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Torn Between A64 and XP-M

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Richard said:
Once we get into the range of moderate-to-highly overclocked XP-Ms, Pentium 4s, and Athlon 64s; we're talking about fast CPUs. In everyday use none of the aforementioned processors are being "pushed." The majority of common tasks are not CPU limited. Things like, browsing the web, listening to music, watching videos, are hardly putting a stress on the CPU and RAM.

Most people are not encoding media for a living. A few seconds here or there is not going to make or break them. And I keep seeing, "AMD 64 is for gamers. P4 or Athlon XP (fill in deragatory statement.)" The truth of the matter is far more emphasis should be placed on the video card. Who plays games at CPU limited resolutions with no anti-aliasing or anisotropic filtering? That's a tremendous waste of funds. (Having a high-end system and not making use of features that make games more appealing.) The reality is that when a person is actually gaming and not benchmarking, he or she will notice little difference between an Athlon XP-M, P4, and an Athlon 64. Assuming the video card is the same.

Buy what you can afford. If you can afford an AMD64, by all means, purchase one. If you can't, you won't be miserable with an Athlon XP-M. It's not that bad of a compromise. Honestly.

A PC is the sum of its parts. Don't put too much emphasis on individual components - unless you have a very specific reason for doing so. Distributing your budget equitably amongst the entire system will yield better bang for the buck.
I tend to agree with you. like how much gaming performance will i actually gain ! ... benchmarks will go up, BUT .. I already score just under 13,000 in 3DMark03, sooo .... hmmm, tough call
 
i am just finalizing a build with a 2600+ mobile and yes, i did too also toss around the idea of stepping up to a S939 agp system, but i saw some cpu based HL2 benches which changed my mind(sorry, forgot where) they showed that even super high end cpus (fx55,EE) are only an average of 10 fps faster with similer vid cards and high resolutions. the barton NEVER was to blame for unplayable frame rate. they used a barton @ 200*12(2.4)for comparison and when i considered that chances were i would get 2.5 or 2.6 and certainly higher fsb out of mine, the decision was made. and hey, who doesent like the idea of their cheapie system putting up a pretty decent fight against much more expensive systems.

*edit, sorry i got my wires crossed with a couple of reviews, but you can see here that the 3200+ still holds its own
 
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tomchong said:
i am just finalizing a build with a 2600+ mobile and yes, i did too also toss around the idea of stepping up to a S939 agp system, but i saw some cpu based HL2 benches which changed my mind(sorry, forgot where) they showed that even super high end cpus (fx55,EE) are only an average of 10 fps faster with similer vid cards and high resolutions. the barton NEVER was to blame for unplayable frame rate. they used a barton @ 200*12(2.4)for comparison and when i considered that chances were i would get 2.5 or 2.6 and certainly higher fsb out of mine, the decision was made. and hey, who doesent like the idea of their cheapie system putting up a pretty decent fight against much more expensive systems.

*edit, sorry i got my wires crossed with a couple of reviews, but you can see here that the 3200+ still holds its own
good point and review. i dont need more fps in HL2. i already get 70-200+. howeverif i could have a garentee i would get 10 more fps in FarCry ;) i would go for a A64 sys. hate when FC dips into the 20's in certain spots. kinda frustrating, ruins the game in my opinion ...
 
Burnt_Ram said:
good point and review. i dont need more fps in HL2. i already get 70-200+. howeverif i could have a garentee i would get 10 more fps in FarCry ;) i would go for a A64 sys. hate when FC dips into the 20's in certain spots. kinda frustrating, ruins the game in my opinion ...
Well then it basically comes down to "how much is 10-15fps worth to you??" :-/
$50?
$100?
$500?


Yeah....................
You're probably fine with your system for a while, or atleast untill you can afford A64 and PCI-Express.

If you are troubled by low fps in FC, then you could just try turning down the AA or AF a little bit and see how that plays out. I know its not ideal and you probably already thought of that, but I had to throw it out there anyway.
 
Guess what? I'm Canadian too and had the exact same question roughly two weeks ago.
My XP just wasn't cutting it with it's overclock so I wanted to sell the board and CPU and dish out another 150 to get either a Mobile or a A64 solution.

Just like you, after constant debate (and forums) I decided to go with the A64 solution.
An A64 clocked at 2.2 is roughly the same performance (if not better ) than an XP-M at 2.7. Most XP users don't usually find that speed stable anyways so an A64 which usually overclocks to a 2.4 to a possibly 2.8 would just prove to be icing on the cake (and indeed performance now with my system proves that).

Then there was the question of going the newer 939 or the 754. The difference between the two wasn't much in regards to price so it led to two issues:

1) upgradability- future poofness
2) a good motherboard.

As for the first issue most us overclockers want to upgarde our specs within 2 years so going to either solution of A64 wouldn't make a difference.

As for the motherboards the 754 socket DFI lanparty is an increibly good board compared to the entry level 939 boards you would get with the same price, so obviously it woudl make sense to go for the former type of socket.
Why settle for anything third grade when you can get top of the line of the previous (but not outdated) generation of technology.

Anyways here are some excellent retail/online stores you can consult:
www.canadacomputers.com
www.megacomputer.ca

Both Canadian ofcourse ;)
 
Remember both DDR2 and PCI-express and nforce4 are new top of the line products, not accessible to most people yet nor are they VALUE priced as most of us want them to be. Also host to bugs and inflated prices thanks to their considerable demand (yes yes there are competitve little introverts out there that judge their self-esteem by top of the line hardware they carry in their shacky rooms).

The time span it'll take for the 939 boards (including Dual SLI) is roughly a year (if you've been observing), and that's just enough time to settle with a 754. IF you really really really want to get onto the bandwagon with a Dual SLI solution and you ahve the $$ to spend (which most of you don't) then go ahead and max yourself out.

Otherwise why in the world would you want to waste your money like that.
If you look at graphic card performance for example, most cards get a HUGE boost of performance by simply upgrading the processor to a 4000+ or FX-55. For us it means nice overclocks doing their best (wink) at the same level of performance (hey that is what overclockign is about right?). So really their isn't a huge need for DUAL SLI yet, especially since the 6800 Ultra's AGP versions are available for a mere $600 CND off of ebay (cheap compared to a few months ago).

Contrary to what some of you think the AGP solutions are far from being dead. For that to happen there first needs to be a stoppage of AGP product production (hasn't happened) and a saturation of the consumer market of PCI-E boards (leaving no demand for the AGPs).

Ofcourse going for the PCI-Express motherboard (whatever socket) also means paying an exorborent price premium on "new technology" products. Try finding the 6800GT PCI-E for a mere $450 Canadian people! A good reason to stick with AGP people.

More food for thought.
 
Sorry for the multiple posts, but I know if I made it into a long one people just wont' even read it.

Personally I noticed a HUGe difference in Gaming.
Farcry was finally FUN to play (yes 10-15 fps does make a huge difference amidst the chaos), and ofcourse DOOM III runs like butter in areas the XP would slow down.

Need I mention any other game?
 
baberpervez said:
Sorry for the multiple posts, but I know if I made it into a long one people just wont' even read it.

Personally I noticed a HUGe difference in Gaming.
Farcry was finally FUN to play (yes 10-15 fps does make a huge difference amidst the chaos), and ofcourse DOOM III runs like butter in areas the XP would slow down.

Need I mention any other game?
you got the extra 10-15 fps in FarCry ? what where your sys specs before the A64 ?
 
Let's try to clear up a few things here and hopefully help some of you folks out. I recently did an upgrade from a Mobile @ 2.6Ghz to an [email protected] and then a A64 3400 (socket 754) which is running lightly OC'd at 2.5Ghz. All the rigs were tested with Corsair XMS ram running 5-2-2-2 T1 and a 6800Gt @ Ultra clocks, harddrive used was a 74gig SATA Raptor. This setup includes the Mobile as I bought those parts during upgrades over the last year.

Anyway the p4 build was done mostly out of curiousity and came about due to a couple of coincidental things coming together. Lets clear this one up right now. Forget stock P4's if you do any gaming at all, overclocked above 4Ghz they are good, stock the 3.4Ghz was hammered by my Mobile rig in back to back tests done by yours truely, I will brook no argument about it.

After the P4 was broken up and sold off I decided to spend some cash on an A64 rig and after doing a lot of reading decided the 939 was not worth the extra cash over a 754 for the minimal boost it gives. As PR ratings have grown the gap between highend 939 and 754 is widening slowly but it's still not as great as you would think with all of the benchmark junkies ranting and raving that goes on around here. Honestly I doubt anyone could sit at a 939 and 754 side by side and tell any difference at the same clock speeds.

Not to wander to far off topic, comparisons between my Mobile @ 2.6 and my overclocked A64 3400. You will notice a bit smoother game play at higher resolutions due to the memory bandwith and cache latency advantages the A64 enjoy's over XP systems. Dont misunderstand me though, the difference it not that great. In some games you will be able to play at a higher resolution but the differences are not extreme and if your not a hardcore gamer (someone who currently has HL2, DOOM3, NFSU2, Rome TW, WOW, and BFME sitting on thier desk is hardcore....someone with only 1 or 2 titles is not) your money would be better spent on a high end video card than building a new rig built around a slower A64.

Lastly I generaly follow a simple rule around upgrades, when the PR rating doubles it's time to move on. Since the PR rating of a Mobile at 2.6 falls somewhere around 3800-4000 I would say you will see only minor noticable improvements in speed if any by moving to a low end A64 rig. I made the move because I had money in hand and was curious, given the choice today I would have waited for NF4 and SLi boards before upgrading from the Mobile @ 2.6.
 
Dragonprince said:
Let's try to clear up a few things here and hopefully help some of you folks out. I recently did an upgrade from a Mobile @ 2.6Ghz to an [email protected] and then a A64 3400 (socket 754) which is running lightly OC'd at 2.5Ghz. All the rigs were tested with Corsair XMS ram running 5-2-2-2 T1 and a 6800Gt @ Ultra clocks, harddrive used was a 74gig SATA Raptor. This setup includes the Mobile as I bought those parts during upgrades over the last year.

Anyway the p4 build was done mostly out of curiousity and came about due to a couple of coincidental things coming together. Lets clear this one up right now. Forget stock P4's if you do any gaming at all, overclocked above 4Ghz they are good, stock the 3.4Ghz was hammered by my Mobile rig in back to back tests done by yours truely, I will brook no argument about it.

After the P4 was broken up and sold off I decided to spend some cash on an A64 rig and after doing a lot of reading decided the 939 was not worth the extra cash over a 754 for the minimal boost it gives. As PR ratings have grown the gap between highend 939 and 754 is widening slowly but it's still not as great as you would think with all of the benchmark junkies ranting and raving that goes on around here. Honestly I doubt anyone could sit at a 939 and 754 side by side and tell any difference at the same clock speeds.

Not to wander to far off topic, comparisons between my Mobile @ 2.6 and my overclocked A64 3400. You will notice a bit smoother game play at higher resolutions due to the memory bandwith and cache latency advantages the A64 enjoy's over XP systems. Dont misunderstand me though, the difference it not that great. In some games you will be able to play at a higher resolution but the differences are not extreme and if your not a hardcore gamer (someone who currently has HL2, DOOM3, NFSU2, Rome TW, WOW, and BFME sitting on thier desk is hardcore....someone with only 1 or 2 titles is not) your money would be better spent on a high end video card than building a new rig built around a slower A64.

Lastly I generaly follow a simple rule around upgrades, when the PR rating doubles it's time to move on. Since the PR rating of a Mobile at 2.6 falls somewhere around 3800-4000 I would say you will see only minor noticable improvements in speed if any by moving to a low end A64 rig. I made the move because I had money in hand and was curious, given the choice today I would have waited for NF4 and SLi boards before upgrading from the Mobile @ 2.6.
thanks for that.. i'm wondering AGAIN ! if i should go for a Neo 2 and a A64 3200+ now. i'm looking at around 475.00 cdn to do so. damn my head hurts
 
I would say no. Wait until summer 05 for NF4 boards to mature, by then you might actually see a difference during gaming.
 
maybe jus get xpm and stick with it till its really slow compared to others,
they are out for quite a few years and are still pretty gd, unless u compared it with the top end machines of a64 at 2.4ghz

i'm still using xpm @ 2.5ghz with a 9700np and planning to go smp with xpm soon
 
I am using a 2.5GHz Mobile XP right now and am enjoying it very much... but I have built my friend a 2.2GHz AMD64 system with the same video card that I am running (6800GT 256MB) and have noticed the performance difference. In NFS:UG2 I can play 1024x768 w/4xFSAA with no problems, but as soon as I raise it to 1280x1024 w/4xFSAA it slows down to a halt. Not on the AMD64 system though, runs like a dream. It's up to you. AMD64 is a gaming powerhouse, but the XP Mobile is fast enough for most things.
 
Richard said:
Once we get into the range of moderate-to-highly overclocked XP-Ms, Pentium 4s, and Athlon 64s; we're talking about fast CPUs. In everyday use none of the aforementioned processors are being "pushed." The majority of common tasks are not CPU limited. Things like, browsing the web, listening to music, watching videos, are hardly putting a stress on the CPU and RAM.

Most people are not encoding media for a living. A few seconds here or there is not going to make or break them. And I keep seeing, "AMD 64 is for gamers. P4 or Athlon XP (fill in deragatory statement.)" The truth of the matter is far more emphasis should be placed on the video card. Who plays games at CPU limited resolutions with no anti-aliasing or anisotropic filtering? That's a tremendous waste of funds. (Having a high-end system and not making use of features that make games more appealing.) The reality is that when a person is actually gaming and not benchmarking, he or she will notice little difference between an Athlon XP-M, P4, and an Athlon 64. Assuming the video card is the same.

Buy what you can afford. If you can afford an AMD64, by all means, purchase one. If you can't, you won't be miserable with an Athlon XP-M. It's not that bad of a compromise. Honestly.

A PC is the sum of its parts. Don't put too much emphasis on individual components - unless you have a very specific reason for doing so. Distributing your budget equitably amongst the entire system will yield better bang for the buck.

Great post man. :cool:

Totally agree, especially the gaming part. You'll notice a lot more difference, and have a much better experience, with say a X800/6800 and a highly overclocked XP-M, than a FX-55 and a 9800Pro for example.

Sure a A64 is nice, but it's not the be all and end all. Id stick with your XP-M at the moment.

I upgraded to the rig in my sig from a 2.2ghz Barton, which is better than what your thinking of getting, and your XP is 300mhz faster.

I wouldn't bother, like i said. Id wait for Nforce 4 to mature, and the New strained Silicon or whatever Winchestors. You could then build a rig around this with a 6800Ultra or somet, and add another later if you wanted. :cool:

I can notice a difference, especially in Far Cry, and gaming is a little smoother, but then again i have a high end card, which was another factor in getting the A64.
 
i only run @ 1024x768. so i guess i will stick with my Mobiles for now .. ive been trying to justify this purchase for days, BUT can't lol. i really want to play with a A64 tho. they appear to be alot more complicated in the OC process. not just a matter of ramping up up your multi and ram ...
 
Get a new monitor instead.

I love my NEC 19" to bits, one of my best ever buys.

If you buy a quality monitor, it will last you longer, than any hardware will usually, and afterall it's what you look at, not the case. :thup:
 
Burnt_Ram said:
they appear to be alot more complicated in the OC process. not just a matter of ramping up up your multi and ram ...

Not really. The only difference is remembering to set the HTT divider to keep it in line with what the chipset can handle. It's really quite simple and as easy to handle as OCing the P4 or XP's once you understand it. Just a couple more things to keep track of but it doesnt really qualify as "complicated".
 
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