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Dolk's Guide to the Phenom II

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You don't touch the NB you touch the CPU-NB which is located on the CPU die itself.
 
Oh ok. Well undervolted @3.3 my temps are fantastic. CPU-NB, ill try raising the multi
 
You don't want to raise it to high. You may actually see a decrease in performance if you go to high.
 
The default multi is 9 for CPU-NB? And just to reiterate, I do not need to raise HT multi with NB multi, the bios has some kind of notice about syncing the speeds if they don't match. I was looking at the graphs in your thread, seemed like 2.2ghz would be optimal CPU_NB for 3.3ghz cpu speed. Is that a speed normally attainable @stock voltage =)

edit: Some reading around answered my questions mostly. As long as its okay to leave HT at 1.8 I am gravy. Seems to have had no effect on stability either.
Current setup
malaspeedsc.jpg
 
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Dolk, Any ideas?

Dolk, any ideas about any of my entries on this page?

Most have responded that if I can run at 3.6Ghz at reduced voltage (1.25V), I should consider myself lucky and just run with that.
 
3.6 at 1.25V is fantastic. I would run that no questions asked. Of course it needs more testing, but that is a great result even for 30 minutes stable.

Your chip is acting very oddly though I must say. Mine is very predictable being stable at stock volts up to 3.5, then a bump to 1.4 for 3.6, bump to 1.45 for 3.7, and one more bump to 1.5V for 3.8. I haven't tested beyond that because temps get too high.

I run my HT link higher than 1.8 though, it sits at 2160mHz with my CPU at 15x240 (3.6). My board does not allow properly control the HT link speed if I try to change the multiplier. Anyway this setup is 17+ hours prime stable. My memory I run at 4x240 (960) because it is unstable at a 3:8 ratio for some reason. The nice even 1:2 ratio is rock solid. My NB i have at 10x240 (2.4GHz for the mathematically impaired).
 
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WildWillie I believe you hit something that I like to call a Cold Wall. Basically it is the maximum speed attainable on a AM3 board a factor Y delta CPU temperature. So basically even though your chip is no where near the 55C max temp you are at a temp max that the socket doesn't like. I know your Temps are ~40C but I bet if you dropped it down to ~20C you would be able to do 3.7ghz with little voltage boost.

This Cold Wall is something new that I have been exploring but if you can some how test to see if I am right, you will have greatly helped my understanding of the AM3 socket.
 
Well its not a heat wall its a wall of some sort and it means that you just need to cool the computer using extreme solutions in order to continue further.

Whats the definition of a heat wall?
 
Given the lowest stable vCore at stock speeds, as you OC you have to raise the vCore to remain stable. But raising the vCore increases the heat generated by the CPU, which results in a decrease of stability. As the OC and vCore keeps increasing, so does the heat and it's attending instability. At some point you reach equilibrium. Increasing the vCore to stabilize a higher clock causes an equal (or higher) decrease in stability due to the extra heat generated by the increase in vCore. You've hit the heat wall. :)

This also explains why better cooling results in better OC's. The rise in core temp for a given increase in vCore is less for better cooling solutions, so the instability hit is less as well. Eventually you still reach the heat wall but it's at a higher vCore/clock than the less efficient cooling solution. I've always heard it called a heat wall and I assume it's because the heat is the real culprit here. Your "cold wall" is very, very similar. In both cases a better cooling solution is needed for higher OC's, whether that be an upgrade from a stock cooler to a TRUE or WC, or whether it's from WC to phase I don't see a difference. :shrug:


Man, did any of that make sense ...?
 
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Hmm then I guess I'll have to change it to the heat wall.
 
Thanks for all the help.

I have one of the best water cooling systems running great and nearly silent. I was really hoping to get further with the overclock. I had read that most reviewers (see below) achieved 3.6-4.0Ghz with decent air cooling. I thought that with a kickass water cooling setup, I could go even farther. I wouldn't think that a heat wall would be hit at ~40 degrees C. Maybe I just have a dud. It makes sense that AMD would send out their best chips (highest overclocking headroom) to the reviewers. I feel a little duped.

3.5Ghz (air) ClubOverclocker.com
3.7Ghz (water) ClubOverclocker.com
3.8Ghz (air) Neoseeker.com
3.6Ghz (air) CPU3D.com
4.0Ghz (air) XTReview.com
3.75Ghz (air) FiringSquad.com
3.6Ghz (air) TrustedReviews.com
3.8Ghz (air) AtomicMPC.com
3.6Ghz (air) TechTree.com
3.8Ghz (air) Guru3d.com
3.7Ghz (air) ExtremeOverclocking.com
4.0Ghz (phase Chage) ExtremeOverclocking
3.8Ghz (air) AMDZone.com
 
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Settings tried.

CPU settings are covered at the top of page three of this discussion.

I have tried CPU voltages up to 1.600V. I don't like to run there. I have tried all combinations of HTT and CPU-NB speeds. I have tried many CPU-NB voltages. Since I have the Black Edition, I have been using the CPU multiplier only for overclocking. Things go great up to and including 3.6Ghz. I can run there at stock voltage and am stable all the way down to 1.25V. I have not been able to reach stability at 3.7Ghz or above.

CPU-Z always show exactly the voltage entered in BIOS. All HTT and CPU-NB changes also appear to follow in CPU-Z.

I have tried to follow Dolk's guide on CPU-NB frequency and voltage. Like I said, nothing seems to work above 3.6Ghz. I think that if I knew what was causing the problem, I would be able to figure this out. It seems strange that to overclock these CPU's, one must also over/underclock the HTT and CPU-NB. Also, I have heard that on some systems there are overclocking problems if the RAM is running at 3:8 ratio as mine is. So, my instability problem is one of the following:
1. Need more CPU Volts
2. Need to Overclock HTT
3. Need to underclock HTT
4. Need to Overclock CPU-NB
5. Need to Underclock CPU-NB
6. Need to add voltage to CPU-NB if overclocked.
7. My motherboard has this 3:8 Ram ratio instability and I need to try running at 800Mhz or 1:2 ratio.
8. I have reached this mysterious heat wall at ~40 degrees C.
 
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Hmm did I ever have you try changing the timings to 5-7-7-27-41?
 
RAM Timings

No, I haven't messed with RAM timings. The Ram is rated for 5-5-5-15-21-2T at 2.1V. Could a Memtest show the need for increasing the RAM timings. I ran one this last weekend to see if the RAM could be at fault. It passed at the stock timings. 4GB took longer to test than I expected.
 
Just some FYI.

MY ocz's pass memtest stable all the way to 1216mhz, however windows is another story. To be prime stable they must be at 586 effectively 1172mhz....they also run faster in PI at this speed albeit same timings....
 
CPU settings are covered at the top of page three of this discussion.

I have tried CPU voltages up to 1.600V. I don't like to run there. I have tried all combinations of HTT and CPU-NB speeds. I have tried many CPU-NB voltages. Since I have the Black Edition, I have been using the CPU multiplier only for overclocking. Things go great up to and including 3.6Ghz. I can run there at stock voltage and am stable all the way down to 1.25V. I have not been able to reach stability at 3.7Ghz or above.

CPU-Z always show exactly the voltage entered in BIOS. All HTT and CPU-NB changes also appear to follow in CPU-Z.

I have tried to follow Dolk's guide on CPU-NB frequency and voltage. Like I said, nothing seems to work above 3.6Ghz. I think that if I knew what was causing the problem, I would be able to figure this out. It seems strange that to overclock these CPU's, one must also over/underclock the HTT and CPU-NB. Also, I have heard that on some systems there are overclocking problems if the RAM is running at 3:8 ratio as mine is. So, my instability problem is one of the following:
1. Need more CPU Volts
2. Need to Overclock HTT
3. Need to underclock HTT
4. Need to Overclock CPU-NB
5. Need to Underclock CPU-NB
6. Need to add voltage to CPU-NB if overclocked.
7. My motherboard has this 3:8 Ram ratio instability and I need to try running at 800Mhz or 1:2 ratio.
8. I have reached this mysterious heat wall at ~40 degrees C.
That's what I was looking for! :) - it wasn't montioned in post #62.

Just for grins try these settings:
clock 225
CPU 16x @ 1.35v
RAM 1:2 (aka, "800") w/ stock timings & vDIMM manually entered
NB 8x (for now) @ 1.2v
HTT 5x (for now) @ 1.2v

See what that does. If it won't boot then raise the vCore to 1.40v. If that works try 230x16, then 235x16 ...
 
You crazy fool. Those must be the oddest settings I have seen. But then again I don't have my fancy algorithm chart in front of me showing the best combination for all settings minus ram. :D
 
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