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  1. #1
    Member BeerCan's Avatar
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    Hockey coming back?

    For all the hockey fans out there how do you feel about the recent developments? Personally it pisses me off. They could have made these concessions months ago.

    Any way if hockey does come back who do you think has the best shot at the cup? I like the bolts, but I am not sure what the roster will look like on the short season. I have talked to a few of the players that stayed in the Tampa area and they are anxious to play. So lets get it on.

  2. #2
    Member glock19owner's Avatar
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    As for the latest word...the season will be called off wensday (tomorrow)...even with the slow break through...salary cap is still the big issue right now...union wants a 51 cap while the league is staying firm on 40...

    And if the season started right now...I dont think anyone would be a contender since no team has been able to fully practice...

    Personally...they need to kill the rest of the season...cut the loss and let this blow over...hockey was already in trouble and doesnt need to cut its own throat to the juggular...

    BTW...Red Wings all the way
    Last edited by glock19owner; 02-16-05 at 01:23 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Django-loving Member Captain Newbie's Avatar
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    *tear*

    No hockey this year.

    Man...it just keeps on gettin' better, don't it?
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  4. #4
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    Gary Betman sucks!!!

    My interest in hockey has diminished.

  5. #5
    Member zip22's Avatar
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    i really love college hockey. tickets are cheap too. the rink is bigger if im not mistaken as well.

    i also heard the season will be called tomorrow

  6. #6
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    my roommate has the right Idea, fold the league and remake it, with the orginal six as the base and add a few of the big market teams, like Dallas and the like.

  7. #7
    Member Komitet's Avatar
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    I'm quite enjoying OHL and AHL games, I can't see NHL doing anything for me, I could care less about teams, I say they agree on 45 million, call the season off, and donate their salaries to people in need this year.

    Rest assured, they'll still get their $10000 unemployment...

    Heare's an awesome highlight from a Feb 2nd game, This is my cousin,

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    Last edited by Komitet; 02-16-05 at 08:40 AM.
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  8. #8
    Member TimoneX's Avatar
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    This whole mess smells like...
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  9. #9
    hibner's Avatar
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    I just hope that a agrrement can be made before next season. Everone has been taking their sweet time. They will have to have 3 months of training to make up for all the time off.


    Go Penguins.
    Last edited by hibner; 02-18-05 at 10:05 PM.

  10. #10
    Disabled theMonster's Avatar
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    I agree with the guy above, fold the league and start over. I like the AHL better myself. There's too much finness in the NHL and things get dull, the barns are too big and the tickets are too expensive. I think the AHL could replace the NHL and if the "stars" don't like the terms, let them go play world cup or something. You could rebuild the NHL, but you'd have to start with your core teams like Toronto, Ottowa, Detroit, Colorado and Calgary then cut loose all the dead wood like Florida, Carolina, Phoenix, Columbus, Pittsburgh, New York(both), Sacremento etc......

  11. #11
    Member Aslan's Avatar
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    The "negotiations" they did were utter crap and it was mainly just pointless posturing. If both sides actually had attempted to seriously negotiate, rather than sit on their hands and spout off cliches to the media, then I think the season would have been saved. I pretty much assumed that the season would be cancelled in November, when it was obvious that neither side was actually trying.

    I'm finding that my interest in the game has shrunk also, and I'm not sure how much I would care once hockey comes back. The WHL is decent, but there is a noticeable drop in the skill level.

  12. #12
    Member deRusett's Avatar
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    I hope that an agreement can be made as well

    I missed having hockey its fine to go to a bar and sit and drink watching a game of hockey when you have nothing better to do, you are an Alcoholic if you do that to Golf. hehe

    Anyway, no hockey defiantly Killed Many business owners this winter, if the NHL doesn't comeback some Organization needs to take its place

    I would love to see a CNHL and each province have a team, 1 game a week round-robin so the players can have lives out side of hockey, and play the game for our entertainment, provincial competition is always fun.
    Success is..
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  13. #13
    Member glock19owner's Avatar
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    Its offical...


    NHL ANNOUNCES CANCELLATION OF 2004-05 SEASON

    NEW YORK (February 16, 2005) - The National Hockey League announced today that, because a new collective bargaining agreement has not been realized, it no longer is practical to conduct an abbreviated 2004-05 season.

    NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman issued the following statement:

    "Every professional sports League owes its very existence to its fans. Everyone associated with the National Hockey League owes our fans an apology for being unable to accomplish what is necessary for our game and our fans. We are truly sorry.

    "Five months ago, I stated that the National Hockey League could not function without an economic system that will bring our League into the 21st Century. I said that our 30 Clubs were united in their dedication to an economic system under which the teams and players, sharing common objectives and a commitment to our fans' satisfaction, would work together as partners.

    "The time since then has been devoted to the pursuit of that goal. Today, I can tell you that our determination remains every bit as strong as it was in September to secure the partnership required to protect and ensure the future of the League ... for the benefit of the Clubs, the Players, and our devoted fans.

    "When I stood before you in September, I said NHL teams would not play again until our economic problems had been solved. As I stand before you today, it is my sad duty to announce that because that solution has not yet been attained, it no longer is practical to conduct even an abbreviated season. Accordingly, I have no choice but to announce the formal cancellation of play for 2004-05.

    "We profoundly regret the suffering this has caused our fans, our business partners and the thousands of people who depend on our industry for their livelihoods. We will continue to explore and pursue all available options in order to achieve a successful resolution to this dispute and to get the best game in the world back where it belongs -- on the ice, in front of the best fans in the world.

    "As I also said in September, what we must do now is not about the present or the short-term needs of this season. Rather, it is about the future of our League and 30 teams.

    "The National Hockey League was formed in 1917, and it has played a season through to a championship in every year but 1919. Through the decades and the generations we have faced a variety of crises and challenges -- some of which seemed catastrophic at the time. The League persevered through all those adversities and the League will persevere through this one, as well -- to emerge with a framework for the future, one that is fair to everyone -- where our players are fairly paid, receiving what we can afford -- no more, no less.

    "This is a sad, regrettable day that all of us wish could have been avoided."

  14. #14
    Member invisible hand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mmCensor
    Gary Betman sucks!!!
    Well I couldn't have said it any better. The NHL got themselves into this problem and then they go around blaming the "greedy players".

    It wasn't that long ago that NHL player's made very little money, had no pensions or job security. If they got injured they made no money. If they left hockey they had no skills and found it nearly imossible to re-enter the work force.

    And somehow a large segment of the population sides with the NHL and it's wealthy minority, believing that they are being held hostage by player greed.....ooohh pity the rich.....the word "hegemony" comes to mind.

    We must remember that these poor owners are often the same people that own the arena's.....so lets see how this works.

    For example

    Team earns $75,000,000
    minus player costs - $50,000,000
    **minus arena** - $30,000,000

    Boo Hoo I lost $5,000,000....oh wait, don't tell anyone that the area made a 1000% profit on the arena

    Oh well I'll end my rant....always remembering that the rich don't own depreciating assets.

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  15. #15
    Member deRusett's Avatar
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    I'm in favour of a Salary Cap, but the Cap should be tied into Proffits, if a Owner makes a crazy amount of Proffit off his team it should be shared,

    but I don't think the players should be able to demand stupid amounts of money, come on, 8 million dollar contracts the fan base of Hockey is not near as large as the NFL or baseball, Hockey Players should not be expecting the same pay as those guys get
    Success is..
    At age 4 .... success is .... not peeing in your pants.
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    At age 50 .... success is .... having money.
    At age 60 .... success is .... having sex.
    At age 70 .... success is .... having a driving licence.
    At age 75 .... success is .... having friends.
    At age 80 .... success is .... not peeing in your pants
    At Any Age ... success is ... Folding for Team 32

  16. #16
    Member glock19owner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deRusett
    but I don't think the players should be able to demand stupid amounts of money, come on, 8 million dollar contracts the fan base of Hockey is not near as large as the NFL or baseball, Hockey Players should not be expecting the same pay as those guys get
    Ok...I guess I have to play the other side of the field ...

    Why do you say this when in fact hockey is more physically and mentally demanding then both football and baseball combined...wont even bring b-ball into this mess...and really...baseball players make more in percs then in any other sports...even the lowest paid players are very well taken care of with the percs...if they get hurt...they get a check...if they get disabled...they get a check...and if something should happen that they would become physically disabled playing baseball...guess what...there healty insurance and percs have them covered for life...also...baseball union has a retirement fund...NFL union just set up a ret. fund less then 10yrs ago...and as far as I know...hockey players still do not have a ret. fund for any of the players...that is upon there own...

    This is not the same for football and even worse for hockey...so really...the hockey players should be making more then the average football/baseball player...

    I would love to see a all star pro football player play even 2 minutes of a real hockey game and see which sport they choice ...

  17. #17
    Member TimoneX's Avatar
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    Yes but the NHL just doesn't bring in the money that the NFL, MLB, or NBA does. There are several teams teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and with players demanding more and more and more those teams will simply not be able to aquire star players and will as a result lose fans and even more revenue. Since when did athletes start getting paid based on physical demands?

    Our Red Wings are fine, but alot of markets that would otherwise be able to support a team will fold. Pittsburgh anyone?
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  18. #18
    Member glock19owner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimoneX
    Yes but the NHL just doesn't bring in the money that the NFL, MLB, or NBA does. There are several teams teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and with players demanding more and more and more those teams will simply not be able to aquire star players and will as a result lose fans and even more revenue. Since when did athletes start getting paid based on physical demands?

    Our Red Wings are fine, but alot of markets that would otherwise be able to support a team will fold. Pittsburgh anyone?
    I do understand this...but at the same time...if the NHL would pay players their due...then they would have better players in the US, not going to other countires for better pay and percs...and then the NHL would make its money back because people would actually start going back to hockey games...

    But this is kind of like the old saying...I went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out...

    I personally think the best thing for the NHL would be to bring old time hockey back

    I want to see some red on the ice...and not the red offside line

  19. #19
    Member deRusett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock19owner
    Ok...I guess I have to play the other side of the field ...

    Why do you say this when in fact hockey is more physically and mentally demanding then both football and baseball combined...wont even bring b-ball into this mess...and really...baseball players make more in percs then in any other sports...even the lowest paid players are very well taken care of with the percs...if they get hurt...they get a check...if they get disabled...they get a check...and if something should happen that they would become physically disabled playing baseball...guess what...there healty insurance and percs have them covered for life...also...baseball union has a retirement fund...NFL union just set up a ret. fund less then 10yrs ago...and as far as I know...hockey players still do not have a ret. fund for any of the players...that is upon there own...

    This is not the same for football and even worse for hockey...so really...the hockey players should be making more then the average football/baseball player...

    I would love to see a all star pro football player play even 2 minutes of a real hockey game and see which sport they choice ...

    it has nothing to do with how hard they work it has everything to do with how much money the sport brings in

    I challenge any Hockey Player to Compete with a Wrestler of the same caliber in fitness, I assure you the wrestler would come out as a far better athlete,

    but An Olympic Gold Medalist in Wrestling is lucky to earn a Million dollar sponcership deal, few people want to watch Wrestling.

    and unfortunatly few poeple watch Hockey compared to the people who watch Baseball, Basket Ball, and Football, Generate the fan suport these have and you can demand all the money you want
    Success is..
    At age 4 .... success is .... not peeing in your pants.
    At age 12 .... success is .... having friends.
    At age 17 .... success is .... having a driving licence.
    At age 20 .... success is .... having sex.
    At age 35 .... success is .... having money.
    At age 50 .... success is .... having money.
    At age 60 .... success is .... having sex.
    At age 70 .... success is .... having a driving licence.
    At age 75 .... success is .... having friends.
    At age 80 .... success is .... not peeing in your pants
    At Any Age ... success is ... Folding for Team 32

  20. #20
    Member invisible hand's Avatar
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    Glock19owner

    I think that the NHLPA has the players contribute to a defined benefit plan of some kind....thou, I'm sure its not much money for fringe players.... and they outnumber the stars by a huge margin.

    As far as salaries go....let the market dictate player price, Supply and demand works.

    Star player should get star salaries because what they offer is unique....yet historically it is the owners of these team that reap the financial benefits...and all they do is OWN....heck a duck could own something.


    I recently completed an economic degree and in my last semester I enrolled in a Canadian studies class focused on the business and culture of Hockey at all levels....The class was actually quite hard, the more we read, the more I saw hockey as a pure business and nothing else....the rest is all about creating a circus environment fabricated to produce a spectacle.

    The Hockey reproduces the power struggles found in a modern capitalistic economy. Examples:

    -The panopticon of surveillance
    -A division of labor
    -A hierarchy of authority
    -Perceptions are controlled by the wealthy, often because their business interests are intertwined with the larger economy and owners have historically owned media outlets like newspaper and radio that shape public opinion
    -Historically those with power have exploited players for their own gain.
    -the "game" creates dependency leaving the players with no alternative but to do what they are told. In its extreme form players go into depression after their short career because everything has been done for them....some players have no clue how to apply for a job or even do a simple banking transactions.

    We need to remember that these players have all taken a huge risk financially, physically, emotionally (divorce rates are very high as is depression)

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