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[Ret Sticky]Overclocking sndbx for A64 939 systems with Winchester, Opteron dual core

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nicknomo said:
And to think how many people scream and shout how you need a 500 watt plus psu for a system like that...

Oh, how short-sighted you are. As hightecjb1 wisely noted, his operations were only for short bursts of time. In other words, that lowly 20-pin unit is not sufficient for 24/7 usage. Also, let's not forget that the 6600GT does not chew up a considerable amount of power compared to a 6800GT/Ultra or x800 card. And for the record, some of the same people "screaming" about this 24-pin requirements are actual employees for DFI. So I suppose they're wrong, too? :-/

deception``
 
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nicknomo said:
Now who's short sighted? I never said that you should use a 350w... The power supply would probably be short lived. BUT it does show that everyone who reccomends a 500 watt+ psu for everything under the sun has no clue what they are talking about. Even if this p.s.u is at maximum load, a 25-30% extra would only put you 420-450w.

Sorry, but short bursts of operation prove absolutely nothing. Furthermore, it does not prove that only a 420-450W is adequate, either. What it does mean is this: a 350W is insufficient for 24/7 usage. Period. And I pointed out the fac t that it was 20-pin simply because it is, irregardless of whether you mentioned this fact or not. And like I said, a lot of those same people with "no clue" are those that have the most familiarity with these boards (and not just myself) such as bigtoe (OCZ rep) and Angry Games who works for DFI himself. So you're way off to the mark to call these individuals (who happened to be large contributors toward the products themselves) to be "clueless."

deception``
 
The Fortron 350W is good enough for testing the Winchester 3000+ to 2.7-2.8 GHz full load, 2.9 GHz (as least system boot), as the 6600 GT is not overclocked, also there are only 1 HD and 1 OD. Currently, the system is running with an Antec True 550 W which has higher 12 V current (24 A rated). I plan to get a PSU with 24-pin with higher 12 V current for this system.

From some calculations I did, this is what I come up with. The key is the 12 V current not just the total power, as well as other features such as 24-pin connectors, SATA connectors, PCI-e connector for high power video cards.

Estimate is just a guide line, actual testing is important.

Let's move onto somethings else more interesting other than focusing too much on just PSU. :)

hitechjb1 said:
A PSU with effective current rating 28 A on the 12 V, with effective power of 400 W is recommended for Nforce3/4 system with an overclocked A64 (~ 1.55 V 2.6 GHz), a high power video card (e.g. X800/850 Pro/XT/XL, 6600/6800 GT/Ultra), 4 HD + 2 OD, ....

A PSU with effective current rating 30 - 33 A on the 12 V, with effective power of 500 W is recommended for Nforce4 system with an overclocked A64 (~ 1.55 V 2.6 GHz), dual high power video cards (e.g. X800/850 Pro/XT/XL, 6600/6800 GT/Ultra), 4 HD + 2 OD, ....

For the details about the calculation and possible PSU selection:
PSU rating estimate for some 939 CPU and system
 
nicknomo said:
Yeah.. thats a great overclock.. Why did you pick that particular week cpu?

I had the week 0447, 48, 50, 51 and CBBHD in mind. The week 05xx and CBBID are too recent and I haven't seen much results on them. The stores at that time had 3000+ and 3200+ SPAW, SPMW, TPAW, TPEW, UPEW and some other ones.

I picked the 0447 CBBHD UPCW was because everything being equal and lack of better criteria, I picked the one which was priced the least. The other ones I mentioned are equally good, IMO.

In general, the 3200+ is preferred since lower motherboard HTT and memory frequency are sufficient to deliver the same CPU frequency, especially if it is not sure what the board and memory can achieve a priori.

Since I assumed the DFI LP Nforce4 and G. Skill 4400 can deliver 300 MHz memory bus 2.5-4-4-x and the CPU target was 2.7 GHz, so I picked that 3000+ instead of a 3200+, also based on cost saving. Anything above 300 MHz memory and 2700 MHz CPU are above my objective.

After all, it may well be just luck of the draw.
 
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deception`` said:
Sorry, but short bursts of operation prove absolutely nothing. Furthermore, it does not prove that only a 420-450W is adequate, either. What it does mean is this: a 350W is insufficient for 24/7 usage. Period.

why is that? a well-built power supply that can supply enough amps on each given line is all you need. looking at these parts:

- athlon 64 winchester at 2.9 ghz (50-60w)
- 512 mb ram (20w)
- one hard drive (8w)
- 6600 gt (40w)

his system is only going to draw about 150w dc during heavy load, so a psu with a 16-20a 12v rail will do fine so long as it's well-made.

there seems to be a prevailing attitude that psu's are inherently pieces of junk, and the only way to safely power your computer is to use one rated 3 or 4 times higher than your actual wattage draw. if you're buying a rebadged junk psu that cost $3 in bulk from taiwan (yes you can get atx psu's for $3 in bulk), then it will probably blow up in your face. but a psu that's using high-end com-spec or industry-spec parts and enough airflow will actually be able to supply its rated current without catching on fire.

i've always prefered to source psu's sold straight from the manufacturers (seasonic, fortron, topower, etc.) rather than rebadgers (powmax, ocz, thermaltake, antec, vantec, etc.) as there's one less link in the chain for funny business to happen.
 
nicknomo said:
No offense deception, but I can tell you have done a lot of reading.. and very little trying out. Furthermore, I don't think I am contradicting any knoweledgable person, nor anyone on this thread right now... other than yourself.

The fact is, you don't need a ton of wattage for every single machine. I've put 430 and 480 antecs on newer P4's... and guess what.. it runs fine for the people I build them for. I've had very few problems. Granted, the people I build them for run at stock, but sometimes with 2 opticals and 2 hard drive, with mid to high end gfx cards. I would never reccommend or use it, but they occasionally run fine on those cheap *** 420 watters from raidmax. Using a quality p.s.u, they run just fine. Do you think Dell, or these other builders put a 140$ p.s.u in these machines? Yeah, right. 50$ tops.

Not everything needs 500+ watts. Its nice.. but not required, and it will run fine with less...

Actually, nicknomo, you have it all wrong.

Sure, I do plenty of reading, but I also do a plethora of testing and building, too. And it is also rather erroneous for you to assume that my only experience is based on the Athlon XP system in my signature. Contrary to your belief, I have learned through first-hand experience that a strong power supply makes a difference across all platforms. In many cases, a medicore unit is fine for just that: mediocre performance. But if you want a heavily clocked processor with a power-hungry graphics card and bells and whistles and be stable 24/7, you're going to need a good unit. Period.

And for the record, I never recall actually saying that hightechjb1 needed a 500W unit for his setup. This is due to the fact that he is running a single 6600GT which does not chew up much power. However, my problem with your argument was this: you assumed that, a 500W unit was not necessary simply based on his intial testing, which he admitted did not last for more than several hours. This is wrong. On the flip side, it would also be wrong for me to assume that he needs a 500W+ unit based soley on a few tests. My point was that absolutely nothing can be assumed when booting a system for a few tests in a matter of hours. Rather, it's going to require a bit more practical usage to determine the power needs of his (or anyone else's) system. So while a 350W (20-pin or not) is good for a few benches, it's not sufficient for 24/7 usage over a long period of time.

The most important power issue with the DFI motherboards is the use of a native 24-pin power supply, as they provide a much more even distribution of flow to the entire circuitry of the board. I hate to break it to you, but I highly doubt that you'll find a 350W unit to support this feature.

running a pentium 2 on a 440BX motherboard... OCZ 520!

Also, let's try to keep the purile comments to a minimum here. Perhaps you find it humorous, but I'm sure that such extemporaneous comments make you look more foolish than anything. I don't mind a discussion or argument, but I'd rather hold one with those of an adult mind.

deception``
 
hitechjb1 said:
I had the week 0447, 48, 50, 51 and CBBHD in mind. The week 05xx and CBBID are too recent and I haven't seen much results on them. The stores at that time had 3000+ and 3200+ SPAW, SPMW, TPAW, TPEW, UPEW and some other ones.

I picked the 0447 CBBHD UPCW was because everything being equal and lack of better criteria, I picked the one which was priced the least. The other ones I mentioned are equally good, IMO.

In general, the 3200+ is preferred since lower motherboard HTT and memory frequency are sufficient to deliver the same CPU frequency, especially if it is not sure what the board and memory can achieve a priori.

Since I assumed the DFI LP Nforce4 and G. Skill 4400 can deliver 300 MHz memory bus 2.5-4-4-x and the CPU target was 2.7 GHz, so I picked that 3000+ instead of a 3200+, also based on cost saving. Anything above 300 MHz memory and 2700 MHz CPU are above my objective.

After all, it may well be just luck of the draw.

Well you certainly picked a winner... :clap:
 
Sentential said:
Im looking at your CPUz shots and I could just cry :cry: <sigh> The life of a pioneer is a sad one indeed.


I feel your pain Sen, god must hate us. I even have a newer stepping 3200+ and couldn't even get to 2.5 !!!!! I am hoping it was the ram that was holding me back but we will know soon since some TCCD goodness is in the mail. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
 
thats a great overclock man congrats :D

i also have to agree with nicknomo its nice to have a decent PSU but u dont really need it and yes that Enermax PSU would do fine in any system overclocked or not

ive just fixed a Tiny P4 3.0E with loads of stuff in there to much to list and guess what it only had a ISO 400watt PSU who are ISO ? ive never heard off them and its powering that PC fine
 
Steven4563 said:
i also have to agree with nicknomo its nice to have a decent PSU but u dont really need it and yes that Enermax PSU would do fine in any system overclocked or not

If you had carefully looked at the discussion, you would know that it had nothing to do with that Enermax unit posted in nick's link. Furthermore, I never once mentioned a need for a 500W+ unit or an OCZ/PC&C or any other luxurious power supply.

deception``
 
You are the master of overclocking!! Excellent numbers each time!

Big congratulations on (finally) taking the plunge-- your results are even better than what I would've expected!


Haven't read through the thread completely (sorry :eek: ) but those that know me know I'm the greatest cheapskate ever, and always try to get away with the bare minimum. I did try using my 300W Fortron on my system when my 530W was being RMAed, and although it was solid up to about 2450MHz or so, it started to get flaky past there. But the short bursts as Hitechjb1 noted were also possible. I could run 2 minute benchmarks at a hundred MHz higher, but any prolonged usage was difficult. In fact, even getting through a complete 3dmark run was painful.

With some excellent 400-500w offerings for just a bit over 50 bucks, there's no reason why this shouldn't be the way to go.
 
I never said it had anything to do with it but HE said do u think it would be enuff for that system and personally i would say yes it is

I NEVER said that u said u need a 500W+ OCZ or PC Power & Cooling so where did u get that from ?

i said i agree with nick saying its nice to have a Decent PSU but u DONT really need one
 
Gautam said:
You are the master of overclocking!! Excellent numbers each time!

Big congratulations on (finally) taking the plunge-- your results are even better than what I would've expected!


Haven't read through the thread completely (sorry :eek: ) but those that know me know I'm the greatest cheapskate ever, and always try to get away with the bare minimum. I did try using my 300W Fortron on my system when my 530W was being RMAed, and although it was solid up to about 2450MHz or so, it started to get flaky past there. But the short bursts as Hitechjb1 noted were also possible. I could run 2 minute benchmarks at a hundred MHz higher, but any prolonged usage was difficult. In fact, even getting through a complete 3dmark run was painful.

With some excellent 400-500w offerings for just a bit over 50 bucks, there's no reason why this shouldn't be the way to go.

Actually the Fortron 350W is not for short burst testing. I figured out it should be OK before a full setup with more components.

The Fortron 350W had been used to test the system for more than one day continuously without a single BSOD, system hang, ..., with the Winchester between 2.7 - 2.9 GHz priming, the 6600 GT at rated 525/1050, as well as one HD and one OD, all drawing 12 V current.

From an engineering stand point, the 12 V current rating of the Fortron 350W (12 mm fan) is marginal at that level (16 A rated).

I swapped it with an Antec True 550 which is rated 24 A on 12 V for now until the time I feel a 24-pin PSU with higher 12 V current is needed.

Let's move onto something else than just PSU. :)
 
Wow, pretty sweet OC hitechjb1, especially on a Sparkle 350!

Subscribed. :)

*edit* Let it sink in a bit, and dang, that is one insane memory OC. I guess these A64s are what it's all about now. :drool:
 
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