Coils

gomerpile · Feb 23, 2005

I have a great cooling system hooked up and running extreme clock speeds, but by accident I discovered that the coils are 50 +.C. Anyone have a mod for cooling them down, I have something that has cooled them 30 to 40 but now I looking at mods.

The cpu runs at 14.5 C on full load and the vga runs a little hotter but not much but the coils are a different story.
There processor imag is not good but I tried to show the dielectric jelly and the amout to use. Yes it is a coolermaste water pump that now is a submergable

snvpa · Feb 23, 2005

What coils are u talking about? the choke coils on the vid cards? or on the mobo? If so you can toss a heatsink on the top of em. Please elaborate.

jcw122 · Feb 23, 2005

Yeah what exactly do u mean by "coils"? coils where?

gomerpile · Feb 23, 2005

snvpa said:
What coils are u talking about? the choke coils on the vid cards? or on the mobo? If so you can toss a heatsink on the top of em. Please elaborate.

Yes the mb sorry for not explanning I will try that thanks

gomerpile · Feb 23, 2005

gomerpile said:
Yes the mb sorry for not explanning I will try that thanks

Here is a link of a coil supplier the 3rd pic is the coil I'm talking about it is on the MB
http://www.filtro.net/products/coils.htm

snvpa · Feb 24, 2005

Those coils are inductors. its normal for them to be quite hot. they put out alot of heat for such a little thing. The best u can do is point a fan at em. Do not try and put a heatsink on it.

gomerpile · Feb 24, 2005

snvpa said:
Those coils are inductors. its normal for them to be quite hot. they put out alot of heat for such a little thing. The best u can do is point a fan at em. Do not try and put a heatsink on it.

Thankyou so very very much I was going to. I went to some coil sites and put a stop to that idea untill someone got back on this. I found the same thing the coils are just the winding and the inductors are the little black things which I believe are a place that stores energy and the coils are heat exchangers so that explains the horriable heat.
In my bios I have the option of performance: fast,turbo,ultra in the past I was never able to get past the fast and the system would lock up and out with the battery. I used the fans yestersay and now my system can go to the ultra setting with no problem at all and all I did was cool down the coils.

Aphex_Tom_9 · Feb 24, 2005

yeah, the power regulation circuits typically get quite warm, especially when running heavy speeds/voltages. just directing a fan over them is usually enough to make them happy, though.

gomerpile · Feb 24, 2005

Aphex_Tom_9 said:
yeah, the power regulation circuits typically get quite warm, especially when running heavy speeds/voltages. just directing a fan over them is usually enough to make them happy, though.

Nice computer specks dude

matttheniceguy · Feb 24, 2005

just a little clarification on those "coils", they are inductors, which if you arn't familiar with essentially give current inertia. An electrical current flows through them, and they try and keep the amount of current flowing through them from changing. That coil of wire on the outside of the toroid is the actual wire that the current flows through. The toroid is usually made of some sort of rare earth magnet. Electrical and magnetic fields are generated in the inductor, and this is what makes it work.

I'm curious as to why they are getting so hot. The amount of heat they produce is just their resistance times the current. When they are fed a constant voltage, their resistance will just be that of the solid copper wire, which is extremely low. When they are fed highly fluctuating voltages the resistance of the inductor will vary greatly to try and regulate the current. This is an electromagnetic impeadance though, so I'm not sure if it generates heat like a regular resistance would (although I can't think how else it would work).

What type of powersupply do you have? Maby your supply is not giving a clean enough voltage and this is causing the extra heat.

Was there any airflow over the motherboard before you added the fan? That might have also been the problem, as there is normall a cpu fan in that area.

man_utd · Feb 24, 2005

Bah, beat me to the explanation, However you all forgot one thing...

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

Since87 · Feb 24, 2005

matttheniceguy said:
The toroid is usually made of some sort of rare earth magnet.

No. The toroid is usually made mostly of iron and/or nickel.

http://www.mag-inc.com/powder/mpp_cores.asp
http://www.mag-inc.com/powder/high_flux_cores.asp
http://www.mag-inc.com/powder/kool_mu_cores.asp

matttheniceguy said:
I'm curious as to why they are getting so hot. The amount of heat they produce is just their resistance times the current. When they are fed a constant voltage, their resistance will just be that of the solid copper wire, which is extremely low. When they are fed highly fluctuating voltages the resistance of the inductor will vary greatly to try and regulate the current. This is an electromagnetic impeadance though, so I'm not sure if it generates heat like a regular resistance would (although I can't think how else it would work).

There will be significant power dissipation in the copper wire. (Consider the amount of current flowing through it.)

There will also be a substantial amount of power dissipation in the core. (See "core loss")

gomerpile · Feb 24, 2005

matttheniceguy said:
just a little clarification on those "coils", they are inductors, which if you arn't familiar with essentially give current inertia. An electrical current flows through them, and they try and keep the amount of current flowing through them from changing. That coil of wire on the outside of the toroid is the actual wire that the current flows through. The toroid is usually made of some sort of rare earth magnet. Electrical and magnetic fields are generated in the inductor, and this is what makes it work.

I'm curious as to why they are getting so hot. The amount of heat they produce is just their resistance times the current. When they are fed a constant voltage, their resistance will just be that of the solid copper wire, which is extremely low. When they are fed highly fluctuating voltages the resistance of the inductor will vary greatly to try and regulate the current. This is an electromagnetic impeadance though, so I'm not sure if it generates heat like a regular resistance would (although I can't think how else it would work).

What type of powersupply do you have? Maby your supply is not giving a clean enough voltage and this is causing the extra heat.

Was there any airflow over the motherboard before you added the fan? That might have also been the problem, as there is normall a cpu fan in that area.

System specks:
MSI kt600 delta v2
2-Enermax EG651p-v Power distribution 550 Watts
Max 3.3v 36A, 5V 36A, 12V 36A
MIN .3A .3A 1.5a
512 kingston value ram 400MHZ cl2.5
Arogate 11 digital display and temp montior with sensors
Asus 6800ge video card
xp 3200
Lg 52x cdrom
LG 4120b dual layer dvd super drive
WD 180 g sata drive
Wd 120 G 7200rpm ide
1 of my power supplies drive the cpu,vcard and now two fans for the coils
2nd power supply operates the arogate, waterpumps and three fans in the cold box.
I use a power swithching system with its own transformers and rewired a 300v wire to the panel in the house. If you need any pics I will give but only if it is needed.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=613537

I looked at the inductor in the links and mine are light green

matttheniceguy · Feb 25, 2005

whoops... my mistake on the toroid... I always thought it was a magnet... although I guess with the coil and current it would be an electromagnet anyway...

I'm not sure that the resistance of a piece of copper wire that long is enough to generate sugnificant heat though. The resistance of wire that thick is on the order of 10 ohms per 1000 feet. The total resistance of the wire around the toroid is gona have a hole pile of zeros in front of it.

In any case, your powersupplies are good, and shouldn't be giving you any problems.

I.M.O.G. · Feb 25, 2005

You should have made that mistake a while ago matt, haven't seen since87 around for quite some time... If I only knew that was all it would take.

YHPM since87, welcome back.

Since87 · Feb 25, 2005

matttheniceguy said:
whoops... my mistake on the toroid... I always thought it was a magnet... although I guess with the coil and current it would be an electromagnet anyway...

It's not really much of an electromagnet. One of the major benefits of using a toroidal core is that the magnetic field is mostly contained within the core. Therefore you wouldn't even be able to say pick up something as light as a straightpin with any sane amount of current flowing through the inductor.

matttheniceguy said:
I'm not sure that the resistance of a piece of copper wire that long is enough to generate sugnificant heat though. The resistance of wire that thick is on the order of 10 ohms per 1000 feet. The total resistance of the wire around the toroid is gona have a hole pile of zeros in front of it.

Looking at my IC-7 motherboard...

It has a four phase Vcore supply, so four inductors. The inductors all have three strands of 0.03 in. diameter wire wrapped six times through the core. The dimensions of the core are such that it would take about 1.3 inches of wire per turn for a total of 7.8 inches of wire.

Copper wire of that thickness will have a resistance of 11.5 ohms per 1000 feet or 0.000958 Ohms per inch for a total resistance per wire of 0.0074 Ohms per wire. Divide that by three and you get 0.0025 Ohms per inductor. Two zeros is a "hole pile" (sic)?

Now assume the CPU requires 80 Watts at 1.5V. Then the total DC current through the inductor will be 80 divided by 1.5 or 53.3 Amps. Divide that current by the four inductors and you get 13.3 Amps. So the power dissipated in the copper wire of each inductor will be 0.442 Watts.

That is a fairly significant amount of power to be disspating in a volume as small as the copper on the inductor.

Since87 · Feb 25, 2005

Hi I.M.O.G.,

Will respond to your PM later.

Sean

matttheniceguy · Feb 25, 2005

I guess I never considered less than 0.5 watts to be much heat energy. Looking only at the convection to the air, I get a delta T ranging anywhere from 10 to 50 degrees or more depending on the airflow though, so I guess that is enough to heat those things up.... hmm... well I guess that solves that...

gomerpile · Feb 26, 2005

matttheniceguy said:
I guess I never considered less than 0.5 watts to be much heat energy. Looking only at the convection to the air, I get a delta T ranging anywhere from 10 to 50 degrees or more depending on the airflow though, so I guess that is enough to heat those things up.... hmm... well I guess that solves that...

Thanks guys I have learned a great deal here and now I'm still trying to rig a mod for them, math math math I hated it in school. I wonder if I could get better inductors already coiled. I must say the people in this fourm are the smartest I seen yet thank you very much.

Since87 · Feb 26, 2005

gomerpile said:
I wonder if I could get better inductors already coiled.

It's unlikely you could find inductors that would be better than those. There's a whole lot more math than I showed above that goes into designing inductors for a supply like that. Those inductors are most likely custom designed for that purpose.

It would take a lot more information than I have convenient access to, to figure out an even slight improvement on the design.

There is virtually nothing to be gained by having cooler inductors anyway.

Coils

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