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TRUE vs WATER: Comparison on OC'd i7 Platform.

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this is a great thread bad!!! it must have taken ages to get it to this stage!!!
it shows that liquid cooling is worth the money!! my liquid cooling really come into play when i'm prime95in' it all day! i find with mine, my idle temps are about 10c lower that air and loading, about15-20c cooler! so im happy with my new settup!!!

look forwards to finding out how the 4.4 and 4.6 do on air!!
 
Well, actually what I had hoped to show (and what I think I have shown) is that, up to ~4.2GHz with HT enabled, AIR is a viable option an likely would be over a fairly broad ambient temperature range. Anything higher, and the TRUE is pretty much at capacity. And while it is sufficient, it will not allow much in the way of ambient temperature range. That is, if you happen to have a hot day, you'll likely have to clock back a little. Whereas a good WC loop should allow you to run your high OC all day long.
 
Yep, that is kind of how I saw your testing as well, and I think that is what you see looking across forums as well. 4.2 with HT works on high end air, ie true/good fans and is about the limit, providing you get a decent OCer with reasonable vcore. Above that is where water is most useful and can still be quiet with enough surface area.
 
The water setup in this test is also roughly 5 times more expensive at every clock speed.
The fact that high end water is superior to AIR was never in question. What was in question, was whether you needed to spend all that extra dough to cool your i7 processor efficiently and quietly.
This was the sole Purpose of the comparison, as was stated in the first post.
The Findings of the comparison suggest that the answer is no. With the caveats a) you don't go past ~4.2Ghz and/or vcore of ~1.4v, b) that you are a decent enough overclocker to keep your Vcore at the lowest possible level for any given frequency, and c) that you have a quality air cooler and fans.
And of course YMMV better or worse depending on your hardware and skill.

EDIT: 4.4 & 4.6GHZ COMPARISON RESULTS UP. Yikes, this thing gets hot!
 
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Great thread baditude_df. I think that you have tackled the question with strong facts and its very clear what your conclusions have been. An i7 at 4.2 is very good on air. I was really suprised to see that...but I'm an AMD player so I'm coming from a different perspective. My P2 955 reaches the heat wall really quickly on air.
 
Very useful thread! I was in the market for water some time ago. Corpsejockey convinced me that it was not worth the cost. I've copied it to our achievements section. ;)
 
Porvalsh said:
Great thread baditude_df. I think that you have tackled the question with strong facts and its very clear what your conclusions have been. An i7 at 4.2 is very good on air. I was really suprised to see that...but I'm an AMD player so I'm coming from a different perspective. My P2 955 reaches the heat wall really quickly on air.
Click to expand...

Thx. And I was a bit surprised myself when I first put this TRUE on my i7 920 a month or so ago. It really made me want to push it and see how far you could realistically go on AIR with an i7.

Super Nade said:
Very useful thread! I was in the market for water some time ago. Corpsejockey convinced me that it was not worth the cost. I've copied it to our achievements section. ;)
Click to expand...

Heya Nade. Thank you and Thank you!
 
rge said:
There are many people with posted 8hr+ prime stable 4.3, 4.4, even up to 4.6ghz on water with reasonable temps, many using reasonably quiet fans like your 1500rpms. I am surprised you had problems with stability at 4.4 on water, given your cpu. But I think you illustrate why many have upgraded their water systems with these chips. Little surprised at your load temps given you are using external rad and your fan speed. Did you measure water temps, just trying to see where your cpu is different than mine, detla air to water or delta cpu to water. My intake ambient 23C, water temp 27.7C, delta cpu to water 40c using avg temps, 41-42C using max temps, at 4.4ghz, 1.36-1.375 cpuz idle, 1.344cpuz load. When ambients 24.5C on some runs, increase everything by 1.5C.

I can do 4.4 with max 73C temps prime stable even with fans turned down to 1200rpms (granted 2x360 rads), which is very quiet. Same reason martin and others on xtreme are going to 2x360 rads for cpu only, quiet + max OC.

When I first got my i950 and ran prime with my old water setup, 1x360 rad, 1300rpm fans, GTZ, mx2 tim, and internal rad, using hot internal air to cool rad, I loaded at low 80's C max after 12 hrs prime, mid to high 70's within 20 mins, but was still prime stable at 4.4ghz. Part of problem I was heating my local intake case ambients, among many other things after 12 hours.

Then reversed fans to use external cooler air (4-5c cooler, especially with 1hr+ loads), upgraded to HK, made better overall case airflow, redirected airflow in back so could not recirculate into ambient intake, and got GT fans, then 10 hrs prime stable at 4.4 with max 76C temps at ~23.5C ambients. I posted couple times on xtreme in other threads my temp changes with various changes.
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/3828/440074c10hrsprimebios8f.jpg

Then used 2x360 rads with only 1300-1400 rpm fans, upgraded tim to indigo, and now prime 8 hrs quietly with push/pull GT with only 71C max temps this again 23-23.5C ambient. Can turn fans down to very quiet 1200 and still get good temps.
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6118/44008hrprime70maxtemp.jpg

But even running 4.5ghz with 1.4 vcore now, I am only in mid 70's and stable for 4 hrs prime...this is only 10 mins though 4.5ghz, after 4 hrs temps will be ~3C higher max realtemp.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4536/4500temps.jpg
Click to expand...

Finally did a little water temp testing while I was comparing my Apogee GTZ to my new XT.

CPU Frequency=4.0GHz(20x200MHz)
CPU Core Voltage=1.248v
Ambient Air Temperature at intake=25 DegC
Fans in sig at 7.5v.
Water temperatures taken at Res (directly after CPU Block).
3 sets of 10 minute(minimum) tests. Results are avg of the 3.

Ambient Temp Shot:


Load Water Temp Shot:


Idle Water Temp Shot:


Results as follows:

Water Temperature Load=32 DegC (89.6 DegF) Avg
Water Temperature Idle=28.3 DegC (83.1 DegF) Avg
CPU Temp Load (GTZ)=64.74 DegC Avg
CPU Temp Load (XT)=59.75 DegC Avg
CPU Temp Idle (XT)=38.5 DegC Avg

Air to Water Delta = 7 DegC Load, 3.3 DegC Idle
Water to CPU Delta = 27.75 DegC Load, 10.2 DegC Idle

XT Idle
idlextcputemp.gif


XT Load
loadxtcputemp.gif


GTZ Load
loadgtzcputemp.gif



At what point in the loop are you taking your water temperatures rge? After the Rad?

Anyhow, I'm gonna ramp this sucker up to 4.2 and 4.4GHz tonight and post the results of those tests for you as well.
 
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Dunno if anyone has mentioned it yet; but another big advantage with water is that the most of us have our system in case - with water we dump the generated heat outside the case. Whilst it is a lot more difficult to get rid of the heatdump inside a case with aircooling.
Airducts is of course one way to go....

thx
 
tell ya what guys.....here in UK today where I am has been -15c every night for about 3 days and -7c in the day - imagine running your air cooling outside! or water cooling! you'd probly get like 10c on load!!
 
been thinking there's something wrong with my system, not only because of the stutters, games closing but sitting there & every now & again feeling a waft of hot air & thet smell you get from some hot electrical equipment.

i took the case side off then i got a desk fan & close to stuck it in my pc. start up & watched smart doctor for a while.

temp 120f. "with the desk fan on"

i started the witcher 2 for about 3hours then switched it of, opened smart doctor &...

temp 170f.

i mean wtf lol, i ain't an expert even thought i built the comp myself but i know that temp cant be doing any good for my performance never mind my components.

now a duno wtf to do about it, if a big desktop fan aint cooling things then what else is going too?.
 
jpMNTN said:
been thinking there's something wrong with my system, not only because of the stutters, games closing but sitting there & every now & again feeling a waft of hot air & thet smell you get from some hot electrical equipment.

i took the case side off then i got a desk fan & close to stuck it in my pc. start up & watched smart doctor for a while.

temp 120f. "with the desk fan on"

i started the witcher 2 for about 3hours then switched it of, opened smart doctor &...

temp 170f.

i mean wtf lol, i ain't an expert even thought i built the comp myself but i know that temp cant be doing any good for my performance never mind my components.

now a duno wtf to do about it, if a big desktop fan aint cooling things then what else is going too?.
Click to expand...


Dunno, but this thread is over a year old. Why don't you start a new thread in this subforums with more info, your hardware, and use C for temps.

Posting a unrelated question in another Ops thread is derailing the thread, no matter if the thread is over a year old is bad manners.
 
i ended up in this thread by going thru the stickies.

the simple fact that this thread is attached to the stickies probably made me think it was an active/important thread & made for topics like this.

if this offended u then sorry.
 
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