Chipped AMD's and a possible way to prevent this tragedy

seabhac · Apr 16, 2001

A few months back I saw a post where someone had taken epoxy and built up solid pads to replace the rubber ones AMD supplies on the chip. Being of sound mind, I don't like to alter anything I might have to send back for RMA, but I did think the principle was good. Supposing you had a micrometer(I don't) and were able to measure the height of the core on your cpu. Rather than remove the pads there should be a way to take a teflon washer and modify it to drop over the existing rubber pads. If the height was right, it would eliminate stress around the fragile corners of the core which is where this most commonly happens from what I've read. I don't have a supply of chips around to take measurements on but I'm betting someone here does have access to that kind of thing. If you do, and your willing I know I would be interested in what kind of dimensions you might find. I suspect the manufacturing process will be pretty close on these. The amount of variation quite small.

In a month or so I am planning on using the new Millenium copper HSF and knowing I could prevent a possible chip on my 1.2 266 bird would be nice. The Millenium has a 20 lb clip on it and I don't know if that is high by industry standards but is sounds high. I am not looking for a new keychain. If your curious and have access to chip stock, and a micrometer I'm sure there are those who would appreciate your input. I know I would. Hell I'd even pay a reasonable price if there was someone offering a product like this. I just don't have the facilities or the time myself.

Hoot · Apr 16, 2001

First off, the question should be, why don't HSF manufacturers spend an extra dime per unit to make a clip that goes on and off of a socket, while the mobo is in the case, without chipping the core.
The last I read about the Millenium was that he was going to a mount that utilizes the four holes in the mobo around the socket. My MC-462A does and now, when I put on or remove the HSF, I don't get an acid stomach and anxiety attack. That method is ultra reliable and safe. This is especially helpful in a mid-tower, where the socket is right next to the PSU on one side.

Hoot

Hoot · Apr 16, 2001

Sorry, I forgot to say, you would not want to use Teflon because it is soft and deforms easily. HDPE, Delrin, Nylon, etc would be good choices though.

Hoot

seabhac · Apr 16, 2001

Hoot- Good points. For that matter why doesn't AMD use nylon pads instead of rubber since we all know that leads to problems. Either way though a nylon washer (just a donut around the existing rubber pad could go a long way towards eliminating that dreaded chipped core.

Hoot · Apr 16, 2001

One reluctance would be the burden of liability and who it falls upon. More important would be the checks needed to maintain close manufacturing tolerances. It only takes a few thousandths slop to make the core vulnerable.
I'm working on an article that involves the ThermoEngine and requires it to be taken off and put back on frequently and I'll tell you, it had me a nervous wreck until I set aside the clip and fashioned a work-around using four springs which hook on the four corners of the top side of the fan and down to eyelets I installed in the four holes around the socket. Looks wierd, but very easy on and off.

Hoot

seabhac · Apr 16, 2001

Hoot (Apr 16, 2001 10:10 a.m.):
One reluctance would be the burden of liability and who it falls upon. More important would be the checks needed to maintain close manufacturing tolerances. It only takes a few thousandths slop to make the core vulnerable.
I'm working on an article that involves the ThermoEngine and requires it to be taken off and put back on frequently and I'll tell you, it had me a nervous wreck until I set aside the clip and fashioned a work-around using four springs which hook on the four corners of the top side of the fan and down to eyelets I installed in the four holes around the socket. Looks wierd, but very easy on and off.

Hoot

Hoot that makes sense, but is a relatively easy fix. nylon washers can be shaved or sanded with ease to meet the required height.

In the post I saw recently an ink pad was used to verify contact of all four epoxy pads and the surface area of the cpu core. I like that idea, but will take it one step farther. Ink can build up from the pad and give a misleading reading this way. If rolled on to the surface of a mirror prior to inking of the pads, and core it should present a smooth thin layer for transfer. In this way you would achieve a more accurate reading of the pad/core heights. Any thoughts on this?

Hoot · Apr 16, 2001

I believe I read an article where the person took some putty epoxy, rolled up 4 small balls and put them on the four corners of the CPU. He then took some WD-40 and rubbed it onto the top of a sheet of clean glass. He then turned the CPU upside down and pressed it onto the glass. It sunk until the core bottomed out on the glass and the 4 putty epoxy balls had flattened to the same height. I don't recall whether he let it cure there on the glass or flipped it back over and let it cure from there. Apparently, the WD-40 got into the poers of the glass just enough to prevent the putty epoxy from sticking to it. A piece of Saran Wrap would probably accomplish the same thing if you cut a square in the center of it to allow the core to rest upon the glass.

Hoot

Crispy · Apr 16, 2001

Why Don't you spend an Extra $7 and get a CopperShim? Just do alittle Lapping if it's a Tad too high...mine was right on the Mark when I got it. That is why they Made them you know. You're gonna have to spend a few bucks on whatever you use. Just my opinion.

seabhac · Apr 16, 2001

Crispy (Apr 16, 2001 01:11 p.m.):
Why Don't you spend an Extra $7 and get a CopperShim? Just do alittle Lapping if it's a Tad too high...mine was right on the Mark when I got it. That is why they Made them you know. You're gonna have to spend a few bucks on whatever you use. Just my opinion.

Cuz copper shims have been known to cause all kinds of problems.. I'd way sooner go with something that isn't conductive.

The masterless newbie · Apr 18, 2001

seabhac (Apr 16, 2001 01:48 p.m.):

Crispy (Apr 16, 2001 01:11 p.m.):
Why Don't you spend an Extra $7 and get a CopperShim? Just do alittle Lapping if it's a Tad too high...mine was right on the Mark when I got it. That is why they Made them you know. You're gonna have to spend a few bucks on whatever you use. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

Cuz copper shims have been known to cause all kinds of problems.. I'd way sooner go with something that isn't conductive.

Good new for you my friend!! Coolerguys came out w/ this new shim that is made of non conductive material. I'm really considering buying one of these myself! Here's the url:
Cool Shims
Happy O/Cing!!!!

Hoot · Apr 18, 2001

It would be intersting to see how the temp behaves with and without one of them. Thanks for the tip Masterless...

Hoot

asmodean · Apr 18, 2001

Hoot (Apr 18, 2001 06:25 a.m.):
It would be intersting to see how the temp behaves with and without one of them. Thanks for the tip Masterless...

Hoot

I saw test about that somewhere. Sadly, my memory fails.

Anyhow, there really wasn't any temp difference between a copper shimm and a nonconductive shimm. Temps were about 1F higher than without a shimm, which is neglible. Fahrenheit is an outdated measure. We're not living in the dark ages anymore. Metric system is here to stay.

TechnoFile · Apr 18, 2001

Well, I have no micromoter, but I've got some dial calipers that are really accurate. To measure the height of the core, I took the chip and an old heatsink that I have lapped down and held the two together. The measurement looks to be .036". Needless to say, this is pretty damn small. One possible way to get some accurate 'feet' on the chip would be to make them a little taller than the die and lap the entire thing down - slowly and carefully. I've seen reports of people lapping their processors before, and though it doesn't seem to be done very much anymore, it should still be safe. You don't necessarily have to even lap the core itself, just lap the 'feet' down until you are starting to contact the core.

Pat · Apr 18, 2001

Try a copper shim. Spray the bottom side with clear coat to ensure it is non-conductive. I really don't see a major differents in Temp drop with it or not. The shim could make the sink more stable.

Pat

seabhac · Apr 19, 2001

The masterless newbie (Apr 18, 2001 04:25 a.m.):

seabhac (Apr 16, 2001 01:48 p.m.):

Crispy (Apr 16, 2001 01:11 p.m.):
Why Don't you spend an Extra $7 and get a CopperShim? Just do alittle Lapping if it's a Tad too high...mine was right on the Mark when I got it. That is why they Made them you know. You're gonna have to spend a few bucks on whatever you use. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

Cuz copper shims have been known to cause all kinds of problems.. I'd way sooner go with something that isn't conductive.

Click to expand...

Right on.. I checked this out and liked the review. It did not seem to affect temps one way or the other which is alright. I am simply looking to save my chip and I believe this will work. Thanks for the good word.

Good new for you my friend!! Coolerguys came out w/ this new shim that is made of non conductive material. I'm really considering buying one of these myself! Here's the url:
Cool Shims
Happy O/Cing!!!!

Colin · Apr 19, 2001

Why not just put the motherboard on a horizontal surface when installing and removing a HS? The only time I have damaged a CPU (not terminal) was while trying to install a HS while the motherboard was verticle in a case. I use the deadly FOP32 on my bench and I can't tell you how many times I have installed an removed it without damaging a chip. Just use common sense and be careful!

seabhac · Apr 19, 2001

Colin (Apr 18, 2001 11:43 p.m.):
Why not just put the motherboard on a horizontal surface when installing and removing a HS? The only time I have damaged a CPU (not terminal) was while trying to install a HS while the motherboard was verticle in a case. I use the deadly FOP32 on my bench and I can't tell you how many times I have installed an removed it without damaging a chip. Just use common sense and be careful!

Colin you have avalid point, but I can't help thinking that $8.95 is a very cheap investment to prevent possible damage.The heatsink I am planning on using weighs in at an estimated 1.5 lbs. Using a shim is just good sense. The manufacturer was planning on using a four screw through hole method of mounting and has now decided to go to a 20 pound clip. I just don't want to take any chances. I'd kick myself in the *** if I damaged my new t-bird and could have avoided it.

Da Whip · Apr 19, 2001

Seabhac, what kind of HSF are you considering? That sounds awfully heavy, like a radiator off a 70 Nova.

seabhac · Apr 19, 2001

Da Whip (Apr 19, 2001 10:04 a.m.):
Seabhac, what kind of HSF are you considering? That sounds awfully heavy, like a radiator off a 70 Nova.

its that one that Joe reviewed a couple months back. Solid copper with a submerged fan profile. It's a beast but it's super low profile and has excellent cooling ability. Maybe better than the swiftech if numbers I saw are right. They are supposed to start shipping next week.

asmodean · Apr 20, 2001

Is it the Millennium Copper? There was that name contest, if I remember right, it's now called Millennium Glacier or some such.

If they are starting to ship next week, where could I get one? URL would be nice, if the store ships to Finland.

Chipped AMD's and a possible way to prevent this tragedy

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