New Computer and LQ Rebuilding Help

If you read the lost circuits article on the I7 power plays (above). Although the I7 as a processor uses a bit over 110w load (TDP 130w), there is what they call an uncore power plane that can draw an extra 45w. It seems that they dynamically gate the amount of power the chip can use, thus keeping it within limits. If you ungate the chip, push more power to it, overclock it, (from page 5) you can easily move into the 230w range. Add to that the power hungry x58 chipset and a video card(s) and darn silly you're into the 120.3(4) radiator class needing good airflow.

schmide said:

If you read the lost circuits article on the I7 power plays (above). Although the I7 as a processor uses a bit over 110w load (TDP 130w), there is what they call an uncore power plane that can draw an extra 45w. It seems that they dynamically gate the amount of power the chip can use, thus keeping it within limits. If you ungate the chip, push more power to it, overclock it, (from page 5) you can easily move into the 230w range. Add to that the power hungry x58 chipset and a video card(s) and darn silly you're into the 120.3(4) radiator class needing good airflow.

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Well I was figuring I was going to get a 120.4 rad, but I'm not sure which one to get.

Conumdrum said:

Exactamundo, but not that complicated.
A kinda standard, if a GPU uses 300 watts of power under load (like running furmark), 80% of that will be dissipated as heat. So you need to remove 240 watts of heat from the GPU or so. Same with the CPU.

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Just a little clarification - By the law of conservation of energy , if any device uses 300w of energy, 300w of heat will be produced. Although 80% may make it to the HS while 20% is put off by the VRMs and such. You may want to rephrase this.

schmide said:

Just a little clarification - By the law of conservation of energy , if any device uses 300w of energy, 300w of heat will be produced. Although 80% may make it to the HS while 20% is put off by the VRMs and such. You may want to rephrase this.

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How would I figure out how many watts of heat are making it to the heat sink? I'm sorry if that sounds like a really stupid question but I've always wondered that.

What card do you have? How much does it use in idle? How much does it use under load?

Google GeForce GTX 280 heat load
http://www.productwiki.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-280/
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=2593&cid=3&pg=11

So the 280 we can say under load dissipates over 200 watts of heat, possibly 250 really overvolted and overclocked. General numbers, but good enuff for me. So your rad/fan planning for a 280 for good temps needs to be about a 10C delta.

Delta? http://martin.skinneelabs.com/SwiftechMCR320-Review.html

Scroll down to the 10C delta chart, this is JUST an example, a teaching moment k?

You have a 300 watt heatload. You want quiet fans, your happy with the water temp being 10C above the ambient room temp because it's just a GPU card, and it's not as temp sensitive as a CPU. Using the chart this rad in the review will give you what you need.

Scroll down to the 5C delta chart. Same rad, same fans, you can ONLY cool 151 watts of heat.

Hope this helps your journey.



And yea schmide, Some of the heat comes off the tiny small parts that get no cooling at all. Like a CPU that has 100 watts of heat, some of it is released through the pins, CPU mount etc. Generally using the 80% solution for what is on the heatsink is or so, close enuff. A GPU only HS will pull somewhat less heat into the water than a full cover HS.

Thats why u never say 300W power.

Instead u use 300W heat. Which means the amt heat that is displaced.

But its probably less then 80%. I highly doubt anything is 80% super conductive @ temps we use them at.

Yea, no biggie, I'll stick with the 80%, it makes me happy and prevents me from underrading. I overad anyway. Low deltas for the win.

you know it Conumdrum, as do I

Aigomorla said:

Thats why u never say 300W power.

Instead u use 300W heat. Which means the amt heat that is displaced.

But its probably less then 80%. I highly doubt anything is 80% super conductive @ temps we use them at.

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Agreed. But if a person needs to know the cooling needed they need to know the wattage used. If they don't know how many watts the device uses then we have no starting point. You have to start somewhere to determine the heatload. We could make a bridge PCI slot and place the GPU card into a chamber and measure the rise in air temp etc. That would be a great scientific method. Heck all we have to go on is load tests that show the PSU watt increase. So perfection is unless you have a really nice lab and more money to spend on test equipment than a new car.

I like what I use, you got a better way, please be free to let me know. I'll be glad to be more accurate, but do we really need to be? I'd like to be on the good side of heat.

XS can't even give a good answer on this, nor can Skinnee. Just give me something better and I'll use it.

Not dissing you, like XS, show me the numbers.

Conumdrum said:

If your going stackable try 6 HS yates first

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I have a working stacked setup.

The setup i use is MCR320 (Shroud)SanAce(shroud) MCR320. Stack. (you can easily use kaze ultras / panflo instead of san aces)


The important thing is you need enough static to push air though the first and second core.
If you have enough static, the difference in air temp will be very minimal also.

Its however kinda bulky... the problem your gonna run into if you use a 25mm fan is:

1. your gonna need open corner fans or you wont be able to stack without double sided sticky tape.
2. The barb spacing between each rad will be VERY VERY small. I think we calculated a bitspower d-plug mini might even be too big to fit in application.
3.The fan in the middle will be serverly starved without a shroud.
4. The stackable rad is $$$$ if your spending ~120 dollars on a rad package.. 75 + 50 then your better off grabbing a thick class Quad Radiator. Expecially since ur mounting it outside.

Conumdrum said:

XS can't even give a good answer on this, nor can Skinnee. Just give me something better and I'll use it.

Not dissing you, like XS, show me the numbers.

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And your absolutely correct. No one can get numbers because all cpu's dont even act the same to begin with.
But yeah, I usually just ball park like how you do. Also on load i can see what delta my system pulls and i can get a fair guessamation of what the heat load will be.

Hey OP on your rebuild there is 1 thing i recomend, and i feel any average h2oer should get. A water temp probe.
Something that can tell you your water temps in real time.

You'd be suprised how much debuging u can get done, if you know what your delta water / ambient is.

What if I were to use my current Swiftech MCR220 120.2 Rad with a Black Ice SR1 360 120.3 Rad? I was thinking about having 6 HS Yates on the 120.3 and 2 on the 120.2 but mounting the 120.2 internally in the front possibly where the 3 120mm fans are on the case. Do you think that would be enough to cool both the CPU and GPU? And for the front fans I was thinking about switching the stock fans with one of these two fans:

http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&category=4&prod=18

Buying site:
http://www.quietpc.com/us-en-usd/products/fractaldesignfans/fd-fan-120

Or

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...cts_id=24965:70116aea758b546fabe898afaf82a1be


They both are pretty close in RPMs and the Fractal Designs are a bit quieter and they push just a tad bit more air, but the Fractal Designs are 3 pin connectors and I was hoping for molex connectors, but I guess I could get adaptors for them if they make them. Also, the Fractal Designs are over twice the price than the GELID fans and I think I'd have to order the Fractals from the UK. Based on the "Where to Buy" feature on Fractal Designs' website. What do you guys think? I was looking for some nice white bladed fans like these.

Also, for the Bitspower compression fittings I need 1/2" ID with 3/4" OD tubing buy on the site it says for Tygon Tubing, but would this tubing work?

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/fetuftacuvho4.html

did u ever consider buying yates, pulling the blades off and spray painting them?

But if i had to pick white bladed fans, i dont think those will out perform this guy on static.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=36_49&products_id=20832

Aigomorla said:

did u ever consider buying yates, pulling the blades off and spray painting them?

But if i had to pick white bladed fans, i dont think those will out perform this guy on static.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ge=product_info&cPath=36_49&products_id=20832

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Eh I don't like the look of those fans I'm just trying to find a plain white bladed fan mostly for looks.

And plus those things are pretty pricey.