Smoothwall gigabit router/firewall?

greenmaji · May 10, 2006

I would like to run gigabit in the house, from my understanding smoothwall can be used as a router as well as a firewall.

So the layout would be modem->smoothwall box-> gigibit switch-> out to PC's.

I would think that a mobo with dual gigibit conectors would be best for this (or a 100mbit card for internet (cable modem/dsl what have you) and a single gigibit to go out to the switch)
Any ideas on this?

And the new smoothwall is going to need a P3 or equivelent +.
Should I just get some used parts for this or overkill so I could undervolt/underclock so I can run passive?

Any ideas on a case that would make this look more like a network appliance (say a router.. lol) rather then a PC?

TIA for input

su root · May 10, 2006

Using a gigabit port for an internet connection is entirely unnecessary. 100Mbps or usually even 10mbps is plenty. I highly doubt your modem will even be gigabit-enabled.

You would only really need a gigabit NIC if you were doing file storage on your smoothwall, otherwise, a 100Mbps internal NIC should be plenty.

greenmaji · May 10, 2006

File server with Jumbo packets was the hope, but that would be after the switch, and I think your saying I wouldn't need the router/firewall box to be that fast right? Any help with that would be greatly appresiated

And yes I figured the connection for the internet (modem) didn't need gigabit, and your right its not gigabit inabled (just thinking outloud with that one. oops)
Thanks, su root

*edit*I think I got it.. before the switch the speed isnt going to matter because the internet connection is like 2mb/s TOPS so two nix ports of any speed will do.

so.. I guess my only question would be is there a atx/micro-atx case to make this thing small/look more like a network appliance? Ill post that in the cases section *duh on me* */edit*

*re-edit*Figured it out, Micro-ATX desktop cases look fine for the job :beer:

*/re-edit*

The_Jizzler · May 11, 2006

so su, youre saying that there is no benefit in a smoothie box from having gigabit ethernet? im aware on the "red" end itd be worthless, but what about for the green and orange nics. how about when transferring files from the orange to green or vice versa. im interested in this as well as i have a "download" computer sitting on my dmz. its synched up to a file server on the green via pinholes. would gigabit cards here not speed anything up? oh, almost forgot, i have a gigabit switch for the green, and the orange has a wrt54gs acting as a switch/AP.

coin · May 11, 2006

in any network, the slowest port/card will define the overall speed of a link.
For the internet side you are right that pretty much any card will do unless you're really lucky and have a plus 10Meg link (oh I can only wish)
For a simple Green/Red Smoothwall again it is not worth having anything over 100 for either card and even that will be overkill.
In the Green/Orange scenario then it will be the slowest card in the link defining the link speed, in this case the wrt54gs at 100? (if I remember rightly it doesn't have gigabit wired capability) If the file server is using wireless then even less reason to have gigabit cards in the Smoothwall.

greenmaji · May 11, 2006

@The_Jizzler. do you have the download computer hooked up to the gigibit switch? If so why not put the fileserver on it as well and up the MTU untill it doesnt like it anymore (9K packets is my goal)... maybe Im not understanding the layout right..

I'm planning on putting everything on the swich except a wireless access point if needed (could do that off the smoothwall box I would think) so that should be a non-issue. My only problem should be how big a MTU my equipment can handle from the swich on. (It would be nice if there was an application to test max MTU for the gigibit thats in a comp. in the house now)

su root · May 11, 2006

The_Jizzler said:
so su, youre saying that there is no benefit in a smoothie box from having gigabit ethernet? im aware on the "red" end itd be worthless, but what about for the green and orange nics. how about when transferring files from the orange to green or vice versa. im interested in this as well as i have a "download" computer sitting on my dmz. its synched up to a file server on the green via pinholes. would gigabit cards here not speed anything up? oh, almost forgot, i have a gigabit switch for the green, and the orange has a wrt54gs acting as a switch/AP.

As others have said:

Red - in most cases, anything 10Mbps or over will do. Arguably, you should put a 100Mbps NIC here, but you can get away with 10Mbps.

Single Internal NIC - If you only have one internal NIC, and you aren't using the fileserver function of shorewall, then I suggest 100Mbps, that's overkill for surfing the net.

Multiple Internal NICs - if you have more than one internal NIC, and you intend to transfer between them, then I suggest atleast 100Mbps, if the rest of your equipment is gigabit-ready, then you may want to consider gigabit (but if there's a 100Mbit switch anywhere along the path of the transfer then it won't help.

The_Jizzler · May 11, 2006

greenmaji said:
@The_Jizzler. do you have the download computer hooked up to the gigibit switch? If so why not put the fileserver on it as well and up the MTU untill it doesnt like it anymore (9K packets is my goal)... maybe Im not understanding the layout right..

I'm planning on putting everything on the swich except a wireless access point if needed (could do that off the smoothwall box I would think) so that should be a non-issue. My only problem should be how big a MTU my equipment can handle from the swich on. (It would be nice if there was an application to test max MTU for the gigibit thats in a comp. in the house now)

no, the download box stays on the orange side with any other things i may have connected that needs ports open regularly or is succeptible to roaming crackers, ie my wireless, webserver, etc. i do this so my green is clean and locked tight from the outside world, for the most part. file server is on the green side with 3 workstations via gigabit switch. id replace the wrt54gs, and smoothie nics if this will work.

greenmaji · May 12, 2006

@The_Jizzler.. It sounds like you could attempt to run Jumbo frames for your workstations and fileserver the way you have it hooked up now, and If you want to have Jumbo frame connectivity to your wireless and webserver say for the fileserver then using gigibit nics in the smoothwall box would make sence to me otherwise the Jumbo frames will be isolated by your smoothwall zones with your gigabit hardware replacement (say just the wrt54gs->gigibit switch only).

su root.. are you running jumbo frames?

greenmaji · May 12, 2006

btw.. anyone have any ideas on reasonable (price wise) hardware for a smoothwall router build? Maybe some older used stuff?

The_Jizzler · May 14, 2006

yea, well i bought stuff that can do jumbo frames when i was setting it all up. d-link nics and smc switch. i assumed it was just "on". is it something i need to turn on?

greenmaji · May 14, 2006

I'm not sure about the switch, I would assume that you could log into the switch to change network settings such as MTU; but for Windows machines you need to change the MTU in the registry (with regedit) unless the software that came with the nics alow you to alter the networking settings.
Every time I've installed windows it has had the hardware (the chip on the nic for processing packets) support turned off in the registry (windows assuming your nic doesn't have a chip) and packet size set for 1500 MTU/standard internet sized packets -the header
I've worked with Win98, WinME and Win2KPro (I havn't played much with the network settings in the registry with a WinXP machine yet)

The_Jizzler · May 15, 2006

ill check it out. thanks for the tip.

coin · May 15, 2006

check out the smoothwall website for hardware requirements, but to be honest anything above a PIII500 with 128MB of Ram and a 2Gb harddrive will do just fine

klingens · May 15, 2006

anything at ~100Mhz or better is enough for a Linux router. The more critical factor is memory. You want 64MB. Less is possible too, but the more the better.

The_Jizzler · May 15, 2006

^^ yup, mines an old 133 pentium and it works like a champ. although at times i do wonder if it could be a bit snappier, or if its just my isp.

greenmaji · May 16, 2006

My problem, no old hardware not in use

liunx has made the PIII 700Mhz based cellery in the house a web brousing champ and thats all my GF needs.

(I didn't get a competive girl, no gaming :shrug:

LOL)

Now I need to find some old hardware for this build (I guess Ill have to put up a WTB thread somewere :shrug:

)

And NP The_Jizzler on the tips.. Do you have some links for max MTU of networking equipment? Whats the max MTU of your nics and gig-switch, if you know?

The_Jizzler · May 16, 2006

to be honest im not sure. its just when i was shopping around i kept noticing peeps were mentioning "jumbo frames". so i researched a bit and discovered it can improve file transfer speeds. off to newegg to read some reviews, ad in the end i settled on this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833129013
except in a 5 port flavor instead of the 8, and these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833127134

maybe you know lol! anyway,... today i tried installing the gigabit into the smoothie with those dlink nics, and no-go. smoothwall doesent recognize them. i read the smoothwall forums for a bit and decided that while it was possible, maybe, im not screwin with it. seems to be a hassle. if you do go gig. read around and find out whatll work. probaly intel nics are the best bet.

greenmaji · May 17, 2006

You shouldnt need to use the nics in the smoothie but if you did host files or apps on it you could try compiling the driver for it

I guess when it comes to crunch time with this Ill do some more homework, I see a 3com nic that I like, but Im not sure if I want a managed, "smart", or unmanaged switch lol.

Smoothwall gigabit router/firewall?

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