Why don't people use alcohol instead of antifreeze?

a1cnolan said:

Hey has anyone ever tried just a drop of bleach in their water cooler? i mean literally 1 or 2 drops should be enough to kill anything in it.Would it hurt anything?

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I've thought about that too but I can't recall ever seeing it mentioned. Works very well for our camping water ...

Bleach has a higher ph (slippery = a base) and possibly corrosive to certain metals, I believe aluminum. It would kill bacteria but at what cost? When I worked at the blood lab we always used industrial type bleach to clean our desks and a gritty residue was always left over. Apparently I was the only one who noticed. It only happened after the desk was dry and all the residual bleach evaporated. Industrial bleach varies from 4-7% Sodium Hypochlorite by weight. Household bleach is <5% w/w. So A drop weighing say 40mg would be approx 2mg of hopefully not unsoluable particles (salt?).
I've always wondered about the chems in restaurant grade sanitizers for dishwashing. Most of it contains chlorides which I believe may also be corrosive. "Fantastik" has this same chem in it. It's antibacterial, but I don't know if this only refers to food-type bacteria (ie saminilla, e-coli, etc). Triclosan is the antibacterial in body soaps but I have no idea what the hell it is or what the real chemical name is.
There are certain phenols that restrict bacteria growth but It's hard to find what their corrosive properties are. I know they are cheap and easy to obtain. i would think that they have a chance of being relatively safe to metals but plastics... maybe not since lots of plastics can be attacked by phenols as they derive from them. I wish all plastics were as tough as delrin.

i dont use alchohol for a few reasons.

1. 2.5 gallon res. (costly)
2. open system (kaboom)
3. fumes (see #2)
4. its not that great for watercoling parts (those arent cheap either)

bleach is also an oxidant and will begin to tarnish/corrode/rust metals in contact with it for extended periods of time

Bleach is a very quick oxidizer as well so it wouldn't last very long. However, if it would turn into copper chloride then you'd still have some protection from bacteria and algae.

Sneaky said:

bleach is also an oxidant and will begin to tarnish/corrode/rust metals in contact with it for extended periods of time

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It takes ~3 drops of bleach/gal of water to disinfect - doubt you'll get much tarnish/corrosion from that ...

That's not really the issue. The issue is that once the bleach oxidized the metal you'd have to add more. Eventually it adds up.

Moto7451 said:

That's not really the issue. The issue is that once the bleach oxidized the metal you'd have to add more. Eventually it adds up.

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Good point, I wonder what the what it reduces to.

it reduces in number of electrons. Copper Chloride will be formed.

4NaOCL + 2Cu(II) -> 2CuCl2 + 2Na2O + O2

That is the reaction most likely. I may play around tomorrow with some bleach and some copper to find out the other resultants. Synthesizing Copper Chloride could be helpful in keeping bacteria at bay as it it poisonous to just about every living organism (good and bad point here) and its a pretty blue color in high concentrations.

Dip your cd into isopropyl and see what happens to it.

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Nothing really happens. CD cleaner is usually 99% Isopropyl alcohol. If you soaked a CD in iso for a period of time then you may see something but CDs aren't damaged just by casual contact with it.

I think that I'll set up some tests comparing how long it takes for samples of Acrylic and Lexan to be affected by 50% Isopropyl alcohol, 90+% isopropyl, ferric chloride (I'm etching some PCBs so why not?), and, as a control, distilled water.

Moto7451 said:

it reduces in number of electrons. Copper Chloride will be formed.

4NaOCL + 2Cu(II) -> 2CuCl2 + 2Na2O + O2

That is the reaction most likely. I may play around tomorrow with some bleach and some copper to find out the other resultants. Synthesizing Copper Chloride could be helpful in keeping bacteria at bay as it it poisonous to just about every living organism (good and bad point here) and its a pretty blue color in high concentrations.



Nothing really happens. CD cleaner is usually 99% Isopropyl alcohol. If you soaked a CD in iso for a period of time then you may see something but CDs aren't damaged just by casual contact with it.

I think that I'll set up some tests comparing how long it takes for samples of Acrylic and Lexan to be affected by 50% Isopropyl alcohol, 90+% isopropyl, ferric chloride (I'm etching some PCBs so why not?), and, as a control, distilled water.

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So I guess that would be Cupric Chloride and not Cuprous Chloride (CuCl). I've worked with Cupric chloride b4. It's cheap and easy to obtain. I know it's corrosive but (besides being pretty when hydrated). Just add a bit of Cucl2 to aluminim foil with a drop of water and you'll see a quick reaction that eat's the Al alive. That's an interesting point you bring up about it being a biocide. I wonder if it would cause damage to a loop (pump, etc). I mean, once it's in a solvent it shouldn't have any "abrasive" effects on moving parts. It most likely would turn the tubing blue/green. I doubt much more than a few milligrams would be needed. Copper is used in weed killers as Copper Pentahydrate.

Maybe they are making cd's out of different materials now because when I cleaned a cd the first time some 17 years ago with Isopropyl alcohol (of course I put way too much on it), it made the cd brittle and fall all apart. To this day I always thought that cd scratch repair contained iso because it's softening the polycarbonate similar to what auto polish would do on a car's clear-coat prior to buffing. I'm not sure what exactly clear sink faucets are made of, I'm assuming most are acrylic, once I accidentally spilled some 99% Isopropyl on it while santizing my hands and the faucet head develped cracks within a few days and fell apart.

Tygon tubes are resistant to ethanol.... but rubber o rings are NOT! (However there are metal barbs that just skip the o ring bit)

Who cares if ethanol cant absorb as much heat... it would just heat up faster... it will also cool faster in your rad..... and so the loop goes round and round. (In theory it will take away just as much heat from the CPU as water the only diff is the liquid is a couple of degres hoter)

Yep its volitile it evaporates fast and if you light a match this vapour will turn to fireworks..... THEN AGAIN who cares its in a closed loop its not like it will evaporate and cause an explosion....

Yes It will kill bacteria and mold like no tomorow.....

Yes its quite safe... millions of people around the world dink the stuff after a hard days work myself included!!

Yes its cheap! kinda like the price of petrol about 2.50 per litre (sigma chemicals 99.9% pure analytical grade ethanol).... which isnt bad because you only need 2-4 liters of the stuff.

Nope it does not corode the plastic res....

as i have myself and animals in the house i am concerned over toxicity and fool i think asked this question:It sounds like you need to use Propylene Glycol, aka RV watersystem antifreeze.
It doesn't evaporate as easily as alcohol or Ethylene Glycol, and it's non-poisonous...heck it's a food additive. It's in the twinkie you had for lunch.
i would like an answer to this would this work and how well.
"doc"

we have a sticky right here at the top of the water cooling forum discussing that.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=440287
Welcome.
please look around a bit.
theres a wealth of information around here.

I would just like to add that my everclear came in a GLASS bottle.

isn't everclear illegal in the states?

I used to use a small splash of bleach in my ~gallon bong which amounted to maybe 1oz per 128oz or 1 percent if you round up. all of the rubber seals in my pumps and tubing was fine, and it left my room smelling like spring and fresh cut grass

Pro*Banshee said:

isn't everclear illegal in the states?

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You can buy grain alcohol (190 proof) anywhere - it's commonly called everclear.
IIRC - "Moonshine" (home-made alcohol) is also legal as long as it's for personal consumption ...

Pro*Banshee said:

isn't everclear illegal in the states?

I used to use a small splash of bleach in my ~gallon bong which amounted to maybe 1oz per 128oz or 1 percent if you round up. all of the rubber seals in my pumps and tubing was fine, and it left my room smelling like spring and fresh cut grass

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only a gallon?
my rez was about two filled and about one empty- untill i took a hacksaw, a nipple and 2 couplings to it and made it about four. i couldnt stand filing mine twice a day.

and i NEVER put anything in my open loop that i wouldnt put in my body.

They Did a long time ago

My father told me how they used to mix alcohol in with the water during WW2 when he was a kid. The cooling systems were different, and you could run with the radiator cap off because it was not pressureized. He said that you always had to adjust the mixture. Too much alcohol and it would boil off at too low of temperature, too little and you didn't have freeze protection. If you ran a 170 degree thermostat, you had some room to adjust between 170 and 212. You had to keep an eye on the temperature guage, alcohol ran cooler, and when it boiled off you didn't have enough water so it would overheat, something like that. Of course there were no plastic, very little rubber parts, and no computer controls etc. It was all controlled by the thermostat and air flow through the radiator.Also engines were low compression, more so than today. One reason why they lasted so long. Of course alcohol is very flamible, and what boiled off was the alcohol, which made for more than a few auto fires. From what he said people were happy to get antifreeze.

Etanol/Mentanol got poor heat carrying properties, very poor if i am not mistaken..

Thats why people dont use it in a WC, among other things..

Ragnarok said:

Bear with me on this.

Running water alone in a system leads to a buildup of algae and related mono-cellular crud in your waterblocks. Ew.

Antifreeze kills, and I've found that people can smell an amazingly small amount of antifreeze. It's kind of cool at first (it kinda smells like silly putty) but there are reports on the forums of antifreeze giving people headaches... maybe on account of it being poisonous and all.

My watercooling system isn't hermetically sealed, so for me, ethyl glycol is not for the win, and let's say I don't want to buy water wetter. Why not alcohol?

Water has a thermal conductivity of 0.6 W/m*K. Alcohol is only 0.14, so a water/alcohol mix wouldn't cool as efficiently as a pure water mix.

My question is, does anybody do this? How much alcohol do you use?

Thanks.

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Been running 50% alcohol in my system for about a year now.

Keeps the loop nice and clean.

Ultimate factor of any cooling system is the ambient temps. So in my opinion, use w/e coolant you want. The difference in temps makes so little difference, you can make small adjustments with your thermostat.

Water and kill coil ect is fine. Won't cool better or worse than running alcohol really. That is myth really.