Sentential said:
As I said before.....OpenGL and DirectX are completely different engines. nVidia is FAR faster in OpenGL games like Doom, and KOTR, and Neverwinternights. ATi is faster in DirectX, its as simple as that
...try 6 months ago. My 9800PRO had all sorts of stability problems playing games like America's Army, Call of Duty, and Farcry. All went away once I got my 6800GT
Its really your call. ATi and nV both have their stregnths and weaknesses. Example:
-nV-
(Pros)
*Better chip yeild
90% of all GTs go past Ultra clocks without mods. 60% of All NUs flash to GT and can obtain those speeds on occasion. I dont see *any* x800PROs besides the VIVOs (which are more than the GTs anyway) that can successfully flash to XT and stay that way witout dying. And with 16 pipes they overclock like ****.
Example:
Vrykryl
Batboy
*Best drivers on the planet
More a personal preference but from my experince with ATi thus far, I stand by this.
*Most stable / free of graphical glitches
meaning game conflicts. They may have IQ issues but never stability issues (to my knowledge). Ie you never see nV releasing drivers to fix "game stability" like ATi does.
*"TWIMTBP" "The Way its meant to be played" (game company agreements that optimized for nV hardware)yet in many cases, ATI cards beat the NV cards in TWIMTBP games...including UT2004
(Cons)
*High power draw
*High heat
*IQ is inferior to ATI unless modified with drivers
they fixed the shimmering issue with the "null LOD BIAS" fix
* IQ issues with shadows (also fixable)
Ideed, I meant stability / OS issues, not visual ones
ATi
(Pros)
*Best IQ...hands down
*Blistering fast even with high levels of AA / AINSO
*Temporal Anti-alaising (doubles AA with no peformance loss, *ie removes jaggies)
*Low power and heat
*Extrodinarly fast in DirectX
(Cons)
*Poor driver stability
. Yes thats what Im saying. ATi drivers from my expericne are buggy as hell.
*Extremely bad yeilds and poor overclockers (especially bad on RAM)
batboy's x800XT coudlnt even do PE speeds
*More Expensive
GameVE and newegg have the prices of GTs significantally lower than the x800PROs. I have yet to see 5 PROs that cost under $380. Ive seen almost a dozen GTs taht do
*Horrible OpenGL support (1/2 as fast as nV in games like Quake4 and Doom3 and KOTR2)
I am refering to purely stock without *any* mods. Under these conditions the 6800NU was beating the x800XT, especially with AA / AINSO applied.
*Poor stock cooling
Look at how wimpy their cooling is! ATi has *never* been know for their excelent stock cooling solutions. Come on lol . The only decent HSF ive seen ATi put out is the one they have on the x850XT, and it needs it
I really sorry for my late reply...busy at home.
I'm really sorry to hear that you had problems with your 9800pro card and a few games, including Farcry.
yet, I can show quite a few people who had or are having bug problems with the 5900's and now the 6800 cards.
infact you've even showed us pics of farcry that had IQ problems with your 6800gt...
so as far as Farcry is concerned, we can ether agree that Farcry with any patch is buggy or we can say that nVidia drivers are not a good as your saying.
*Best drivers on the planet More a personal preference but from my experince with ATi thus far, I stand by this.
I'm really glad you like them (the drivers), but the best on the planet?
after all the testing I've just done on the 6800gt, I would give high marks to nVidia...but not bug free, or the best in the planet.
I've noticed bugs from farcry, HL2, NFSU, with the 6800gt...
4 drivers tested, the latest is 67.02.
bug free? I don't think so.
*Extremely bad yeilds and poor overclockers (especially bad on RAM) batboy's x800XT coudlnt even do PE speeds
that's one persons card results....sorry to hear my old friend had some bad luck.
yet Vrykryl, was able to reach x800xtpe speeds with his card...why is that a bad thing to you?
and with this being a x800pro vs a 6800gt thread...
look here at the results of x800pro users.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=305700
not too shabby with all them results.
*More Expensive GameVE and newegg have the prices of GTs significantally lower than the x800PROs. I have yet to see 5 PROs that cost under $380. Ive seen almost a dozen GTs taht do
you just listed a cheaper x800pro card from newegg....
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-142-027&depa=0
x800pro=389.00 6800gt=392.00
what was your point again?
really, shop around, you'll get a cheap price for whatever your looking for.
they are both great cards.
*Horrible OpenGL support (1/2 as fast as nV in games like Quake4 and Doom3 and KOTR2) I am refering to purely stock without *any* mods. Under these conditions the 6800NU was beating the x800XT, especially with AA / AINSO applied.
using stock cards, best possable playing resolutions/settings, and [H]'s Doom3 hardware guide, I picked a rig that is fast yet within reach of some of us....
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQ0LDE2
A64 3500+, Abit AV8, 1gb corsair PC3200
framerates are min/max/avg...
BFG's slightly OCed 6800nu...1280x1024 8xAF
33/60/57
x800pro...1280x1024 8xAF
24/60/51.7
differance between a 6800nu slightly OCed...18%/0%/10%
x800xtpe....1600x1200 8xAF
25/60/53.5
differance between the slightly OCed 6800nu...why should I bother?
your claims of 100% performance differances in OpenGL are unfounded.
*Poor stock cooling
Look at how wimpy their cooling is! ATi has *never* been know for their excelent stock cooling solutions. Come on lol . The only decent HSF ive seen ATi put out is the one they have on the x850XT, and it needs it
when the ATI cards have heatsinks that do thier job, and help give temps that are cooler then the nVidia cards...your reaching for something that is unreachable.
*IQ is inferior to ATI unless modified with drivers they fixed the shimmering issue with the "null LOD BIAS" fix
starting with the 67.02/67.03 drivers, yes that "clamp" works nice, but fixed?
I'd say that now the shimmering issue is now 80%-90% gone, yet now the textures past that shimmer point is now "soft" or unsharp.
when your using 8x or 16x AF, that is not what some might want.
solving one problem, by adding another, is not what I'd call a fix.
I will say it might look better then what you can get with rivatuner.
it was just, OK, in my UT2004 testing....I can live with it, but I can't speak for everyone.
I'm not trying to fight here, infact I think that both cards are great.
you also make some great points.
yet I still can't find a buisness report or a ATI statement that states that they are having yeild problems.
in my local bestbuy you can find nVidia cards in one week, with no ATI cards...
the next week, I find ATI cards (even the x800xtpe at times), and no nVidia.
when talking to a sales rep, I'm told that all the cards are selling faster then they can come in.
just 3 weeks ago CompUSA had the x800xtpe by me...$500.00
only 3 cards, now gone in under a few days.
I think, ATI had no idea how many peeps want thier new cards.
with AGP almost dead, I'm suprised myself.
mica