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  1. #1
    Member White_Pawn's Avatar
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    Budget build, and when i mean budget, i mean REAL budget.

    Ok, basically, Tyreal and I are gonna build our friend a PC For his birthday. Well, its mostly Ty but i'll be helping out as well.

    Anyway, this is what we've got to work with.

    P4 unkknown speed but i think its a Northwood. I'm PRETTY sure its not a prescott but i could be wrong.
    intel mobo
    1 gig of ram. 2 x 512mb of geil ram 2.5-3-3-6 (they are mine, but i don't use them so w/e.)
    6600GT AGP (ty donated this one.)
    some weird psu.
    ULTRA grid case. (ty's donation.)

    at anyrate, we wan't to do this, but at the same time as cheaply as possible. We also live in canada, so no egg stuff for us. (although NCIX does quite a fair job.)

    Option 1
    Anyway. We've got a few options and lets start with the cheapest one.
    asrock mobo supports ddr/ddr2/agp/pci-e/sata2 uses a VIA chipset, so no OC options, but that won't matter much.

    Get a E2140 and just pad mod it to 1333mhz. Now, my first question, does this chipset/mobo support c2d and if it does, does it support 333mhz fsb?

    If we go this route, we'll reuse my ram and ty's videocard and possible swap his PSU to a hiper 580watt modular PSU. (one of our spares.)

    This would give us the most upgrade options and it would be the cheapest way out.

    Option 2
    AMD
    4000+ brisbane. (the 3600+ is more expensive than the 4000+.)
    some 690g matx mobo
    7900 XT GS 100 bucks. (or i can give him my 7600GT and i could upgrade.)
    some cheap 1 gig of ddr 667
    580watt hiper

    Option 3
    Better INTEL
    E2140
    gigabyte P35 S3L
    1 gig ddr 667
    same thing for videocard/psu etc.

    I'm actually leaning towards the via build, because it leaves us alot of room for future upgrade plans.
    - - M a i n R i g - -
    E2140 @ 375 x 8 = 3ghz w/ 1.3375v
    ^Tuniq Tower 120^
    Gigabyte P35-S3L
    powercolor HD4890 @ 850/975
    OCZ System 1337s 2x1 5-5-5-15 2T @ 450mhz.
    2TB 7200.12+ Seagate
    Silverstone Decathalon 650W Modular

  2. #2
    Member aja's Avatar
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    If you have the money I would say option 3 is the best thing you mentioned.

    My reason is that option one seems like you are wasting your money on old technology

  3. #3
    Member White_Pawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja View Post
    If you have the money I would say option 3 is the best thing you mentioned.

    My reason is that option one seems like you are wasting your money on old technology
    well, we aren't really wasting money. Sure we buy a mobo that can't OC, but it supports DDR2 and pci-e for future upgrades. Keep in mind, that doing a completely new build would cost the most money.

    However, we'll see how much money we'll have pooled together by the end of the month.
    - - M a i n R i g - -
    E2140 @ 375 x 8 = 3ghz w/ 1.3375v
    ^Tuniq Tower 120^
    Gigabyte P35-S3L
    powercolor HD4890 @ 850/975
    OCZ System 1337s 2x1 5-5-5-15 2T @ 450mhz.
    2TB 7200.12+ Seagate
    Silverstone Decathalon 650W Modular

  4. #4
    Member aja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White_Pawn View Post
    well, we aren't really wasting money. Sure we buy a mobo that can't OC, but it supports DDR2 and pci-e for future upgrades. Keep in mind, that doing a completely new build would cost the most money.

    However, we'll see how much money we'll have pooled together by the end of the month.
    Sorry, didn't mean wasting in a bad way.

    I mean that the guy would probably get better mileage from a complete new build using modern tech.

    But it you don't have the money option one is great and, as you said, does allow for extensive upgrade options.

    I am kinda leaning towards saying keep the setup as is:

    P4 unkknown speed but i think its a Northwood. I'm PRETTY sure its not a prescott but i could be wrong.
    intel mobo
    1 gig of ram. 2 x 512mb of geil ram 2.5-3-3-6 (they are mine, but i don't use them so w/e.)
    6600GT AGP (ty donated this one.)
    some weird psu.
    ULTRA grid case. (ty's donation.)

    Reason being that upgrading to better memory and graphics on that all-in-one VIA mobo will not help all that much imo. The cpu will hold him back.

    I would rather use what you have and maybe add more RAM or something.

    Are there o/c options on that intel mobo? I doubt it, but just asking....

  5. #5
    Member White_Pawn's Avatar
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    pad modded to 2.66ghz, i think the E2140 would be quite fast.

    Which leads to my most important question. Does this mobo support C2D and if so does it support 1333mhz fsb w/o change in pci/agp/pci-e frequency.

    If it doesn't we can always fork a lil money and get the E2160, which would do 2.4ghz with the 266mhz pad mod.
    - - M a i n R i g - -
    E2140 @ 375 x 8 = 3ghz w/ 1.3375v
    ^Tuniq Tower 120^
    Gigabyte P35-S3L
    powercolor HD4890 @ 850/975
    OCZ System 1337s 2x1 5-5-5-15 2T @ 450mhz.
    2TB 7200.12+ Seagate
    Silverstone Decathalon 650W Modular

  6. #6
    Member White_Pawn's Avatar
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    BUMP

    i also forgot to post the URL for this mobo!

    I'm a total idiot! LOL

    ok so it uses the PT800 Ultra chipset i believe.
    http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...facture=ASRock

    does it support 1333mhz cpus. I know at the specification it only says 1066mhz, but i can always hope. LOL
    - - M a i n R i g - -
    E2140 @ 375 x 8 = 3ghz w/ 1.3375v
    ^Tuniq Tower 120^
    Gigabyte P35-S3L
    powercolor HD4890 @ 850/975
    OCZ System 1337s 2x1 5-5-5-15 2T @ 450mhz.
    2TB 7200.12+ Seagate
    Silverstone Decathalon 650W Modular

  7. #7
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    You are nice for your friend. Just do whatever is cheapest for you. Don't worry about upgrading it because by that time, you might as well get new everything again.

  8. #8
    Member aja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White_Pawn View Post
    BUMP

    i also forgot to post the URL for this mobo!

    I'm a total idiot! LOL

    ok so it uses the PT800 Ultra chipset i believe.
    http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...facture=ASRock

    does it support 1333mhz cpus. I know at the specification it only says 1066mhz, but i can always hope. LOL
    Unfortunately the only way you will reach 1333 on that motherboard is by raising the FSB manually. If you pad mod to 333 the motherboard will probably not boot. Even if a BIOS update exists that makes it compatible with 1333FSB CPU's, the manufacturer normally says that you have to manually raise the FSB to 1333, as it will boot at 1066 by default. That chipset is dated, so I really doubt that it will have native 1333FSB support.

    Also, I would be weary of such a motherboard. As a result of the bus being shared by AGP and such, the slots typically run very slowly. So the PCIe might not run at 16x but only 4x. This is only on some motherboards, not necesserily this one, but it is something to take note of.

    If you get this motherboard I would rather use an E2180 and pad mod to 266. That way you will be running it at 2.6GHz, which you said you would be happy with.

    Have a read through the customer reviews

  9. #9
    Member aja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trottel View Post
    You are nice for your friend. Just do whatever is cheapest for you. Don't worry about upgrading it because by that time, you might as well get new everything again.
    yes he is being nice to his friend, but he is being even nicer by actually considering the merits of owning the system he is about to give away. Instead of giving him a bunch of old crap, he is actually thinking about how to get some actual value out of the setup.

  10. #10
    Member aja's Avatar
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    have a look at the product list - there are some 1333 mobos available that also have the mix and match slots.

    CPU support list of the mobo you linked to

    supports E2140;E2160 and E2180 with a BIOS update

  11. #11
    Member White_Pawn's Avatar
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    i just read:

    Untied Overclocking : During Overclocking, FSB enjoys better margin due to fixed AGP/PCIE/ PCI Buses
    :O does this mean there is pci/agp/pci-e locks? This also implies that this mobo could potentially OC. This would be perfect, as i could just slip a e2140 in and easily get 2.8-3ghz.

    I think that is set in stone then, this mobo plus e2140 would cost ~$150. We'll look into videocard shortly after.

    This also means i may just hand over my e2140 and get a small upgrade to a M0 e2180.

    Hopefully i'll be able to get 3.4ghz out of a e2180.
    - - M a i n R i g - -
    E2140 @ 375 x 8 = 3ghz w/ 1.3375v
    ^Tuniq Tower 120^
    Gigabyte P35-S3L
    powercolor HD4890 @ 850/975
    OCZ System 1337s 2x1 5-5-5-15 2T @ 450mhz.
    2TB 7200.12+ Seagate
    Silverstone Decathalon 650W Modular

  12. #12
    Member aja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White_Pawn View Post
    i just read:



    :O does this mean there is pci/agp/pci-e locks? This also implies that this mobo could potentially OC. This would be perfect, as i could just slip a e2140 in and easily get 2.8-3ghz.

    I think that is set in stone then, this mobo plus e2140 would cost ~$150. We'll look into videocard shortly after.

    This also means i may just hand over my e2140 and get a small upgrade to a M0 e2180.

    Hopefully i'll be able to get 3.4ghz out of a e2180.
    I also wandered about the PCI locks - it would seem it does have them! By the wording of the specs, I am leaning towards saying that the BIOS probably locks them by default.

    I really think the 2180 is a better idea. You are more likely to reach higher clock speeds with that chip.

    What video card are you looking at currently?

    EDIT: sorry, I misread your post about the 2140 and 2180 thing. I get it now...

  13. #13

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    I would go with option 2, but skip on the graphics card. Give your friend a decent, stable, overclockable AM2 build with a Brisbane proc and Biostar TForce 7025 or 7050 board and a gig of dual-channel RAM. Let him run with integrated graphics and sound until he can afford to spring for a solid video card (hopefully an 8800GTS at some point). Grab a Corsair HX520 from Buy.com for about eighty bucks shipped.

    Does he need a hard drive? I like WD's Caviar SE16 250gb model, about $70.

    Total cost of mobo, proc, RAM, PSU and HD: About $350-360 shipped, and that's with the current combo deal at Newegg of the Biostar TForce 7025 and Brisbane 4800+ (2.5ghz). If you already have a hard drive and power supply, then that drops to about $200 for mobo, proc and memory. You could also go with one of Biostar's full-ATX mobos for the about the same price if you want to give your friend more flexibility for the future.
    \m/ OverClockers mATX L33T Club \m/

    MOBO....Gigabyte....GA-MA785GPMT-UD2H
    .............................HT Link : 222 x 11 = 2442
    CPU.......AMD..........1090T : 222 x 18.5 = 4107 @ 1.475v, 46*C
    .............................CPU-NB : 222 x 12 = 2664 @ 1.225v
    RAM.......GSkill........2x4gb Ripjaws DDR3 : 222 x 6.67 = 1480 @ 1.6v
    GPU.......XFX...........5870 1gb : 938/1325 @ 1.2v, 70*C
    SSD.......OCZ..........Vertex II 120gb
    HDD.......WD...........Caviar Blue 320gb
    CASE......Antec........P180 Mini
    PSU.......Corsair.......HX650

  14. #14
    Member White_Pawn's Avatar
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    we've already got psus and HDDs, so its just cpu/mobo/ram/videocard.

    Thing is, if we go option one, we don't need to buy ram, and we can reuse the 6600GT, which is far superior over the onboard graphics.

    Actually, this ends up leading to my next question. Do you think this mobo would come with down dividers for the DDR ram? I know for intel, ddr2 there is no chance. I know for AMD, there have always been dividers for DDR. Anyway, this is a concern, as the ram we would be using is rated ddr400, (200mhz.) which would be the stock fsb for the e21xx series. That means without dividers, OCing would be very limited. I'm guessing we'd get ~240mhz max even with overvolting for the ram.
    - - M a i n R i g - -
    E2140 @ 375 x 8 = 3ghz w/ 1.3375v
    ^Tuniq Tower 120^
    Gigabyte P35-S3L
    powercolor HD4890 @ 850/975
    OCZ System 1337s 2x1 5-5-5-15 2T @ 450mhz.
    2TB 7200.12+ Seagate
    Silverstone Decathalon 650W Modular

  15. #15

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    Well, the board I listed is a DDR2 board. If you're holding a gig of DDR1 RAM, then you may as well just buy some more. It's either that or go with an AMD 939 board or an Intel 478 board, and both of those platforms are seeing (or starting to see) price increases due to lack of available new parts.

    To further answer your question, yes, that Biostar board would offer dividers. I'm unaware of any overclockable AMD mobos sporting sockets 754/939/AM2 that wouldn't offer you a variety of dividers.

    CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU gives you a few options. If you don't want to give your friend an integrated-graphics computer (which would save you guys money in the short term and give your friend the option of graphics upgrade choices in the future) then you could go with anything from a 7600 up to an 8600 depending on your budget. Personally, I'd go with the mobo/cpu combo from Newegg I listed above, add a gig of dual-channel DDR2 ram (or two if you can swing it) and an 8600GTS, either 256 or 512 mb, your choice. The 256 cards will be around 150-170, but bank on around $200 for the 512 versions. If you went with one gig of RAM and a 512, you could be right at $400 plus a few more bucks for shipping. Or you could go with two gigs of RAM and a 256 card for the same price. Is your friend more of a gamer or a multitasker/browser? That will dictate your ultimate decision between these two setups.

    A lot of people would probably advise you to go with two gigs of RAM and an ATI x1950 card, which is certainly a good setup for the money, but your friend will be limited to DX9 at that point until he upgrades to a DX10 card.
    \m/ OverClockers mATX L33T Club \m/

    MOBO....Gigabyte....GA-MA785GPMT-UD2H
    .............................HT Link : 222 x 11 = 2442
    CPU.......AMD..........1090T : 222 x 18.5 = 4107 @ 1.475v, 46*C
    .............................CPU-NB : 222 x 12 = 2664 @ 1.225v
    RAM.......GSkill........2x4gb Ripjaws DDR3 : 222 x 6.67 = 1480 @ 1.6v
    GPU.......XFX...........5870 1gb : 938/1325 @ 1.2v, 70*C
    SSD.......OCZ..........Vertex II 120gb
    HDD.......WD...........Caviar Blue 320gb
    CASE......Antec........P180 Mini
    PSU.......Corsair.......HX650

  16. #16
    Member White_Pawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayward_Son View Post
    Well, the board I listed is a DDR2 board. If you're holding a gig of DDR1 RAM, then you may as well just buy some more. It's either that or go with an AMD 939 board or an Intel 478 board, and both of those platforms are seeing (or starting to see) price increases due to lack of available new parts.

    To further answer your question, yes, that Biostar board would offer dividers. I'm unaware of any overclockable AMD mobos sporting sockets 754/939/AM2 that wouldn't offer you a variety of dividers.

    CPU/MOBO/RAM/GPU gives you a few options. If you don't want to give your friend an integrated-graphics computer (which would save you guys money in the short term and give your friend the option of graphics upgrade choices in the future) then you could go with anything from a 7600 up to an 8600 depending on your budget. Personally, I'd go with the mobo/cpu combo from Newegg I listed above, add a gig of dual-channel DDR2 ram (or two if you can swing it) and an 8600GTS, either 256 or 512 mb, your choice. The 256 cards will be around 150-170, but bank on around $200 for the 512 versions. If you went with one gig of RAM and a 512, you could be right at $400 plus a few more bucks for shipping. Or you could go with two gigs of RAM and a 256 card for the same price. Is your friend more of a gamer or a multitasker/browser? That will dictate your ultimate decision between these two setups.

    A lot of people would probably advise you to go with two gigs of RAM and an ATI x1950 card, which is certainly a good setup for the money, but your friend will be limited to DX9 at that point until he upgrades to a DX10 card.
    i was actually referring to the asrock mobo i posted. I was wondering whether THAT mobo would support down dividers for DDR ram.

    At this point, going with options 2 or 3 is out of the picture. (most likely)
    - - M a i n R i g - -
    E2140 @ 375 x 8 = 3ghz w/ 1.3375v
    ^Tuniq Tower 120^
    Gigabyte P35-S3L
    powercolor HD4890 @ 850/975
    OCZ System 1337s 2x1 5-5-5-15 2T @ 450mhz.
    2TB 7200.12+ Seagate
    Silverstone Decathalon 650W Modular

  17. #17
    Epic Fail Guy JamesXP's Avatar
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    It probably will support down dvideers I'd get you a e2180+7900GT/X1950, slip him your 2140 and 7600GT
    i5 3570K @ 4.5GHz
    Thermalright Macho 120
    ASRock Z77 Pro4
    8GB Kingston HyperX 1600MHz
    128GB Samsung 830 SSD
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    EVGA Supernova 750G2
    Corsair 650D

  18. #18
    Member White_Pawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesXP View Post
    It probably will support down dvideers I'd get you a e2180+7900GT/X1950, slip him your 2140 and 7600GT
    that's what i was thinking. For sure the e2180... (i'd like to have m0) a videocard, i'm gonna hold for hd2950pro/8800GT
    - - M a i n R i g - -
    E2140 @ 375 x 8 = 3ghz w/ 1.3375v
    ^Tuniq Tower 120^
    Gigabyte P35-S3L
    powercolor HD4890 @ 850/975
    OCZ System 1337s 2x1 5-5-5-15 2T @ 450mhz.
    2TB 7200.12+ Seagate
    Silverstone Decathalon 650W Modular

  19. #19
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    I posted to another thread about the 4COREDUAL-SATA2 board. You may find it helpful. Its post #38.
    The E2180 will yield the fastest speed for under $100, with the bsel mod you should get 2.99Ghz if the clock doesn't crap out before you get to 299fsb. Seems 300 is not working on many of these boards, including mine, but 299 is stable. You can't get there unless you do the bsel mod. Unknown why not. Perhaps someone reading this thread can fill us in.
    Anyway, here is the link to my rather lengthy post.


    http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=532201&highlight=e2140&page=2[/URL]

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