X2 3800 Manchester/Toledo

renegade44 · Dec 14, 2005

Blkout said:
Well, my X2 3800 Manchester runs 2700MHz so far at 1.5625v stable, and I'm finding that some people's definition of stable isn't the same as mine. I know many people that loop 3DMARK2001 or Super_Pi or Dual Prime, but I've found that even those benchmarks don't stress the total system as much as playing a PC game called Guild Wars. I have found that my CPU can run higher than 2700MHz in all of the above listed tests for hours or even overnight which is the standard for most overclockers but will fail in Guild Wars after an hour or two or worst case, overnight running. I know dual prime's will hit the CPU directly harder than GW since you will see 100% CPU usage under dual prime and less than that playing GW, BUT, running dual primes don't always paint the total picture of how well your memory and CPU are working together under extreme conditions. I know you might say, well we're not testing memory, just CPU overclocks, and this is true, but you have to understand that sometimes a CPU is capable of pure number crunching in prime but when that CPU is forced to access the memory heavily also, it may not be completely stable due to the instability in the memory controller within the CPU at a given voltage and speed.

Its hard to get an accurate picture of everyone's results when everyone seems to use different standards for calling their CPU "completely stable". I encourage anyone to test their "stable CPU" using Guild Wars, of course you can't give a screenshot showing if its stable or not at a set speed or voltage after a given amount of time playing, but if your honest with yourself about whether or not your system is completely stable even if you don't play GW, then you'll at least know what your system is capable of under extreme conditions.

Hope all this makes sense, I know someone will cry foul because they "think" their system is 100% stable using all the standard benchmarks, but I'm here to tell you that, you might be fooling yourself as well as others by making a claim like this when a PC game could cause your "100% stable" system to crash when using it for something you actually enjoy doing rather than benchmarking all day.

Is it the CPU that is unstable or the game?

some food for thought.

Blkout · Dec 14, 2005

Yep, which only proves guys that while benchmarks like Prime, Super_Pi, Memtest86, and 3DMARK2001 are a good starting point, nothing really shows ultimate stability like real world apps. I've found Super_Pi to be very good at catching memory errors, much better than Memtest.

Memtest has gotten to be a real joke for me, I can get my memory to pass at well over 300MHz overnight looping tests and specific tests yet only boot into Windows at the same given memory voltage and settings, minus the reduced speed, at 275MHz or so. Memtest means jack squat to me nowadays. I can make any stick of memory look impressive in Memtest but if you can't boot into Windows or run any program without crashing, what's the purpose? I know some people like to think that if it will pass Memtest, you reduce the risk of corrupting the HD when booting into Windows, and while this may be somewhat partially true in some cases, I have seen memory pass Memtest with flying colors and then corrupt the hard drive booting into Windows right after so nothing was really accomplished. I used to have some faith in Memtest but I've seen too many times that it really doesn't do a great job of actually checking memory stability in a real world situation.

Blkout · Dec 14, 2005

renegade44 said:
Is it the CPU that is unstable or the game?

some food for thought.

Without a doubt it would be the system, the game is one of the least flawed I've ever seen as far as stability, if in doubt return your rig to stock and run GW, it should pass all day long without a problem and if it doesn't you do have serious hardware problems.

No food for thought here, got 4 months tied up in this game to know that its a remarkably stable piece of software, its your hardware that causes failures. It has a built in check to let you know if your hardware is causing problems and will often give you a message when it crashes telling you what went wrong, might be something to the effect of "blah blah blah memory failed while accessing blah blah blah".

Trust me, its an amazing piece of software for testing stability, and it just happens to be a damn fun game too.

djtroy · Dec 14, 2005

I have mine set at 270x10 and my ram is at ddr333 at 2.5-3-2-5 1T. I am not sure if its ok to run htt3x or 4x. This is one setting im not sure of will it be ok to run this at 4x or will that make the FSB too high and not be safe. Can this cause damage is I change it to htt4x and also how high can I go on the voltage? I have cool and quite enabled so the voltage goes up and down depending on the load. Also how do I get more out of my ram its at 220mhz right now.

Blkout · Dec 14, 2005

djtroy said:
I have mine set at 270x10 and my ram is at ddr333 at 2.5-3-2-5 1T. I am not sure if its ok to run htt3x or 4x. This is one setting im not sure of will it be ok to run this at 4x or will that make the FSB too high and not be safe. Can this cause damage is I change it to htt4x and also how high can I go on the voltage? I have cool and quite enabled so the voltage goes up and down depending on the load. Also how do I get more out of my ram its at 220mhz right now.

You might as well change it to 3x since it won't make any difference at all in performance betweeen 3x and 4x. 3x is pretty much the standard setting for most people when overclocking. I've run numerous tests at 3x and 4x and there is ZERO difference in performance.

Its also a well known fact that you should disable cool and quiet when overclocking, its not going to help your overclock that's for sure.

Getting more out of your memory means getting better memory, plain and simple.

djtroy · Dec 14, 2005

Blkout said:
You might as well change it to 3x since it won't make any difference at all in performance betweeen 3x and 4x. 3x is pretty much the standard setting for most people when overclocking. I've run numerous tests at 3x and 4x and there is ZERO difference in performance.

Its also a well known fact that you should disable cool and quiet when overclocking, its not going to help your overclock that's for sure.

Getting more out of your memory means getting better memory, plain and simple.

I think I was enabaling the cool and quite so that when the PC was running idle or not having too many tasks to do it would use less volts and in turn keep my cpu cooler. Does using this feature slow down the performance of my PC?
As far as ram goes I called Corsair directly and asked them what the best ram for my MOBO was and told them money was no object. I think it would be tough for me to get "better ram" I paid $300 for 2 gigs. Im using the Corsair XMS Twinx 2048 3200c2 prro

Blkout · Dec 14, 2005

djtroy said:
I think I was enabaling the cool and quite so that when the PC was running idle or not having too many tasks to do it would use less volts and in turn keep my cpu cooler. Does using this feature slow down the performance of my PC?
As far as ram goes I called Corsair directly and asked them what the best ram for my MOBO was and told them money was no object. I think it would be tough for me to get "better ram" I paid $300 for 2 gigs. Im using the Corsair XMS Twinx 2048 3200c2 prro

Of course there are better 2GB kits, the Crucial Ballistix PC4000 and the Corsair PC4000, and OCZ has a PC4000 kit also I believe. All of these are designed to run faster than yours. What you have is low latency memory which doesn't mean as much on an Athlon 64 system as having more bandwidth from a higher memory speed. Your memory would be better on a P4 system.

Motley · Dec 14, 2005

I ordered mine from newegg, about 3 weeks ago. 3800+ x2 Toledo core @ 1.44 vcore. Smooth as silk at 2505MHz (10x250).

She's got more, but I need better cooling. I'm at 44C idle, 55C load.

Blkout · Dec 15, 2005

Motley said:
I ordered mine from newegg, about 3 weeks ago. 3800+ x2 Toledo core @ 1.44 vcore. Smooth as silk at 2505MHz (10x250).

She's got more, but I need better cooling. I'm at 44C idle, 55C load.

Indeed you do, mine runs at 32c idle, and 38c load with water at 2.7GHz.

voodoothenoob · Dec 15, 2005

here is an older screenie running on a divider

i run 250 x 10 for everyday use as I couldnt tell the difference between 2.75 and 2.5 to be honest with ya

here is daily settings

deathman20 · Dec 15, 2005

voodoothenoob: Why do you run the same volts for both clocks? I'm sure if 2.75 is stable at that you can definatly use less volts for 2.55...

I know I can run @ 2.7Ghz with mine @ 1.4 * 110%, but right now I've decided to run 2.6Ghz with 1.325 * 110% which I know already is more volts then it needs to run here.

Just curious thats all, but some nice scores, wish my old X2-3800 did that.

Rattle · Dec 15, 2005

nice !!

so far my x2 3800 does 2.6 on 1.5v and 2.35 on stock volts.

both prime stable

everynight i push her further on stock volts and during the day yesterday I primed for 8 hours at 2.6.

Not a bad clocker at all.

Even at stock though this X2 is much faster than my 146 opteron was at 3.0 !!

People that say dual cores dont make a difference are on crack, windows is faster, games are faster, everything is faster !

ziggo0 · Dec 15, 2005

Rattle said:
People that say dual cores dont make a difference are on crack, windows is faster, games are faster, everything is faster !

That's Right

Rattle · Dec 15, 2005

ziggo0 said:
That's Right

Ya man, I get same FPS in FEAR with my whole rig stock now as I used to get with a single core at 2.8ghz average and my card maxed out !!!

Unreal

deathman20 · Dec 15, 2005

Rattle said:
People that say dual cores dont make a difference are on crack, windows is faster, games are faster, everything is faster !

LOL

But its true... Sorta like how hyperthreading helped P4 preformance also making things feel smooth, even though the HT part wasn't the best for calculations and such.

Rattle · Dec 15, 2005

I use my machine for basic multitasking, office type use and GAMING and multimedia this is much faster in everything, my opteron 146 at 3.0 did superPI 32m in 25min 27sec or somthing, this dually takes 30 minutes, but I dont sit here and run 32m all day so what do I care?

Your not allowed to talk about those evil P4's and AMD X2's in the same sentence are you

Avg · Dec 15, 2005

What program are you guys using to identify your core? I was using cpu-z which reported as a manchester, but then I ran the Coolest cpuid and the max case temp and both of them reported as a toledo, which has half of it's cache disabled, so then I asked him about it and he told me that cpu-z isn't able to differenctiate between a manchester and toledo with half of its cache disabled.

Anyway, my chip will do 2.8ghz with about 1.48v 1.52v still testing, but hopefully I'll get it to run stable at 1.5 or below, I can't go any higher because then my 12v rail drops very low to 11.71 and it hardlock or reboot under load, so I'll have to get a more powerful psu if I want to go higher, but for now i'm satisfied. I'll post pics once I get home.

Rattle · Dec 15, 2005

cpu-z will identify it as a machester no matter what I believe. the only way you can tell is by the code on the cpu.

mine says
ADA3800DAA5BV

the BV is manchester, if it says CD I believe its a toledo.

somone correct me if I'm wrong but i know BV is manchester for sure.

Blkout · Dec 15, 2005

Avg said:
What program are you guys using to identify your core? I was using cpu-z which reported as a manchester, but then I ran the Coolest cpuid and the max case temp and both of them reported as a toledo, which has half of it's cache disabled, so then I asked him about it and he told me that cpu-z isn't able to differenctiate between a manchester and toledo with half of its cache disabled.

Anyway, my chip will do 2.8ghz with about 1.48v 1.52v still testing, but hopefully I'll get it to run stable at 1.5 or below, I can't go any higher because then my 12v rail drops very low to 11.71 and it hardlock or reboot under load, so I'll have to get a more powerful psu if I want to go higher, but for now i'm satisfied. I'll post pics once I get home.

Not to call you a liar, but I most certainly question your stability at 2.8GHz at 1.48v. Once again, what one person calls stable, might crash or hard lock for someone else using a real world program.

voodoothenoob · Dec 15, 2005

I am down to 1.4 volts at 2.55

that screenie was when I was focused a different variable in my tweaking so vcore was still high

X2 3800 Manchester/Toledo

Member

Member

Member

Registered

Member

Registered

Member

Member

Member

Member

High Speed Premium Senior

Member

Member

Member

High Speed Premium Senior

Member

Senior Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads