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  1. #1
    Member murrayman's Avatar
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    Question 2500+ Barton to 3200+ 64, worth it?

    I'm shortly going to be upgrading my Abit NF7 and Athlon 2500+ Barton to a AMD 64 system.

    First of all, I've got my barton OC'd to a 3200+ (400FSB, 11-M locked). I'm going to be using the memory out of my NF7 mobo (for a short time) for my AMD 64 system (SimpleTech PC3200 512MB) . I'm also taking out my Powercolor ATI Radeon 9600XT Ultra and SB Live! 5.1 out of my NF7 to use in the 64 system (the sound card will shortly be upgraded to a Audigy 2 ZS). I'm also keeping everything else (HD, PSU, CD-RW, DVD+RW, etc.) inside the case, but the mobo and CPU (and heatsink/fan) are going.

    I'm wondering if it's worth the money (for mostly gaming performance) to upgrade from this system to a AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (ClawHammer) or 3000+ (New Castle) and what kind of performance I should expect to get out of one of these. I'm also wondering if anyone has any recommendations on the mobo I should choose. And is the retail heatsink/fan with the 64 line good to use for the normal clock AND if I want to OC it?
    HP Pavilion dv5-1113us 15" laptop
    AMD Turion 64 X2 RM-72 2.1GHz
    4GB DDR2 RAM
    ATI Radeon HD 3200
    IDT HD Audio

    Heat

  2. #2
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    well I would suggest atleast waiting for 1 more week and see what the performace reviews for new 939 processors are.

  3. #3
    Member murrayman's Avatar
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    What is this "939 Socket" chip supposed to be? I've only heard of the socket 940 for the FX line.
    HP Pavilion dv5-1113us 15" laptop
    AMD Turion 64 X2 RM-72 2.1GHz
    4GB DDR2 RAM
    ATI Radeon HD 3200
    IDT HD Audio

    Heat

  4. #4
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    Please read the sticky titled "A64 CPUs, chipsets, motherboards " It has all the info you ever need.

  5. #5
    Member Sir Barton's Avatar
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    socket 939 will be the FX i think, not totally sure so somebody correct me if im wrong. the 939 will use unbuffered DIMMs, whereas 940 requires the ECC DIMMs. socket 940 from here on out will be opteron only.

    main system: Antec P180 | Asus P8Z68V-Pro | i5 2500k (stock) | 8GB HyperX 1600 | Sparkle 560Ti | 120GB HyperX (Wintendo) | 60GB Vertex (Debian)
    laptop: Dell Inspiron 11z | Pentium SU4100 | 4GB Crucial 667 | 30GB Vertex
    2nd system: Antec P180 | Gigabyte P35-DS3L | E5200 (stock) | 4GB G. Skill 800 | eVGA 9500GT | 60GB Vertex (Mint Debian)
    server: Chenbro SR10769 | Supermicro X7DWE | 2x Xeon L5420 | 8GB Kingston FB 667 | 4x 500GB WD Black RAID 10 | 4x Hitachi 7K300.C | Debian 6
    media clients: 4x Apple TV 2 | 2x XIOS DS | 3x Squeezebox Duet

  6. #6
    Member murrayman's Avatar
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    Appreciate the info, guys. I'll be waiting on the results on those 939's for now.
    HP Pavilion dv5-1113us 15" laptop
    AMD Turion 64 X2 RM-72 2.1GHz
    4GB DDR2 RAM
    ATI Radeon HD 3200
    IDT HD Audio

    Heat

  7. #7
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    Recently, I did some analysis, I came to a conclusion that for NEW build system, a 754 system w/ 250 GB chipset can be as cost effective as a Nforce2 + mobile Barton, with 754 being $100 higher but it delivers potentially 15-25% better performance after CPU overclocked. Detailed analysis see link below.

    http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...23#post2770023

    But just to be a little bit patient, since new things are coming in daily or soon to get a clear picture and reviews about all these new stuffs, .....

    Also the 250 GB or K8T800 Pro motherboards seem to be not on the street yet.


    Comparing to a nforce2 + mobile barton,
    these are for price-performance systems, I estimated somewhere 15-30% better in average performance than the above when the 754 CPU overclocked to around 2.5 GHz:

    for $100 more, 2800+/3000+ 754 CPU with 512 KB L2 + 250 GB motherboard (w/ 15-25% better av performance)
    for $200 more, 3200+ 754 CPU with 1 MB L2 + 250 GB motherboard (w/ 20-30% better av performance)


    For 939, PCI-express, .... then will be talking for much longer time for things to be clear and orderable.

    Overclocking sandbox for A64 939 systems with Winchester and beyond
    A64 CPUs, chipsets, motherboards
    A64 Overclocking Result Collection
    Overclocking sandbox: Tbred B DLT3C and beyond
    - DFI LP UT NF4 Ultra-D, Opteron 165 CCBBE 0610 DPMW 3.00 GHz, highest clock 3.30 GHz, XP-90, G. Skill 4800 2 x 512 MB, X800Pro (Winchester 0447 CBBHD 2.83 GHz 314x9 1.52V)
    - ABIT NF7-S rev 2.0, Mobile Barton 2600+ IQYHA 0351 MPMW 2.71 GHz (225x12), 18/37 C, 1.89 V, SLK-947U 80mm Tornado (w/ fan control), 512 MB x 2 3500 C2 2-3-2-5, 9500 np -> 9700 np 360/311
    - ASUS A7N8X DLX, Tbred B 1700+ 0310 XPMW 2.56 GHz (205x12.5) 1.94 V, max at 2.6 GHz, SLK-800U + TT SFII, 48/40 28/26 C, 512MB 3500 C2 2-3-2-5 (retired)
    - Intel 8088 4.77 MHz 8bit CPU, 64KB memory, 1 MB HD, 5 1/4" floppy drive, DOS, 200 bps modem, 80x25 char display

  8. #8
    Senior Benchmark Addict
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    Ok, so lets say I were to decide to upgrade my current system from an nF3 150 to an nF3 250 GB. What exactly would I be getting?
    El<(')>Maxi: I still have your board...and I'm afraid I lost your address so I can't send it back...and my pm box is broken...and I can't remember where the PO is anyway

  9. #9
    Member murrayman's Avatar
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    939, PCI-Express...sounds good to me, and I'm willing to wait on everything to happen. Just sounds like the 64 line needs to evolve some more before any decisions are made now.
    HP Pavilion dv5-1113us 15" laptop
    AMD Turion 64 X2 RM-72 2.1GHz
    4GB DDR2 RAM
    ATI Radeon HD 3200
    IDT HD Audio

    Heat

  10. #10
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    Feb 2003
    It is very tempting to get a new A64 system to overclock for potential 20-30% better performance, compared to an overclocked nfoce2 + CPU system, ....

    But unless there is a 98-100% need to upgrade now, I would wait for the situation to get clearer, for better choice, features, price + yield, and less potential bugs, ....


    Anticipated major milestone for upgarde path
    - Nforce3 150, K8T800 for A64 754 platform (past)

    - 2H 04 (starting May) would be for good price performance system
    ... A64 754 (model and stepping TBD)
    ... Nforce3 250 GB / K8T800 Pro motherboard (winner(s) TBD)
    ... AGP 8X video card, supports non-ECC DDR 400/500 memory module

    - 2H 04 (starting June/July ?) would be for top memory bandwidth system
    ... A64 939 130 nm SOI (model and stepping TBD)
    ... Nforce3 250 GB / K8T800 Pro motherboard (winner(s) TBD)
    ... AGP 8X video card, supports non-ECC DDR 400/500 memory module

    - Towards year end 04/early 05 would be for
    ... A64 939, better CPU price and yield for 130 nm SOI, 90 nm SOI begins (?)
    ... new motherboard w/ PCI-express
    ... new PCI-express video card
    ... supports non-ECC DDR 400/500 memory module

    - End of 05/early 06 would be another major upgrade zone for
    ... DDR2 (if it happens)
    ... new motherboard w/ DDR2 supports
    ... new CPU ?? (not clear whether DDR2 requires new socket)
    ... DDR2 is too far out at this point

    These are the major milestones for upgrading. It does not imply one has to upgrade everytime along the way and right at the beginning. Make the decision based on need, price-performance, .... Listed time is for reference only and may be off.

    Ref:
    A64 CPUs, chipsets, motherboards

    Overclocking sandbox for A64 939 systems with Winchester and beyond
    A64 CPUs, chipsets, motherboards
    A64 Overclocking Result Collection
    Overclocking sandbox: Tbred B DLT3C and beyond
    - DFI LP UT NF4 Ultra-D, Opteron 165 CCBBE 0610 DPMW 3.00 GHz, highest clock 3.30 GHz, XP-90, G. Skill 4800 2 x 512 MB, X800Pro (Winchester 0447 CBBHD 2.83 GHz 314x9 1.52V)
    - ABIT NF7-S rev 2.0, Mobile Barton 2600+ IQYHA 0351 MPMW 2.71 GHz (225x12), 18/37 C, 1.89 V, SLK-947U 80mm Tornado (w/ fan control), 512 MB x 2 3500 C2 2-3-2-5, 9500 np -> 9700 np 360/311
    - ASUS A7N8X DLX, Tbred B 1700+ 0310 XPMW 2.56 GHz (205x12.5) 1.94 V, max at 2.6 GHz, SLK-800U + TT SFII, 48/40 28/26 C, 512MB 3500 C2 2-3-2-5 (retired)
    - Intel 8088 4.77 MHz 8bit CPU, 64KB memory, 1 MB HD, 5 1/4" floppy drive, DOS, 200 bps modem, 80x25 char display

  11. #11
    Member murrayman's Avatar
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    Just curious, I can't get one due to my budget, but what exact difference besides the socket and L2 cache is there in the AMD 64 and AMD 64-FX line in performance and overall (FSB, Multiplier, etc.)?
    HP Pavilion dv5-1113us 15" laptop
    AMD Turion 64 X2 RM-72 2.1GHz
    4GB DDR2 RAM
    ATI Radeon HD 3200
    IDT HD Audio

    Heat

  12. #12
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    Feb 2003
    Socket 754 has 512 KB L2 or 1 MB L2, 64-bit based memory bus (single channel).

    Socket 939 has 512 KB L2 or 1 MB L2, 128-bit based memory bus (dual channel), can work with regular memory modules for non-mission critical system.

    Socket 940 FX has 1 MB L2 (only), based 128-bit memory bus (dual channel), requires registered memory modules. Provision for MP configuration.

    So for 939 with 1 MB L2, when available, it would perform the same as a FX, running at the same frequenies. 939 may be even a bit faster due to the unbuffered memory modules. Both of them have 80% more effective memory bandwidth than the 754, hence they are always better in performance, especially for memory intensive programs, but at a price.

    If not counting memory intensive programs, the advantage of 939 to 754 is only few % on the average.


    IMO, before the price of 939 come down eventually, as yield, availability mature, for price-performance system, a low PR rating 754 with 1 MB L2 seems to be a good choice for building overclocking system.

    CG revision 754 CPU is preferred.


    Comparing to a nforce2 + mobile barton,
    for price-performance systems, I estimated somewhere 15-30% better in average performance than the above when the 754 CPU overclocked to around 2.5 GHz:

    comparing to the price of nforce2 + mobile batron,
    for $100 more, 2800+/3000+ 754 CPU with 512 KB L2 + 250 GB motherboard (w/ 15-25% better av performance)
    for $200 more, 3200+ 754 CPU with 1 MB L2 + 250 GB motherboard (w/ 20-30% better av performance)

    http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...23#post2770023

    250 GB or K8T800 Pro 754 motherboards are not yet available on the street/internet yet, but soon, still waiting, ....
    Last edited by hitechjb1; 05-22-04 at 03:52 PM.

    Overclocking sandbox for A64 939 systems with Winchester and beyond
    A64 CPUs, chipsets, motherboards
    A64 Overclocking Result Collection
    Overclocking sandbox: Tbred B DLT3C and beyond
    - DFI LP UT NF4 Ultra-D, Opteron 165 CCBBE 0610 DPMW 3.00 GHz, highest clock 3.30 GHz, XP-90, G. Skill 4800 2 x 512 MB, X800Pro (Winchester 0447 CBBHD 2.83 GHz 314x9 1.52V)
    - ABIT NF7-S rev 2.0, Mobile Barton 2600+ IQYHA 0351 MPMW 2.71 GHz (225x12), 18/37 C, 1.89 V, SLK-947U 80mm Tornado (w/ fan control), 512 MB x 2 3500 C2 2-3-2-5, 9500 np -> 9700 np 360/311
    - ASUS A7N8X DLX, Tbred B 1700+ 0310 XPMW 2.56 GHz (205x12.5) 1.94 V, max at 2.6 GHz, SLK-800U + TT SFII, 48/40 28/26 C, 512MB 3500 C2 2-3-2-5 (retired)
    - Intel 8088 4.77 MHz 8bit CPU, 64KB memory, 1 MB HD, 5 1/4" floppy drive, DOS, 200 bps modem, 80x25 char display

  13. #13
    Member murrayman's Avatar
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    If the 939's are going to perform like the FX 940's...$$$ is what I don't have to spend. But why are they going from 940's to 939's while keeping the 940's in production (is it like sir barton said about the opterons emerging from socket A to 940?)?
    HP Pavilion dv5-1113us 15" laptop
    AMD Turion 64 X2 RM-72 2.1GHz
    4GB DDR2 RAM
    ATI Radeon HD 3200
    IDT HD Audio

    Heat

  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    Feb 2003
    I am making my own explanation, not from other sources, ....

    The socket 940 Opteron will be there for MP and servers applications. Since connecting for MP, the HT links and ports of the CPU require coherent links and they are different than that of a FX. Even the internal core of a FX is the same as an Opteron (1MB L2 and 128-bit memory bus dual channel).

    FX for single processor can be migrated to socket 939 for cheaper motherboard manufacturing cost due to less PCB layer suffice for wiring 939 socket.

    940 - Opteron MP, 1 MB L2, 128-bit memory bus dual channel
    939 - FX, 512 KB/1 MB L2, 128-bit memory bus dual channel
    754 - 512 KB/1MB L2, 64-bit memory bus single channel


    So can 939 be configured for MP systems, to not support the above arguments or otherwise, ....

    Overclocking sandbox for A64 939 systems with Winchester and beyond
    A64 CPUs, chipsets, motherboards
    A64 Overclocking Result Collection
    Overclocking sandbox: Tbred B DLT3C and beyond
    - DFI LP UT NF4 Ultra-D, Opteron 165 CCBBE 0610 DPMW 3.00 GHz, highest clock 3.30 GHz, XP-90, G. Skill 4800 2 x 512 MB, X800Pro (Winchester 0447 CBBHD 2.83 GHz 314x9 1.52V)
    - ABIT NF7-S rev 2.0, Mobile Barton 2600+ IQYHA 0351 MPMW 2.71 GHz (225x12), 18/37 C, 1.89 V, SLK-947U 80mm Tornado (w/ fan control), 512 MB x 2 3500 C2 2-3-2-5, 9500 np -> 9700 np 360/311
    - ASUS A7N8X DLX, Tbred B 1700+ 0310 XPMW 2.56 GHz (205x12.5) 1.94 V, max at 2.6 GHz, SLK-800U + TT SFII, 48/40 28/26 C, 512MB 3500 C2 2-3-2-5 (retired)
    - Intel 8088 4.77 MHz 8bit CPU, 64KB memory, 1 MB HD, 5 1/4" floppy drive, DOS, 200 bps modem, 80x25 char display

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