Alienware

gustav said:

well would you want to build your own car and know every part thats under the hood? i dont think so. to some people computers are as complicated as cars. they just dont want to deal with the problems. like said above, they just want to press the power button and have it work. dont tell me you dont know people like this because most people are this way. why do you think dell is so popular? they dont provide the elusive rigs that alienware provides, but they provide a machine that works (most of the time) without any trouble. the common person doesnt want to take the time to learn how to build a rig and deal with the problems that arrise.

while this is opinion, its not a very good point. there are car enthusiests who want fast, souped up, tricked out car but dont want to do the work themselves, there are shops that will build them their dream car, but again for a price. a high performance computer is the same way. some people want it but dont want to deal with building it. so places like alienware step in and do it for them for a price. is it overpriced? depends on who you are. to us, who do the work ourselves and can save the money yes it is overpriced. to someone who wants it and is willing to pay for it, no it may not be overpriced to them.

why arent they going out of business? because there is a market. like customizing cars for celebrities or company CEO's, there is a market of people who have the money to pay for it, but dont have the time or patience to learn how to do it.

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I agree there is a market for these systems, I also think that the "exclusivity" issue you mentioned enters into the equation. Seriously, you can outfit a Falcon NW system that'll run you 10G's, that's ludicrous for a gaming system. Yes, some people just want to open the box, plug it in, and start "computing", but how these guys suck people into paying so much for a system leads me to this conclusion: "exclusivity" and "bragging rights", nothing else.

Yes, top of the line systems, of that there's no doubt, but they are not worth what's being charged for them. This works everywhere in the sales and marketing of products, here in Canada I can buy a pair of Levi's jeans at WalMart for $30. The exact same pair of Levi's jeans at Sear's is $80. Okay, I save $50 buying them at WalMart, but I don't have the "exclusivity" of carrying them home in a Sear's bag, I have to "ghetto" them home in a WalMart bag.

I figure any gamer that buys one of these systems has too much money too spend, they're loaded, and want an Alienware or Falcon NW system as a status symbol to show to their rich friends. Just my opinion, and we all know that opinions are like *ssholes, everybody has one.

yeah thats part of it. i think people want something to show off.

i remember a discussion about this a while back. everyone was saying they're overpriced, we could do it for hundreds less. yes thats true but we're not trying to make a profit off of it. remember this is a business. they're trying to make money. they have employees to pay and bills to pay, and try to make a profit while paying those. if dell offered the same exact system im sure it would be ridiculously priced.

As long as there is someone willing to pay that kind of money for a system, they will sell them. I work with British dude who I've seen pay $3.29 for "cup-a-soup" that's imported from England, at a specialty "English Food" store. He calls them "potted noodles". I pointed out to him that Lipton's cup-a-soup, the same tomato soup with french onions and croutons, is only $1.49 for 4 packs. He gets "pork pies" made at another English store, slightly larger than a typical one serving frozen meat pie, for $6 a pop. I just can't justify paying that kind of money for a cup of soup, or a meat pie.

Then again, I don't have money to burn, if I did, I wouldn't have to justify to myself buying stuff without checking the price tag first. Supply and demand, if the demand is there, someone is sure to supply it. All the more power to them if the get rich, off the backs of other rich people, damn cannibals!

As far as "laziness" is concerned, I kind of take offense to the notion of it.

Suppose this, people who are buying Alienware can afford it, otherwise they wouldn't buy it. Suppose you have professionals in the market (accountants, lawyers, doctors, etc) and they have the option to either 1) build their own computer, or 2) purchase an Alienware. Now, these are smart individuals, you don't get into a professional industry (of any nature) without have at least a shred of intelligence. In my opinion, as long as you put in a bit of time you can figure out the intricasies of building your own computer. Let's face it, it's not that hard -- given you do your due dilligence.

Now, let's look at what goes into building your own computer. First, you actually have to do your research and learn how to build it. This is something that, for us, is easy to overlook because we've already done it. If we want to build a computer and have the funds we simply pick all the parts, order them, and put it together. Presto, instant gaming rig. However, let's look at the fact that we had to start somewhere. How long would you say that it took you to get to the point of knowing enough about computer to actually build it? Now add in the time of the actual build (remember your first one doesn't get put together in 2 hours, it takes a bit of time to wade through the Mobo manual and hook all the pins up in their right place, and hook up the PSU to everything properly, and then to debug any errors that you find after powering it up). Now, assuming that everything goes fine the first time you power it up, everything is connected where it should be and working perfectly, how much time have you spent through the whole process? Let me break it down a little...

Learning: 10 hours (that's being REALLY generous!)
Building: 3 hours (again, generous)

So, let's say you've spent 13 hours on this puppy. Now, let's say you spent $1500 on the parts, and with that amount you have built something that can compare to a $2500-$3000 Alienware (I know this, as I just did the same thing, my doctor friend purchased the Alienware while I built my own).

So what have your personal costs been? 13 hours and $1500. Let's look at what some of these professionals charge and make on an hourly basis...

Accountants, let's dumb it down and say they bill around $200 (I'm an accountang, and going to law school in about a year, work with me people).

Lawyers, let's say they bill around $400 (obviously law, and accounting for that matter, is a widely varying field. You can see little billings around $200 and less, while tort lawyers, after receiving contingency fees, have computed their billing to be upwards of $200,000/hour -- no I didn't make this up, if you're curious go to www.law.com and do some research on the fees generated by some of the law firms who filed suits against the tobacco industry on behalf of various states in the U.S.).

Now, with our Accountant at $200, and Lawyer at $400 let's do some analysis.

Accountant: 13 hours of time billed instead of spent learning: $3600
Lawyers: 13 hours of time billed instead of spent learning: $7200

So.. are they better off building their own computer and saving a few bucks? Or just ordering a prebuilt system that includes software and warranties, and spending the same amount of time working?

Disclaimer: I know this is riddled with assumptions, but I get a bit offended when I hear people gripe about those who purchase instead of build. They do it for a reason, and it doesn't just mean that they're lazy or don't want to put time into learning about computers. It could actually mean that they are financially better off having ordered a system instead of learning how to build one, and then building it. In fact, if you use those computations, building their own system would have cost 1) Accountant: $5100, and Lawyer: $8700, now that's one hell of an expensive computer if you ask me. Sure there is a bit of a joy and value that we place on it that can't be attributed to money - but let's face it, not everyone gets the same joy out of it. My doctor friend wanted an Alienware because he likes playing games with the few hours a week when he's not working or sleeping (when you work 36 hour shifts -- THAT'S NOT AN EXAGERATION! -- you have about enough downtime between shifts to get in 8 hours of sleep and a couple hours of gaming before heading back), he has neither the time nor care to build his own (now, had he consulted with me before ordering it, I would have saved him a lot of money by doing it myself, but sans this opportunity most people would just order it).

I hope I haven't offended anyone, I just needed to go on a rant and point out something that it seems many people have neglected to take note of. Howabout we give those ordering Alienwares, and any other brand, the benefit of the doubt before saying that they don't know what they're doing. If they can afford these high priced systems they're obviously doing something right!

I dont have any problem at all with someone buying a prebuilt system.

but just cause you can't build your own, doesnt mean you should go buy from the likes of Alienware of Falcon. I can't stress this enough, THERE ARE OTHER OEMS OUT THERRE THAT HAVE REASONABLE PRICES!

The "performance enhancements and tuning" that alienware totes are just gimmicks, and thep arts they use, aside from their case is the same stuff you can get from anyone else. If you're gonna drop thousands of dollars, the least you can do is at least check into the possibility of finding a good price. There is no reason to buy from alienware plain and simple.

YoMatta said:

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As for the laziness i was referring too, that wasnt meant as a pure blamage, more like a term to discribe the behaviour.

I can agree with part of what you say. But i have a question: When you build your own pc, do you ask free time from your boss to so it? I hope not, cause thats what free time is for. The lawyer doesnt lose 7200 while building his system. If he is really making 400$ an hour then i bet he has plenty of free time.

Why doesn't he do it then? because he knows little about it. Because he is 'afraid' he might break something in the process. Or even worse, it hasn't yet come to his mind that he could build his own, that a PC isn't like a VCR, that a PC is a sum of it's parts and not just a single 'good' or 'bad' system. Heck, why do we call it a computersystem, because its multiple interchangeable parts working together.

Either he doesn't want to, doesn't know or doesn't care, he feels no need to spend the time to customize a pc to his needs, and thats exactly what he pays for. Hasn't that become the spirit of our civilisation over thepast hundred years? Because alot of things take time, effort and a little interest, we just have them done by someone else, or not at all.

It's the same reason why there are pre-modded case. Because alot of people don't want to / cannot / will not spend the time and effort themselves.

**EDIT**

Looks like Sjaak beat me to it.

YoMatta said:

As far as "laziness" is concerned, I kind of take offense to the notion of it.

So, let's say you've spent 13 hours on this puppy. Now, let's say you spent $1500 on the parts, and with that amount you have built something that can compare to a $2500-$3000 Alienware (I know this, as I just did the same thing, my doctor friend purchased the Alienware while I built my own).

So what have your personal costs been? 13 hours and $1500. Let's look at what some of these professionals charge and make on an hourly basis...

Accountants, let's dumb it down and say they bill around $200 (I'm an accountang, and going to law school in about a year, work with me people).

Lawyers, let's say they bill around $400 (obviously law, and accounting for that matter, is a widely varying field. You can see little billings around $200 and less, while tort lawyers, after receiving contingency fees, have computed their billing to be upwards of $200,000/hour -- no I didn't make this up, if you're curious go to www.law.com and do some research on the fees generated by some of the law firms who filed suits against the tobacco industry on behalf of various states in the U.S.).

Now, with our Accountant at $200, and Lawyer at $400 let's do some analysis.

Accountant: 13 hours of time billed instead of spent learning: $3600
Lawyers: 13 hours of time billed instead of spent learning: $7200

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Okay, that's all fine, but you're charging rates that techies don't. Techies that build computers don't get $200 to $400 an hour. Trust me, without having a clue as to what Alienware/Falcon NW techies are getting, I'll guarantee it's not $200 an hour to build a computer, if it's one tenth of that, I'll be amazed. Probably more like $12 to $15 an hour for assembly.

So, how does that justify the outrageous prices that are charged for these systems? I built my system in my spare time, I didn't charge myself $20/hr, nor did I lose $20/hr building it, it's my spare time, it's not my job. A lawyer doesn't lose $400/hr when he's playing golf, and although golf isn't exactly close to being physically intense, it's harder than sitting at a workbench/table and putting a system together. No lawyer would lose $400/hr building a system, if they did it in their spare time, they'd save a bunch of cash. Then again, they don't need to save cash. :


You can't put an hourly wage on leisure time/time off work, if you do, it's no longer leisure time, it's work time, and you're doing the work for someone else. I don't gripe about it, I just have the opinion that the systems are overated, when you look at bang for the buck, and they're nothing more than a status symbol for the rich folk.

yes but what he's saying is the lawyer doesnt have a 13 hour chunk of time to be doing this. he said its common to have a 36 hour shift, and enough time for 8 hours of sleep plus a few hours of gaming before they have to go back to work. those few hours are their actuall free time. its much more convienyent for a person in this profession to just buy a prebuilt. instead of spending a week of his/her free time researching it and learning about it, and instead of spending a hours building it, then troubleshooting it, its much easier and trouble free to order one from say alienware. and not all people use their free time for themselves, I bet a lot of lawyers or people in this profession spend some of their free time researching and finding more about a case or learning about something to do with their job. they may not get paid for it, but it will help them with their job.

Gustav said:

its much more convienyent for a person in this profession to just buy a prebuilt. instead of spending a week of his/her free time researching it and learning about it, and instead of spending a hours building it, then troubleshooting it, its much easier and trouble free to order one from say alienware.

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THAT is exactly the laziness i was talking about.

Jeez guys, there's nothing wrong with people wanting to buy from Alienware.

Some people don't want to build their own PCs. They don't care about knowing what's inside of it any more than they care what's inside there washing machines.

Some people like to buy from high profile companies like Alienware and Falcon NW because these companies have reputations to uphold, and they are not as likely to shutdown as is the local mom + pop builder down the street. Plus, they look really cool, and aesthetics can be just as important to people as performance. Why do you think people buy coffee at Starbucks? Nastiest coffee on the planet.

It's just like cars. People don't want to build their own cars (you could), and also people don't want to simply buy the cheapest car out there. That's why companies like Mercedes, Lexus, Rolls-Royce, etc. are able to sell their cars. There's no question that a $12,000 Kia will get you to the country club just as effectively as an $80,000 Mercedes, but some people would rather go in style. If they have the money, more power to them.

Thats not lazyness, at least in my book. Its convienyent for them because the time it takes away their free time, which is often used for benifiting their job, away from them. They don't have the need or the want to learn how to do it. Since they usually make more than enough money, they can afford these kinds of systems. To you or me who isn't in this situation it may seem preposterous to spend so much on a rig when we could do it ourselfs for far less, but like it has been said before, there is a market for these things and as long as there is they will be in business. For whoever buys one, its their money, they've earned it and they have the right to spend it however they like.

and then theres the fact that you can walk into a computer store and ask them to build it for you when you buy the parts. they may charge you something, but if your buying the sort of parts that go into a high end system theres a fair chance they woud waive the fee in order to keep you as a customer.

even if it costs $50 to have them put the system together iyou still save money on the system compared to buying alienware.

besides if i wanted the "status symbol" of owning alienware i'd just find a secondhand alienware case. who's going to know the difference?

As i said, i do not want to blame them for buying that way, i was just trying to find a word to discribe the behaviour.

I have the same laziness when it comes to other stuff. Food for example. If my mom would send me out to do some shopping, i would certainly bring alot of overpriced, unneccesary things with me. Why? because i dont go shopping often. Because its not my part of interest, because to me, food is stuff to eat and not much more.

even though you think you are getting perfrmance out of an alienware computer, you really arent. i know you say that you can get the same parts for thousands less, but you have to build it yourself and most people dont want to go through that hassel. however, what about dell pcs? their xps has comparable parts to those of an alienware while being priced thousands less. my only gripe is not with just people buying alienware, but that alienware charges way too much for its components. i understand that to some people computers are really as confusing as cars, but there are obviously more choices out there. just because alienware has made a name for themselves as high performance pcs doesnt mean they're the best. it just goes to show what a long way some flashy advertising does.

it just goes to show what a long way some flashy advertising does.

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That's 100% true.

Case in point: Starbucks.

Another big case in point: Harley-Davidson.

Just to add my oppinion to this. We don't expect high end car enthusiasts to build thier own Ferrai, or Bently, etc. Why would we expect enthusiasts to build their own rig. It is us hobbiests that build machines. We are the techies, gear heads, etc. we are the ones who are not afraid to get dirty and build from the ground up.

Read this:

gustav said:

well would you want to build your own car and know every part thats under the hood? i dont think so. to some people computers are as complicated as cars. they just dont want to deal with the problems. like said above, they just want to press the power button and have it work. dont tell me you dont know people like this because most people are this way. why do you think dell is so popular? they dont provide the elusive rigs that alienware provides, but they provide a machine that works (most of the time) without any trouble. the common person doesnt want to take the time to learn how to build a rig and deal with the problems that arrise.

while this is opinion, its not a very good point. there are car enthusiests who want fast, souped up, tricked out car but dont want to do the work themselves, there are shops that will build them their dream car, but again for a price. a high performance computer is the same way. some people want it but dont want to deal with building it. so places like alienware step in and do it for them for a price. is it overpriced? depends on who you are. to us, who do the work ourselves and can save the money yes it is overpriced. to someone who wants it and is willing to pay for it, no it may not be overpriced to them.

why arent they going out of business? because there is a market. like customizing cars for celebrities or company CEO's, there is a market of people who have the money to pay for it, but dont have the time or patience to learn how to do it.

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K...Read this:

don256us said:

Just to add my oppinion to this. We don't expect high end car enthusiasts to build thier own Ferrai, or Bently, etc. Why would we expect enthusiasts to build their own rig. It is us hobbiests that build machines. We are the techies, gear heads, etc. we are the ones who are not afraid to get dirty and build from the ground up.

Click to expand...

Just to make sure you guys are reading these 2 posts correctly:

don256us said:

Just to add my oppinion to this. We don't expect high end car enthusiasts to build thier own Ferrai, or Bently, etc. Why would we expect enthusiasts to build their own rig. It is us hobbiests that build machines. We are the techies, gear heads, etc. we are the ones who are not afraid to get dirty and build from the ground up.

Click to expand...

gustav said:

well would you want to build your own car and know every part thats under the hood? i dont think so. to some people computers are as complicated as cars. they just dont want to deal with the problems. like said above, they just want to press the power button and have it work. dont tell me you dont know people like this because most people are this way. why do you think dell is so popular? they dont provide the elusive rigs that alienware provides, but they provide a machine that works (most of the time) without any trouble. the common person doesnt want to take the time to learn how to build a rig and deal with the problems that arrise.

while this is opinion, its not a very good point. there are car enthusiests who want fast, souped up, tricked out car but dont want to do the work themselves, there are shops that will build them their dream car, but again for a price. a high performance computer is the same way. some people want it but dont want to deal with building it. so places like alienware step in and do it for them for a price. is it overpriced? depends on who you are. to us, who do the work ourselves and can save the money yes it is overpriced. to someone who wants it and is willing to pay for it, no it may not be overpriced to them.

why arent they going out of business? because there is a market. like customizing cars for celebrities or company CEO's, there is a market of people who have the money to pay for it, but dont have the time or patience to learn how to do it.

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I goto school at michigan tech...it's the norm for all my friends to change they're own oil, breakpads, suspensions, etc....how many of you do that?
Seriously...if anyone else here posts saying anythign about how "easy" it is, or how "lazy" someone is for not building a computer you better be changing your break pads and doing other car maintenance or your being incredibly hippocritical.

Why is it hard for people to understand that someone just wants to be able to come home push a button and play they're favorite game with no problems, they didn't have to research which video card to get, how much RAM, what OC's well, is this PSU enough, how do I apply thermal paste?

And calling someone lazy? My father is a doctor who works 60+ hour weeks, he wants to come home to a computer that works and he doesn't have to reset the cmos, or troubleshoot it and see whats wrong, he just wants it to work.

ajrettke said:

And calling someone lazy? My father is a doctor who works 60+ hour weeks, he wants to come home to a computer that works and he doesn't have to reset the cmos, or troubleshoot it and see whats wrong, he just wants it to work.

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It has become a trend in our glorious civilisation to cut down on things that take time and effort, and replace them by 'easier' and 'more convenient' (god i hate that word) things. I call it a kind of laziness, but i'm not blaming anyone specifically. Its become a trend, and im part of it myself.

ajrettke said:

Read this:

K...Read this:

Just to make sure you guys are reading these 2 posts correctly:




I goto school at michigan tech...it's the norm for all my friends to change they're own oil, breakpads, suspensions, etc....how many of you do that?
Seriously...if anyone else here posts saying anythign about how "easy" it is, or how "lazy" someone is for not building a computer you better be changing your break pads and doing other car maintenance or your being incredibly hippocritical.

Why is it hard for people to understand that someone just wants to be able to come home push a button and play they're favorite game with no problems, they didn't have to research which video card to get, how much RAM, what OC's well, is this PSU enough, how do I apply thermal paste?

And calling someone lazy? My father is a doctor who works 60+ hour weeks, he wants to come home to a computer that works and he doesn't have to reset the cmos, or troubleshoot it and see whats wrong, he just wants it to work.

Click to expand...

I'm a junior in High School. I took small engine class freshman year, worked on a bunch of lawn mowers and snow blowers fixing them up, did an overhaul on my neighbor's lawnmower who was burning oil like you wouldn’t believe. Then last year I took auto tech 1. The teacher in my school has been there for 31 years since the school opened - he knows his stuff. We don’t learn just the basics; we learn what a lot of kids taking the same classes around the country don’t learn. Some important stuff which is often overlooked. Its hard to give an example because he always tells us about XXX which they don’t teach in many places. Last year we tore down a GM V6 and rebuilt it in class, it was mostly class work because most of us didn’t have cars, but we still got 30-40% lab time. This year I took auto tech 2. In this class we learn more troubleshooting than anything, but in the lab we can do whatever we need to on our cars. I'd gotten mostly A's in all three classes, I got a B for the second half of the Auto tech 2 class, we just finished it today with the final. I've changed oil, done brake job (including machining rotors/drums), changed out tranny's, done clutch jobs, replaced tie rods, ball joints, springs, shocks, universal joints, cv joints, changed out O2 censors, done compression tests, vacuum tests, you name it I’ve done it or seen it done by my instructor. Done a lot of maintenance stuff. Just because this is a forum about overclocking and computers, doesn't mean we're all nerds who sit around at our computers all day tweaking it and messing around with computer related things. I love computers, but I also love cars, and that’s the field I’m going into. After high school I plan to go to a community college around here that is known for their auto tech program. Then I plan to go to a regular college to get a bachelors degree in business and go on to hopefully work at a dealer. I wanted to do something with computers but I've talked to people in the field that said its nothing but a headache and its hard to get a job in it these days.

The reason I said what I said above was because some car enthusiasts don’t build or customize their own car from scratch. Do you? I doubt it, but if you do props to ya. I don't, but when I'm older and have the time/money I plan to. Some people who have the money have special shops which do this for them. They build custom cars to how they want, or take an old car and re-gut it like new. I would say a lot of car enthusiasts build/customize their own cars, but just like computer enthusiasts some don’t have the time/will to do so. That’s the comparison I was making. I wasn't talking about maintenance things and I wasn't talking about the average person who doesn't know much about cars/how they work/how to maintain or repair them, I was talking about the enthusiasts.

ajrettke said:

And calling someone lazy? My father is a doctor who works 60+ hour weeks, he wants to come home to a computer that works and he doesn't have to reset the cmos, or troubleshoot it and see whats wrong, he just wants it to work.

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I install windows in houses, I work my butt off doing it, and in the busy season(read: 9 months out of the year) I work anywhere from 60 to 80 hours per week. That work entails climbing ladders with windows on my shoulder, cutting holes in brick walls to install windows and doors, up and down stairs/ladders 6 dozen times a day, before lunch, and I still build my own computers.

Please don't turn this into a "This PROFESSIONAL works so hard" kind of thread, cause that's just plain BS. We all want a computer that works all the time, that's a given. No one, and I mean NO ONE has to pay those kinds of prices to get that kind of performance. If nothing ever goes wrong with an Alienware of FalconNW system, why do they need a customer service department, or a help line?

Think about that.