Nvidia chaeting with #'s on the 7800GTX

This is interesting to know, but it doesnt change the fact that the 7800 is owning right now on the ORB. I dont care if it reports the clocks at 100MHz, these cards FLY.

No one said any different. Performace is the reason I prchased the card...

I don't think anyone here is doubting the performance of the card (becuae it is a great card) we are, however, doubting the integrity of Nvidia. By having different speeds set at 2d and 3d they skew power consumption graphs and make ALL those previous rumors about their cards consuming too much power go away.

I mean this point is just a small one in reality, the main thing that bothers me is that the company is being dishonest. And I know many will say, what company isn't, and that's true to a certain degree. I just think in this case, Nvidia is being more dishonest than everyone else, which makes it stick out, which makes it even worse of a thing.

Moot point: But I think most of us here care more about performance than honesty anyways, I'm the same. But I, like many of us, still do want the company which I'm supporting, in a sense, (by buying their merchandise) to not be sleazy and dishonest.
It's kinda like going to convenience store knowing that the owner is a fat liar. Now sure all you want to get is a dr. pepper, but there Will be some form of discomfort buying from this man especially if you can get the same dr. pepper for around the same price somewhere else (which you can't do right now anyways since ATI is slow as sh*t).

wfarid said:

i was initially impressed with how low the idle power consumption was, but this kinda explains it. It might just be a bug in the driver, but for some reason I doubt it is.

edit: thanks for the info viperjohn

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The 7800 is a power HOG even at idle. You would not believe how hot the
Vcore PS components run on a stock card even when just idling at the Windows desktop.

Viper

What doesn't make sense to me is why don't they just bump it up that 40mhz stock and sell them that way. It would make sense because the market for these are perfomacne minded and not really careing about power use. Doing that would make their card look better and also the company.

I honestly don't the see the issue either - only if in fact NVidia was to remove throttling later and reduce the performance of the cards after all the reviews are in and leave the users stranded with reduced performance like VP said ...otherwise what is the damage?

This sure smells of ATI fanboy's crying foul. Whats the fuss really? It's not like they sold a card they advertised that runs 600Mhz when it only really runs at 500Mhz. There are any number of reasons the mhz could of changed. Yeilds were better and found extra mhz could be run without reliability issues. Certain benchmarking numbers had to match PR and marketing numbers so engineering had to resolve quickly. Nvidia is corporate america like many others, management makes decisions in a vacuum and the technical groups have to rush to resolve.

If anything this may proove there's a lot of OC ability in this card well beyond that of the 6 series. If they are factory OC'ing the card (for a lack of better words) it means this architecture gpu is not really being utilized to the design limits.

There's nothing deceptive about giving you more then you paid for.

ViperJohn said:

The 7800 is a power HOG even at idle. You would not believe how hot the
Vcore PS components run on a stock card even when just idling at the Windows desktop.

Viper

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now thats kind of scary since i have one arriving tuesday to play with.

guess ill need to start sinking more than just the memory on these cards.

hawtrawkr said:

now thats kind of scary since i have one arriving tuesday to play with.

guess ill need to start sinking more than just the memory on these cards.

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a bit of airflow takes care of it, 6800u's do the same thing and draw more power than these cards

JeffP: it's funny you bring up ati fanboys because you sound like an nvidia one. the whole point was that it's a "behind your back" optimization to make them look better in benchmarks. nvidia didn't just "find" an extra 40mhz.

ATI has done the same thing in the past, but when they do it, the ATI fanboys say "Oh, ATI is being generous!". When nVidia does it, they say "Hot Dang, they gone and done overclocked my there card!"

AntmanMike said:

ATI has done the same thing in the past

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? link ?

Why would I have links dating back that far?
You don't remember the 'ATI Quality Decrease during Games' scandal?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030526040035.html

nV has had their IQ scandals as well, but this is a new breed of cheating.

crimedog said:

JeffP: it's funny you bring up ati fanboys because you sound like an nvidia one. the whole point was that it's a "behind your back" optimization to make them look better in benchmarks. nvidia didn't just "find" an extra 40mhz.

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No fanboy love here. I'm a equal opportunity hater. My loyalty goes as far as who has the best hardware for the best price at the time I'm purchasing. Nvidia or ATI, Intel or AMD, DFI or Asus, I could care less. I don't own stock in any of them.

What's so behind your back? That you got more speed and performance then you thought you paid for? This was never a mhz race to see who could perform the best at what speed. The video race has and is about fill rates, features, and benchmarks. They were able to squeeze some additional mhz out of the GPU to get better then expected results. No harm no foul. I'd still buy one if I was in the market for a new card. Didn't sway me for or against it being the top video card for the time being.

JeffP said:

What's so behind your back? That you got more speed and performance then you thought you paid for? This was never a mhz race to see who could perform the best at what speed. The video race has and is about fill rates, features, and benchmarks. They were able to squeeze some additional mhz out of the GPU to get better then expected results. No harm no foul. I'd still buy one if I was in the market for a new card. Didn't sway me for or against it being the top video card for the time being.

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that's the thing. they're not doing this for the love of the consumer, trying to get them an extra 1fps in games. they're doing this purely for reviewers, because that's how they operate.

in the end why wouldnt people just continue to use the drivers that gave them the extra clocks worth of boost? i know i would provided it was stable.

and even if their goal is to give reviewers 1fps more ill take 1fps more as well and be happy. when ati released the 5.6cats i was amazed at the jump it gave me in 05 and aquamark03 i didnt look for someone to blame i just accepted the extra fps. again if nvidia is achieving the extra 40mhz of clock by reducing the performance of the gpu while doing this that would bother me.

mikeguava said:

I honestly don't the see the issue either - only if in fact NVidia was to remove throttling later and reduce the performance of the cards after all the reviews are in and leave the users stranded with reduced performance like VP said ...otherwise what is the damage?

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The 40Mhz high clock in high power 3D mode has nothing to do with low power 3D, often refered to as throttled, mode. LP 3D mode is a normally operating condition the card will drop into if the core gets to warm. Both the core clock and the Vcore are lowered in LP 3D mode. Normally a card will never enter LP 3D mode if you have decent case ventilation.

The 40Mhz we are talking here is in normal high power 3D mode and is a simple matter of the drivers are not setting the core clock generator correctly. Nothing more, nothing less.

Viper

JeffP said:

This sure smells of ATI fanboy's crying foul. Whats the fuss really? It's not like they sold a card they advertised that runs 600Mhz when it only really runs at 500Mhz. There are any number of reasons the mhz could of changed. Yeilds were better and found extra mhz could be run without reliability issues. Certain benchmarking numbers had to match PR and marketing numbers so engineering had to resolve quickly. Nvidia is corporate america like many others, management makes decisions in a vacuum and the technical groups have to rush to resolve.

If anything this may proove there's a lot of OC ability in this card well beyond that of the 6 series. If they are factory OC'ing the card (for a lack of better words) it means this architecture gpu is not really being utilized to the design limits.

There's nothing deceptive about giving you more then you paid for.

Click to expand...

Not ATI Fanboy at all. It is a simple matter of truth in advertising. The normal 7800GTX cards are advertised to run at "X" core clock (typically 430Mhz) not an "X" + a 40Mhz behind you back core clock. All the review numbers for the 7800's are skewed because of that hidden (or should I say tried to be hidden) 40 extra Mhz of HP 3D core clock over what the bios is programmed for or what is set manually. That is a 9% difference at a 430Mhz programmed clock.

I will agree with you the 7800's seem to OC pretty well so why didn't NV just clock the cores up out in the open and be done with it. I think it may be that when the cards are forced to run with a true 430Mhz HP 3D core clock they are not exactly race horses lol. That 9% extra HP 3D core clock that you are not supposed to know about make a big difference in the numbers.

Your statement basically says it all:

"Certain benchmarking numbers had to match PR and marketing numbers so engineering had to resolve quickly."

If "X" + 40Mhz behind the scene is what the NV engineers had to do to make your statement true thats called cheatin' and false advertising my friend. I would prefer to believe it is simply a matter of sloppy driver code accidently setting the core clock generator to high myself (yeah right lol).

Viper

hawtrawkr said:

now thats kind of scary since i have one arriving tuesday to play with.

guess ill need to start sinking more than just the memory on these cards.

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It is easily taken care of using RivaTuner to manually speed up the stock GPU cooler fan or with a case side fan.

Viper

AntmanMike said:

ATI has done the same thing in the past, but when they do it, the ATI fanboys say "Oh, ATI is being generous!". When nVidia does it, they say "Hot Dang, they gone and done overclocked my there card!"

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You are dead wrong there. ATI runs the core at the same clock in 2D or 3D modes. The core clock you get is the clock programmed in bios or the clock you set manually not an across the board and behind your back "X core clock" + 40Mhz even when you set the drivers for no OC at all.

Viper