Biostar TForce 550

funnyperson1 · Mar 28, 2007

Glad to see the True Control is working out for you.

The CPU socket is pretty close the the ram slots, I think its because the board in general is fairly compact. Compared to the ASRock 939 I had before, this board is like 1.5" smaller on the width

Also I am not a fan of the latching mechanism of the video card. Perhaps it has something to do with the card not sitting as firmly in the slot, but that little stub is freaking impossible to push down when you want to remove the card. I ended up using a screwdriver and risked slipping/maiming that board.

Sgt_Strider · Mar 28, 2007

Hey guys, I'm interested in this setup too. It seems reasonably cheap, but this board is an m-atx board? Also, which RAM would allow me the best chance to get this board to at least 2.8ghz? Do you guys have your fan running at high RPM to cool the beast down at that speed? I'm thinking of using the saved money to get a water cooling solution if it requires a high RPM fan to cool the thing down. I can't stand noise anymore!

Sgt_Strider · Mar 28, 2007

funnyperson1 said:
No problem bro, just post back with the results and any issues you run into because as you said, this thread could be a great resource for others curious about this motherboard.

The X2 at 2.9 performs somewhere in between the E6400 and E6600 at stock speeds (closer to the 6600 though). Of course that isn't the best comparison because both of those chips can easily do 3ghz+ and crush us :/. Compared to other X2s a clock to clock comparison is pretty fair, the only exception would be the Opterons, FX, and select X2 chips with 1MBx2 cache which can be 5% faster in some applications. So at 2.9ghz we are sitting between the FX 62 and the X2 6000+.

I have a lot of those set to auto, just make sure that anything that includes the words Spread Spectrum is disabled.

A lot of people do find overclocking and tweaking computers analogous to doing the same to cars. When it comes down to it, the general idea is the same, getting more out of your machine. I stick with PCs because im poor (and my car is leased). We have a couple threads in our General Discussion section about cars and you will see a lot of unique vehicles many with a ton of time and money invested in them.

Good luck.

Dude you can't be serious here? A Brisbane at 2.9 ghz performs similar to a E6300 at 1.86ghz or E6400 at 2.13ghz? If so, this is ******* embarrassing. I hope I misunderstood your comments and that a C2D at similar speed to the Brisbane offers 25-30% more performance.

apvm · Mar 28, 2007

My X2 3600+ retail box arrived yesterday (got the retail instead of oem is because of free shipping and it works out cheaper than oem) anyway, I heard the stock heatsink is no good for overclocking, how bad is it? and should I replace it with an Artic cooling freezer 64? Haven't decide on the motherboard yet, will be either Biostar 550 or the MSI K9N neo-f, both are same price, still worry about reliablity of Biostar.

funnyperson1 · Mar 28, 2007

Sgt, this is a regular ATX board. Ram isn't as important with Athlon64s in general because you can run memory dividers with minimal performance loss. I would recommend some good DDR2 800 memory so you can run higher dividers or higher timings when overclocked, but the performance difference between that and bargain DDR2 667 isn't huge (and sometimes you get lucky and get good overclocking 667 ram).

Also note that I said at 2.9 the Brisbane is between teh E6400 and E6600, not E6300 and E6400. I based these numbers on benchmarks I have seen between the X2 6000+ (3.0 Ghz) and E6600 (2.4Ghz). Those benchmarks indicated the chips trading shots but generally the AMD was slightly faster. Other benchmarks I have seen also seem to indicate that AMD needs a 4-600mhz handicap to outpace C2Ds in benchmarks.

I think the 20-30% slower clock per clock is fairly accurate. If you do the math 80% of 2900mhz is 2.32ghz.

Also note that I am talking about benchmark speedin general usage I can guarantee you wouldn't notice a difference between these chips and a C2D. In fact my dad built some E6300/G965 machines at his office, and when he used my computer he wondered why his ran so much slower.

These chips run pretty cool guys, they don't require extreme cooling. Sgt, loud fans are completely unnecessary if you have a good heatsink. I feel like at $16, the Ultra 90 is a great choice paired with a low-medium speed fan. If you want ultimate performance and really quiet fans you can hook up an Ultra 120 or Tuniq Tower.

The stock cooler is probably enough for like 2.8ghz honestly. I would try overclocking with it first and then buying a new heatsink only if you aren't satisfied with your speed/temperatures.

apvm · Mar 28, 2007

funnyperson1,

My main computer is an AMD Opty 165 S939 but I don't overclock it since that computer needs to be on nearly 24/7. Do you think switching the heatsink+fan between the Opty and my X2 3600+ will work? I mean the stock heatsink that came with the Opty seems like a better one but wondering the stock heatsink that came with the X2 3600+ can handle the Opty...TIA

Shroomer · Mar 28, 2007

funnyperson1 said:
(and sometimes you get lucky and get good overclocking 667 ram).

....And sometimes you don't

funnyperson1 · Mar 28, 2007

Those opty heatsinks are pretty decent, and would definitely be a better choice for overclocking than the plain Aluminum heatsink that came with your X2.

The only real question is how well the Opteron stays cool with the basic heatsink. I think you should be more than ok, but I would check the temps to be sure.

Shroomer I feel you man, when I was reading about these Kingston sticks, I saw people doing DDR2 800 at C4 timings and DDR2 1050 with C5 timings with 2.0-2.2V. When I got them I saw Nanya on the chips and was like aww ****. I can barely do DDR2 560 with C4 timings or 800 with C5 timings with 2.1V.

apvm · Mar 28, 2007

Thanks, I think I'll try that stock heatsink 1st to see if I need to order that freezer 64, it is just that if I order it togather with the mainboard, I'll save some shipping cost in the future if I decide to order a heatsink.

boostm3 · Mar 28, 2007

Funny, alot of reviews of our mobo have commented on the proximity of the AM2 socket and the first ram slot, with the implication being that a large HSF will often impinge on that slot rendering it unuseable. Im curious if youve heard of any folks using certain HSFs with our mobo which have impinged on this ram slot? Or, if youve heard of any particularly effective HSFs which have managed to fit in the alloted space without this negative impact?

Also, Im downloading some support software to support my oc when i get to it. Do you recommend Sisoft Sandra over any of the other bm utilities? I think its on version XI now.

Re HSF, I somehow managed to turn my HSF fan off this morning by mistake, and watched as the cpu temp climbed quickly through the 30s up to the low 40s before I managed to switch the fan back on with my biosoft fan utility. I watched as the temps just as quickly plummeted down about 12 degrees in a few seconds.. Made me feel good that its working so well. I was wondering, with all your oc experience, could you estimate what the average, general CPU temperature difference is between an IDLE state, and a moderate load state of say 50%, or even higher? Would the difference be somewhere around 10-12 degrees?

thanks.

funnyperson1 · Mar 28, 2007

apvm I would definitely try the swap first. The stock Brisbane heatsink should be enough to run the Opteron at stock speeds, and the stock Opteron heatsink should be plenty to get a great overclock from the Brisbane.

boost, I can highly recommend the Thermalright Ultra 90 as an affordable heatsink with great performance that allows use of the first ram slot. You will have to install the ram first as part of the heatsink does sit over the slot, but high enough above that it won't touch.

For $16, this is a great deal (you'll need to add a fan though):
http://www.svc.com/ultra-90-k8.html

Now there are better performing heatsinks for sure, but none that I know of under $30-40. Also most of those heatsinks are probably the mammoth type that won't fit.

Now there is also the Thermalright-120 heatsink which is arguably the second best heatsink on the market. It is a massive heatsink, and probably renders the first slot unusable. However, Thermalright offers an adapter that lets you mount the heatsink sideways so that the ram slots are completely free. This is usually preferable as well because in most cases it lines the heatsink output with the rear exhaust fan.

Here is the adapter:
http://www.svc.com/s-clip.html

You can also use that with the Ultra-90. I'm going to verify for you guys that you can install ram in the first slot with teh Ultra-90, it certainly looks high enough.

Depends on the CPU boost, I have seen idle-load differentials between 3C (man I miss the PIII days) to 20C depending on processor and cooling. With our chips it seems to be 11-15C depending on conditions. However this is easy to test yourself, and I suggest that any testing you do be at full load. For overclockers idle or 50% load temps doesn't matter at all, it is wholly insignificant. If your system overheats at full load, then it will be unstable, and WILL crash at some point when you really need the power.

My suggestion is to measure temps with Orthos running Small FFTs. It will run both cores at 100% load and right now is truly the gold standard of stress tests for most overclockers.

SiSoft is good because it really gives you a good general idea of how much CPU power you are gaining through your overclock, it is satisfying at the end to do their comparisons and see your CPU match up to ones that cost 100s more. Other popular benchmarks include Everest, PC Wizard, and the venerable 3DMark (2001 is the best system benchmark, the rest are quite video card dependant).

edit: The Ultra90 definitely doesn't block you from installing ram in the first slot. I did it just fine, and I didn't even have to dismount the heatsink (kinda tricky though), there is about 1cm of clearance.

boostm3 · Mar 28, 2007

Thanks Funny.. Im downloading latest sisoft, followed by Orthos. Once I get all the tools up and running, Ill do a complete bench of my biostar/3600+ combo in stock settings, and will post the results if anybody's interested.. Then, onto the oc, with results to follow.

You know, in Speedfan, how sometimes the 'Sample' values you find need to be 'unchecked' in the Configuration window, as the results are simply wrong, or not relevant? I just took a look at my Vcore values. Speedfan breaks it down into 'Vcore1' and 'Vcore2'. The voltage shown for Vcore1 matches that which Cpu-Z and the other programs show, ie, 1.33 v (1.328 in Cpu-Z). Fine.. But, the Speedfan value for Vcore2 is: 1.54v!??? is that even possible? or, is it one of those spurious Speedfan values which needs to be tossed? PC Wizard, CPU-Z, etc, dont even show a Vcore2.. they all show one cpu value of 1.33 (1.328) . I just wanna make sure my system's not really screwed up..

Oh.. about the Ultra 90... that sounds like what I should use if Im not satisfied with my Masscool HSF after oc and testing begins. The fact that it fits and doesnt impinge the ram slot is a big plus for me.. but often times, with an HSF, isnt it the fan that does the impinging, and not the heat sink? If so, can you recommend a good 90mm fan that will fit the Ultra 90 with room for the ram slot? Is there a bracket or some other attachment mechanism? Ive seen some guys using tie wraps or rubber bands on some heat sinks to attach the fan... thanks..

funnyperson1 · Mar 28, 2007

Here is a picture, as you can see, the heatsink does overhang the slot, but its high enough and slight enough that a nimble person can install ram there without unmounting the heatsink (it is a tight fit between the video card, heatsink and cables, although hopefully your cables aren't as untidy as mine).

VCore1 is the right one.

boostm3 · Mar 29, 2007

Nice Pic funny. Can you advise which 90mm fan youre using in conjunction with the Ultra 90?

Also, you link us to the K8 version.. But dont we have an AM2 socket on the Tforce 550? And if so, the thermalright site shows wed need to buy a special, 3 pronged black plastic socket surround to anchor it. Whas up with that?

Sgt_Strider · Mar 29, 2007

funnyperson1 said:
Sgt, this is a regular ATX board. Ram isn't as important with Athlon64s in general because you can run memory dividers with minimal performance loss. I would recommend some good DDR2 800 memory so you can run higher dividers or higher timings when overclocked, but the performance difference between that and bargain DDR2 667 isn't huge (and sometimes you get lucky and get good overclocking 667 ram).

Also note that I said at 2.9 the Brisbane is between teh E6400 and E6600, not E6300 and E6400. I based these numbers on benchmarks I have seen between the X2 6000+ (3.0 Ghz) and E6600 (2.4Ghz). Those benchmarks indicated the chips trading shots but generally the AMD was slightly faster. Other benchmarks I have seen also seem to indicate that AMD needs a 4-600mhz handicap to outpace C2Ds in benchmarks.

I think the 20-30% slower clock per clock is fairly accurate. If you do the math 80% of 2900mhz is 2.32ghz.

Also note that I am talking about benchmark speedin general usage I can guarantee you wouldn't notice a difference between these chips and a C2D. In fact my dad built some E6300/G965 machines at his office, and when he used my computer he wondered why his ran so much slower.

These chips run pretty cool guys, they don't require extreme cooling. Sgt, loud fans are completely unnecessary if you have a good heatsink. I feel like at $16, the Ultra 90 is a great choice paired with a low-medium speed fan. If you want ultimate performance and really quiet fans you can hook up an Ultra 120 or Tuniq Tower.

The stock cooler is probably enough for like 2.8ghz honestly. I would try overclocking with it first and then buying a new heatsink only if you aren't satisfied with your speed/temperatures.

Thanks for the information and looking at the numbers, I think you're on to something. I'm very interested in this setup as I'm saving almost $200 CAD by going with AMD instead. The numbers that this setup is giving seems sufficient enough to me. My only worry is if I can't OC the chip pass 2.8ghz.

Btw, is there even enough room for the Ultra 120 heatsink? I have one and I would hate to go out and buy a new hsf just for this motherboard.

Sgt_Strider · Mar 29, 2007

funnyperson1 said:
apvm I would definitely try the swap first. The stock Brisbane heatsink should be enough to run the Opteron at stock speeds, and the stock Opteron heatsink should be plenty to get a great overclock from the Brisbane.

boost, I can highly recommend the Thermalright Ultra 90 as an affordable heatsink with great performance that allows use of the first ram slot. You will have to install the ram first as part of the heatsink does sit over the slot, but high enough above that it won't touch.

For $16, this is a great deal (you'll need to add a fan though):
http://www.svc.com/ultra-90-k8.html

Now there are better performing heatsinks for sure, but none that I know of under $30-40. Also most of those heatsinks are probably the mammoth type that won't fit.

Now there is also the Thermalright-120 heatsink which is arguably the second best heatsink on the market. It is a massive heatsink, and probably renders the first slot unusable. However, Thermalright offers an adapter that lets you mount the heatsink sideways so that the ram slots are completely free. This is usually preferable as well because in most cases it lines the heatsink output with the rear exhaust fan.

Here is the adapter:
http://www.svc.com/s-clip.html

You can also use that with the Ultra-90. I'm going to verify for you guys that you can install ram in the first slot with teh Ultra-90, it certainly looks high enough.

Depends on the CPU boost, I have seen idle-load differentials between 3C (man I miss the PIII days) to 20C depending on processor and cooling. With our chips it seems to be 11-15C depending on conditions. However this is easy to test yourself, and I suggest that any testing you do be at full load. For overclockers idle or 50% load temps doesn't matter at all, it is wholly insignificant. If your system overheats at full load, then it will be unstable, and WILL crash at some point when you really need the power.

My suggestion is to measure temps with Orthos running Small FFTs. It will run both cores at 100% load and right now is truly the gold standard of stress tests for most overclockers.

SiSoft is good because it really gives you a good general idea of how much CPU power you are gaining through your overclock, it is satisfying at the end to do their comparisons and see your CPU match up to ones that cost 100s more. Other popular benchmarks include Everest, PC Wizard, and the venerable 3DMark (2001 is the best system benchmark, the rest are quite video card dependant).

edit: The Ultra90 definitely doesn't block you from installing ram in the first slot. I did it just fine, and I didn't even have to dismount the heatsink (kinda tricky though), there is about 1cm of clearance.

You sure that adapter works with the Ultra-120? I checked the website that you provided and it doesn't mention support for the Ultra-120.

funnyperson1 · Mar 29, 2007

boostm3 said:
Nice Pic funny. Can you advise which 90mm fan youre using in conjunction with the Ultra 90?

Also, you link us to the K8 version.. But dont we have an AM2 socket on the Tforce 550? And if so, the thermalright site shows wed need to buy a special, 3 pronged black plastic socket surround to anchor it. Whas up with that?

The Ultra90 K8 version (there is no seperate AM2 version) mounts just fine on AM2 boards. The only thing is that all 3 holes in the clip won't be engaged. They sell that bracket because people would probably feel more secure with all 3 holes engaged. The default AM2 bracket has one lug on each side, but that is plenty to get a snug secure fit with this heatsink. Of course if you felt uncomfortable you could always get the bracket.

I'm using a medium speed Panaflo fan. It has good airflow for the noise, but is definitely very audible. The low speed 92mm Panaflo is probably a great choice, but is from $8-10.

This is probably a great choice:
http://svc.com/af9225.html

What a lot of people do is get a high speed fan that is unbearably loud at 12V, but hook it up to a rheostat and run it at 5-9V where its quiet and still pushes a bunch of air.

Sgt.Strider, you're right, that s-clip does not work with the Ultra120, I forgot that it was a bolt-down style heatsink.

The Ultra 120 will almost certainly hang over the first or second ram slot, the question is if it is high enough that you could still install ram in there. Other than that it should fit fine. Honestly though it isn't that big of a deal either way, I'm not a big fan of running 4 sticks in a mobo, most times you will limit your overclock, have to loosen ram timings, and sometimes it just plain doesn't work.

boostm3 · Mar 29, 2007

funnyperson1 said:
The Ultra90 K8 version (there is no seperate AM2 version) mounts just fine on AM2 boards. The only thing is that all 3 holes in the clip won't be engaged. They sell that bracket because people would probably feel more secure with all 3 holes engaged. The default AM2 bracket has one lug on each side, but that is plenty to get a snug secure fit with this heatsink. Of course if you felt uncomfortable you could always get the bracket.

I'm using a medium speed Panaflo fan. It has good airflow for the noise, but is definitely very audible. The low speed 92mm Panaflo is probably a great choice, but is from $8-10.

This is probably a great choice:
http://svc.com/af9225.html

What a lot of people do is get a high speed fan that is unbearably loud at 12V, but hook it up to a rheostat and run it at 5-9V where its quiet and still pushes a bunch of air.

Sgt.Strider, you're right, that s-clip does not work with the Ultra120, I forgot that it was a bolt-down style heatsink.

The Ultra 120 will almost certainly hang over the first or second ram slot, the question is if it is high enough that you could still install ram in there. Other than that it should fit fine. Honestly though it isn't that big of a deal either way, I'm not a big fan of running 4 sticks in a mobo, most times you will limit your overclock, have to loosen ram timings, and sometimes it just plain doesn't work.

Hi Funny,

>>The Ultra90 K8 version (there is no seperate AM2 version) mounts just fine on AM2 boards<<

Go here and click on AMD Heatsinks on the left. . http://www.thermalright.com/default.htm

There youll see both an AM2 and a K8 versions.. Sure, essentially theyre the same, but theyll throw enough of a question into most folks with our configs that theyll want to ask more.. Youve put my mind at rest that the K8 version from svc.com works ... One thing Youll see on the thermalright website is that the black plastic bracket surround they say you have to buy separarely to replace the one on our mobo with for the AM2 revision has THREE (3) plastic prongs to mount to the corresponding metal clampdown bracket; the AM2 black plastic surround on our MOBO has but one. So IM wondering if, without purchasing the AM2 revision shown on the Thermalright website, are you attaching your Ultra 90 with the single black plastic prongs contained on our mobo's AM2 socket surround? The three prong attacher looks alot more secure to me. Heres a pic from the thermalrite site, and youll see what Im referring to.. It looks like the K8 version comes with the three prong attacher clamp, and if our AM2 socket only has the singles, and not the triples, it doesnt look like it would be as secure. But then, what do I know! Im a babe in the woods with this upgrade. Ive attached 3 pics. Look closely and you will see two pics showing the 3 pronged socket surrounds, and 1 of the 1 prong socket surround found on the Tforce 550 AM2 sockets. Hopefully this will show what all this is about.

Thanks for the fan info. Would any 90mm fan with a good cfm and decibel rating do? 92mm? Are these listed as 90mm 'case' fans, or under some other heading? Newegg didnt show separate fans under the cpu cooler heading.. I could only find separate fans under the 'case fan' heading if I use newegg. svc.com has this panflo: http://svc.com/fba09a12u.html.. has as 68 cfm rating, and its only 3 bucks... its loud at the full cfm level, but we can control that with software.. would this not be a good option, as well as the arctic cooling you mentioned?

Scottland · Mar 29, 2007

I put a Sycthe Ninja on my 3600+, and it completely covers the first 2 ram slots. Thankfully, you can still run dual channel by using only slots 3 & 4.

On the bright side, the Ninja keeps it really cool, and very quiet with the included low speed 120mm fan.

Moshrider · Mar 29, 2007

hi, I'm kinda of a newbie at overclocking. i have the biostar tforce 550 mobo and 3600 combo. so far iv gotten it up and totally stable at 2.7ghz@ 1.325 volts. my ram is ddr2 667 pny ram 2gb. when i frist got the board it was on the 11/22/06 bios and would do 2.8ghz not prime stable but game stable and enough to benchmark some... 2.7ghz was stable..i read about the 207 bios and decided to update to it...but now it wont even post at 295 htt..i was wondering if any could help me..maby im missing something?

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