Thermaltake Xaser III - 1394 Socket is WIRED WRONG

CGR said:

Yea it sucks, but lets be realistic. If you did that with every company who had an issue, then you wouldnt be able to buy anything. Its unrealistic.

Also shouldnt judge a company just because of one particular mistake.

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I don't think it's unrealistic at all. As consumers, we have the power to make companies like this either give better customer support or go out of business. Do you think all this bad press is worth not paying ~$500 to a customer that had damaged electronics from a faulty product?

I'm not judging a company for one mistake. I'm judging them by how they handle their mistake.

I am fairly brand loyal. If I have a problem with a product and they work to resolve the problem to my satisfaction, I will definitely buy from them again. I'm not a "difficult customer". I know there are some things that are out of the manufacturers' control but if they're willing to do what's right to make their customers happy, isn't that worth a few extra bucks?

I've had great ordering experiences with Googlegear and Newegg. They handle my orders well and answer any questions I have in a timely fashion. That's why I continue to use them. Are they the cheapest? Not on everything but I'm willing to spend a few extra bucks just to have the peace of mind that comes with buying from them.

If everyone just said "***** happens" and moves on every time they come across a factory defect, we would all have to deal with inferior products.

-Bobby

Well, you are judging them because of something that happend to someone else, not you. So dont you think its a bit judgemental because it has not happened to you?

I have had nothing but good business from Newegg. However two friends had multiple problems with HD's they purchased from Newegg and had issues with getting them replaced in a fair amount of time.

Should I not buy from Newegg because two people I know had problems? No...

I will continue to buy from Newegg because they have always had good customer service with me and have never had any problems.

I admit this is a different situation, however the "principal" is the same.

CGR said:

Well, you are judging them because of something that happend to someone else, not you. So dont you think its a bit judgemental because it has not happened to you?

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Not yet. I just ordered an Enermax case that uses the same OEM case as Tt. I will be testing the 1394 port and see if they have the same problem. If they do, I will be sending Enermax an e-mail about it and see how they handle it.

Should I not buy from Newegg because two people I know had problems? No...

I will continue to buy from Newegg because they have always had good customer service with me and have never had any problems.

I admit this is a different situation, however the "principal" is the same.

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Actually, the principle isn't the same. Newegg didn't manufacture the products being bought. They do have specific return policies on certain products.

Also, I don't know the problems that your friend had. If I knew the specifics, it might make a difference. If SonarTech and Spacedust didn't make a website with specific information and explained what they went through, I might have a different opinion. I have bought a few Tt products and haven't been too impressed. The Hardcano 9 isn't all that great. It has problems controlling the fans that it's supposed to but I haven't looked further into this yet. I was waiting on the new case to test it more.

-Bobby

Ok, then I stand corrected since you have not had great experience with Thermaltake to begin with. I only use their video card cooler and it seems to work well.

CGR said:

Well, you are judging them because of something that happend to someone else, not you. So dont you think its a bit judgemental because it has not happened to you?

I have had nothing but good business from Newegg. However two friends had multiple problems with HD's they purchased from Newegg and had issues with getting them replaced in a fair amount of time.

Should I not buy from Newegg because two people I know had problems? No...

I will continue to buy from Newegg because they have always had good customer service with me and have never had any problems.

I admit this is a different situation, however the "principal" is the same.

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Actually, the principle is not the same at all. Newegg, unlike Thermaltake, hasn't been shown in person that a problem exists on potentially an entire series of products they sell. Thermaltake HAS. In fact, the problem was demonstrated using a machine THEY provided, not one I brought with me. In fact, I have yet to see ANY Xaser III that is wired correctly. We're not talking about some small random sampling here, CGR, we're talking about a defect which has the potential to impact hundreds of people, maybe even thousands of people. Further, the defect IS of a nature that will likely damage or destroy equipment when installed per the manufacturer's instructions. If you think for one second that that's just "too bad for us" and that we shouldn't hold them accountable for it, you're absolutely wrong.

HP sold several printer models that had a problem feeding multiple sheets of paper. The worst damage it could do would be to damage JUST the printer. HP just recently settled the class-action suit brought against them for the problem, and they were made to fix the problem and compensate the people (like me) affected by it. Go visit http://laserjet.classaction.hp.young-america.com/ for more information about that, then try and tell me again why I should just "deal with this" and continue to buy Thermaltake's products.

This situation, however, is so much worse, because unlike the printer problem, there IS the potential for a substantial amount of damage to be done to other equipment, which could range in price from $30 to $3000 depending on the device attached.

I think you might have a different perspective in this issue if it impacted you and Thermaltake was blowing you off, even after you took a week off work to drive down there and show them the problem IN PERSON because they told you it was an installation error.

Sheesh...

SonarTech

I have spread the news to Pimprig at http://www.pimprig.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6927 .
"Thermaltake screws ya over once again... they weren't satisfied with just your CPU overheating, now they're blowing components with their firewire ports...

It's all a big conspiracy, I tell you!"
The cases shall be recalled.

star882 said:

I have spread the news to Pimprig at http://www.pimprig.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6927 .
"Thermaltake screws ya over once again... they weren't satisfied with just your CPU overheating, now they're blowing components with their firewire ports...

It's all a big conspiracy, I tell you!"
The cases shall be recalled.

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Yeah, my wife saw that - thanks for helping to spread the word. If the info just keeps one person from burning up their equipment, it was worth it. Hopefully more people will find out about this problem and spread the word, because it sure doesn't look like Thermaltake's going to tell you about it.

With each day that Thermaltake refuses to accept responsibility for their Uckfup, I am that much more interested in seeing this through to the end. I think they keep hoping I'll get bored or just go away and this whole thing will blow over... What do YOU think? ;-)

I think they should, at the least, fix the new cases coming out, and send some serious *info* to their OEM. It, would be a great help when bobby gets his case and checks to see if it works

Just got the Enermax case. Very impressive size and weight. At a quick glance, there's a few things I'm going to HAVE to mod but overall, it's a very well designed case (1394 port aside). Sadly, there's no manual for it. If you're mechanically inclined, this case is very intuitive. Moving it and playing with the stuff inside, I have yet to find a sharp corner. It's a VERY solid case.


SonarTech,

I'm looking at the connectors right now and it looks like this is wired incorrectly, just like yours. The VG and VP are in the same position as in your pics. The Circuit board has "REV-BC-31D" at the edge on the 1394 port end of the pcb. I don't have a Firewire hub so I can't do the test you outlined on your site but I'm looking at the pinouts on the motherboard and it looks like both VG and VP are +12v.

I took some pics but my 1.3 mp camera just can't handle the details. I should be getting my 5.0 mp camera in a couple of days and I can send you the pics of the connectors.

-Bobby

It really wouldn't even be that bad if they just rewired the case for all new cases. Just fixed the problem. it's really not that hard to change it. Then they could just put out at their site that it's rewird incorrectly and how to rewire it. either one of those things aren't hard to do and would show support for their customers. Never the less i think they need to do more about it. I'm gonna go to some sites that reviewed the case and send them this info.

Bobby said:

SonarTech,

I'm looking at the connectors right now and it looks like this is wired incorrectly, just like yours. The VG and VP are in the same position as in your pics. The Circuit board has "REV-BC-31D" at the edge on the 1394 port end of the pcb. I don't have a Firewire hub so I can't do the test you outlined on your site but I'm looking at the pinouts on the motherboard and it looks like both VG and VP are +12v.

I took some pics but my 1.3 mp camera just can't handle the details. I should be getting my 5.0 mp camera in a couple of days and I can send you the pics of the connectors.

-Bobby

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Hmmm... Do you have another system that has Firewire? If so, you can certainly use that as your "hub". Since the end that connects to the mainboard inside your new case won't be connected, there's no chance that you'll damage anything. Essentially, all you would be doing is using that working firewire port as the "power supply" to test the wiring inside the Enermax. Simply connect a cable from the working system to the Enermax 1394 port and then measure the voltage by placing the red/positive lead of the multimeter on the VP pin, and the black/negative lead on the VG pin. If the case is wired CORRECTLY, it will indicate a POSITIVE voltage, anywhere from 8 to 40 volts. If, however, it indicates a negative voltage, like -12.00 or something along those lines, then this case has the same problem the Thermaltake Xaser III has, and we'll know that it's the OEM that's doing this - even though the people selling it are still responsible.

Bobby, I'll take some additional pictures for you of my cable, then you can look at my pictures and compare them to your cable and PCB. If they look identical, chances are it's miswired, too.

For now, however, can you tell me what the wires colors are and what the labels are on the pins that connect to the motherboard? i.e., VP=WHITE, etc...?

Thanks!

SonarTech,

I just sent you a pm with a link to the pics I took. They're not great but you should be able to make out the cable colors at least (I can't believe I paid $500 for a 1.3 megapixel 6 yrs ago)

-Bobby

its already been sents to tomshardware by the way

Bobby said:

SonarTech,

I just sent you a pm with a link to the pics I took. They're not great but you should be able to make out the cable colors at least (I can't believe I paid $500 for a 1.3 megapixel 6 yrs ago)

-Bobby

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I got your message, bobby. From what I can tell, the I/O board with the 1394 socket is identical to the Xaser part. I can't, however, clearly see the colors on the 1394 cable, because it is on its side.

How does this compare with your cable, Bobby?

I/O board connector (not the motherboard end)
==================================
Looking at the header holes, with the key pin to the right, use this chart to number the pins:

16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9
__________________
| o o o o o o |x| o |
| o o o o o o |x| o |
-------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8


Thermaltake Xaser III
-------------------------------------------------------------
PIN SIGNAL & WIRE COLOR
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 USB1+ (green)
2 USB1- (white)
3 VCC1 (red)
4 TPA+ (orange)
5 TPB+ (pink)
6 VP (white)
7 N/C (key pin)
8 GND1 & GND2 (2 black wires)
9 GND (on the 1394 connector) (1 black wire)
10 N/C
11 VG (black)
12 TPB- (green)
13 TPA- (blue)
14 VCC2 (red)
15 USB2- (white)
16 USB2+ (green)
-------------------------------------------------------------

How does yours compare?

SonarTech,

Looks identical as yours. What got me curious was that my motherboard pinouts show +12 on both VG and VP pins.

-Bobby

Bobby said:

SonarTech,

Looks identical as yours. What got me curious was that my motherboard pinouts show +12 on both VG and VP pins.

-Bobby

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That picture you sent me from your manual doesn't have VG or VP labeled on the pins, so I don't understand what you mean. In your case, IF YOUR CABLE WAS WIRED CORRECTLY, this is how you'd hook it up:

Your motherboard________________1394 cable pins
======================================
TPA0+_________________________TPA+
TPB0+_________________________TPB+
+12V__________________________VP
GND (any one of them)____________VG
TPA0-__________________________TPA-
TPB0-__________________________TPB-
======================================

Since, however, it looks like your VG and VP wires are swapped, you'd want to swap those in the above table.

Have you made any attempt at this point to contact Enermax's Tech support and see what they try to B.S. you with?

From the wiring on the plug, the VG and VP are both aligned to the +12v pins from the motherboard. The ground wire should be one pin over.

-Bobby

Bobby said:

From the wiring on the plug, the VG and VP are both aligned to the +12v pins from the motherboard. The ground wire should be one pin over.

-Bobby

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Whoa, wait a minute - Are you saying all you motherboard pins are part of a single connector?!??

Does your cable look like this on the side that connects to the mainboard?

http://www.meltybrain.org/1394/images/mainboardpins.jpg

I wasn't planing on installing it to my new mobo after I heard about someone rosting his mobo by connecting (the false) wires (I'm glad I didn't cause I donnu much about electrics)
I'm using the firewire port of my AUDIGY and it works fine for me.
To have the connector on the top of the case would be a bonus but I don't neccesarly need that - and I don't need to damage my new P4P800 for sure!!!!!!

Well, eveyrbody
else gets lawsuits, I think we should think about that since this seems like a serious problem. In theory they would have to buy you new equipment IMHO.
They are not even sending out 'warning letters' I guess !?!
Or recalls just like in the car industry.

shame.

I spread the word to another German forum they need to know too!!!


On the other hand there's service was satisfiying as they prompt replaced a fan that was screwed up with a new one - they wanted the old one back though.

--NiTCOM

These are the connectors to the motherboard:



-Bobby