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fatguy said:
Just some thoughts...
I believe you are making a generalization based on a unique experience. I had (still have) a 9800PRO and have no problems with any of these games. You could've bought a new ATI card and had the problems go way........

Again, another generalization based on 1 person's experience. I was able to get a very good overclock on every single one of my ATI cards.
Isnt it funny how things become "generalizations" when it speaks poorly for their camp? :D...how much more f-ing specific do you want me to be!?!?! LOL:D
 
i'm not trying to make things worst, but my 9800pro has problems running HL2. I tried all different kinds of drivers and HL2 is still artifacting. It's not random, but its like the walls, windows, guns, hands, faces, will have random artifacting. It will go away temporary everything i hit ALT ENTER to exit to windows.

I have to revert back to an old driver which I was lucky to find somewhere in my harddrive and then the artifacting goes away. I will post the name of that driver when I get home tonight. However, I do notice the game does run a little choppy (which probably means that I am losing FPS by using this old driver), and the IQ don't look that nice.

If you want to, I will probably try to do a screen shot with the new driver this weekend and show you guys the artifacting, but I probably won't have time. I will be leaving next friday on a long business trip and I have too many things to do now.
 
well I have been an ati fanboy since the 9500np, and i have 2 9600xt's, a 9200 pci for my beater and a 9800pro aiw. I just bought a 6800np for my main rig. What I have found out is this. The ati cards have all been finicky, especially when the cards are pushed hard, ie(doom3 or far cry). Also I have had to RMA 2 of my ati cards. Basically I think that the ati cards for thier time were the best value you could get. But the new 6000 series of NVidia cards are much better. Stronger card for the money, they run dx9 games very nicely and are far superior with open gl. I have installed and benchmarked the 6600gt pci-e, 6800np, 6800ultra, and 6800gt. I am putting my money into NVidia for this generation of video cards. Also if you are spending under $300 it is a no brainer, becouse ati doesn't have an agp card that is under $300 that will compete with a 6600gt or 6800 np. I don't spend $400+ on my graphics cards. Last genre the 9600 line was great this time it will be the 6600 that everyone will be after for thier rigs. If anyone can comeup with a comparable agp card toe the 6600gt or the 6800np for under $300 in ati right now I would love to find it.
 
fatguy said:
Supply and Demand maybe? ;)
Based on how hard it is to find an X800XT sometimes, this is probably true, and only emphisizes the fact that ATI is having yeild problems. As for wether there are OCing problems or not, I can't say (since I'm too lazy to open up the OC database :D), but it's possible given the poor yeilds. :)

JigPu
 
Welp, my X800XT (Default 500/500) went right in my PC and right to 520/560. I'm going to let it go for a bit before I see how high I can take it. $475 shipped for an XT PE, not bad for the best video card on the market.
 
your assumptions are okay sen, but just dont generalize about it specialy talking to somebody who doesnt kno all the stuff you do. it would be okay just to tag them with "in my experience"...

in my own experience i love ATI IQ, as i say its like loosing virginity, once you see an ati card with so crisp textures youll feel crippled without that LOL

also id like you both sentential and mica to comment about the supposed shimering fix... im now decided on an x800xtpro vivo but i wanna know if that shimmering bug has big fixed... it would only leave FSAA left lol

EDIT: i just wanna add that after looking at anandtechs x850 review... IM SOLD FOR THE X800XL... it has 16 pipes enabled, its PCI-E and an ati silencer 4 might do the job for XT speeds... what do you guys think?
 
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ur all wrong

6800GT. The x800 overheats and isnt designed for direct x 9c. which is in 6 months games will want. the 6800GT is improved, Nvidia totally redid their core and now the image quality is better than x800.
 
ComPuterFreak90 said:
6800GT. The x800 overheats and isnt designed for direct x 9c. which is in 6 months games will want. the 6800GT is improved, Nvidia totally redid their core and now the image quality is better than x800.

Where did you get that lot from? ati still beat nvidia in IQ and both are dx9 cards....
 
PhobMX said:
your assumptions are okay sen, but just dont generalize about it specialy talking to somebody who doesnt kno all the stuff you do. it would be okay just to tag them with "in my experience"...

in my own experience i love ATI IQ, as i say its like loosing virginity, once you see an ati card with so crisp textures youll feel crippled without that LOL

also id like you both sentential and mica to comment about the supposed shimering fix... im now decided on an x800xtpro vivo but i wanna know if that shimmering bug has big fixed... it would only leave FSAA left lol

EDIT: i just wanna add that after looking at anandtechs x850 review... IM SOLD FOR THE X800XL... it has 16 pipes enabled, its PCI-E and an ati silencer 4 might do the job for XT speeds... what do you guys think?
Fair enough:D...as for the ATi IQ issue...you get over it quickly ;). Yes the shimmering issue is gone. Onward and upward!


ComPuterFreak90 said:
6800GT. The x800 overheats and isnt designed for direct x 9c. which is in 6 months games will want. the 6800GT is improved, Nvidia totally redid their core and now the image quality is better than x800.
...ummm almost everyone here realizes that PS3 is a gimick. The real benefit to the 6800 is its speed / stability, not neccessararly its IQ. Because frankly, compared to ATi, its IQ is pretty shoddy. Even Ill admit that. However, ATI's stabilty is about as steady as a crack fiend going through withdrawls:D

Vrykyl said:
Where did you get that lot from? ati still beat nvidia in IQ and both are dx9 cards....
umm yea id like to hear this one
 
EDIT: i just wanna add that after looking at anandtechs x850 review... IM SOLD FOR THE X800XL... it has 16 pipes enabled, its PCI-E and an ati silencer 4 might do the job for XT speeds... what do you guys think?
Dude I am TOTALLY with you on that one. Did you notice that it is also on a die shrink? ie .11:drool:...this could prove interesting.

My only ph3ar is that it will be power starved seeing how it doesnt have a molex connector :-/
 
Sentential said:
Dude I am TOTALLY with you on that one. Did you notice that it is also on a die shrink? ie .11:drool:...this could prove interesting.

My only ph3ar is that it will be power starved seeing how it doesnt have a molex connector :-/

being on .11 isn't really a good thing, means will it wont have low-k.
 
Probably moving across for price competitive reasons. More chips per silicon wafer = lower cost per chip produced.....
 
bizhar said:
Well at least nvidia recognizes that some people don't use windoze.

Hey, just curious. is linux better/more productive for f@h than Windows?
 
Sentential said:
As I said before.....OpenGL and DirectX are completely different engines. nVidia is FAR faster in OpenGL games like Doom, and KOTR, and Neverwinternights. ATi is faster in DirectX, its as simple as that


...try 6 months ago. My 9800PRO had all sorts of stability problems playing games like America's Army, Call of Duty, and Farcry. All went away once I got my 6800GT

Its really your call. ATi and nV both have their stregnths and weaknesses. Example:

-nV-
(Pros)
*Better chip yeild 90% of all GTs go past Ultra clocks without mods. 60% of All NUs flash to GT and can obtain those speeds on occasion. I dont see *any* x800PROs besides the VIVOs (which are more than the GTs anyway) that can successfully flash to XT and stay that way witout dying. And with 16 pipes they overclock like ****.
Example:
Vrykryl
Batboy

*Best drivers on the planet More a personal preference but from my experince with ATi thus far, I stand by this.
*Most stable / free of graphical glitches meaning game conflicts. They may have IQ issues but never stability issues (to my knowledge). Ie you never see nV releasing drivers to fix "game stability" like ATi does.

*"TWIMTBP" "The Way its meant to be played" (game company agreements that optimized for nV hardware)yet in many cases, ATI cards beat the NV cards in TWIMTBP games...including UT2004

(Cons)
*High power draw
*High heat
*IQ is inferior to ATI unless modified with drivers they fixed the shimmering issue with the "null LOD BIAS" fix

* IQ issues with shadows (also fixable) Ideed, I meant stability / OS issues, not visual ones

ATi
(Pros)
*Best IQ...hands down
*Blistering fast even with high levels of AA / AINSO
*Temporal Anti-alaising (doubles AA with no peformance loss, *ie removes jaggies)
*Low power and heat
*Extrodinarly fast in DirectX

(Cons)
*Poor driver stability . Yes thats what Im saying. ATi drivers from my expericne are buggy as hell.

*Extremely bad yeilds and poor overclockers (especially bad on RAM) batboy's x800XT coudlnt even do PE speeds

*More Expensive GameVE and newegg have the prices of GTs significantally lower than the x800PROs. I have yet to see 5 PROs that cost under $380. Ive seen almost a dozen GTs taht do

*Horrible OpenGL support (1/2 as fast as nV in games like Quake4 and Doom3 and KOTR2) I am refering to purely stock without *any* mods. Under these conditions the 6800NU was beating the x800XT, especially with AA / AINSO applied.

*Poor stock cooling Look at how wimpy their cooling is! ATi has *never* been know for their excelent stock cooling solutions. Come on lol :D. The only decent HSF ive seen ATi put out is the one they have on the x850XT, and it needs it

I really sorry for my late reply...busy at home.

I'm really sorry to hear that you had problems with your 9800pro card and a few games, including Farcry.
yet, I can show quite a few people who had or are having bug problems with the 5900's and now the 6800 cards.
infact you've even showed us pics of farcry that had IQ problems with your 6800gt...
so as far as Farcry is concerned, we can ether agree that Farcry with any patch is buggy or we can say that nVidia drivers are not a good as your saying.


*Best drivers on the planet More a personal preference but from my experince with ATi thus far, I stand by this.

I'm really glad you like them (the drivers), but the best on the planet?
after all the testing I've just done on the 6800gt, I would give high marks to nVidia...but not bug free, or the best in the planet.
I've noticed bugs from farcry, HL2, NFSU, with the 6800gt...
4 drivers tested, the latest is 67.02.
bug free? I don't think so.

*Extremely bad yeilds and poor overclockers (especially bad on RAM) batboy's x800XT coudlnt even do PE speeds

that's one persons card results....sorry to hear my old friend had some bad luck.
yet Vrykryl, was able to reach x800xtpe speeds with his card...why is that a bad thing to you?

and with this being a x800pro vs a 6800gt thread...
look here at the results of x800pro users.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=305700

not too shabby with all them results.

*More Expensive GameVE and newegg have the prices of GTs significantally lower than the x800PROs. I have yet to see 5 PROs that cost under $380. Ive seen almost a dozen GTs taht do

you just listed a cheaper x800pro card from newegg....http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-142-027&depa=0

x800pro=389.00 6800gt=392.00
what was your point again?
really, shop around, you'll get a cheap price for whatever your looking for.
they are both great cards.

*Horrible OpenGL support (1/2 as fast as nV in games like Quake4 and Doom3 and KOTR2) I am refering to purely stock without *any* mods. Under these conditions the 6800NU was beating the x800XT, especially with AA / AINSO applied.

using stock cards, best possable playing resolutions/settings, and [H]'s Doom3 hardware guide, I picked a rig that is fast yet within reach of some of us....http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQ0LDE2

A64 3500+, Abit AV8, 1gb corsair PC3200
framerates are min/max/avg...

BFG's slightly OCed 6800nu...1280x1024 8xAF
33/60/57

x800pro...1280x1024 8xAF
24/60/51.7
differance between a 6800nu slightly OCed...18%/0%/10%

x800xtpe....1600x1200 8xAF
25/60/53.5
differance between the slightly OCed 6800nu...why should I bother?

your claims of 100% performance differances in OpenGL are unfounded.

*Poor stock cooling Look at how wimpy their cooling is! ATi has *never* been know for their excelent stock cooling solutions. Come on lol :D. The only decent HSF ive seen ATi put out is the one they have on the x850XT, and it needs it

when the ATI cards have heatsinks that do thier job, and help give temps that are cooler then the nVidia cards...your reaching for something that is unreachable.

*IQ is inferior to ATI unless modified with drivers they fixed the shimmering issue with the "null LOD BIAS" fix

starting with the 67.02/67.03 drivers, yes that "clamp" works nice, but fixed?
I'd say that now the shimmering issue is now 80%-90% gone, yet now the textures past that shimmer point is now "soft" or unsharp.
when your using 8x or 16x AF, that is not what some might want.
solving one problem, by adding another, is not what I'd call a fix.
I will say it might look better then what you can get with rivatuner.
it was just, OK, in my UT2004 testing....I can live with it, but I can't speak for everyone.

I'm not trying to fight here, infact I think that both cards are great.
you also make some great points.

yet I still can't find a buisness report or a ATI statement that states that they are having yeild problems.
in my local bestbuy you can find nVidia cards in one week, with no ATI cards...
the next week, I find ATI cards (even the x800xtpe at times), and no nVidia.
when talking to a sales rep, I'm told that all the cards are selling faster then they can come in.
just 3 weeks ago CompUSA had the x800xtpe by me...$500.00
only 3 cards, now gone in under a few days.

I think, ATI had no idea how many peeps want thier new cards.
with AGP almost dead, I'm suprised myself.

mica
 
The differences between the R423 and the R430 are clearer cut. The R430 is fabbed on the 110nm process rather than the 130nm low-k process. ATI isn't able to push the R430 chips at clock speeds that rival the R480, but this matches well with cooler running, lower clocked 16 and 12 pixel pipe solutions (which is exactly what ATI is offering with R430 based cards).

Well, that article says they are cooler running, i dont see why an ATI silencer can make an x800xl get up to 95% x850xtpe speed with a little luck... a volt mod might do the trick but i wouldnt try that, im not that hardcore...

for me 95% performance of the top dog for $150 less is pretty good.

i guess the battle now shouldnt be 6800gt vs x800pro but 6800gt vs x800xl both having 16 pipes... and ive already made my choice...

my perfect system is sprouting, i only need a good mobo which might take like 3 months :(
 
PhobMX said:
Well, that article says they are cooler running, i dont see why an ATI silencer can make an x800xl get up to 95% x850xtpe speed with a little luck... a volt mod might do the trick but i wouldnt try that, im not that hardcore...

for me 95% performance of the top dog for $150 less is pretty good.

i guess the battle now shouldnt be 6800gt vs x800pro but 6800gt vs x800xl both having 16 pipes... and ive already made my choice...

my perfect system is sprouting, i only need a good mobo which might take like 3 months :(

Sprouting? :p

sprouting.jpg


Username: User
Password: password

Hey, is there any way I can put the username and the password in the link so you guy's don't have to type it in manually????
 
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nivida fanboy ever science my old radion 9800 had the signs in hrizon's and everyone's face in swg appear in the lower left had corner of the screen in about a 1 and 1/2 sq in box- i couldent fix it
 
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