dont waste cash on routers

Beast Of Blight · Aug 14, 2003

SinsFeelNatural said:
Even your avatar is looks paranoid! lol

a quote from a girl I used to work with.

lol. Just teasing you, it always good to be carefull

Paranoia is running checks every two hours to see if your anti-virus, software and routerbased firewalls are all up to date

Labotomy Jack · Aug 14, 2003

Beast Of Blight said:
Only the truely 1337, like me, run both a hardware & a software firewall.

I guess that makes me truly elite

XWRed1 said:
Technically they're all software firewalls, just the appliances are embedded machines. Some of them even run Linux.

Yes!! I have had people try to tell me "hardware" firewalls were unhackable -- nothing is unhackable. Now if you want to talk probabilties...

And yes I am paranoid, however I have also never gotten a virus/worm/hacked either.

Yet.

¬_¬

XWRed1 · Aug 14, 2003

Yes!! I have had people try to tell me "hardware" firewalls were unhackable -- nothing is unhackable. Now if you want to talk probabilties...

I'd consider the routing appliances unhackable. On most enough I don't think there is enough running for someone to use, let alone that they might be using obscure enough software that noone knows or bothers to find exploits for it.

I mean, say there is a bug in the Linksys router that leads to an exploit. Probably would just end up crashing or breaking the router. Not like they could exploit known weak services or social engineer someone to eventually get a shell on that Linksys appliance and use that as a springboard to other systems.

I suppose maybe there could be a known buffer overflow and someone could make or use a tool to exploit that and inject their own runnable code, and then know enough about the host hardware and software that they can reconfigure your dmz or port forwarding so they can get at the real machines. That still seems pretty unlikely.

nahmus · Aug 15, 2003

XWRed1 said:
I mean, say there is a bug in the Linksys router that leads to an exploit. Probably would just end up crashing or breaking the router. Not like they could exploit known weak services or social engineer someone to eventually get a shell on that Linksys appliance and use that as a springboard to other systems.

.

Something like that could also be used as an exploit. Being able to crash a device remotely could be used in a combined attack. Although I doubt many people use linksys on the edge of a corporate network. If they do then they should know better!~

XWRed1 · Aug 15, 2003

You crash the device and then what? All the computers behind it lose net access. That won't get you much closer to violating any of those computers.

nahmus · Aug 15, 2003

no Its not an exploit to gain access but depending on your motives that might just be what you are planning. Another reason to do something line that is that most companys backup plans are much less secure.

Again any decent sized company should not be using consumer grade linksys for anything mission critical. But I agree that something like that could (most likley) not be used to gain access to computers behind it.

Labotomy Jack · Aug 15, 2003

I'd have to agree that I would still consider that a hack or at least something very similar. I mean for me personally a large part of the time spent on my computer is spent online in some form or another and to be denied acces to the internet would be a great inconvenience to me.

XWRed1 · Aug 15, 2003

Well, actually, there is one way to take down a Linksys router appliance that I know of. If it has something like 200 outbound connections, it will crash and need to be powercycled. I don't know if its 200 exactly, I've seen it crash a bunch when lots of people are behind it and using it, and later someone told me he read it was a bug and the number was somewhere in the neighborhood of 200.

Lesson: use a real computer.

Jules · Aug 15, 2003

I use a dlink router and zonealarm. I'd use smoothwall, but I don't have much room for a second computer. I love zonealarm. If any program tries to access the internet, zonealarm lets me know, that's why I leave it on, and also so I know if anyone get's through my router, which has never happened.

bubba gump · Aug 15, 2003

Zone alarm won't tell you the status of your router, or if anyone gets through it. It only monitor's your computer, not your router, not your daddy's compaq or your neighbor's computer, but only your computer. Maybe you just typed it wrong? Or you misconcieved the capability of little ol' zonealarm

*btw* I'll never stop using my netgear unless its for a smoothwall box

Fold and Frag on
Brian

CyberFed · Aug 17, 2003

hate to burst your bubble, but i have a few hacker buddies that know of many extreamly serious flaws in zone alarm that just leave your computer wide open, zone alarm is junk if you dont wanna believe me keep running your machine without a router and you'll learn the hardway eventually.

Annoyingrob · Aug 18, 2003

XWRed1 said:
Well, actually, there is one way to take down a Linksys router appliance that I know of. If it has something like 200 outbound connections, it will crash and need to be powercycled. I don't know if its 200 exactly, I've seen it crash a bunch when lots of people are behind it and using it, and later someone told me he read it was a bug and the number was somewhere in the neighborhood of 200.

Lesson: use a real computer.

so THAT explains why my Linksys sometimes locks up.

XWRed1 · Aug 19, 2003

See if you can update the firmware on it. I've heard that one of their firmware updates fixes that.

Annoyingrob · Aug 19, 2003

Probably. Ive noticed Linksys firmware updates fix EVERYTHING

I'm a little behind with my firmware (1.44.2). I'l do it when I come back from vacation.

aftermath · Aug 20, 2003

i use zone alarm. iv got through it and iv been hacked through it.
im just starting to play with smothwall. when i get that sorted ill use both.
(the reson that ive haked my self is to test the security of my own pc im of the oppinion that if some one else could do it i should learn too. thet way hopefully i can make my self more secure by finding the flaws.)

UnseenMenace · Aug 20, 2003

I am currently doing a system security course and have been shown the problems of running software firewalls, simply do not think that they are the same thing as a dedicated firewall, you are fooling yourself..

Also I fail to see why everyone is so concerned about stealth ports, Windows XP displays stealth ports with its firewall, does anyone think this is a safe OS unless it patched beyond belief ?

XWRed1 · Aug 20, 2003

Software firewall isn't the same as a dedicated box acting as a firewall... but configured properly its effectively the same.

viking84 · Aug 20, 2003

a link for the smoothwall program? I'd like to explore an option to zonealarm

thanks

XWRed1 · Aug 21, 2003

http://smoothwall.sourceforge.net/

Nasdaq · Aug 23, 2003

CrazyP said:
hum, people dont get a router just for the firewall

I have a friend that bought a Netgear router just for that reason, he does not network at all.

dont waste cash on routers

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