So i was in DFI's new irc support and ....

Well, maybe you'll see our side when DFI treats you like that too.

Meathead said:

Well, maybe you'll see our side when DFI treats you like that too.

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If this is directed to me then you need to reread my posts because I am in no way defending DFI-STREETS actions towards you or anyone else. I understand your situation and it sux and I would be ****ed also if I was railroaded. I simply stated the truth about 3 people I mentioned and like I said I got more help and useful info here on these forums and on Xtrme forums than I ever could there... One time I had a bios problem and I went to thunda, he hooked me up.

nah i was lazy and didn't quote I meant soundx but you posted right before me

Meathead said:

nah i was lazy and didn't quote I meant soundx but you posted right before me

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cool

well at least mushkin is making an effort, I would be all over the phone with DFI if I were you.

Hello Soundx and Welcome to the forums!

I gather from your post(s) that you are a very reasonable and balanced individual. However, as always, there can be no smoke without a fire.
I don't know how things are run at DFI-Street, but we, here at OCForums believe that "The N00b is king". Now, please bear in mind that this forum covers every concievable nook and cranny of the overclocking landscape. Every question is answered with a minimum of fuss and a harsh tone is not tolerated. DFI-Street is a support forum dedicated to serve its customers. One would imagine that their model would be something we all could look up to.

After all, it doesn't take much to please the reasonable customer. The populace have taken offense to AG's rather unfriendly approach towards the whole support issue. He may be stressed out ar tired, but that does not lend to unplesantness.

This is a very valid gripe:

bnsinclair said:

One of the tech support's gripes was that I didn't have the minimum specified parts for the mobo. Specifically, he didn't like my RAM (admittedly, it is Geil value RAM) nor my PSU. First the RAM, no where, and I mean no where on DFI's site does it say that you need to spend $200 on great RAM to run the board. No disclaimer what so ever. And even if I do have value ram, shouldn't it work but not as well as other brands? A Porsche arguably has a better engine than a Kia, but that doesn't mean that putting regular gas in the Porsche means it won't run! I could understand if I was trying to OC my system on value ram - that would be wrong. But the system should be stable with all ram and work wonders on expensive ram. He also attacked my PSU, which was only rated at 430W. He ridiculed me for not having a 480W. My problem with that complaint is that DFI's own manual for the board says that the min is 400W - so building it the way that I did was spec. Nonetheless, his answer to my every question was that he wouldn't help me until I brought my system into his level of "spec". What a friggin' joke. Thanks pal.

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Again, quoted for emphasis:

Get a DFI board and learn what you can on your own. I use DFI exclusivly and yet wouldn't listen to a single word AG says. First thing that tipped me off is that I supposedlly need a 500w PSU (OCZ ... hint hint) regardless that my whole rig (now a dual-core) only draws 150-200w (measured via Kill-a-Watt) and memory on their list (there's some collaboration between them and OCZ... which I have as well.) So... as much as I like their gear, I don't trust them and nor should anyone.

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I didn't like DFI Staff pushing for OCZ PSU's as well. We all know that if an OCZ PSU blew up, it was used in conjunction with a DFI-board. Why not push for a Fortron Bluestorm AX-500A? Have any of you ever heard of a Bluestorm blowing up?

deception'' :
Yes, a few people here have expressed their frustration in a manner frowned upon, but it does not negate the spirit of the argument. The crux of the matter, as was pointed out earlier is with the unprofessional behaviour exhibited by a few staff members on DFI-Street.
This is outrageous from a both a business perspective, it goes against the whole philosophy of "Customer is King""

deception'' said:

Having said this, why should AG pay attention to the complaints of the few when the majority have no issue? My whole point is that (a) there are better ways to get ones point across and (b) all this fussing and whining is literally falling on deaf ears.

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This fussing and whining you speak of occurs largely due to the feedback the customer recieves from the rep. A clear conscise, yet friendly reply would do wonders. Although many avenues are available for help, people would rather visit an "OFFICIAL FORUM". So your argument of "if you don't like it...don't visit" is quite unhelpful. Some people buy DFI products because they expect on-demand support among other things. To tell them they are in safe hands and then proceed to flame them as being stupid, is a terrible thing to do!

I gather you have not seen the ss of the chat transcript. Unbelievably shocking, to say the least.

Edit*
Reefa:
Do you see any differences betwixt the BP BH and the non-BP BH? Could you run these tests:-
1.Clock scaling with voltage (fixed timings).
2.Lowest POST voltage required.
3. tREF and Drive strength values required to max out their performance.

I would like to sort out CPU leaning timings, from Memory specific timings among sticks with the same IC. Your results may help adding to what I see.

Although I have tried talking to DFI and they've told me its the ram and won't see it anyother way, I'm also not letting mushkin off the hook that easily because they do recommend the DFI board to work fine and one of their phone reps said he could guarantee me cold-boot issue free sticks of redline. We'll see how that works out. Forum support and from what I've read elsewhere says this is not possible considering its the mobo's fault but phone support won't have it any other way. I've asked if I can trade-in my sticks for the 2gb set and even pay the difference or even just get a small discount or trade for their tccd but since I didn't buy my redlines directly from mushkin, this is not possible. I'm quite lost on what to do but I have a lady on phone support doing everything she can at mushkin and zebbo is doing the same. Hopefully, I can get this resolved and finally enjoy my computer for one day without headaches.

Thank you for the welcome as well Super Nade!
(Actually, many refer to me as unbalanced often)

I certainly do not believe I made light of bnsinclair's issues or Meathead's problems. I took issue with the comments that the df-street forum was worthless. It is not, and that statement demeans every one of us that attempts to help others at the forum.

I must say that Meathead's accusations a) I am Angry_Games, b) that I am deceiving people with my statement that my memory is working across my boards c) that I am parroting AG, as well as his continued "one-liners" after I post is hardly friendly. He has definate issues with Angry and it appears with me as well. As I stated, I have never been on IRC, I do not know Angry Games personally, and I am merely defending what I think is a very good support forum.

I heartedly agree with you that those with issues should be served. I will always try to do my best to help. As will most members of the dfi-street forum.

I don't think the issue is with the Forum or its members, but it is with some of their Staff members.

First off let me say that this is my first post here and it seems a more relaxed place than the "street" for one...

Secondly, I have also have issues with AG and some of the other so called "Mods" on DFI Street..

I had a small issue of my PC not booting (just before logon for windows it hung with a black screen) when my Joypad was plugged in, after I upgraded the BIOS. Everyone jumped on me saying it was my PSU.. In fact AG said and I quote:

his psu doesnt meet minimum specs

if you guys take time to read the CRITICAL sticky threads, you'd try to make sure you have the right parts to even meet minimum specs

I can tell you that the psu that came with his case is not meeting minimum specs without even getting an exact part#


that doesn't solve the issue of why 6/23 does not work and 3/10 does...but when you break the rule of:

only update your bios if the bios you are updating to fixes a specific issue that you are having

then you take your chances...everything works in 3/10 bios...but not with 6/23 bios....therefore you stick with a working bios.

there are about 20 different bioses floating around for this board...im using the 7/04-2BT bios on my NF4 Lanparties right now (never liked 6/23 myself)

I never had issues with USB devices plugged in when testing the 6/23-3 and 6/23-2 bios versions. I tried with digital camera, usb memory stick, usb2.0 hdd, usb gamepad, usb bluetooth device.

Do a search around the forums and google for the 6/23 bios causing these usb issues...you might find a hit with someone that had the exact issue you did and solved it, or you might be the only one having this issue.

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So that helped me lots. He used his ESP and his god like abilites to know that my PSU was the issue without even ASKING me the part, or anything..The PSU is nothing special its a 480w that came with the case. I AM after replacing it, but I just dont have the spare 100+ bucks I need for a really good one right now. But support like that was just retarded. After it clearly states on the motherboard manual and DFI website that it requires a 400W or more PSU to run. The rule was put into place due to users haveing issues, but that does not mean that EVERY user will have issues not using the DFI_Street so called A-List

As a result I got angry with AG and eXRoadie as he stepped into the fray both saying it was my PSU and they werent going to support me unless I got a PSU from the A-List..

As it happens it wasnt the PSU it was my windows install (which I had just done beforehandd, but it seems it was something to do with nLite intgration of Nforce drivers that screwed it all up). Now my PC has been running fine since and happily since the re-install. No thanks to the so-called support from AG and his cronies...

That was my final post in the support area of DFI-Street I now just lurk in the off topic sometimes as there are some good guys on there and there are some good things said. Sound98x is one of those good guys, but really to be honest as a support forum that represents the company (and it does regarless of arguments) I do not hold it in high esteem as apart from RGone, the so-called DFI employed lackeys in there are of no use whatsoever.. I get better help from the users of the boards, but you still get Angry or ExRoadie harping on in the thread which completely ruins the support and they close threads all the time..

Have you also noticed that if anyone on DFI-Street even so much as hints to stuff being said about AG on this board that the post dissapear..... Maybe the truth hurts too much.

I don't really think DFI street is worthless. But have you ever heard the saying "one person can ruin it for the rest" ? I own't deny that I have gotten help and some of the other mod's were quick to give me suggestions but I needed serious help from someone who new the DFI board very well and could give me good advice and I thought Angry_Games could be that person. I didn't accuse you of being angry games because you were defending DFI. I merely stated its a posibility because you said some EXACT copies of what angry games told me. Especially about the bh-5 ram working.

Hello mate and Welcome to the Forums!

First off, a PSU should not be compromised upon. I would gladly spend the extra $'s to get a good PSU. Now,you can pick a PSU from the B List, i.e the Fortron Bluestorm AX-500A (in my sig). You should be able to pick it up for about $80. The reason those guys are harping on a nice PSU is because this board has shown a large degree of inconsistent behaviour when overclocked, if the PSU is not good enough.

This is true with any board. You are asking for trouble if you use a crap PSU. Another aspect is the name brand following. The reason people recommend established companies over non-established ones is simple...long term reliability.

A Fortron is less likely to blow up than a no-name brand with the same specs. That, in essense what what he and ExRoadie were trying to get across, which I hope you understand, is a very fair argument. Ex-Roadie is a very knowledgable guy and usually has his facts spot on.

Ofcourse, there is always ocforums if you need any help

S-N

AG is very knowlegable about DFI and overclocking in general. He shows very poor social skills though. I try not to interact with him but sometimes he comes crashing in with both feet and suffers anyone he considers a fool (n00bs, Differant POVs) poorly. You have no business treating customers like that even if they didn't read all the stickies and do extensive searching on the site before posting. He can say the same reminders and pointers he needs to say, but in a kinder more positive way. Also the only good reason to delete a post or thread is if it is getting out of control with flaming or runs totally off topic, not just because AG doesn't agree with the POV of the content. He often comes off like an arrogant elitest even if he's not one in real life.

DFI-Street is a very useful site if you can read stickies and run searches on the terms you are looking for. I will go back there and participate in a cival manner until someone bans me. I've found the most help here at OCForums though. Sometimes a differnat POV is the kind of 'Out of the box' thinking that results in the real answer however unlikely it seems at first.

He is knowlegable but doesn't share much with "stupid idiot n00bs". They can just go and get up to speed through the stickies and seach for old posts before bothering him or his forum. At least that's my impression based on what I've seen of his posts and stickies. Good info but with that attitude.

Audioaficionado said:

He is knowlegable but doesn't share much with "stupid idiot n00bs". They can just go and get up to speed through the stickies and seach for old posts before bothering him or his forum. At least that's my impression based on what I've seen of his posts and stickies. Good info but with that attitude.

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Exactly. It's people like HIM that ruin that board and give it the bad reputation it has. I've been there and I think I may have registered a while back and posted once or twice, but I'll never go back. He's just an uncouth, obnoxious dork with a littl-man's complex. He usurps his moderating powers and acts like he is a god. In reality, he's probably someone with little/no friends who got picked on in high school, and this is now his time for "revenge".

There are alot of nice, friendly forums out there, this one being probably the nicest, and there is just no room for people like him in our community. Period.

AG is higher than a moderator. He's now an adminstrator. Admins tell the mods what policies to follow and enforce. The only ones telling him what to do are the DFI corporate bosses.

It's funny how some people often get aggressive towards others online, while they would be much more civil in a face to face meeting.

Anyway, 'nuff said about AG and his ways...

Super Nade said:

Hello mate and Welcome to the Forums!

First off, a PSU should not be compromised upon. I would gladly spend the extra $'s to get a good PSU. Now,you can pick a PSU from the B List, i.e the Fortron Bluestorm AX-500A (in my sig). You should be able to pick it up for about $80. The reason those guys are harping on a nice PSU is because this board has shown a large degree of inconsistent behaviour when overclocked, if the PSU is not good enough.

This is true with any board. You are asking for trouble if you use a crap PSU. Another aspect is the name brand following. The reason people recommend established companies over non-established ones is simple...long term reliability.

A Fortron is less likely to blow up than a no-name brand with the same specs. That, in essense what what he and ExRoadie were trying to get across, which I hope you understand, is a very fair argument. Ex-Roadie is a very knowledgable guy and usually has his facts spot on.

Ofcourse, there is always ocforums if you need any help

S-N

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Thankyou for the welcome

The fact I was trying to make is that yes I know I do need a new PSU (But I just dont have the money right now to spend on it due to other real-life stuff getting in the way, Cars breaking, paying for filing papers at INS, etc etc). The fact is that he instantly knew that the PSU was the problem and basicly I wouldnt get anymore support from DFI employed staff becasue of it... As I said as it turned out it WASNT the PSU, it was my install of Windows. A more friendly response of "I will try to help you, but you really ought to consider replacing the PSU, but lets go through the problems and try to sort this out" would have been much more appropiate.

Anyway like I said I dont frequent the "support" areas now, as I consider it a waste of time, and really as a customer looking at Angry representing DFI, I doubt that when I come to upgrade again, that DFI will be my board of choice just for that fact. I used to be an Abit guy thru adn thru, and really tbh, Abit is probably going to be my next board.

I work for a Cellphone company here in the US and I repair phones. I try my best to go out of the way for the customer if he has issues, be it try to reduce prices on parts by using spares instead of new, or whatever.. If I treated any of the customers they way Angry does then I quite frankly would be out of a job for bad representation of the company I work for, and it should be no diffrent for him either...

Anyway thats enough said about Angry, coz it makes me angry (groan... ban pun)..

Super Nade said:

A Fortron is less likely to blow up than a no-name brand with the same specs.

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i second super-nade on the bluestorm, great power supply!

sorry to steer this off-topic, please feel free to steer it back.

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30772

Just a lil bump to this thread

Anyone snag the good stickies over there just in case AG pulls the plug. He is the site owner, not DFI, so he can pretty well do as he pleases at DFI-Steet.

I'd hate to see the site go down for the count but I'm sure DFI could help set up a new one if AG kills DFI-Street. We also have more than a few people here who know DFI boards inside and out.

jack_dfi said:

In order to deliver a better service through DFI-street.com, we will make some function change from now on.

Robert Smith aka Rgone will become the main moderator in this forum, and Travis Hill aka Angry game will be focusing on other directions such as instructional video, OC Database, and other good new functions catering to our users to provide them with even more help and information. We still welcome your comment and advice to both of them.

In addition, we will re-open the "Ask DFI" section.

Please use it to let us know if there is anything we need to improve.

This section will be reviewed by DFI management regularly.

Thank you,
Jacky

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i guess things r changing