- Joined
- Jul 8, 2003
- Location
- Dallas, Tx
In the light of Core2Duo, it's been getting thick in here, and in many forums. I've decided to do a little write-up due to even myself being regarded as a fanboy for AMD.
If you were to ask me which I'd prefer, AMD or Intel, I would say AMD. Am I a fanboy for this? If you think so, then I'd consider you an Intel fanboy. I never said Intel Core2Duo was bad, nor have I talked down about it. In fact, if you do a search on my posts, you will see me saying that it is faster, consumes less power(if you don't include total system, meaning, the chipset), overclocks very well, and is reasonably priced. So then, why would I still prefer AMD? Well, read on.
First off, when I talk of AMD, the foundation of my discussion is AM2. Currently, as has been said, Core2Duo has better offerings than anything on AM2. But people seem to forget that AM2 was released solely as a platform for DDR2, and was never said to be anything more. And while yes, it is only fair to compare what is currently available, let's look at what we are comparing. AMD K8 architecture is over three years old, Intel Core2Duo is brand spanking new. K8 is 90nm , Core2Duo is 65nm. K8 is made on 200mm wafers, Core2Duo is made on 300mm wafers, along with many more fabs(this has to due with price). All this, and Core2Duo, on average, is 15% better than K8 AM2, and prices are within range of each other.
It is just as fair to compare what is out now to what will be out later. And that is where the meat of my decision is. By the end of the year, AMD will release 65nm cpu's made on 300mm wafers. Based on that alone, one can assume AMD will be dropping their prices due to higher production. One can also assume the power consumption will come down as well, to levels of Core2Duo, and with integrated memory controller. Remember now, we're still talking about K8. Now, will it be a dumb shrink, that's still up for debate. I personally think there will be AT LEAST a few improvements. And as when AMD went from 130nm to 90nm, I'm sure we'll see better overclocks, and better scaling. Also remember Dell, the largest pc distributor, is about to start selling AMD-based notebooks, desktops, and servers. This will add to the lowering of AMD's prices.
Now let's talk 4x4. While latest news has left me a little disappointed, I'm still optimistic, as this is what I really want. 4x4 offers the enthusiast two sockets for, from the start, two dual-cores. Later they will offer quad-cores. Why is this worth it over going s1207 Opteron? First, it will allow you to use unbuffered ram, which is generally cheaper, lower latency, and many more options. Second, there will be more options on motherboards. Most, if not all, enthusiast motherboard makers have given praise to the platform, and will be making boards. This means not only better competition for better prices, but also better overclocking potential. 4x4 is also good due to AMD's Direct Connect technology over Hypertransport(HT) lanes. This will allow the sharing of each cpu's cache and memory. This alone will improve games, which are generally gpu bottlenecked, add to that more processing power for background programs, and the fact games are becoming multi-threaded. Intel just dosn't, and can't for that matter, have anything to compare. This is due out by the end of the year as well. All these we are to assume will benefit s1207 Opterons as well.
Now let's talk K8L. K8L is supposed to be AMD's new architecture. Let's not get into what's considered new architecture, we all know both companies are really just improving on their P3 and K6 architectures. What we are considering are major jumps in technology. K8L will add another set of instructions, fpu, ipc improvements, more HT links, updated Direct Connect, shared L3, and many other things. While nothing can be set in stone, if you don't believe it won't AT LEAST compete with Core2Duo, then you really are an Intel fanboy. And remember, this less than one year after Core2Duo's release, not the three years we had to wait on Core2Duo after K8's release. K8L will be on socket AM2, and of course, 4x4. It is also going to be the architecture when socket AM3 releases. Any cpu released on AM3 will work on socket AM2, as has been stated by AMD. K8L will be native quad-core, and won't have the possibility of bottlenecking from front-side bus(FSB) due to it's integrated memory controller(IMC). Not to mention when you have two quad-cores on 4x4, or up to eight quad-cores on s1207 Opterons.
To me, as people ask what and when AMD will have something to compete with Intel Core2Duo, I ask what and when Intel will have to compete with K8L. Well, according to Intel, the when will be at least two years from now. Intel has stated they will release a 'new architecture' every two years. Well, good luck to you I say. And I do hope they produce to keep the competition strong. Both companies are stating 45nm by '08. This means you will see 45nm on AM2, since as has been said, any cpu for socket AM3 will work on AM2. It's also good to know that if you're on AM3, and socket AM4 comes out, AM4 cpu's will work on AM3, as has been stated by AMD. So, if A=B, and B=C, then A=C, in other words, AM4 should work on AM2. Of course, by the time AM4 comes out, we should all be about 3-4 years older. Could this change? Of course. In fact, I believe it will, as I don't see AMD not making the change to LGA for mainstream, if not something else.
Now let's talk about AMD's aquisition of ATI. What will this bring? Well, even I'm a little short on this subject. First off, AMD will now have it's own integrated video chipsets, made by the leader of integrated video chipset makers. You can bet they will connect to the cpu via some HT lanes, increasing bandwidth and reducing latency. You should see AMD surge in the laptop market due to this. Remember, more production means lower prices. It also means more money for R&D. Both companies have stated they will have integrated video controllers, meaning more bus lanes. But being ATI is the second largest distributor of video cards, expect them to get a great boost in developement and production, meaning better technology and lower prices respectively. You also better bet ATI cards will run better on AMD platforms than they will on Intel platforms. And wether or not Intel will renew their contract with ATI for Intel chipsets is in the air as well, meaning no more crossfire on Intel chipset-based Intel platforms. Intel chipset based Intel platforms already lack SLI, except maybe mobile platforms. i975 still hasn't gotten nVidia's approval. And don't expect nVidia to stop making chipsets for AMD, as they are the largest chipset maker for AMD. Neither AMD nor nVidia want to lose this, at least, not right off the back. Like Intel, AMD will now have it's own chipset worth a flip. Infact, as we've all seen, ATI already has proven itself with it's chipset for s939. This can only improve. But, the question is, will SLI work on "ATI", now AMD, chipsets, and if so, will crossfire work on nVidia chipsets? I think so, I don't see either company putting themselves in Intel's current position of apparent stuborness. All this is supposedly going to fall under "Torrenza", and along with that, AMD seems to want to set a whole new set of standards, something Intel has been doing up untill 64-bit came along.
So, let's talk about what I think Intel will/needs to do. First, they will need to produce cpu's with an IMC and some form of technology similar to AMD's Direct Connect. Now, Intel has slated something along the lines of 'Direct Connect', but the only mention of an IMC was on an article about Itanium. Intel will also be behind in the fact that AMD will be producing video cards, and I'm left to wonder if Intel will too, or if even aquisition of nVidia is in the talks. As AMD's aquisition of ATI instill's a little fear in my mind, should Intel aquire nVidia, that makes me fear even more. That will leave just two companies making cpu's, chipsets for those cpu's, and gpu's. Sure there are others, but none that really show promise for competition. While two is better than one, more is better, as they only have to really compete with each other.
Well, there you have it. That's my thinking. Flame away.
If you were to ask me which I'd prefer, AMD or Intel, I would say AMD. Am I a fanboy for this? If you think so, then I'd consider you an Intel fanboy. I never said Intel Core2Duo was bad, nor have I talked down about it. In fact, if you do a search on my posts, you will see me saying that it is faster, consumes less power(if you don't include total system, meaning, the chipset), overclocks very well, and is reasonably priced. So then, why would I still prefer AMD? Well, read on.
First off, when I talk of AMD, the foundation of my discussion is AM2. Currently, as has been said, Core2Duo has better offerings than anything on AM2. But people seem to forget that AM2 was released solely as a platform for DDR2, and was never said to be anything more. And while yes, it is only fair to compare what is currently available, let's look at what we are comparing. AMD K8 architecture is over three years old, Intel Core2Duo is brand spanking new. K8 is 90nm , Core2Duo is 65nm. K8 is made on 200mm wafers, Core2Duo is made on 300mm wafers, along with many more fabs(this has to due with price). All this, and Core2Duo, on average, is 15% better than K8 AM2, and prices are within range of each other.
It is just as fair to compare what is out now to what will be out later. And that is where the meat of my decision is. By the end of the year, AMD will release 65nm cpu's made on 300mm wafers. Based on that alone, one can assume AMD will be dropping their prices due to higher production. One can also assume the power consumption will come down as well, to levels of Core2Duo, and with integrated memory controller. Remember now, we're still talking about K8. Now, will it be a dumb shrink, that's still up for debate. I personally think there will be AT LEAST a few improvements. And as when AMD went from 130nm to 90nm, I'm sure we'll see better overclocks, and better scaling. Also remember Dell, the largest pc distributor, is about to start selling AMD-based notebooks, desktops, and servers. This will add to the lowering of AMD's prices.
Now let's talk 4x4. While latest news has left me a little disappointed, I'm still optimistic, as this is what I really want. 4x4 offers the enthusiast two sockets for, from the start, two dual-cores. Later they will offer quad-cores. Why is this worth it over going s1207 Opteron? First, it will allow you to use unbuffered ram, which is generally cheaper, lower latency, and many more options. Second, there will be more options on motherboards. Most, if not all, enthusiast motherboard makers have given praise to the platform, and will be making boards. This means not only better competition for better prices, but also better overclocking potential. 4x4 is also good due to AMD's Direct Connect technology over Hypertransport(HT) lanes. This will allow the sharing of each cpu's cache and memory. This alone will improve games, which are generally gpu bottlenecked, add to that more processing power for background programs, and the fact games are becoming multi-threaded. Intel just dosn't, and can't for that matter, have anything to compare. This is due out by the end of the year as well. All these we are to assume will benefit s1207 Opterons as well.
Now let's talk K8L. K8L is supposed to be AMD's new architecture. Let's not get into what's considered new architecture, we all know both companies are really just improving on their P3 and K6 architectures. What we are considering are major jumps in technology. K8L will add another set of instructions, fpu, ipc improvements, more HT links, updated Direct Connect, shared L3, and many other things. While nothing can be set in stone, if you don't believe it won't AT LEAST compete with Core2Duo, then you really are an Intel fanboy. And remember, this less than one year after Core2Duo's release, not the three years we had to wait on Core2Duo after K8's release. K8L will be on socket AM2, and of course, 4x4. It is also going to be the architecture when socket AM3 releases. Any cpu released on AM3 will work on socket AM2, as has been stated by AMD. K8L will be native quad-core, and won't have the possibility of bottlenecking from front-side bus(FSB) due to it's integrated memory controller(IMC). Not to mention when you have two quad-cores on 4x4, or up to eight quad-cores on s1207 Opterons.
To me, as people ask what and when AMD will have something to compete with Intel Core2Duo, I ask what and when Intel will have to compete with K8L. Well, according to Intel, the when will be at least two years from now. Intel has stated they will release a 'new architecture' every two years. Well, good luck to you I say. And I do hope they produce to keep the competition strong. Both companies are stating 45nm by '08. This means you will see 45nm on AM2, since as has been said, any cpu for socket AM3 will work on AM2. It's also good to know that if you're on AM3, and socket AM4 comes out, AM4 cpu's will work on AM3, as has been stated by AMD. So, if A=B, and B=C, then A=C, in other words, AM4 should work on AM2. Of course, by the time AM4 comes out, we should all be about 3-4 years older. Could this change? Of course. In fact, I believe it will, as I don't see AMD not making the change to LGA for mainstream, if not something else.
Now let's talk about AMD's aquisition of ATI. What will this bring? Well, even I'm a little short on this subject. First off, AMD will now have it's own integrated video chipsets, made by the leader of integrated video chipset makers. You can bet they will connect to the cpu via some HT lanes, increasing bandwidth and reducing latency. You should see AMD surge in the laptop market due to this. Remember, more production means lower prices. It also means more money for R&D. Both companies have stated they will have integrated video controllers, meaning more bus lanes. But being ATI is the second largest distributor of video cards, expect them to get a great boost in developement and production, meaning better technology and lower prices respectively. You also better bet ATI cards will run better on AMD platforms than they will on Intel platforms. And wether or not Intel will renew their contract with ATI for Intel chipsets is in the air as well, meaning no more crossfire on Intel chipset-based Intel platforms. Intel chipset based Intel platforms already lack SLI, except maybe mobile platforms. i975 still hasn't gotten nVidia's approval. And don't expect nVidia to stop making chipsets for AMD, as they are the largest chipset maker for AMD. Neither AMD nor nVidia want to lose this, at least, not right off the back. Like Intel, AMD will now have it's own chipset worth a flip. Infact, as we've all seen, ATI already has proven itself with it's chipset for s939. This can only improve. But, the question is, will SLI work on "ATI", now AMD, chipsets, and if so, will crossfire work on nVidia chipsets? I think so, I don't see either company putting themselves in Intel's current position of apparent stuborness. All this is supposedly going to fall under "Torrenza", and along with that, AMD seems to want to set a whole new set of standards, something Intel has been doing up untill 64-bit came along.
So, let's talk about what I think Intel will/needs to do. First, they will need to produce cpu's with an IMC and some form of technology similar to AMD's Direct Connect. Now, Intel has slated something along the lines of 'Direct Connect', but the only mention of an IMC was on an article about Itanium. Intel will also be behind in the fact that AMD will be producing video cards, and I'm left to wonder if Intel will too, or if even aquisition of nVidia is in the talks. As AMD's aquisition of ATI instill's a little fear in my mind, should Intel aquire nVidia, that makes me fear even more. That will leave just two companies making cpu's, chipsets for those cpu's, and gpu's. Sure there are others, but none that really show promise for competition. While two is better than one, more is better, as they only have to really compete with each other.
Well, there you have it. That's my thinking. Flame away.