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  1. #1

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    Question Wireless network for many business users: 2 questions

    My uncles own a jewelry exchange spot where about a dozen businesses reside, each with their own jewelry booth.

    He got Optimum Online cable service and I've got 2 questions:
    #1 - Is this going to be lacking? Would Optimum Boost be enough? I don't know if he can get Verizon FIOS as I don't think it's set up in his area.
    #2 - He wants wireless for everyone. I believe I'll need some industrial type wireless router. Any recommendations?

    I told him it may be $500+ for a good wireless router to hold up 10+ people on the internet at the same time and he understands.

    I told him wiring the place would be best, but right now we're not going through with that.

    Thanks for any help.
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  2. #2
    Epic Fail Guy JamesXP's Avatar
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    What are teh clients going to be download/uploading? if its just light web usage, optimum online should be good, I'm not too sure on the wireless part of things, but you could look at the cisco offerering, e.g 851W.., but the range also counts, how far does thsi wireless need to go? how many walls to pass?
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  3. #3
    Member Rider200's Avatar
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    You need to find out what will be between the wireless router and the computers, any solid walls? What about the lighting. The more copper and other metals between the router and the computers will degrade the signal. If the router can be mounted on the celling (I worked at a Hoenywell plant where the routers were attached to the celling and would connect to computers in offices at about 75 feet with out problems) or you may want to use a couple of signal boosters. If the router is out in the open and there isn't any substantial interfearance between the router and comptuers then you should be ok, test and if you need then get the signal boosters.

    I put a signal booster on a router that was inside a house and could get an Excellent signal over 200 feet away.

    HTH...

  4. #4

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    Thanks for the posts Rider and James.

    So... the business is one floor, and I'd say about 75ft x 75ft (just roughly estimating off the top of my head). Also, since it's a bunch of jewelry booths, there's a lot of metal around the place, and lighting.

    I would assume everyone is just going to use email and browse... nothing crazy. I'd say there's roughly 12 businesses/booths there and a few people at each booth. I don't assume that everyone at every booth with be online... What do you think 5-10 people browsing at the same time is what I'll guess.

    So that's about it... does that help?

    Any links to nice industrial/commercial wireless routers, or should I just get a beefy home-grade one? I truly don't know much about other types of wireless routers... only seen them where I used to do IT work (just never had to mess with the big wireless routers).

    Also, the cable modem is at one corner of the place... I'm not sure if I can get the router far away from the modem like in the middle of the place. If you saw the ceiling is best, that's what we'll do.
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  5. #5
    gangaskan's Avatar
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    thought about a smoothwall or ipcop box?



    that may be more than whats needed

    edit: and yeah, something like a 851 may be too small for 15 wifi users. the 871 can be upgraded with bigger flash and memory, keep that in mind, the 851 cannot. if you do end up buying a cisco wifi router, the SDM (Security device manager) helps the configuration, but its good practice to console it


    let me check to see what other enterprise routers are out there, but realistically, you may be better off with a decent machine as a FW and using it as an AP


    edit 2 : 1811W would be a nice choice

    specs:
    Memory

    * RAM 128 MB (installed) / 384 MB (max) - SDRAM
    * Flash Memory 32 MB (installed) / 128 MB (max)
    you can also do IPS with it too. it can do a / b / g also has a 8 port 10/100 switch'
    has tons of features and better than the 871
    Last edited by gangaskan; 11-03-08 at 08:56 PM.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by gangaskan View Post
    thought about a smoothwall or ipcop box?



    that may be more than whats needed
    I need wireless though.
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  7. #7
    gangaskan's Avatar
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    you cant incorporate wifi in those? i thought you could whooops!
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by gangaskan View Post
    you cant incorporate wifi in those? i thought you could whooops!
    Isn't that the same thing as saying wireless?? That's what I wanna do, but can a regular home-grade wireless router handle 12 booths like that?

    I would say that there would be about 5x the amount of traffic of a normal home (being in use during business hours).
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0dM@n View Post
    Isn't that the same thing as saying wireless?? That's what I wanna do, but can a regular home-grade wireless router handle 12 booths like that?

    I would say that there would be about 5x the amount of traffic of a normal home (being in use during business hours).
    as far as i know, the more users you throw at wifi the slower your available bandwidth will be due to the collision avoidance.

    do they all have wireliss nic's in the machines? there is a way to test
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by gangaskan View Post
    as far as i know, the more users you throw at wifi the slower your available bandwidth will be due to the collision avoidance.

    do they all have wireliss nic's in the machines? there is a way to test
    It doesn't matter if they have wireless NICs or not. If they don't, that's their problem. He just wants to have wireless available, and we can just take it from there.

    As far as having a ton of people on wifi... that's why I wanted to see if I should get a beefy wireless router/AP... assuming it may handle the load better.

    No one knows anything about the industrial wireless routers??

    For example:
    CISCO CISCO871W-G-A-K9 Integrated Services Routers for Small Offices
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  11. #11
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    i honestly never had no more than 4 people on at a AP at a time.
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  12. #12

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    Anyone?

    I need to wrap this up ASAP.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0dM@n View Post
    Anyone?

    I need to wrap this up ASAP.


    doing a little googleing i came up with This

    they're in the same if not similar situation as you

    also, if you do go with a 871W and are a little bit intimidated in configuring it tech republic has a great guide and all you have to do is copy and paste commands after you run their little macros inside the excel sheet.

    edit: here is the link http://articles.techrepublic.com.com...1-6102399.html

    you can choose not to use the "guest" network if you do not want it. just dont input the commands to initate the vlan 20 and anything associated with vlan 20 or the guest wifi configruation.


    gah Edit 2 : that spreadsheet is also used for DSL, but you will need some help bridging your Cable over, let me know. i have mine set up just perfect.
    Last edited by gangaskan; 11-05-08 at 09:39 AM.
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  14. #14

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    gangaskan, thanks for the link.

    It looks like DD-WRT or Tomato can even handle the load!! I've used DD-WRT before, but not Tomato.

    Anyone have experience with those and know how to tweak QoS correctly? I don't know how to use QoS.
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  15. #15
    gangaskan's Avatar
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    ive rarely played with the QoS but i'll be willing to help
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by gangaskan View Post
    ive rarely played with the QoS but i'll be willing to help
    Thanks. Hopefully I can get this figured out soon. If a linksys wireless G with DD-WRT will work then I may just go that route... I just didn't know it could handle a dozen users at the same time. That one guy said his handles 80+ users, but of course not all of them are on simultaneously.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0dM@n View Post
    It doesn't matter if they have wireless NICs or not. If they don't, that's their problem. He just wants to have wireless available, and we can just take it from there.

    As far as having a ton of people on wifi... that's why I wanted to see if I should get a beefy wireless router/AP... assuming it may handle the load better.

    No one knows anything about the industrial wireless routers??

    For example:
    CISCO CISCO871W-G-A-K9 Integrated Services Routers for Small Offices
    You will definitly want a good wireless router that is a given. You will want to run WPA encryption not WEP, which might mean some clients need to buy new wireless devices. So be it. This is in their best interest. Even 128bit WEP can be cracked easily.

    Another thing to consider is building reflectors on your wireless antenna on your router.

    This has a two fold effect. It makes the antenna less omni directional, increasing gain on the one side of the reflector. But it has a security benefit as well, there will be no wireless reception behind the reflector

    Then with a powerful wireless AP, you can mount the router ceiling height on the first floor on the back wall for instance. Put the reflector on it to prevent the waves from going back thorugh the wall and it increases the gain going forward.


    This is just in case any business is done on the network. You do not to give people easy acccess.

    Best bet would be wired ethernet to all the tables. A real cheap ipcop/smoothwall as mentioned, and a nice 16-24port switch for wired.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neur0mancer View Post
    You will definitly want a good wireless router that is a given. You will want to run WPA encryption not WEP, which might mean some clients need to buy new wireless devices. So be it. This is in their best interest. Even 128bit WEP can be cracked easily.

    Another thing to consider is building reflectors on your wireless antenna on your router.

    This has a two fold effect. It makes the antenna less omni directional, increasing gain on the one side of the reflector. But it has a security benefit as well, there will be no wireless reception behind the reflector

    Then with a powerful wireless AP, you can mount the router ceiling height on the first floor on the back wall for instance. Put the reflector on it to prevent the waves from going back thorugh the wall and it increases the gain going forward.


    This is just in case any business is done on the network. You do not to give people easy acccess.

    Best bet would be wired ethernet to all the tables. A real cheap ipcop/smoothwall as mentioned, and a nice 16-24port switch for wired.
    My uncle wants wireless. I already discussed this with him. Wiring would be a pain in the butt for sure and I'm not sure if he's ready for that.

    So you say get a business class wireless router, and a nice AP? Could you recommend what combos exactly you're thinking of with links? Sry to be a pain in the butt. I'd like to do this right the 1st time and my knowledge is as good as yours.
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  19. #19
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    Not that this is exactly what your looking for, but at my work we have a group that comes in for a monthly meeting all with there laptops and connect via wifi to a DSL connection we have setup for them outside of our network. There are 14 Laptops and they all browse quite heavily as the meeting material is all hosted online. The Wifi router is only a Linksys WRT54GS with the stock firmware. The distance is probably less then 40 ft. but the router is located in the basement and they are the floor above that so it has some obstacles. Hope this helps some?

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiteemcee View Post
    Not that this is exactly what your looking for, but at my work we have a group that comes in for a monthly meeting all with there laptops and connect via wifi to a DSL connection we have setup for them outside of our network. There are 14 Laptops and they all browse quite heavily as the meeting material is all hosted online. The Wifi router is only a Linksys WRT54GS with the stock firmware. The distance is probably less then 40 ft. but the router is located in the basement and they are the floor above that so it has some obstacles. Hope this helps some?
    It does. Makes me realize I might not need a $300-600 wireless router.
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