What do you think of this card?

Why is it that no one is allowed to bash ati? WTF do u care anyways u dont work for them, they dont pay you stop pimping.

nVidia has fallen behind and has had some stupid idotic mishaps over the past few years, but I cannot recommend ATI to people.

ATI snubbs the older generation.

Look at all the people with 9700's using the r300 core. They are all screwed r300 core was prototype DX9.

nVidia doesen't do this. With ATI you feel like **** when you invest in their latest and greatest and then get screwed. With nVidia you don't.

I can guarantee you people who are still using ti4200's are very happy, in fact, the ti4200 is selling very well.

The reasons for this are very simple. Intel has the same ethic as nVidia.

Release features THAT PEOPLE DO NOT NEED now, so the customer does not feel betrayed by the company. With ATI it seems like all their new products are FIXES for older products, thus making the customer feel like: "I can't believe they made me spend that ****ing much to be their guinea pig".

I have a Radeon 7200 which I paid quite a bit for, and I feel like a guinea pig betrayed by ATI. There is a notorious hardware bug with the 7200 that causes games to lag like chunks when there is fog. Not to mention the lack of performance on XP with this card as opposed to 9x.

Tell me I wasn't ATI's guinea pig, tell me.

ATI is still growing, it was pretty recently that they couldn't write a driver for games to save their lives. It seems they've got things together now but they're still relatively new to 3D performance. nVidia, I think, got a bit full of itself after it beat it's biggest competitor (3dFX) and bought them out. Now they're playing catch up to get back in the high-end vid card game.

IMO nVidia has the mid and entry level cards in the bag, they're just lagging a bit behind ATI in the cutting edge. Likewise, ATI has trouble with it's entry level cards although they're mid and high level cards are doing great things.

nVidia has never screwed anyone over with they're latest offerings? I think that all companies have experienced flops, ATI had more than it's share but nVidia has had a couple bad cards too.

how are people with 9700 pros screwed?

the 9700 pros are fully dx9 compliant

yeah, realease features such as crappy dx9 performance? or release those beloved dust buster heatsinks? or how about the cheating drivers? yup those are all features i look for in a card. dude, you should stop being such a fan boy, just because you went out and bought a crappy 7200, maybe you should do a little research before you buy. i wouldnt have ever bought an ati product before 8500, but since then they have gotten there crap together. just like nvidia, from gf1-4, great products. but their fx line sucks monkey balls through a straw. i wouldnt touch them with a 10 foot pole. you wanna talk about being betrayed by a company? what about all those people that laid out 500+ for the 5900U, only to see it beaten by a 150 card from ati in the latest and greatest game, HL2. or beaten BADLY in basicaly any game that uses dx9, or makes heavy use of shaders. hell they even got beat in TR:AOD and that was made with their own CG codepath. that just goes to show you how horrible the design of the fx is, it cant compete, there is no magical driver or bios going to fix this, its a hardware design flaw(4 shaders compared to atis 8). so stop with all the fanboyism, sure you bought a bad card, and i dont blame you for being ****ed, i would be too. but ati has great cards now, nvidias used to have great cards, but now they suck.

Why do people use the term "Wasting cash"

They use the term "Wasting cash" because they don't really have the comprehension to know its' value. From all the BS I've read from such people in this thread it looks like most of the peeps in it are still teenagers or at best in their 20s. I am NOT going to respond to all the posts that is bashing what I wrote or the fx v cards, or nvidia. But I will use part of what snyper1982 said to make my point that any such rebuttals on my part, or from anyone else who doesn't buy the Ati line, hook line and sinker. 4 shaders or 8 is not the problem with the fx v cards, it is the code that the cards were designed with. nvidia mistakeningly designed their fx cards to run DX9 at 32 bit precision, which is what normally would have been the next step. However MS decided to implement 24 or 26 (I forget which) for the actual implementation of DX9 and Ati picked up on that and designed their v cards to originally run with that precision. The fx cards are actually wasting power and time trying to process DX9 precision where none exists, and no software coding will completely fix this.

One more time about HF2. The durn game hasn't been released yet, so no one really knows how the released version will actually run. Valve had help from MS itself in specifically coding the game to run at MS DX9's compliance levels. After nvidias snaffu Valve is having to recode HL2 in order to help nvidia's 32 bit precision mistake. While recoding HL2 won't solve all of the 32 precision problems with the fx card, it will help a lot, and other game makers will know to do the same with future DX9 games. Any pics 1 is using now to determine pic IQ quality with Ati and nvidia v cards will not be valid when the game is finalized with the recoding. Nor can 1 now actually see the real benefits of DX9 in still pics. Some yes, but its' not the same as running the game, especially when the recoding will be taken into consideration.

When 1 compares the DX8x speeds of Ati and nvidia you will see much closer benchmark scores. That in itself shows nvidia fx cards are no slouches but rather a mistake was made in their design and implementation of DX9.

Still Ati has had outstanding hardware design for a couple of years now, and they have now proven they can at least get their drivers half way decent. At least enough so that when nvidia makes a mistake Ati can take advantage of it. The whole thing is great for all of us if you think about it. No one is wasting any cash buying a nvidia fx card, but one needs to wait for the right price that would suit them.

Mike

Ok, im going to try not to be biased. I have only owned 2 video cards. Those were the geforce 2 MX400 64MB and the Radeon 9000 Pro 128MB, Both were excellent cards. I love both companies. Granted, up untill recently my ati card had a few glitches in ut2k3 untill like cat 3.5. But now, both cards are running well. Gotta give credit to nvidia, my gf2 is still kicking and running flawlessly. Here is my opinion. From what i have seen, the Geforce FX series is quite good. I dotn have a problem with noise, and the 5800 ultra performs like a champ. The Geforce FX 5600 Ultra Rev.2 runs much faster then the rev 1. The geforceFX 5200 Ultra provides radeon 8500/GF3 level performance with DX9. Dont bash nvidia, they are a great company with real quality products. But dont bash ATI, they have had problems in the past, but form what i have seen, my 9000 pro no longer has driver glitches. And for me, i believe the det 50 drivers are not cheat drivers, but will fix a glitch that was causing lackluster dx9 performance in gffx cards. The geforce FX 5900 Ultra is quite a fast card, and is on par with a radeon 9800 pro in all games. Half life 2 is the only exception, now isnt that odd? Halo is DX9. Both run it well. ok, enough of my jabbering on and on. I do belive that it is a good deal for that FX 5900. Go for it. But, nvidia has had bad half life 2 performance. It may or may not be a big problem. Im simply warning you, it is possible(although i think it will be fixxed) that the performance you see now is what you get, but you never know, nvidia has been known for releasing performance enhancing drivers.
So go for it.

Don't you just love it when threads get hijacked I don't post alot but have been around here for awhile and the same damn thing happens every time.Someone post a simple question about a card and all the fanboys (both sides) come in to debate ati v nv.Seems pretty much the same people do it and Evnas (sorry) is clearly the winner.I have never owned an ati card but am impressed with what I see at lan parties and although I have only used nv (and 1 voodoo) I do not consider myself as an nv fanboy.When I hear someone say a 5900 or a 9700 pro is a pos it tells me they don't know their axx from a hole in the ground.They are both great cards.I am glad I have a few other good forums to post at because alot of you have turned a great information site as this one into something it was not intended to be.I have learned a lot here and am thankful to many people here but I seldom suggest this site to people anymore do to what has happened to this thread.Sorry for the long winded rant but if I had wanted to debate ati/nv I would not have asked for opinions on THIS CARD

Alright, here is my opinion as I stated it in the first reply.

This is not a 5900 Ultra. A 5900 will do you very well with DX8.1 level and below games. However, up until the Detonator 50 series, the 5900 performs similarly to a 9600 Pro in DX9 games such as Half Life 2 and Tomb Raider and thus would be a very bad bang for buck.

The Det 50 drivers seem to have elevated DX9 performance to at least 9700 level. However, due to Nvidia's recent history I would wait and make sure that these gains are made by legitimate driver optimizations and not reductions of image quality before buying the card. I would also make sure it is all good in Doom III and Half Life 2 before buying the card.

That is my 2 cents.

Now that is a legit reply funnyperson1

Actually I'm waiting for a price reduction on the 5900 or 5900 U. Even if it is when the 5700 and 5950 arrives.

And I am waiting to see how the 5700 will do.
However if I can get a 5900 for about 180 bux or a 5900 U for about 250 bux, then I mite go ahead and get one of them b4 the 5700 comes out. I am specifically waiting to see how the 5700 (nv 36) deals with the DX9 precision problem compared to the 5900 and 5900 U.

I have read rumors from reviewers that the 5700 will be slightly faster than the 5900 and the 5950 U will be about 15% faster than than the 5900 U. But if the price is right...........? Really, the Ati cards has always had a slight pic IQ edge over the nvidia cards, as did 3Dfx have a pic IQ edge over both Ati and nvidia(not counting the glide wrapper). Still I don't consider the difference enough to not buy the nvidia v cards.

One driver release alone can be enough to change the rank or ratings of a v card from excellent to poor, it just depends on how much pic IQ the programmers wants to code in the drivers. And whatever it is, it is only to make some sort of balance between speed and pic IQ. So just because one set of drivers, from any company, may be faster or slower than another set from the same company, for the same card, does NOT mean the v card is bad, or that the drivers are bad. It simply means different drivers are available for people to try and use at their own discretion and preferences. This is a reason why we see both Ati and nvidia accused of cheating on drivers, maybe more so than they deserve.

Whatever v card I get I intend on keeping it untill somewhere in or around 2005. I am wanting to set out all this forth coming hardware changes that the computer companies will be going through the next year and a half or so.

Cheers,
Mike

Mike360000 said:

You know Evnas, you pilfer the nvidia boards like a troll!
That's ALL I have ever see you do, troll the nvidia theads and even forums knocking the nvidia v cards. Do you see me in the Ati forums? NO.........

You know at some point, one would say enough of buying into the same ole story. I called it quits after 4 Ati v cards. And everyone had poor drivers, the first card, a Rage Fury, Ati left us owners hanging. Chief wanted to know specifically about nvidia v cards, he made a nvidia specific thread, NOT in the Ati forums. Yet all I see is trolls from Ati making cheap putdowns. Leave well enough alone will'ya, and take Peaknuckle2k4 with you..... I doubt it though. Maybe the mods can clean up the trolling if complaints are made to them?

I don't care for nvidia as a company and I could care less what happens to them. And the same applies for Ati. But at least I ain't in the Ati forums stirring up crap!

Mike

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Calm down there buddy. First off, this isnt the nVidia section! lol. This is the general section, i saw the name of the thread (which doesnt name the card at all btw, so i came in to see what it was about) and after reading your post, i thought i would just poke a little fun. I see you spouting anti-ati in a lot of place, so who are you to talk?

Second, im not as bias as i may sound. I put my money where it is best spent (since i dont have a lot to throw at stuff in the first place). Before i ever owned an ATi i had a GF3 Ti500, a GF2 GTS, and a Voodoo 3 3000. Yea, it says im an ATi fanboy in my sig...but if you notice, it also says im an Intel fanboy, and i own an AMD system...shows ya how much of a fanboy i am huh? (omg, imagine that...sacrasm)

Awl Evnas, I don't mind reading some of your rantings, sometimes, but it seems that is all you ever do. You said it yourself, FWIW, that you wanted to poke a little fun. Well some people don't take things so lightly. I only happened to be here for a specific purpose, which originally was NOT to be having fun here, but to learn something. I think Chief was wanting the same. And FWIW many other peeps do in fact see you as a Ati fanboy, badly! Not that I hold anything against you, as you seem ok if one is wanting to poke funs and jabs with each other. I just didn't see anything of benefit to Chief 1st post, or to what I was looking for. Matter of fact, and no offense, it seemed insulting wanting specific info and then reading somebody post poking fun at their seriousness.

I think one's posts, especially over time determines their bias, not what they may claim. I may claim not to be biased in some things, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. Matter of fact I am biased enuff now not buy a Ati for the near future.

Cheers,
Mike

Mike360000 said:

And FWIW many other peeps do in fact see you as a Ati fanboy, badly!

Click to expand...

This part right here stuck out a bit to me. I dont see why people would think im a fanboy, other then the fact that i do recommend, and know more about, current ATi cards. Ive never said nVidia will die, or nVidia will never be able to come back, or anything along those lines. Nor have i said ATi will always be king, or anything along those lines either. Ive also never said "Omg! Ditch that GFFX card and get an ATi!" Infact, most of the time when someone is asking for card recommendations, i stay out of it unless asking brand, or general card info. Also, and heres the kicker...most of what i say is...*drumroll*...true

mmmmm.....the 5900u
what do I think about it.
it all starts with nVidia.......


1) discrediting 3dMark03 because NV Hardware ran poorly
2) Cheating in 3dMark03 to inflate benchmark scores by insering clipping planes, doing partial z-clears, and substituting shaders
3) cheating in UT2003, most used benchmark, to inflate scores
4 discrediting Websites that reported the cheats
5) discrediting FRAPS as unreliable as a benchmarking tool after Reviewers started using it to bench games not normally used as benchmarks and therefore not optimized for by Nvidia
6) Nvidia encodes driver to defeat anti-cheat scripts that show driver cheats in popular benchmarks.
7) Coerce Eidos into dropping v.49 patch to Tomb Raider because imbedded benchmark module would have shown all users just how poorly NV hardware runs the game even though the patch fixed many game issues as well for Customers. Nvidia says F*** the customer. ... "The Way YOUR meant to be Played"
8) ask websites to test NV hardware with beta drivers that have broken functions and effects and poor image quality, but do run certain widely benchmarked Games faster?

now this is the first ATI card I ever had.....
why?
simple. the nVidia FX cards are all hardware limited with DX9...
there is no driver update that will ever fix this.
I will repeat, there will be no driver fix ever.
there can not ever be.
anyone who says anything different doesn't know what they are talking about or are payed off by nVidia to say otherwise.
sorry, go to beyond3d and do some research.

smoke and mirrors....that is all the FX's are right now, and always be.
sorry if the truth hurts.
anyone who has sat down with both cards running at the same time will tell you the same.

I still like nVidia, but the nv40 seems to be 32bit FP as well(instead of 24bit)....this could be a big problem for the new cards.
this is the biggest reason for the poor PS2.0, VS2.0 results.
man I hope the the last thing that nVidia does is go with 32bit FPs with the NV40.

btw, do you want to know who the fanboys are here?
it's the people who have not said a bad word about the 5900u.

you asked us what we thik about it.....
now I told you.

I hope I've helped

mica

Evnas said:

This part right here stuck out a bit to me. I dont see why people would think im a fanboy, other then the fact that i do recommend, and know more about, current ATi cards. Ive never said nVidia will die, or nVidia will never be able to come back, or anything along those lines. Nor have i said ATi will always be king, or anything along those lines either. Ive also never said "Omg! Ditch that GFFX card and get an ATi!" Infact, most of the time when someone is asking for card recommendations, i stay out of it unless asking brand, or general card info. Also, and heres the kicker...most of what i say is...*drumroll*...true

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I"m with you man. I don't get into all the fanboy chatter, and am not loyal to any video car company. I buy what is best for the money and right now ATI is the best buy. If you can't see that people didn't do their homework.

can't you guys go one thread without this same old TIRED arguement. he asked about a single card and you guys somehow turned this into yet another ati vs nvidia bs thread. jesus get over it already. he even made another post stating what i just said and you guys still kept it up.



now about the card from the original thread.

is it a nice card? Yes it is


will it perform well enough to get you buy for a few months/year? Yes it will

are there better card on the market? of course

will it play HL2? yes it sure will even my ti4200 will play HL2

will it play doom2? who knows carmack doesn't even know, if the game manages to come out in the next ten years then we may finally find out

would i buy it? hmm I've never payed that much for a video card, mostly because i'm poor. but if i had the chance i would love to try one out.

anything else?

Chief said:

Well thanks for the input you ati fans but I was kinda asking what people thought of this card not how it compares to an ati.

Click to expand...

notice the NOT in " not how it compares to ati"?

the fx5900s will run dx9 games half as fast as radeon9800s