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A concept: 2 heater-core in parallel

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Mercury Lenth

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Joined
Jan 18, 2003
Location
Montreal
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This concept should be a step forward toward perfection since it have high water flow in the blocks (where you must have high water flow) AND low water flow in the heater-core (where you must have low water flow), what do you think?

I’m a newb regarding WC, so any feedback will be appreciated. :)

Thanx in advance.
 
I've recently changed my dual radiator/heatercore setup from serial to parallel. In my system there is a large aluminium heatercore and a maxxpert monorad.

The difference between the two has been minimal if at all. Though I think it has reduced under load temps. Idle temps seem to be much the same.


One flaw in my system which you'd be wise to avoid is to (unlike mine) have each heatercore have it's own inlet and outlet for air. That would make alot of difference. Unfortunately you'd probably have to cut holes in the side panel and if you have a case window (as I have) you probably won't wanna do that for aesthetic reasons...
 
Good idea but you could put a silent 120mm fan between the two so it pulls air through the front radiator and pushes it through the second lowering temps but not causing noise. I might give it a go once I get some cash flow.

~THT
 
there is no reason to have low flow through the heat exchangers. no thermal properties change when discussing waterblocks or heat exchangers, the laws of heat transfer remain the same - THUS, although it is a common misconception, it is NOT better to have slow flow through a heat exchanger. fast flow through a waterblock allows more "cooler" molecules to come into contact with interior surface of the waterblock; fast flow through a heat exchanger allows more "warmer" molecules to come into contact with interior surface of the heat exchanger... thus heat is transfered more efficiently.

i know you are thinking if the water sits in the heat exchanger longer it will cool off more, and this is true that the water there will cool off more, but you cant think of the water in the loop as in segments when you have the loop continously moving water.

Your goal when you are trying to exchange heat between a fluid and a solid surface should be maximum contact between molecules. This can be achieved through a perfect balance between high turbulence and high flow rate. Low flow rates do not contribute to cooling under any circumstances, unless a lesser flow rate is the cost of advantageous turbulence. do you follow me? i can explain better if you don't, this is a common misunderstanding... i think we are doing a dis-service to our members by not making it very clear in one of the stickies that fast flow through the entire loop, including the radiator, is best.

side-note: heatexchangers in parrallel are generally regarded as advantageous and many people do this, if you want to see how others do it or what they say about it do a search for the terms "heatercore", "parrallel", "series", and "radiator". you should come up with some good input and examples.

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!
 
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IMOG is right, the properties of heate exchange dont change from waterblock to heatercore. you still want high mass flow and high turbulence with maxiumum surface area contact. he was further right when he said you cant think about the water in small chunks moving through. something most people dont realize is that the temperateure difference of the water at inlet and outlet of the various heat exchangers in the system is really not that large. its not like heating the water up to 40c at the WB and then cooling it back down to say 24c at the HC. its more like 2-5c difference at inlets/outlets...

the whole idea of a water system is to move the water fast enough to acheive an equillibrium that can dissapate the heat, not have the water stagnate...

to answer the original question though, parallel would likely be a better setup because it would have a larger temp difference across each radiator and thus allow more heat to be transferred per radiator.
 
I think that perhaps although that it's certainly theoretically true that running in parallel will give both heatercore's the highest input temp making them operate most effectively; since (as you've stated) the actual temp difference on input and output water is so low, I doubt you'd hardly notice a difference between a serial or parallel setup with the same components.

I don't know for sure, but I think input and output water temps in typical systems don't even vary as much as 1°c provided the water flow is sufficient enough.


It would be interesting if Mercury Lenth actually tested this to see if there really were any real world differences.


p.s. I'm not arguing with the theory, just with the application of it in real world situations... ;)
 
Hmm, I was thinking about going with 2 h-c because I want passive WC: NO FAN. :D

IMOG, I understand your point, but if I can get the same number of molecule (of water) to be cooled per second, but I can also get each single molecule to be cooled twice as long as normal with my 2 parallel h-c, that way the delta between inlets and outlets would be increased, thus the delta between the water and the water-block would be increase also, thus better performances...

That would be a step toward perfection, right?

Quick Q: What’s turbulence?

I was thinking of using those heat-exchangers (F & EM SERIES, about 2’ or 3’): http://www.slantfin.com/fintube.html#multi80

Hey guys, call me Merc ;)
 
I agree on this one with Mercury Lenth, another point to note is that usually the higher the difference between temperatures of 2 items the more heat is transfered, so having the two radiators in parallel means both get the hottest water possible, yielding the biggest heat transfer delta. Lastly about turbulance, yes fast flow mean more turbulance but with smooth surfaces, such as the pipes the difference is minimal. For big turbulance differences you would need some kind of ridges of uneven surfaces on the pipes, then I would reconsider this but on this one I would cast my vote for parallel setup.
 
For a start it's not theory it's fact!. water 'hanging around longer' is NOT the reason that parallel rads may work better, it's simply that you have twice the surface area...

If you go parallel do it for surface area and less backpressure/resistance, not to delude yourself ;) ...

If you're a noob, read BillAs articles on the main site under watercooling...
 
candyman and merc your ideas are close, but not quite home yet. i will try to explain more to make my point stronger and more clear, this is easy to get confused on.

IMOG, I understand your point, but if I can get the same number of molecule (of water) to be cooled per second, but I can also get each single molecule to be cooled twice as long as normal with my 2 parallel h-c, that way the delta between inlets and outlets would be increased, thus the delta between the water and the water-block would be increase also, thus better performances...

this is slightly off base, but we are talking about the difference between 2 rads in series or 2 in parallel right? So, no molecules will be getting cooled any longer in parallel than they would in series. the water doesnt slow down as it goes through the rads in parallel, the flow rate is lower through each rad because the volume of water moving through the rads is lower, but the speed with which the water moves is ~equal to that of the rads in series. So there will be no difference in water speed or the time in which molecules spend in the radiators. the rest you are right about on higher dT's being advantageous.

what is turbulence?

turbulence is rough flow. instead of the same molecules staying against the walls of the material exchanging heat, turbulence causes the molecules closer to the middle of the flow, which are cooler and have a higher dT to the material, to come into contact more with the walls of the material.

I agree on this one with Mercury Lenth, another point to note is that usually the higher the difference between temperatures of 2 items the more heat is transfered, so having the two radiators in parallel means both get the hottest water possible, yielding the biggest heat transfer delta. Lastly about turbulance, yes fast flow mean more turbulance but with smooth surfaces, such as the pipes the difference is minimal. For big turbulance differences you would need some kind of ridges of uneven surfaces on the pipes, then I would reconsider this but on this one I would cast my vote for parallel setup.

you are right again about higher dT's being good. (of course the difference between parallel and series may be minimal but it is a small point to consider still.) However, I am sorry if i implied that higher flow increased turbulence, although true, this isnt really what i meant. What i meant was that higher flow and turbulence are both factors which contribute to more frequent and varied contact between the molecules of a liquid and a solid, and to better heat transfer by twofold - through higher number of molecules touching the walls, higher frequency with which the molecules touch the walls. also, there is considerable turbulence in pipes that bend like that of a radiator, but thats something i will overlook.

BTW, if we are voting i think i would vote for series so you don't have the splitters and extra interfaces. either way though, the difference will be negligble if both would be done properly.

hope that helps. :) as always, if im wrong somewhere, call me on it. :)

side-note: on skifletchs note on maximum temperature differences throughout a loop i think he mentioned he thought the differences in water temp was 2-5C. i have read that this is actually .2-.5C and i wonder if that isnt what he read also, it wouldnt surprise me. I know this is far, far closer to what could be observed... anyone have a linky to someone observing their inline water temperatures? the reason why this is FAR more reasonable could be easily explained rationally, but its always nice to see actual readings too.
 
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Hmm, I was talking about the difference between ONE rad and 2 rad in parallel, tx for all the info.

Having SlantFins in parallel would be easier and neater then in series anyway, so if I choose that solution, I'll go parallel.
I’m also thinking about a big bucket (radiator-less) solution or a plain shrouded XLR heater-core with two 120mm @ 4-5V…

What would be your recommendation? (note: I’m going WC because I seek silence ;))
 
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