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Waterblock Shootout - III

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Tecumseh said:
. . . . .
The high flow rates are interesting, but how many WC'ers can
get a flow rate of 3.0 gpm? For a contest wouldn't it be better
to test all blocks at the same flow rates?

A great number to have is what head is necessary to get the
flow rates measured. Bill is it possible to separate out the
head needed for the block from the total head needed?
unless one has a 'open chamber' or a big pump,
2gpm is a realistic upper range for the typical WCing system
and, as you say, all the comparisons would be on an equal basis

the head loss can be measured with the "C/W",
a small table to show the data as JoeC does now with hsfs,
curves off a template - no biggie

but obviously I have no way to determine "the total head needed"
Owenator has described a (cheap !!) DIY manometer to roughly measure such for an assembled system

be cool

EDIT: The Overclocker
everything is related to time
someone else can extrapolate, I measure only
 
JoeC said:
Maybe the idea of a Paypal account is a good one to subsidize testing for the database. $5 from 200 people would get 10 blocks tested. I wish I could tell you we generate LOTS of money to bankroll this, but we don't.


Great discussion!

Joe

Joe, very simple to setup an account with PayPal. I think we will all be surprised how the money will flow in. Five dollars is not much for the members of O/C.
 
BillA said:
as WCing systems' and wb design becomes more sophisticated, it is predictable (and quite necessary) that the pump and wb be specified together
- as it is the pump's P-Q curve that 'enables' the wb

I would suggest that 2 flow regimes be offered for testing (select one OR the other):
- a low flow with rates of 0.5, 1.0, and 2.0 gpm, and
- a high flow with rates of 1.0, 1.5, and 3.0 gpm

note that it is a gross simplification to consider flow independently of the head necessary to achieve such

Not sure if your code of silence is still on but I have a few questions to put out front:)

So if I were to supply a block with a pinhole inlet, you would supply the head to deliver 3gpm?:D If so then this would be optimizing for your test only to rank higher in the contest.

This is a good idea which needs to be further defined I believe. Also, is your test settup readily adaptable to multi inlet/outlet designs?
 
I have given JoeC some suggested guidelines, your question is covered, but the doc will need some revising yet

"Note that a ‘low flow’ wb may be unable to achieve the maximum flow rate at any reasonable pressure, if such occurs the “C/W” will be taken at the max flow rate possible at ~ 3psi (2mH2O) pressure drop."

and

"If the wb has multiple inlets and/or outlets, you must send the necessary hose connection fitting(s) (Y, Tee, etc.)."

give JoeC a chance, all will be revealed

be cool
 
Sounds good, Sound professional, I'm in.
Only one problem, When is one considered to be commercial. I myself have been at this block-building / Super_water-cooling thing for a long time. I have a webshop, BUT unlike every single commercial entity, I'm in the forums, helping.... would that qualify me as being Shade-tree.... I hope so :)
 
In my mind, commercial is one who has a registered business name of some kind that is required to be taxed by the government in some way as it is generating real income.

ie. a business - a commercial entity in the eyes of the law that makes money.

That, to me, defines commercial.
 
Cathar said:
In my mind, commercial is one who has a registered business name of some kind that is required to be taxed by the government in some way as it is generating real income.

ie. a business - a commercial entity in the eyes of the law that makes money.

That, to me, defines commercial.

As I recall, you stated in another post (somewhere?) that you had sent a block to Bill for testing. I don't wish to be nosy or get into your bidniz, but did you and Bill make a financial arrangement for said testing? I only ask as this would establish a guideline for "commercial" block testing. I see nothing wrong with Bill allowing "commercial" entrants to help subsidize the amateurs. Perhaps he can add value by gathering a little more data and delivering a more detailed report.

Hey, perhaps Bill can become the Underwriter's Laboratory of waterblocks! "Certified by BillA" might be a necessary part of every waterblock's documentation in the future. Think of the royalty fees!:eek: Help pay for all that equipment, eh?


If this happens, Bill, I want in on the ground floor!:D

Bob
 
you fellows might be surprised to know that there is already an industry group consisting of all the European wb mfgrs
which just had their first 2 day mtg in Germany
- and indeed they are going for a 'seal'

good thing we were able to capture their engineers or we'd not have been on the moon first,
that's for sure

(but they have some ways to go to catch up with this gringo)

Bob, I have a color printer
you want a stock certificate ? (a gold seal costs extra)
a bundle of 50s will reserve your spot

be cool
 
BillA said:
Bob, I have a color printer
you want a stock certificate ? (a gold seal costs extra)
a bundle of 50s will reserve your spot

be cool

Something else to wallpaper my bathroom with, like my WorldCom stock?:D
 
at the suggestion of JoeC, am posting a DRAFT set of guidelines

-->> please do comment on these if you have suggestions

from the 'commercial' side, $90 will suffice, this includes return postage in the US
- not sure what JoeC has working regarding subsidizing individual wbs -> you need to inquire of him

no anticipated cutoff date, I'll run them as I receive them - and Joe will add to the DIY wb db
if it becomes a burden I'll provide several months notice prior to stopping

Waterblock Testing Guidelines

General Guidelines:

The requirements listed below are intended to ensure that the testing can be performed and that the results will be generally comparable between wbs of many different sizes and types. Please print and include the completed form below with your wb.

The wb will be tested as received, think about the bp’s flatness and finish before you ship it off. You don’t need me saying what a crappy finish it had.

The wb will be tested on a 10x10mm heat die simulator, which has 4 studs per the AMD mobo hole geometry specs. There are no clip (mounting) lugs, so if your wb utilizes such you must include a flat plate adaptor to set on the top of your wb which has the 4 mobo holes. Other than said adaptor plate, if needed, no mounting hardware should be sent with the wb.

If the wb has more than one inlet and outlet, you must send the necessary hose connection fitting(s) (Y, Tee, etc.). If the wb leaks it will not be tested, check it out before you ship.

The test flow rates are 0.5, 1.0, and 2.0 gpm; note that a wb with high flow resistance may be unable to achieve the maximum flow rate at any reasonable pressure, if such occurs the “C/W” will be taken at the max flow rate possible at ~ 3psi (2mH2O) pressure drop.

Note that the coolant used is distilled water with an algaecide (Simazine), no corrosion inhibitor is added; the effect on aluminum should be minimal as the wbs should not be exposed more than 36 hours. After testing aluminum wbs will be rinsed out with antifreeze.

The heat load will be 70W (actual), this is nominally equivalent to 100W per Radiate.

The wb mounting pressure will be ~10kgf (22lbf) applied across the TIM joint (90% of the AMD maximum), and obviously no ‘direct die’ waterboxes will be tested.

Think about the packaging; it will be reused to return your wb and any other pieces to you. It would be nice if you included a self-addressed adhesive label for its return. Overseas submitters might wish to include extra postage to cover the air mail cost, surface shipping can take 6 to 8 weeks, or more.

The intent of this testing is to offer DIY wb fabricators an accurate and objective appraisal of their efforts. Wb manufacturers, i.e. those who sell replicates to the public, are encouraged to contact Bill Adams to make appropriate arraignments.

Not going to get into a bunch of legalese; but you send your wb at your risk, I’ll not be responsible for anything. If you send one made out of diamond and I drop and break it, sorry – but that’s where it ends. Clear ?



Include this completed form with your waterblock


Waterblock Required Information:

Name of submitter: ____________________________________

Address: ____________________________________________

‘Name’ of wb: ________________________________________

Mark the wb, indicate how labeled here: __________________

Nominal description (length, width, thickness, connection size(s), material(s):
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________



Optional Information:

Descriptive info (several sentences or as little as you wish, this info will be included with the posted test results): wb design ‘type’, philosophy, intended use, etc.:
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________



Link to wb image to accompany optional text (will be re-sized to ‘fit’):
_http://______________________________________________
(note that I will NOT be photographing the wbs)

be cool
 
Even though I don't have a WB to test, I find this VERY exciting. Finally some quantifiable results with 'good' equipment and an experienced tester. BillA I just want to thank you in advance for your service to the H20 community. I hope everyone realizes how valuable this service and the resulting data will be.
 
Bill,

Will the reports include both a C/W vs flowrate, and a headloss vs flowrate curve?

Am I correct in believing that those two curves characterize WB performance fairly thoroughly?

Also, what units will the prettiness of the WB's be quantified with?
 
"Will the reports include both a C/W vs flowrate, and a headloss vs flowrate curve?"

yes, data will be collected for both
at this moment not sure if I or Joe will be graphing, but it will be shown

"Am I correct in believing that those two curves characterize WB performance fairly thoroughly?"

yes; knowing such one can 'match' to a pump (plus the other bits, eh ?), and understand how it will perform

"Also, what units will the prettiness of the WB's be quantified with?"

hell, I don't know - bazooms ?
(just a bud, a mouthful, big nib ???)
for example this last week I've received possibly the 2 top (?) wbs; the Atlantis and the White Water
- and the Atlantis is a knockout ! (BIG NIBS ?)
while the White Water has lots of tubes (just a bud ?)
but not so important to me as I am performance driven

open to suggestions

be cool
 
Bill, you might not want to hear this, but it would be good if all
the WBs in the competition were photographed. Yes, it would
take a little time, but it would be great for the Web and final
report. A digital camera with modest macro capability would do
the job nicely. Joe, anybody, want to lend Bill such a camera?
I'd lend you mine, but it takes a PhD to operate. :D
 
I'm performance driven too.

If it wasn't for the fact that I have a four year old, my cooling system would likely be a big pile spilling out the side of my case. (Open frame PS included.)

I just got my White Water block on Saturday. I'd have to disagree with you on looks. Very petite. Just the way I like em. And it's got three...
 
heh, yea Owenator told me my honorary PhD from MIT was 'in the mail'
- but I don't believe him (he lies, he lies)

the digital camera will be a problem as I don't have one
(and am spending every cent on 'the bench monster')

anyone have an 'oldie' ? - as a loaner is fine

be cool
 
BillA said:
for example this last week I've received possibly the 2 top (?) wbs; the Atlantis and the White Water

Bah, and the website tracking tells me that the block is still sitting in Melbourne, Australia. 'tis a long way from Victoria/Australia to Texas/USA.

Still, very happy that it's arrived safely, even if the couriers have no idea where it is.
 
I am both VERY interested in this and VERY excited to see some results once they get going. Echoing nikhsub1 here: a big thanks to you and Joe for getting this going.

just two questions for now:

first, i dont' quite understand what you mean by this line in the form:
"Mark the wb, indicate how labeled here: __________________"

second:
is there any way you can say about how long the results will be after you receive the block? this possibly depends on too many other variables (how many other blocks you have, what else you are doing, how long it takes to post to the database.....)
if you can't say that, then about how long does it take to complete the entire test process for one block?
 
looking at a bunch of wbs, how do I know whose is whose ?
-> mark it
like Cathar's, he wrote on it "trip nips"

25 hrs of 'bench time' to test (assuming no difficulties), so 1 1/2 to 2 days/wb
should be able to run within 4 or 5 days, unless I'm sent 20 wbs in one week
- no way for me to predict absolutely

be cool
 
I assumed all along that pics would be part of this; at worst, Bill A can ship to me for pics and I will ship to the owner. I'll see if somehow I can scrounge a digital, but I know from experience that the lower end models are not going to cut it.

A loaner will not work - this should be an on-going work.

I'll check my local camera shop - they have a good used selection.

Joe
 
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