable with PC1066 RDRAM:
Asus P4T533-C (http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240258)
Gigabyte GA-8iHXP (http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240612)

What do I get?

[Penguin4x4]

Link (http://www.crucial.com/library/glossary.asp#E). ASUS Motherboard.

[compuchick]

I'll go with ECC then.
The ASUS board looks great, but I am concerned about one thing.

This motherboard on googlegear says:

"*Note: Use only the tested and qualified 16-bit 1066MHz RIMM listed below. Other RIMM manufactured by other vendors may not be suitable for this motherboard.
Vendor Type Size Model:
Samsung 1066-35 128MB MR16R0828BN1-CM9 "

and I want to use Kingston 256MB RIMM.

ALSO!!! When RAM says the manufacturer is Kingston, does that mean it is only Kingston chips on CrapBrandX board, or that it is entirely Kingston? HOW DO YOU KNOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Link: is this KINGSTON RDRAM??? (http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80466-K)

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

[Penguin4x4]

RAM is RAM. Yes that is Kingston RDRAM

"*Note: Use only the tested and qualified 16-bit 1066MHz RIMM listed below. Other RIMM manufactured by other vendors may not be suitable for this motherboard.

Keyword: MAY NOT.

Samsung makes the RAM chips, so they are the first ones to come out with a type of RAM, so they may not have updated this page yet. 1066 is 1066. Hope this helps.

[Penguin4x4]

RDRAM must be purchased in pairs. 2 256Mb sticks would be perfrect.

[compuchick]

Thank you so much Penguin-san, you've helped me a lot!!! ^^

[compuchick]

Is Geforce3 Ti-200 128MB compatable wtih this setup? (I decided on the P4 Northwood 2.0GHz)

:compuchick

[Penguin4x4]

Of course not. It will cause instantaneous shorting of every component in your computer.














LOL. Just kidding
:beer:

[Monaco]

I'd skip the ECC if I were you. It used to be handy back in the day when RAM actually had a chance of dumping errors, but nowadays if a RAM stick develops any problems it just stops working. Besides, ECC will not 'fix' a partially-busted RAM stick anyway.

In a non-24/7, non-server role, ECC RAM is uneeded. Plus, its quite a bit slower than normal non-ECC RAM, and more expensive- why drop the $$ if you don't really need it? :D

[compuchick]

Is it actually slower? Because it is the same price.

[Monaco]

yep, it has to be slower. It takes a little extra time to get that parity bit and compare it to the rest of the data. Error checking just takes a few extra CPU cycles.

From what I have seen, it is 5 to 15% slower than regular RAM. That is not much, but why suffer a speed loss for basically no reason?

[batboy]

I second the motion, get non-ECC memory. ECC memory is mainly for "mission critical" data and will have slightly less performance.

Compuchick, I answered your post in the memory section.

Picking which CPU to get depends on what overclock you're trying to achieve. I have a 2.0a Northwood, but I'm probably going to upgrade to a 2.26 gig Northwood. If you're on a really tight budget, get a 1.8a and the Abit TH7-II. That way you can fix the AGP/PCI buses and still run 133 FSB to reach 2.4 gig system speed and have the memory running full bore at 1066 MHz.

If you're after a higher overclock and have more cash, the 2.26 gig is an excellent overclocker. If you run the memory bus at 3X on the TH7-II, then if you're lucky, crank the FSB up to 177 for 3 gig and still be within memory spec. Excellent cooling will be needed and of course not all CPUs will reach that high. A good compromise would be the 1.6a running at 177 FSB for 2.82 gig.

The Asus P4T533-C should be a good mobo, but is rather expensive right now. It's hard to beat the Abit TH7-II for cost, dependability, overclocking features, and all the BIOS upgrades available.

[compuchick]

Since Aluminum cases offer better heat dissipation, would that not mean that they eminate more heat than a mostly-plastic case? Anyone know a good place to get a normal case?

Also, if I'm not overclocking, is the heatsink/fan that comes with the P4 2.0 good enough? Or should I invest in a different one?

[batboy]

If you're not overclocking, then the retail fan/heatsink will be good enough, although I would still use a good thermal paste like Arctic Silver rather than that crappy black heat pad that comes with the retail cooler.

If you're buying the 2.0a Northwood and are NOT overclocking it, then you can get the cheaper PC800 RDRAM. I have a 2.0a and Samsung PC800 right now (see my signature). The listed 2.7 gig overclock was the max, normally I run it at 2.5 gig.

If you're buying the PC-1066 RDRAM, then I really think you should get the 1.8a Northwood and overclock it to 2.4 gig (133 FSB which is a standard speed). The 2.4b Northwoods are the same thing, so technically you're doing the same thing that Intel does, except you're saving lots of cash (1.8a=$164 and 2.4b=$386 at newegg.com).

As for the case, aluminum is great looking, if you do LAN parties and want to impress folks, then get one. But, they are more expensive and although they do dissipate heat a little better, it's not really much. A regular case with a couple of case fans will do the same job. A good power supply is critical with those P-4's and it needs to be a P-4 compliant unit too. The Antec True Power 430 watt PS is a nice one. Here is a good place for cases.

http://www.directron.com/

[compuchick]

Decision time :D
My setup will be (thanks to your help!!):

P4 2.0 Northwood 400MHz FSB Socket 478 processor.
-copper heatsink fan with arctic silver adhesive
Asus P4T533-C i850E P4 Northwood RDRAM ATX mother.
2 x Kingston RAMBUS RDRAM 256MB 1066MHz 32ns Memory.
Geforce3 Ti-200 128MB vid.
IBM 45GB 7200 hard drive (already owned).

I think I may get an Aluminum Chieftec AX-01SLD. Does anyone know if it is shiny or dulled metal surface?

And I am torn between 3 monitors!

-Viewsonic P95f (.25-.27 mm aperture grille, 300Mhz video input)
-Sony CPD-G410R (.24-.25mm aperture grille)
-NEC/Mitsubishi FP955 (.24mm aperture grille, shallower depth)

Which brand is best: NEC, Sony, or Viewsonic? Which would have best clarity and color?

Thanks!!!

:compuchick


http://specs.emscomputing.com/cgi-bin/specs/specs.asp?pid="979577"&sid="3d29436a00890816274241de46f0060d"&price="$345.00"

http://specs.emscomputing.com/cgi-bin/specs/specs.asp?pid="803100"&sid="3d29436a00890816274241de46f0060d"&price="$329.00"

http://specs.emscomputing.com/cgi-bin/specs/specs.asp?pid="501979"&sid="3d29436a00890816274241de46f0060d"&price="$344.00"

[compuchick]

Should I get a different heat sink fan than the one that comes with the P4 2.0 Northwood? What is considered good "Thermal Resistance"?

Where does thermal grease go? What about thermal adhesive? Do I need Arctic silver grease AND epoxy adhesive, or just one of the two? I don't want to jack my new processor by doing this wrong!!!

:Dthanks for the help, guys, you've really given me a huge hand in this!

:compuchick

[Monaco]

If you are not overclocking, any old HSF will do fine for you- the stock Intel HSF included. When it comes to P4, the stock 'sink is usually good enough even if you ARE overclocking. Don't even worry about T.D. - it's only important for the hard-core OCers.

Thermal paste goes between the CPU and the heatsink in a very very thin layer- it fills in nooks and crannies between the two, giving much better heat transfer. Paste is NOT the same as epoxy or adhesive- epoxy is PERMANENT. Pastes can be removed and reapplied if needed quite easiliy. Thermal epoxy is ONLY for when you want to glue a heatsink onto an IC forever. DO NOT use epoxy to attach your HSF to your CPU.

You might want to read up on some of the beginner's guides on the overclockers.com front page- most questions like this are answered there in some detail. Specifically, the Cooling article.

Just to let you know- you have already put in way more effort than you need on this build. Just go out and order the components, read the beginner guides, and start building! I mean, even if you buy the crappiest possible components you will still have one screamer of a machine. :D

There is no way to avoid all problems 100%- you are going to have to do some troubleshooting, guranteed. It's nearly impossible to build a system fully perfect the first time. But don't worry, we'll be here to help ya :D

As for monitors- get the cheapest one. If memory serves, all three screens you mentioned use the exact same Trinitron picture tube- all other differences are minor. Just get whichever one your wallet and your eyes like the best! :)