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  1. #1
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Post My View of a P4 from a AMD & P3 Background.

    Well I just got my new 2.6c P4 and a IS7 with 1x512MB of Kingston HyperX Cas2 2-2-2 DDR. The Machine I upgraded from was a 1700+ @ 2GHz at the time, I became use to the quickness of the 2.0GHz of AMD power with 166 Bus. It did everything I wanted it to do but my reason For upgrading was to compair Intel to AMD on the grounds of price/preformence for my customers at my work.

    In the past I have used: K6-2's, PII's, pIII's, Athlons, Athlon Xp's, Durons, Celerons, and even VIA's. What was keeping my from trying the P4 was the price, but now that I found a much better source for money this is no longer an issue. With much research and contemplation I fell upon the purchase or a Intel P4 2.6c with HT and 800FSB, the abit IS7 with the Springdale i865 chipset, and one stick of single channel Kingston Cas2 2-2-2 DDR 3200. Overall with a Heatsink it cost a hair under $450usd.

    My first impressions were that the products that I bought looked to be of high quality which should be the case with such a pricey (for me) buy. The processor was quite heavy for how small it looked, and the pins looked easy to bind because of the size but this was not the case as they were sturdy and stout. The board had may features that I liked and use such as 3 Firewire Ports, 8 USB2, Gigabit Ethernet, SATA, RAID 0, and the overall look and rugged build. Also I found the stock Intel mounting system to be near flawless and easy to use.

    CPU Preformence was at par (stock) with my Athlon that was at 2.0GHz, the Windows 2000 Pro Install went easy and as it should with a quick system, I went trough the typical driver install as well as all my programs. Updated windows to current status and set my desktop and all other personal touches. Overall the system (stock) was quick, a little faster IMO then my Athlon which is about right when compairing AMD power to Intel power, but to run the 2.6 stock was not the reason for me picking it, it was to Overclock it (duh of course ).

    My overclocking AMD experence was extensive, I took a 1.47 and pushed it to 2.45GHz on Air which for ANY AMD is a accomplishment in itself. So I was not a rookie to making a Chip come to it's knees when squeezing it for every ounce of preformence. I started playing with the Memory and the FSB settings, I locked the AGP and PCI busses so they would not hamper any attempt to push this chip. I first started to see the limits of my ram, I played with settings and came the relize that I got one of the worst sticks (OC-wise) that I have ever bought. It would only do as sold nothing more. So now with a semi dud stick of memory I just got screwed on unlocking the true memory bandwith of this chip, well cannot blame the processor for this folly my next try was to push this new chip of mine to insane levels, I heavly relaxed the ram, and put the 3:2 CPU:RAM ratio to make sure that the ram would not keep me from reaching a high chip overclock, to bad for me I still had a Tried and true 350w Powersupply that I used on my athlon which rails stood strong in the face of heavy air cooled overclocking. The only thing I did not factor was that this P4 Draws heavly off the 12v rail which sorry for me was not enough for this thursty P4. When in the hight of my 1700+ overclock my 12v rail never diped below 12v but stock this processor took this rail to sub 11.8v range and with a slight overclock at 2.9GHz it pulled the rail to a horrable 11.68v. Damn an other upgrade . Sorry to say that the OC aspect of my first look will not happen till this tempory problem finds it's 530w fix.

    The Stock feeling was in ways much quicker then my Athlon, for one my HDD sandra scores were Much faster then my VIA based KT333 board, (now this proves VIA sucks). Any I/O opreations were from a little quicker to noticeably quicker. This is just as importain as any clock speed, becuase this is usally the bottle neck in almost any system. Also one thing that is cool and often overrated it Hyper-Threading, it has it's pluses but as a realistic and useable technology it is still in it's infancy.


    Overall the P4 is a real plus in any upgrade, as for power it has a little more then AMD but this comes at a price, but what I really like about the P4 based system is that it has a much cleaner chipset that is the Backbone, and basically makes or breakes the system in teams of speed and reliably. As I said before my PSU is keeping me from finding the limits of this hopefully highly overclockable chip. All in all it is a cool upgrade not becuase of it's speed but the usefull features that can be found on almost any Intel based board.

  2. #2
    Member micamica1217's Avatar
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    wow, another AMD fan converted...OK, I know you'll build another AMD rig, but it's so nice to hear your story.
    sorry that everything didn't work out so well.
    now you must realise how other AMD/INTEL OCing rookies must feal.

    I can't remember what memory I've recamended to you....
    but I know it wasn't what you got.
    may I sugjest that you don't ever skimp on your next mem perchase and get some great PC3500 or PC3700.
    my first choice would be mushkin lvlII black PC3500.
    next would have to be OCZ PC3500 or PC3700.

    belive me, you don't need some PC4000....one day they'll be good. but not now.

    also, sorry that your PSU also held you back.
    antec true 430 is what I'm using....any of the true PSU's should be more then you'll need. (430w-550w)

    what you may not realise is that you realy should get two sticks of memory.
    man, the bandwith is unreal as compared to AMD.

    one more thing.....
    I've never updated my chipset drivers past what is on the CD with my last few intel chipset mobos.
    I can fully say that I've never had a problem, and I don't miss updating via's 4in1 drivers every month or two.

    I hope that after a few upgrades, that you'll realy know the true power of your chip....and system.

    good luck

    mica
    Q6600 @ 3.0 (3.2 max OC), MSI P6N SLI plat, 4gigs corsair xms2, 2x 9800gtx KO in SLI, X-Fi XGamer, 2x Seagate Barracuda 250gb, Light-on 20x DVD, Thermaltake 750w PSU, air cooled with Ultama-90 and Antec 900 case....Soyo (24D6) 24" wide 14139 vantage

    " Comparing the technical relevance of The Inquirer to Beyond3D is like comparing the technical prowess of Paris Hilton to John Carmack." -Albuquerque


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  3. #3
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by micamica1217
    wow, another AMD fan converted...OK, I know you'll build another AMD rig, but it's so nice to hear your story.
    sorry that everything didn't work out so well.
    now you must realise how other AMD/INTEL OCing rookies must feal.

    I can't remember what memory I've recamended to you....
    but I know it wasn't what you got.
    may I sugjest that you don't ever skimp on your next mem perchase and get some great PC3500 or PC3700.
    my first choice would be mushkin lvlII black PC3500.
    next would have to be OCZ PC3500 or PC3700.

    belive me, you don't need some PC4000....one day they'll be good. but not now.

    also, sorry that your PSU also held you back.
    antec true 430 is what I'm using....any of the true PSU's should be more then you'll need. (430w-550w)

    what you may not realise is that you realy should get two sticks of memory.
    man, the bandwith is unreal as compared to AMD.

    one more thing.....
    I've never updated my chipset drivers past what is on the CD with my last few intel chipset mobos.
    I can fully say that I've never had a problem, and I don't miss updating via's 4in1 drivers every month or two.

    I hope that after a few upgrades, that you'll realy know the true power of your chip....and system.

    good luck

    mica
    Well not really converted, I believe that both the chips are fast it is just that Intel as more going for it with its stronger chipsets, from what I have seen so far.....

    Overclocking, the only thaing I have been able to push that was Intel was a 866 PIII which landed 166fsb and 1080 on stock voltage, so I hope this 2.6c can wing that no problem with a better psu. Right now at stock the 12v is at 11.73 . Dang I wish I knew these suckers like the 12v rail.

  4. #4
    Member micamica1217's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mr. $T$


    Well not really converted, I believe that both the chips are fast it is just that Intel as more going for it with its stronger chipsets, from what I have seen so far.....

    Overclocking, the only thaing I have been able to push that was Intel was a 866 PIII which landed 166fsb and 1080 on stock voltage, so I hope this 2.6c can wing that no problem with a better psu. Right now at stock the 12v is at 11.73 . Dang I wish I knew these suckers like the 12v rail.
    how stable is she?

    your mobo may be giving you unrealisticly low voltage readings.
    test for stability, and let me know.

    I'm going to bed now, so I hope to hear from you in the morning.

    also, never go above 1.675vcore.

    mica
    Q6600 @ 3.0 (3.2 max OC), MSI P6N SLI plat, 4gigs corsair xms2, 2x 9800gtx KO in SLI, X-Fi XGamer, 2x Seagate Barracuda 250gb, Light-on 20x DVD, Thermaltake 750w PSU, air cooled with Ultama-90 and Antec 900 case....Soyo (24D6) 24" wide 14139 vantage

    " Comparing the technical relevance of The Inquirer to Beyond3D is like comparing the technical prowess of Paris Hilton to John Carmack." -Albuquerque


    [OCG] Fraging at it's finest.

  5. #5
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by micamica1217


    how stable is she?

    your mobo may be giving you unrealisticly low voltage readings.
    test for stability, and let me know.

    I'm going to bed now, so I hope to hear from you in the morning.

    also, never go above 1.675vcore.

    mica
    At stock it is 100% stable so far, I don't know if the readings are accurate so time to wip out the trusty volt reader.

    Also it tends to under volt the CPU a bit, (ha abit)

  6. #6
    Inactive Moderator larva's Avatar
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    You need two things, a good power supply and a second stick of ram. You have built the fisher-price P4 (single channel), you are just scratching the surface of what they offer performance-wise. What chips does this value ram have on it? Perhaps it would be wise to return it and get two sticks of a decent BH5 chip variety.
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  7. #7
    AznSniper AZN's Avatar
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    Originally posted by larva
    You have built the fisher-price P4 (single channel),.
    haha, yeah get another stick of ram cuase the P4 unlike amd really does make a difference with dual channel. you dont need the best antec to get the pr working good just a sparkle 350w will do the trick for starters. heck i got a $15 sparkle 300 or 350w i cant remember but its doing just fine on my p4 @ 3.5ghz. 12rail is reading 11.67v at load. u said u heavily relaxed timmings, just curious how much? when u get that system to 3.4ghz or more with decent timming on dual channel you will love it.
    "The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all, is the person who argues with him." Stanislaw Jerszy Lec

  8. #8
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by larva
    You need two things, a good power supply and a second stick of ram. You have built the fisher-price P4 (single channel), you are just scratching the surface of what they offer performance-wise. What chips does this value ram have on it? Perhaps it would be wise to return it and get two sticks of a decent BH5 chip variety.


    It is Kingston HyperX Cas2 2-2-2 PC3200 so it really is not value ram, and from what I am told it is BH5. And yes I am thinking of getting 2x 512 of Muskin level II Black 3500 or 3700 if my funds permit me to do so. But right now my car needs a new tranny.

    Also If I were to sell it do you think I could get $110 or so in the Classifides, I put out $135 for it.

  9. #9
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by AZN

    you dont need the best antec to get the pr working good just a sparkle 350w will do the trick for starters. heck i got a $15 sparkle 300 or 350w i cant remember but its doing just fine on my p4 @ 3.5ghz. 12rail is reading 11.67v at load. u said u heavily relaxed timmings, just curious how much? when u get that system to 3.4ghz or more with decent timming on dual channel you will love it.

    I am looking at the 530w Forton for ~$75 on newegg, I also plan on (maybe) putting two raptors in RAID 0 so I probally need the extra power.

    As for timings cas 2.5 and 6-3-3-3 (is that the right order?) there is no way I would run it any more relaxed then that, also the 3:2 means that even at 300FSB (1200) the ram would still run in time, so even at the fastest settings it would not get out of spect.

  10. #10
    Senior Moment batboy's Avatar
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    Forton is a good PS. If you want good BH-5 chip RAM, OCZ PC3500 Platium Edition and Mushkin PC3500 Level II Black are excellent choices.
    2600K, Asus P8P67 Deluxe, 2X2GB G.Skill Pi PC3-2133, PC & Cooling 750W
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Maxvla's Avatar
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    the 530 fortron is a great psu. i have it in my dually 1700 @ 1733mhz and its running very well with perfect rails.

    i wish you luck.
    The Black Hole
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  12. #12
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    I understand i was a full blown amd fan vs pentium suck. I am now a intel man told my wife when i upgrade her computer its getting pentium no questions asked.

  13. #13
    Member micamica1217's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mr. $T$




    It is Kingston HyperX Cas2 2-2-2 PC3200 so it really is not value ram, and from what I am told it is BH5. And yes I am thinking of getting 2x 512 of Muskin level II Black 3500 or 3700 if my funds permit me to do so. But right now my car needs a new tranny.

    Also If I were to sell it do you think I could get $110 or so in the Classifides, I put out $135 for it.
    sometimes we just get a bad stick, and that is what I think you got.
    yet I'm also trubled by your poor 12v rail....

    what I would do is see if maybe you can return the memory.
    asking for some better ram, I see no reason why you'll have problems.
    anyway, both I as well as others have given you a few memory as well as PSU recamendations.
    I hope that you'll be fine when all is done.

    mica
    Q6600 @ 3.0 (3.2 max OC), MSI P6N SLI plat, 4gigs corsair xms2, 2x 9800gtx KO in SLI, X-Fi XGamer, 2x Seagate Barracuda 250gb, Light-on 20x DVD, Thermaltake 750w PSU, air cooled with Ultama-90 and Antec 900 case....Soyo (24D6) 24" wide 14139 vantage

    " Comparing the technical relevance of The Inquirer to Beyond3D is like comparing the technical prowess of Paris Hilton to John Carmack." -Albuquerque


    [OCG] Fraging at it's finest.

  14. #14
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Now this is really odd, I took the kingston stick out and put my old Corsair 2700 Cas2 7-3-3 stick in there, I can push it to DDR 3700 on 2.8v and Cas 2.5 My processor does 3.1GHz on stock voltage and I hope to get more out of it when I can get my hands on a better PSU, because my rails keep droping I am typing on 3GHz and 11.68 12v Rail. Also this ram cannot keep stock stable unless I give it 2.7v so back it goes, and I'll get Dual OCZ or Mushkin when I get some money from Payday.

  15. #15
    Lancelot's Avatar
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    My HyperX also needs 2.75V to be stable at 2-2-2-5 and won't even POST at it's specified 2.6V, but this seems to be common. I dunno about your PSU cuz I'm running a 350W Fortron PFC PSU, and with my 2.8C @3.5Ghz 251FSB and 1GB HyperX my 12V rail is between 11.79 and 11.85V and I've experienced no problems whatsoever...
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  16. #16
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Lancelot
    My HyperX also needs 2.75V to be stable at 2-2-2-5 and won't even POST at it's specified 2.6V, but this seems to be common. I dunno about your PSU cuz I'm running a 350W Fortron PFC PSU, and with my 2.8C @3.5Ghz 251FSB and 1GB HyperX my 12V rail is between 11.79 and 11.85V and I've experienced no problems whatsoever...

    I think that maybe that this stick is not BH-5 because my motherboard all of a sudden likes the Corsair stick and will go 3GHz like I said before, so there is somthing up here and I have no idea what it is.

  17. #17
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Ok more strange news,

    I can boot into windows at 3.2 and stock voltage however crashed a few seconds into it, I try to raise the vcore but it seems to have no effect on the stability

  18. #18
    Member micamica1217's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mr. $T$
    Ok more strange news,

    I can boot into windows at 3.2 and stock voltage however crashed a few seconds into it, I try to raise the vcore but it seems to have no effect on the stability
    I can't realy comment on this, because I need more info....
    what ram used, timmings, vdimm, bla, bla

    anyway, I too think that your kingston is not BH-5.
    yet that corsair probably is some old BH-5 that seems to do well for you.

    I hope that your luck will improve once you get a new PSU, and some matched sticks of high quality memory.
    your cpu seems to want to go higher, lets all hope for the best.

    mica
    Q6600 @ 3.0 (3.2 max OC), MSI P6N SLI plat, 4gigs corsair xms2, 2x 9800gtx KO in SLI, X-Fi XGamer, 2x Seagate Barracuda 250gb, Light-on 20x DVD, Thermaltake 750w PSU, air cooled with Ultama-90 and Antec 900 case....Soyo (24D6) 24" wide 14139 vantage

    " Comparing the technical relevance of The Inquirer to Beyond3D is like comparing the technical prowess of Paris Hilton to John Carmack." -Albuquerque


    [OCG] Fraging at it's finest.

  19. #19
    Member Mr. $T$'s Avatar
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    Corsair PC2700 Cas 2 7-3-3, nothing special however it seems to be able to take 240FSB on 2.8v with Cas 2.5 7-3-3

  20. #20
    Member stan03's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mr. $T$
    Ok more strange news,

    I can boot into windows at 3.2 and stock voltage however crashed a few seconds into it, I try to raise the vcore but it seems to have no effect on the stability
    is this with a new ps? if not, im betting that the powersupply caused that too.

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