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  1. #1
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    Unhappy My mobo's mojo's KO'd?

    Ok, I could use some help on this one.

    I've been having trouble getting a reasonable overclock on my
    Duron 750. It's an AKCA stepping, so I should be getting
    somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 gig out of it according to the
    charts. Thus far I can't reliably get beyond 940. Now before you
    start telling me to check my cooling. I'm just talking about
    getting the thing to boot. Cooling shouldn't be a significant
    issue in this case. In general, as I increase the CPU speed
    either by increasing the multiplier of the fsb, the first failure
    I get is a two tone video card failure. If I increase beyond that
    I get a repeating long beep indicating a ram failure. But if I
    increase a bit more I just get a black screen, no beeps at all.
    The drives spin up and the mobo led lights up, but nothing appears
    on the screen.

    Now there are several odd things to throw in to the mix.

    First, sometimes I can get the machine to boot at a certain speed,
    run the machine stably for several hours, but as soon as I try to
    reboot, it won't boot at all. By not booting at all, I mean I
    don't even get to the POST, I either get a video card not found beep, or i just get a black screen. When this happens I can sometimes get past it by turning the machine off at the PSU. That is, in certain configurations if I do a standard reboot, it won't boot; if I do a reset, it won't boot; but if I shut the power off at the PSU, turn it back on, and then boot the computer, it boots fine. Sometimes even this procedure won't coax a reboot and I just have to clear the CMOS and start over.

    Second, I can sometimes coax a higher speed from the cpu by
    fiddling with the video card. The odd thing here is that the best
    speed is often obtained by having the card only half seated. Also
    it seems to be better if I end the fiddling by applying a slight
    outward force on the card. Might I have a bad AGP socket? How would I verify this?

    Third, as long as I don't push the bus over 140, the computer either runs stably or not at all. Below 140 if I can get it to boot, then it will run stably for days. So it's an all or nothing thing. Above 140 fsb it will sometimes boot but run a bit unstably. The KT266 chipset isn't known for it's fondness of high fsb, so this isn't too surprising. But it strikes me as odd that below 140 it's all or nothing. I would have expected instability to creep up gradually (as it does above 140).

    Fourth, if I'm running stably at 900 or more and I mess with the motherboard (take off the heatsink for instance) it will stop booting until I reseat everything again. Once I even had to reseat the extra USB ports to get it to boot.

    I've only got a 250watt PSU (brand is ENHANCE), but I get these same results even with all the drives and extra fans disconnected. Also my 5v rail *never* drops below 4.92, most of the time it sits at 4.95 on a full load. I've checked by running MBM on a 1 sec interval for several days of folding. In fact it's been running on full load for three days now and MBM shows a low voltage of 4.95. But it does sometimes dip to 4.92.

    I've successfully run the CPU at 1006 for several hours. (This
    required finding just the right combination and then several
    attempts at juggling the Video Card just right.) At that point I decided to reboot just to check for consistency. It wouldn't
    reboot when I tried and I didn't have the time to futz with it
    right then. So the CPU seems capable of higher speeds.

    I've tried using a different Video Card with similar results. I
    didn't spend a lot of time, but just switching cards didn't make
    things better. However, the card I switched with was an Asus
    V7100 MX, very similar to my normal card.

    I've got generic ddr. It's actually Micron sold as generic. I'm
    guessing that it's not nearly as good as Crucial. I've reseated it
    multiple times, just to make sure there wasn't a problem that way.

    I've tried upping the vcore and ddr voltage to the max the mobo
    allows without a mod (1.85 and 2.7 respectively) This helps some, but not a lot.

    For the record my full load cpu temp is running about 116F (47C), but as I've said, I'm pretty sure this isn't a temp problem because it's not even getting to POST.

    Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. Any ideas or
    questions?

    At this point I'm inclined to think that the motherboard is
    faulty. But I'd like some opinions before I go the RMA route only
    to be told that the mobo is fine and I need to pay shipping. In addition to the stuff in my sig, I've got a cdr, an ancient cdrom, a Linksys NIC, and 256meg of ddr.

    nihili
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
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  2. #2
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    I know this was a long one. But I'm hoping someone has the patience to get through it and give me some feedback. So, BUMP.

    nihili
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
    - John Stuart Mill On Liberty -


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  3. #3
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    One more bump for the morning crew, then I guess I'll have to do the short version.

    nihili
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
    - John Stuart Mill On Liberty -


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  4. #4
    Member [OC]Lucifer's Avatar
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    Wink Could it be...

    Im more of a newbie than you are, so bear with me if my suggestion is way off... but.. What is your AGP running at? Maybe at the speed you are trying to run, you are running your agp card beyond its max speed. Just a thought.
    Lucifer
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  5. #5
    Member [OC]Lucifer's Avatar
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    Wink By the by...

    To test if your AGP is bad or not, try putting in a 3d PCI card of some sort and running a game. If it pukes, the problem is somewhere else.
    Phenom II x4 955 @ 3.7, 4gb OCZ ddr3 1333 @ 1800, Asus m4a785td-v evo, Geforce GTS 250, Intel 40G SSD, RaptorX 150gb 10k rpm, Custom test bench case, Sony DVD-R, Corsair 750W

  6. #6
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    Unfortunately I don't have a PCI video card handy. But this behavior happens even when my fsb speeds are 100 and 133, so at that point my AGP should be within specs unless my mobo is bad.

    nihili
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
    - John Stuart Mill On Liberty -


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  7. #7
    Member [OC]Lucifer's Avatar
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    Talking Could be..

    Sounds like a bad AGP slot then. Id try RMAing the board.
    Phenom II x4 955 @ 3.7, 4gb OCZ ddr3 1333 @ 1800, Asus m4a785td-v evo, Geforce GTS 250, Intel 40G SSD, RaptorX 150gb 10k rpm, Custom test bench case, Sony DVD-R, Corsair 750W

  8. #8
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    That's my thought at this stage. I like your idea about trying a PCI card to verify. I think best buy may have some cheap ones. ANd they have a great return policy.

    nihili
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
    - John Stuart Mill On Liberty -


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  9. #9
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    Argh!

    Well it's not the AGP slot. I just tried it with an ATI Xpert 128 in the PCI slot and got the same results. I did get a couple of different beeps though. Here's what happened.

    Put in the ATI, start moving the multiplier up with a 133 bus speed. At 7x I get the "can't find video card" beep. So I power it down with the PSU button, reboot and everything works fine. I move it to 7.5x and then I get the ram error beep.

    So I cut back to 100 fsb. At 9x I get the can't find video card error, followed by a hi-lo sound with a bit of a buzz to it. (I've heard that one before.) But I can get past that by using the power button on the PSU to cut the power. At 9.5x I get the video error followed by a fast repeating dee-dee-dee-dee sound. Just one short beep right after the other forever. (I've never heard that beep pattern when using the AGP card.) I can't get past that with the power button trick.

    So without changin setting I swap the PCI card for the AGP. Now I get the video error beep followed by the hi-lo buzz. Still can't get past it.

    Ok, so now I'm back with the AGP sitting at my nice safe 6.5x133=869 mhz.

    The next two weakest links are my ddr and my psu. Anybody have a clue what's wrong?

    nihili

    So I leave all the setting alone and p
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Doctor's Avatar
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    Question ?????

    Hi nihili,

    I will have to say that it sounds either video/ AGP related, or possibly in the bios. Can you get it to boot consistantly with the bios with default settings, ie, after a CMOS clear? have you tried setting the AGP to 1X, and no fast-writes? Are you using the S907 bios? The earlier bios's have a default memory timing of 1T, which will mess with all but the best memory at higher FSB speeds.

    Oh, and one more thing, Once I was having major video card problems, only to find that there was a piece of shipping "popcorn" in the AGP slot preventing the board from making consistant contact. When the board was warm, all was OK, but at first, cold boot, it was finicky.

    Lemme no,

    Doctor

  11. #11
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    It boots fine after a bios setting at the defaults and all the way up to just under 900mhz. I only change the vcore, multiplier, fsb, and ram voltage. The kicker seems to be the mhz of the processor, it doesn't care about the fsb. It's just as happy at 6x150 as it is at 9x100, at least as far as booting goes. I do get a bit of instability running up at fsb of 150, but it boots like a champ.

    I've tried two different AGP cards and one PCI video card all with the same results. I was thinking video also until the PCI card did the same thing. One problem with the video theory is that should depend primarily on the fsb rather than on the total mhz of the processor.

    The two pieces of information that seem important to me, but that i can't make sense of are 1) that it is primarily dependent on the mhz, and 2) that at least initially I can get past the problem by power cycling the PSU. It would probably be helpful if I could track down those extra beeps that it's making.

    I'm using the 20e bios (newer than the 907), fast writes disabled, I've tried a 1x AGP, my memory is at 2T (though it worked fine at 1T efore i upgrade the bios).

    Hmmm, I like the popcorn theory. This is my first diy computer, is there a chance that I somehow have a bit of ground through the stand offs that's causing problems at boot? I think I'll tear the sucker apart and put it back together. It cant hurt.

    Thanks for the input. All ideas and questions welcome.

    nihili
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  12. #12
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    Hmmm, one other tidbit I just remembered. If I fool around with the heatsink, adjusting the duct and that sort of thing, it often won't boot right after. I have to reseat a bunch of things to get it to boot even at the defaults. One time I had to reseat the extra USB ports. Hmmmmm, solder void on the socket?

    *gets out the tools*



    nihili
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
    - John Stuart Mill On Liberty -


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    Q6600 / Abit IX38QuadGT / EVGA 8800GTS(G92)512

  13. #13
    Senior Member Doctor's Avatar
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    Post Beep-Beep.......

    MY AK31 will do the same thing if I REALLY crank it up to the point of no-POST. I have to unplug it, and reboot.

    Anyway, here's some "beep" codes for you. Our mobo's have the "Phoenix" bios, which was bought by Award, I believe:

    BIOS Beep Sound core list

    AWARD BIOS
    Beep Sound Message
    1 short(Beep) System booting is normally.
    2 short(Beep) CMOS setting error
    1 long - 1 short(Beep) DRAM ERROR
    1 long - 2 short(Beep) Display card or monitor connected error
    1 long - 3 short(Beep) Keyboard Error
    1 long - 9 short(Beep) ROM Error
    Long(Beep) continuous DRAM hasn't inset correctly.
    Short(Beep) continuous POWER supply has problem.

    AMI BIOS
    1 short(Beep) DRAM Flash Error
    2 short(Beep) DRAM ECC Check Error
    3 short(Beep) DRAM Detect Fail
    5 short(Beep) CPU Error
    6 short(Beep) Keyboard Error
    8 short(Beep) Display card memory Error
    9 short(Beep) ROM Error
    1 long - 3 short(Beep) DRAM Damage
    1 long - 8 short(Beep) Display card or monitor connected error


    Lemme no how you make out!

    Doctor

  14. #14
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    Thanks for the codes. The one I normally get is the video card error. I also often get the long repeating beep dram error. I got the short repeating beep which looks like a PSU problem only when I used the PCI video card. I also get a beep that isn't on the list. Right after the video error (long short short) I get a high-low sounds that's a little buzzy. I remember seeing somewhere about a hi-lo siren that meant some kind of error. Any idea what that might be?

    nihili

    One other idea. I notice that the video beep says it's either card or monitor problem. I'm using an old apple 17 inch that requires an adapter to get the right connector. Could *that* be the problem? I'll try a different monitor after I get this thing put back together.
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Doctor's Avatar
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    Question

    An Apple monitor on a Windoze machine?????


    Oooooooooooh, now your playing with fire!

    Just kidding, my friend owns a monitor refurbishing company, and is constantly plugging, and unplugging monitors, LIVE from the same test computer. No problem. I'm not saying that maybe it could be a problem, in your case, but he does it all the time. It could be a bad adapter, as well?

    Doctor

  16. #16
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    More data.

    I didn't have it completely apart yet, so I put the other monitor on with just the video card and keyboard attached. At 7.5x133 I got the video error beeps followed by the PSU error beeps (first time with an AGP card). So I tried it at 100 fsb. It was fine at 9x, but at 9.5x I get black screen. No beeps, just everything powers up and the monitor doesn't so much as flicker.

    So now I'm thinking PSU? Should I run over to BestBuy and grab a 300W Antec that I noticed they have?

    nihili
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Doctor's Avatar
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    Absolutly! You will always have your 250W one as a backup. I'm not saying that it will solve your problems, but if you can afford it, you can't go wrong. These AMD's like the juice, and Antec makes a fine one. I have the Antec-431. It runs a Geforce III, 5 other cards, a 1764mhz processor, and a VapoChill, without a burp.

    You will always be able to use it in a future upgraded computer, and throw your old one into somthing you sell.........

    Just my .02

    Doctor

  18. #18
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    Well the tear down and rebuild didn't change anything. I'm now reliably getting the PSU error beeps at 9.5x100. So I'm guessing it's PSU. ANyway. BestBuy carries Antec so I'll go get one of those and try it. I can always return it if it doesn't fix it. I was sort of leaning towards the Enermax, but I get impatient when I get into something like this.

    I'm off to BB. more later.

    nihili
    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
    - John Stuart Mill On Liberty -


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  19. #19
    Senior Member shadowdr's Avatar
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    seems you got a plan to go with,my first thought was psu or a metal shaving stuck somewhere it shouldnt be.i would check that out while your installing the psu and check out the atx connector with a magnifying glass as well as the ram slots.i have the spectec micron ram as well and i hate to say it runs as good as the crucial even though it is cl3 so i dont beleive that the ram is part of the problem.i have started using paper washers for the mounting studs as one member suggested for a no problem install.i am pretty sure you will find it is a power current problem,mebey even dust in the cpu socket.i will check back later to find out the problem.good luck
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  20. #20
    Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod nihili's Avatar
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    Ok, brand new Antec 300W psu, no change. It still won't post at 100x9.5. I get the long short short beep that means video problems, followed by the fast repeating beep which apparently means power supply. *sigh*

    I already had the mother board out and went over the whole thing looking for void and other such stuffs. Didn't find anything. Next step sounds like it ought to be checking the socket for dust, though I have to admit that sounds like a long shot.

    Other ideas?

    nihili

    "He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that"
    - John Stuart Mill On Liberty -


    Dell Precision M90

    Q6600 / Abit IX38QuadGT / EVGA 8800GTS(G92)512

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