550E @ 825

anvil (Jun 20, 2001 12:54 p.m.):
Phil,

You asked "why those figures" (800 at 128 fsb versus a 700 at 138 fsb). Because both are 5 mhz off of the standard of 133 fsb. At least some Abit boards provide 1/4 divider for speeds below and above 133. For someone with a board with that kind of flexibility, the amount "off spec" for the pci is the same for both chips. Boards vary.

On the other hand, if the person overclocking is determined to push the chip up towards or above 1000, then it becomes relevant that the 800's posted in the Database have an average oc speed of 990 mhz whereas the 700's posted in the Database have an average of only 955 mhz. Not surprising since Intel is selling the 800 as a faster chip overall.

Hellraiser said he would try a 850 to see how high he could get it. I assume he is shooting for higher cpu speed (they average 1025 in the Database!)and accepts that he isn't going to get 150 fsb since that would be 1275 mhz, ... a rare speed for p3, even the 1000.

As prices fall, it is not as clear a choice for the 700 anymore. Depends on what people want, what they can pay and what their mb allows.

I apologize if this comes across as a debate, I don't intend it to. What you have said is true if the motherboard has limited dividers and if high fsb's are most important. It is just that there are a lot of other choices that are reasonable these days.

anvil

Click to expand...

Well I still say the 700 is the clear choice, in fact if you can find a cCO 650 then this would be even better as long as you have the bus options. It's not just price it's that the 700 just has the best multiplyer. I would sooner run over spec slightly than under. A 700 on a 150mhz fsb vs an 800 on a 131mhz which gives the same speed of about 1.05ghz , the 700 would win this easily and like I've been saying the 700 has the option of running at 133mhz is it tops out under 1ghz, where as an 800 will be running a fair bit under spec.

Phil,

You are absolutely right if, ... IF the 700 and the 800 both oc to the same speed. But if the 800 (or 850 or whatever) goes faster, and the Database hints that there is a good chance that these will, then the 800+ may well get the nod.

It is a gamble every time unless you buy a guaranteed chip, but the odds of high speeds are apparently better (judging from the Database) with the higher speed chips.

The Database may be flawed, but it is hard for me to believe that so many hundreds of separate people are conspiring to give false information to benefit one chip or another, so I tend to take that data as more reliable than the occasional post here of either a success or a failure.

My guess is that when Intel develops a line of chips, say the cB0 stepping. they start with prices high, ... so few people buy the high speed chips. What does Intel do? Stockpile the percentage that run fast or sell them as lower speed chips. My guess is the latter. So when prices are high, the lower speed chip will oc well. When the prices come down, the higher speed chips sell well so fewer premium chips end up being sold as low speed chips. Moral: buy a low rated chip when the chips first appear, ... unless the whole line is full of dogs like the early p3 steppings, and beware of them when prices fall.

I don't pretend to know any of this for sure, but unless people are currently receiving p3 1000's with a manufacturing date back last year, I'd bet it is not a bad theory.

anvil

I agree with Anvil. Before I bought the 850E, I checked the database. In there lots of chips have achived 8.5*124 (1054 MHz) only with aircooling. THere is even one that reached 8.5*150 with a vaporchill!!!!!

So , for sake of the argument, you buy right now a 700E and a 850E. Both will be cC0. Both could reach and break the 1 GHz barrier, But, depending in your setup, one could max there and the other could reach higher clock speeds. If you already have a peltier system, chances are you could easily reach 1.1 GHz (157 FSB for the 700 and 129 with the 850). What if you can reach with the 850 130 FSB? or 133? higher? you wouldn't know if you just bought the 700!!!!! Right now the 800 and 850 chips have reached the same prices than a 700. So why don't we try to oc higher? Are we afraid that we won't succed?
I thought that oc mean taking some chances (as long as your rig is safe). If you take your time, cool down your system, tweak a little here and there, best chances are that you could reach a higher speed than the average.

Well, that are my 2 cents.

i would like to thank everyone taking time to think about this.

i really appreciate it.

all i´d like to add is the following:

i have been runnig my 550E@825 for over a year now, and i know my hardware setup is stable @ 150FSB i also think that my watercooling is doing great since i have rather constant temp on cpu with 11 deg. celcius over room temp which has a constant 19 deg. . i am going to upgrade my watercooling rig and i know a can loose another 4 to 5 deg. for sure, maybe a bit more.

my goal is to buy a chip which can or will run @ 150 fsb, since i know that my system is completly stable at this fsb. sure, i cant get i chip with a gurantee that it will run @ 150 fsb but i will have to try, and everyone of you people is helping me to decide....although i dont really quite know yet. yes, my goal is the highest speed possible with the chip i will buy, logically because i want to reach the limit of the chip, since i already reached the limit with all my other hardware ( 150fsb - stable ).

maybe i can help somehow by providing this info on what i could get my hands on here in vienna:

Intel Pentium III 600MHz, 133MHz FSB (600B) 3095,--
Intel Pentium III 667MHz, 133MHz FSB (667EB) 3499,--
Intel Pentium III 700MHz (700E) 2420,--
Intel Pentium III 733MHz, 133MHz FSB (733EB) 3593,--
Intel Pentium III 750MHz (750E) 2400,--
Intel Pentium III 800MHz (800E) boxed 3350,--
Intel Pentium III 800MHz, 133MHz FSB (800EB) 2999,--
Intel Pentium III 800MHz, 133MHz FSB (800EB) 3099,--
Intel Pentium III 850MHz (850E) 3280,--
Intel Pentium III 850MHz (850E) boxed 3490,--
Intel Pentium III 933MHz, 133MHz FSB (933EB) 4133.--
Intel Pentium III 1000MHz (1000E) 4490,--
Intel Pentium III 1000MHz (1000E) boxed 4650,--

thx again for your time,

Hellraiser

I would say that it is as close to certain as you can get that anything from a 7x multiplyer downward will reach a 150mhz fsb or the 1ghz EB will as well. If you buy an 800 or 850 you will probabally get to over 1ghz with them but at the expense of fsb. If you can afford the 1ghz p3 then this will get you to a 150mhz fsb but if you cant then the 700 is the best choice for you which a lot of the people who have been argueing with me have forgotten that I am talking about the best choice for you. With out a peltier you will not reach a 150mhz fsb with anything higher than a 700, unless you are very lucky. and I would say that over 800mhz just won't reach a 150mhz fsb of course again you are very lucky so go for the 700 or 1ghz EB

I agree with Phil, ... if your priority is to reach 150 fsb. If those are prices that you are listing, it certainly gives you the most for your money in pursuit of that goal.

Okay, Phil?


anvil

My point all along. If he'd been able to get a higher fsb I would have suggested the 800EB or 866 but he couldn't so would have had sub ghz speeds and any of the E's abover the 700 would have meant a lower fsb so the 700 made sense in his case and a lot of peoples cases.

Check out those prices.

Take note, the 700(E) is half the P3 1GHZ, and for 20% cost to the 700(E) you will reach that 1GHZ.

That's why I overclock!!

That, and to say I do it (it's like a badge where I work, with other techs, that don't dare to even try and tread where we do on a daily,.. hell hourly basis).

To be honest, we should always say may reach the gig. I read a post today of a guy with a p3 1000 that wouldn't reach it! (He certainly deserves another chip if it doesn't.) I hope Hellraiser gets a good one, but there are no guarantees (unless you pay for it, of course).

anvil

anvil (Jun 22, 2001 08:36 p.m.):
...but there are no guarantees (unless you pay for it, of course).

anvil

Click to expand...

Blaspemy!

anvil (Jun 22, 2001 08:36 p.m.):
To be honest, we should always say may reach the gig. I read a post today of a guy with a p3 1000 that wouldn't reach it! (He certainly deserves another chip if it doesn't.) I hope Hellraiser gets a good one, but there are no guarantees (unless you pay for it, of course).

anvil

Click to expand...

The guys got watercooling so come one the odds of not reaching a 150mhz fsb are slim, and even if he doesn't the odds of not reaching a 133mhz fsb are so slim they put my bandy legs to shame

I checked the Database for cooling systems at least as good as a water cooled system.

A quick survey of the p3 700 cpu Database suggested that roughly 43 people posted that they were cooling with peltier and/or water.

Of those 43, 13 managed to reach 150 fsb, and 30 did not.

I may have overlooked some cooling systems that were peltier or water, because I did not recognize the trade name, and many identifiable ones were listed twice. I tried to avoid counting those the second time. I think my figures are approximately right.

anvil

how many people in total reached 150mhz though as obviously some one with air cooling would reach it with water cooling, and some one who only gets 933mhz or so with air cooling may have reached 150 with watercooling. Plus these results aren't exactly very up to date, more recent chips are better, I would still say he has a very good chance of a 150mhz fsb.
And also all the chips that scored more than 150mhz fsb and all the people who only tryed a 133mhz fsb and no higher. I don't think a cpu database is a very good means of gauging what you might get.

To answer your question, something less than 57 out of 654 posts reached 150 fsb or better, something less than 1 in 10.

To guess how many air cooled at 133 fsb that may have done better with water would be pure speculation. No doubt there are many processors that in more able hands or with better equipment would do better.

My previous report was just to address the question of whether or not "water cooled" insures success at 150 fsb, so I confined my attention to posters using equipment comparable to or better than water cooled with the p3 700.

You are correct that the data is not entirely current, which is a deficiency in the Database. As to whether or not more recent processors are more likely to succeed at high speed, one can find support for both a positive view and a negative view. Apparently things change rapidly.

"CompuWiz1" is a well known figure on Anandtech forums. A couple of months ago he was not even offering 933 guaranteed 700's because he said the recent supply he had been getting had few chips that could go even that high. Recently he has gotten back in the business, I gather, so it may be better now. The only way to be certain of success is to purchase a guaranteed chip. Of course, if you buy a Intel guaranteed chip and it reaches the guaranteed speed, that is not called overclocking is it?

Any knowledge is better than no knowledge. So I personally am willing to listen to the experiences of people posting in the Database, here or even on Anandtech. I try to learn from all sources, including you Phil.

It is just that I could never tell anyone that success is certain, or even near certain, in the actual oc game, based on these varied sources or my own experiences.

anvil

Peace

thanks again for all the info...

btw all these prices are austrian shillings...i dont know the rate now for converting them into us$.

i gues rough that 1 us$ is about 12 austrian shillings.

ok, so i gues i should choose between a 700E or a 1000E.

i gues ill go for the 1000E, although i am quit disturbed by the fact that i think i read that intel was selling 1000E chips which then didnt reach the 1000MHz which they are supposed to. i´m not sure if i am talking junk, but i thought i might share this concern before i spend all the money...

thx again for your time fellas

Which was why I didn't say it was certain, but very close to. I will be surprised if he doesn't reach 150mhz fsb with water cooling though, very surprised

Hellraiser,

Good luck and let us know how you do.

anvil

PS Phil. Is that photo of a son or grandson? ehhhh ... you? Nice lookin young man.

It's a pic of me from 8 years ago when I was 10 and I got on the front page of the manchester evening news, it was much bigger on the paper (It was the biggest picture on the frontpage) and it's my current claim to fame.