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Thread: Rig Building

  1. #1

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    Rig Building

    I think we need a folding rig building recommendations type of thread or sub forum. This would help some people out in the area of choosing the best hardware. I know I have made some very poor choices in the past in this area.
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    I just copy the sig that seems the most popular.

    P5B for OCing and the Asrock for budget.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfonda
    I just copy the sig that seems the most popular.

    P5B for OCing and the Asrock for budget.
    I notice the Asrock in your sig, is 2.4 the highest you have been able to get that? I was reading in another thread that the Asrock wont go higher than 300fsb so it has made me consider changing plans for the C2D farm.

    Was looking at this one http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16813130093 based on BIOS settings and stuff it seems decent but cant find any reviews, plus it has onboard video, which isnt a requirement but certainly an advantage so I dont have to move my pci card around should I need to quickly troubleshoot.

    Asrock definately had some good words put in for it but I want to make sure it is not he limit of the possible OC for the E4300s that will be going in them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark620
    I think we need a folding rig building recommendations type of thread or sub forum. This would help some people out in the area of choosing the best hardware. I know I have made some very poor choices in the past in this area.
    I think it keeps things lively...just having all of the posts together. Personally, I forget about subforums...Having everything together may be a little messy, but I think it works fine.
    Like, I know if I had $10k to spend on a farm what I would build, simply beacuse its all together here....otherwise I wouldnt know jack.
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    With the ASRocks, you have to get the highest multiplier chip because it is going to max out right around 295-305 no matter what you put in it. The E4300 has a 9 multi so it's going to max @ 2.7 GHz. The claim to fame of the ASRock is being able to use DDR ram and an AGP vid card. If I had to buy new ram and a vid card anyway, the 775Dual-VSTA would be far from my first choice. For turning a Socket A into a C2D on the cheap, it can't be beat.

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    Senior Newbie Cannon-Fodder - R. I. P. good buddy :( pscout's Avatar
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    mobo's with integrated video usually don't oc very well.

    The price of a cheap pci video card is $5-10 and it will work in any mobo. I just bought 5 more of them. Get ones with >8MB memory and they support > 1280x1024 high colour which is what most of my kvm'ed monitors like to work at.
    2 MB cards really only work well up to 1024x768 and are a pita on ubuntu.
    Last edited by pscout; 04-09-07 at 03:46 PM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ChasR
    With the ASRocks, you have to get the highest multiplier chip because it is going to max out right around 295-305 no matter what you put in it. The E4300 has a 9 multi so it's going to max @ 2.7 GHz. The claim to fame of the ASRock is being able to use DDR ram and an AGP vid card. If I had to buy new ram and a vid card anyway, the 775Dual-VSTA would be far from my first choice. For turning a Socket A into a C2D on the cheap, it can't be beat.
    Hey Mr ChasR, these are probably dumb questions (maybe off topic too) , but, after the April 22nd price cuts, I was seriously considering a E4400 (I think 10x multi). I don't have but one stick of DDR1 in the closet so I was wondering would it be okay to use DDR2? (I have a DDR2 400 kit and a DDR2 667 kit for 1 GB each kit) I have an extra PCIe card, PSU, HSF, etc and a Asrock 775DUAL-VSTA mobo with a "mini space heater ", " energy hog" PD 805 (OC'ed to 2.8 GHz) in it right now. I was hoping to retire the PD 805 and put the E4400 in it's place. Do you think I could get it (E4400) up to 3.0 GHz? I was going to replace the 1 GB kit DDR2 667 in a P5B Deluxe mobo and E6300 with a 1 GB kit of DDR 800, maybe clock it to 3.0 GHz stable folding? I would appreciate an answer to these questions from anyone. I addressed this post to ChaseR because, like many team 32 members, he knows lots about folding, plus he has a 775DUAL-VSTA in his farm.

    Edit: I was planning on getting a E6420 (I like my E6400, I'd like to try a x3210) to replace the E6300 in a P5B Deluxe mobo and add some DDR2 PC6400. It'd be cheaper to just put the E6300 in the Asrock and forget about a fsb 800 E4400. (man, I wish April 22nd would hurry up and get here)
    Last edited by jws2346; 04-09-07 at 04:29 PM.
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  9. #9
    Just Another Retired Moderator Jon's Avatar
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    E4300 has a 9 multi. It will only go to 2.7GHz with that and it's all dependent upon the board. If the PCI/E holds, then there should be no problems. I do believe you'll need to BSEL mod the E4300 to 266MHz FSB to get the PCI dividers in spec to reach 300MHz though...someone with the board will have to chime in on that one. I know I had to do that on my 945G board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pscout
    mobo's with integrated video usually don't oc very well.

    The price of a cheap pci video card is $5-10 and it will work in any mobo. I just bought 5 more of them. Get ones with >8MB memory and they support > 1280x1024 high colour which is what most of my kvm'ed monitors like to work at.
    2 MB cards really only work well up to 1024x768 and are a pita on ubuntu.
    the problem is where the boards will be going a pci card wont fit and a the cost of the riser card defeats the purpose. Frankly if I could beat the OC of the Asrock with one that has onboard video ill go for the later easily. Now a lower profile one would 'work' but mounting it will be a pain even though it will fit where it needs to be installed.

    The other thing is the rigs being upgraded all ran on PC100/133 crap and the DDR1 stuff is being dumped into P4 HT rigs and the non-HT ones are being sold off as well. So nothing really left over.

    OH and as for cost evalluation, think of cost x 3 since that is what will be ordered. Problem with going with 3 6400s is, even after the supposed price cuts the cost for 3 6400s over the cost of 3 4300s almost equals about half of another 4300 rig. The question now is whether the difference in performance and potential OC on stock heatsinks warrants splurging on the 6400s or wait a month and add a 4th 4300
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon
    E4300 has a 9 multi. It will only go to 2.7GHz with that and it's all dependent upon the board. If the PCI/E holds, then there should be no problems. I do believe you'll need to BSEL mod the E4300 to 266MHz FSB to get the PCI dividers in spec to reach 300MHz though...someone with the board will have to chime in on that one. I know I had to do that on my 945G board.
    well the only 945 board i would look foward to using is the abit lg95, the lg85 was a wonder to oc with a 520J. the thing i keep reading is that pretty much every matx board from asus doesnt lock pci/pci-e speeds. there is a msi board that supports 1333fsb but its G965 based. the asrock mobo yea you need to mod for the pci to get into spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilsizer
    well the only 945 board i would look foward to using is the abit lg95, the lg85 was a wonder to oc with a 520J. the thing i keep reading is that pretty much every matx board from asus doesnt lock pci/pci-e speeds. there is a msi board that supports 1333fsb but its G965 based. the asrock mobo yea you need to mod for the pci to get into spec.
    So then if you want an mATX board dont get an asus or you will have difficulty reaching a decent OC w/o modding?

    If that is the case what are some better options for mATX C2D capable boards?
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  13. #13
    A stack of AM2 3600s in TForce550 boards with some cheap DDR2 on SMP clients will do the trick. About $180-200 per layer if you have the drives and PSUs.
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  14. #14
    Senior Newbie Cannon-Fodder - R. I. P. good buddy :( pscout's Avatar
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    not sure if this is matx or atx but the Biostar T-force 965p-t is an $85 high fsb option. When i last looked i couldn't find it in canada, but there might be some availabilty in the US.

    Farther up along the price curve is the gigabyte -s3 mobo ... and i recall seeing a G version with integrated video?

    If you are going the e4300 route tho you won't need a very high fsb mobo ...

    and you couldn't run at high fsb with stock hsf either.

    If you are planning on putting it in a 1u chassis, I suspect cooling will limit any oc ... in a 1 u chassis will a stock (intel) hsf even fit? or r u planning 2U or bigger?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pscout
    not sure if this is matx or atx but the Biostar T-force 965p-t is an $85 high fsb option. When i last looked i couldn't find it in canada, but there might be some availabilty in the US.

    Farther up along the price curve is the gigabyte -s3 mobo ... and i recall seeing a G version with integrated video?

    If you are going the e4300 route tho you won't need a very high fsb mobo ...

    and you couldn't run at high fsb with stock hsf either.

    If you are planning on putting it in a 1u chassis, I suspect cooling will limit any oc ... in a 1 u chassis will a stock (intel) hsf even fit? or r u planning 2U or bigger?
    They will be aranged vertically in an 8U chassis so around 18" wide, just under 12" high and about 2 feet deep. 3 boards in the case so I will have abut 5" of clearance for each setup. They will be cooled (in addition to their own stock HSF) by 6 Delta AFB1212VHE's(@12V) at the front of the chassis. Some parts have been ordered from mcmaster for the mounting and fastening end of this, when the stuff arrives Ill be taking another look @ clearence and such. but with the width of the motherboard and the base it will be mounted to there will be very little clearance with just the stock cooler. I suppose a 2.7Ghz OC would be acceptable for E4300s assuming that is possible w/ stock HSF and a lot of case air flow.

    Oh and in case you ddint know the 1U project has been scrapped. The 4U case came in and Ive been working to put my older dual Xeon into it. I gotta say it is a rather nice case for the price. My biggest problem with it is I wish I could put one of my nice deltas in place of the existing 120mm but the drive cage doesnt allow for a 38mm fan. The new solution for C2Ds beyond these first 3 is to do 2Us which are a little pricey, or design my own case that fits 120mm fans in front even it becomes a non-standard height though IIRC a 120mm fan is like .3" smaller than a 3U case. Or do a semi caseless setup but that design is very much in the works and depends heavily on the success of this project. However, I won't be wasting much time as once I can get the chips for their reduced price the rigs will be ordered and built and start crunching Linux SMP as I build their case after all we cant let that juice go to waste But that is another bridge to cross once this project is done as Im pretty much redesigning my entire farm in the weeks to come (both in placement and content) so I don't turn the washroom into a furnace and the comps into bubbling piles of molten silicone

    I guess I forgot to create the post about this rackmount project hehe.. Guess I can do that while I reinstall Win2k3 on my soon to be new server tonight.

    @AC, Im pretty sure the C2Ds out perform their AMD brethren as far as cost/ppd/power consumption by a decent amount?
    Last edited by pik4chu; 04-09-07 at 05:58 PM.
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  16. #16
    Just Another Retired Moderator Jon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pscout
    not sure if this is matx or atx but the Biostar T-force 965p-t is an $85 high fsb option. When i last looked i couldn't find it in canada, but there might be some availabilty in the US.

    Farther up along the price curve is the gigabyte -s3 mobo ... and i recall seeing a G version with integrated video?

    If you are going the e4300 route tho you won't need a very high fsb mobo ...

    and you couldn't run at high fsb with stock hsf either.

    If you are planning on putting it in a 1u chassis, I suspect cooling will limit any oc ... in a 1 u chassis will a stock (intel) hsf even fit? or r u planning 2U or bigger?
    I looked into the G version and while I don't remember the details, it is not the overclocker that the P is. Unless I'm mistaken, the G doesn't have options to overclock at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon
    I looked into the G version and while I don't remember the details, it is not the overclocker that the P is. Unless I'm mistaken, the G doesn't have options to overclock at all.
    either way they are above the price range for me and this project so Ive already ruled them out not to mention the added cost of a decent CPU cooler. If the one I had gotten for my main rig was still on sale that would be different but it is back up to its normal price of $39.99.

    Still trying to decide on the mobo though, might go with the Asrock after all and hope I dont get annoyed by the video problem. Hopefuly I never have to touch them once they are all installed.
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  18. #18
    Just Another Retired Moderator Jon's Avatar
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    If you're looking for cheap cooling to at least 2.7GHz on an E4300, then you might want to consider the Sunbeam CR-SW-775. $19.99 at Newegg (OOS) and Xoxide.com. I've got one on mine and it works very well.

    Google checkout might net you $10 off from somewhere if you haven't used that yet.

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    When my ddr runs out the Asrock will no longer seem like such a bargain...but having said that I still have some left and when the price cuts come and hopefully we move to a quad or 2, the dual cores are going to have to go somewhere.

    Even with the OC limited its still very inexpensive... if the agp and ddr is already in hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pik4chu
    So then if you want an mATX board dont get an asus or you will have difficulty reaching a decent OC w/o modding?

    If that is the case what are some better options for mATX C2D capable boards?
    IRC the abit LG-95 945 based they will. the only other option would be that fatality ati 1250 mobo matx for c2d's. yes it does seem though that no matter what maxt board you use the pci speed does not stay in spec even if you a specced fsb. you would have to pad mod the e4300/e4400 for 266 to get the dividers to kick in at that fsb.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaCajun
    A stack of AM2 3600s in TForce550 boards with some cheap DDR2 on SMP clients will do the trick. About $180-200 per layer if you have the drives and PSUs.
    newegg has a deal on a am2 6100 mobo and am2 x2 3600+ combo for $109.


    *edit*
    forget the fatality name on this board.
    http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-F-FI90H
    i do have to say the red and black look nice but the ati chipset alone is why i would be after it. i saw some reviews of another ati chipset(matx board) a while back that was a c2d board from some of the eu/au forums it was a good little ocer.

    *edit 2*
    this is the combo package im talking about.

    * ECS GeForce6100SM-M (1.0) Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100S Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
    * AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+ Brisbane 1.9GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model ADO3600IAA5DL - OEM
    * Original price: $114.99
    * Discount: -$9.00
    * Combo Price: $105.99

    hmm it was $109 earlier today.

    *edit 3*
    this is a better deal here $89 for x2 3800+/ecs mobo
    http://www.netaffilia.com/ad/electro.../06/23896.html
    Last edited by Evilsizer; 04-09-07 at 08:29 PM.

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