Weighing water - Thoughts?

I bit on the D4 deal for $29 because it's a $70-75 pump and I've just been washing the idea of water around in my head.

I'm a 1xGPU kind of guy, I never go crazy on multi-GPU set ups, but I'm in the process of upgrading my rig and I'm weighing air versus water.

I know the age old arguments. You see, I'm kind of a prehistoric modder. I used to over-clock back in the Socket A days when you could get a mobile Athlon XP because it ran cooler and over-clock it on a desktop motherboard.

I know physically air can never move heat as efficiently as water and I know water is potentially quieter. I also know that air has evolved so rapidly that the difference between a high end air system and a low end water system is nigh none. I also know that water blocks have evolved to the point where the only real benefit of higher end blocks is the quality of finish and the resistance.

The thing is, I'll never buy a Thermalright product. As a product reviewer, I had to learn through hard experience about just how much they care about the legitimacy of their products' reviews. Being told I had to lap an Ultra 120 heatsink before I could publish my results, even though a lapping kit wasn't included, and then being told I wouldn't get Thermalright products for testing wasn't a very solid experience for me. So when it comes to air, the best air I would get would be a Xigmatek HDT-S1283 or the Kingwin Revolution variation, or maybe a Vendetta 2.

The main reason I would go with water over air is because water kits have very reusable parts. The radiator, reservoir and pump will most likely be reusable in future builds. The GPU block might be, the CPU block would most likely need to be changed in future builds. With air, one generation to the next you'd need a completely different heatsink. Air heatsinks for video-cards are also nowhere near as evolved as CPU heatsinks.

That being said, would I really see a benefit of going with water comparing the following two builds?

1) Swiftech Apogee GT - It's much less restrictive than the Fuzion/GTZ and only 1.5'ish degrees hotter, but it's also $15-35 cheaper. Great trade off.

2) XSPC RS360 - Martin from Xtremesystems gave this radiator a great review. It was almost as good as the Thermochill 120.3 but less than half the price. It's even cheaper than the Swiftech QP 320.

3) Swiftech Laing D4/ MCP650 - It was only $30. Some people report issues with a whining noise, but I can't imagine it being any louder than my crappy fan set up I have now. I always have movies or games going too.

4) Swiftech MCW-60R - This water block always gets great reviews and I've seen people re-using it from the G80 two years ago until now, just by using different mounting positions. I can't see myself going with a full coverage that'll end up being thrown on Ebay for $20 versus the $100 I spent on it.

5) Swiftech MCRES-Micro - Is there any reason to go with something else? A T-Line? I like this one because it's easy to mount somewhere hidden.

6) Yate Loon Mediums and I'll use my Sunbeam Rheobus to control their speed.

Now if I went air, I would get:

1) Xigmatek HDT-S1283 - With swapped out fan for a Yate Loon.

2) Continue to use my Accelero S1 Rev 2 but throw a Yate Loon on it instead of the Scythe Flex I have on it now.

3) Add Yate Loon mediums to my current set up to get rid of the crappy fans I have and control them with my Rheobus.

All this would be to cool a Q6600 and HD4870.

Well since this is a WC forum, your on target and know what is right, I'd go water. You made fine choices, go for it.

For a Q6600, water is a great cooling solution. My original Apogee, MCW-60, and MCR-320, cooled both my Q6600 and x1900XTX flawlessly. I loved having that extra cooling performance over air. Which led to me being able to run the quad at 3.8Ghz 24/7. If I didn't have to sell it off for money, I would have definitely kept my setup for future desktop builds.

As for res or t-line, I always used the t-line. I had a bay res for a little while and hated it. (never used that MCRES, though) Plus, the t-fitting was like $1 at Lowes. I ran some high speed Deltas controlled via the Sunbeam but those Yate Loons are great for lower noise setups.

my q6600 is loving the water i have cooling it. great temps with a great overclock and option to benchmark at 4.2GHz. i too picked up the $30 (47 for me after shipping and USD to CAN currency, still a good deal) laing D4. i plan to get a second MCR320, 6 high speed yates and Swiftech MCW60 for my 9800GTX then see if i can't get more from the volt mod i have on it.

you picked out great parts and seems like you did your research.

Your set up looks pretty solid. I snagged an Apogee GT off a forum for a good price and it has been performing quite well. I haven't heard of too many people using the XSPC rad; I'm interested to find out how well it performs in peoples loops.

The only thing you left out is tubes, barbs, clamps and coolent. Tubes: I recommend 7/16"ID, 11/16"OD tygon 3606 tubes. If you want your setup to look good, get UV tubes, not dyes. Barbs + clamp: For good seal, get 12mm ID, 14mm OD bitspower barb + clamps.

For coolent, just use distilled water + PT_nuke. Just a few drops of it will do as too much may corrode the metal. Alternatively, "Petra'sTech PT_Nuke -PHN Concentrated Biocide" or "[URL="http://www.petrastechshop.com/sikibyia.html"]Silver KillCoils by iandh". [/URL]I don't know how well those work though.

If you want the lowest cost, go with sidewindercomputers.com. I find their customer service good and their prices are cheaper than PTS and most other online retailers. Also, ask them for a coupon to discount the shipping price reflected vs the actual shipping cost. I'm not sure why there is a discrepency in price.

Blazing fire said:

The only thing you left out is tubes, barbs, clamps and coolent. Tubes: I recommend 7/16"ID, 11/16"OD tygon 3606 tubes. If you want your setup to look good, get UV tubes, not dyes. Barbs + clamp: For good seal, get 12mm ID, 14mm OD bitspower barb + clamps.

For coolent, just use distilled water + PT_nuke. Just a few drops of it will do as too much may corrode the metal. Alternatively, "Petra'sTech PT_Nuke -PHN Concentrated Biocide" or "[URL="http://www.petrastechshop.com/sikibyia.html"]Silver KillCoils by iandh". [/URL]I don't know how well those work though.

If you want the lowest cost, go with sidewindercomputers.com. I find their customer service good and their prices are cheaper than PTS and most other online retailers. Also, ask them for a coupon to discount the shipping price reflected vs the actual shipping cost. I'm not sure why there is a discrepency in price.

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I was planning on emailing them to see if I could work something out, as I was going to mention them in my next Youtube video. My first Youtube video where I do a build with a 4870 got over 40,000 views and 100+ subscribers and a lot of people were asking me where they should get parts, how they can build their system. It seems like there's a lot of people out there with a desire to build and no where to seek advice, I even mentioned OCForums. Mentioning Sidewinders would get them a lot of well deserved recognition as I've ordered from them on more than one occasion and they always ship fast and ship quality parts to me.

People expressed a desire to get the Akasa Vortexx Neo and they got it on their site for US buyers.

My only gripe is that Jab-Tech.com has way better prices on the blocks and Petra's it seems, has more options and selection for the tubing. I'd like to go through Sidewinder as I've ordered a few times from them, but I'd have to pay a premium.

Jab-Tech also has a customer service account on OCF. I mean how cool is that? Way easy to contact for support and questions.

This is what it's winding down to look like-
Swiftech Apogee GT $39.95

Swiftech MCW60-R $39.95

XSPC R360 Radiator $49.95

And for tubing, clamps and liquid, I agree with what you said. I wanted to use PT Nuke, UV reactive tubes and some nice clamps. I don't want to risk a leak, at ALL. And I know quality clamps will be reusable in any build. I was concerned with corrosion so I wanted to avoid using a coolant and go with a distilled water + additive route. Should I add that stuff that prevents algae or is that unnecessary?

Also, should I use standard 120mm shrouds?

Jab-tech has always been great for me, and their prices even better. Although you can probably get tubing cheaper at McMaster. They make you order like 25 feet but it's nice to have the extra tubing at hand.

The only way you're going to prevent growth in your loop is with opaque tubing. (like that silver or black stuff) I've tried so many different additives but always end up with a little white film in the tubing after a couple months.

As for clamps, check your local hardware store. You should be able to find the stainless steel ones for pretty cheap. I think I got mine at Lowes.

inkfx said:

The only way you're going to prevent growth in your loop is with opaque tubing. (like that silver or black stuff) I've tried so many different additives but always end up with a little white film in the tubing after a couple months.

As for clamps, check your local hardware store. You should be able to find the stainless steel ones for pretty cheap. I think I got mine at Lowes.

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The little white film has nothing to do with growth. White film is a result of the plasticizer. PT Nuke is a good algaecide/biocide.

Congratulations for doing your homework. It is nice to read someone who is new but has spent some time doing some reading and researching.

The D4 is a good pump. I will say however that to me, the cheap cost is not worth the loud, very nerve racking whine. It about drove me nuts when I had one. Most people will find that it gets on their nerves after a while. I personally would buy a stock MCP350 from Newegg for $55 before I'd buy that. I just don't see any reason to have a loud watercooling setup when you can have a quiet one that performs just as well.

Also, when it comes to ordering tubing, do yourself a favor and order about twice as much as you think you will need. So help me if you don't, you will be sitting there one day and need it and have to wait on an order to come in. I use cheaper Masterkleer tubing and order about 30' at a time.

Jab-tech, Petras, and Sidewinders are all great places to buy watercooling and other stuff from and I have used them all many times.

If you want nice metal worm-drive clamps, Mcmaster has these: "Type 430 Stainless Steel Nonperforated Worm-Drive Hose and Tube Clamps". They are the best metal clamps I have seen, and cost about what hardware store clamps cost. These clamps are smooth lined don't cut into the tubing. Mcmaster also has some serious black plastic clamps.

voigts said:

The D4 is a good pump. I will say however that to me, the cheap cost is not worth the loud, very nerve racking whine. It about drove me nuts when I had one. Most people will find that it gets on their nerves after a while. I personally would buy a stock MCP350 from Newegg for $55 before I'd buy that. I just don't see any reason to have a loud watercooling setup when you can have a quiet one that performs just as well.

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I've heard of this somewhere too. Thanks for confirming what I've read!

Btw, the MCP655 i used also had a high pitch whine on 5. Do you recommend MCP355/350 for a slient PC?