Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28
  1. #1
    Glorious Leader I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Rootstown, OH
    Posts
    25,172

    Sticky Situation - Cleaning Up Water Cooling

    Some members have taken up the task of cleaning up the stickies in this section, to ensure information is accurate, timely, and well organized.

    This thread will be used as a step in the process, to track stickies which either need updates or removals:

    Water Cooling - The basics - contains outdate parts recommendations, need updated

    How To Ask Basic Watercooling Questions - links may need updated, ensure it's current/relevant

    Complete Coolant Guide - outdated and inaccurate, dead

    Flowrate - ancient, may have good info

    Flowrate impact on water cooling - ancient, has good info
    Last edited by I.M.O.G.; 12-15-09 at 09:43 AM.
    The OC Forums Way
    We are a team. We are a community. We are a fellowship made strong by mutual respect and shared dedication to the task of enriching all who come here.
    The OC Forums Thank You Thread
    Put your computer to work for our OC Forum Teams!
    Try out our POST TEMPLATES, they save you time answering common questions!

    I spend half my money on CPUs, GPUs, and Liquid Nitrogen. The other half I waste.

  2. #2
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    Kill the coolant guide completely. We recommend Distilled water and a biocide. That can be silver in the loop, Petras PT/PHN Nuke, or even the right algecide from the pet fish store.

    Thats it, there is nothing cheaper, more effective than water, and less trouble free than what I listed above. We don't need no troublesome loops
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  3. #3
    Glorious Leader I.M.O.G.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Rootstown, OH
    Posts
    25,172
    Thanks, updated that entry

    Also, Hokiealumnus may be working on an ultimate cooling sticky so that we can eliminate the sticky subforum, and make everything easier for people to find. This is an example of what that might roughly look like:
    http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=623561
    The OC Forums Way
    We are a team. We are a community. We are a fellowship made strong by mutual respect and shared dedication to the task of enriching all who come here.
    The OC Forums Thank You Thread
    Put your computer to work for our OC Forum Teams!
    Try out our POST TEMPLATES, they save you time answering common questions!

    I spend half my money on CPUs, GPUs, and Liquid Nitrogen. The other half I waste.

  4. #4
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    Something for the Flowrate sticky. The old one has tons of great info, some applies, some is way out and does not apply to our needs. This will kinda sum it up.

    Flow rate is important to the effective operation of a CPU block. Modern blocks need 1 to 1.5 GPM of flow rate to effectly remove heat. Below 1 GPM you can impact the CPU temps. Above 1.5 GPM the benefits can drop off and flatten out on curves. Look inside any modern block. And if you can find some of the simulations posted how the water acts in the block they can show it, I have seen them in the past.

    Fluid needs to be at high enough flow to get very turbulent inside the block. This causes more molecules to contact the warmer copper surfaces, thus collecting more heat to be dissipated in the rad.

    We want linear flow in the hoses, but not in the blocks. You reduce flow and you can severly impact the cooling capability of the CPU block. Smooth flow in the hoses, the intake to the pump, generally anywhere helps except in the blocks.

    Slowing the flow thinking the water will be there longer and cool more in the rad also reduces flow in the blocks. So as it enters the block it's cool. When it exits it's warmer than it could be, because it's flowing slower. So besides the impingment problems metioned above, you can cause more problems.

    Lastly, we are dealing with a closed loop. Lets set the flow rate at 2 GPM. For easy demonstration purposes this will cause a water molecule to make a loop every 5 seconds, and stay in the rad for 1 second. So, every minute the molecule will be in the rad for 12 seconds.

    Lets reduce the flow to 1 GPM. Every 10 seconds. 2 seconds. The molecule will still be in the rad for 12 seconds. Reducing flow rate does not keep the water in the rad for any longer...........................

    In summary, the purchase of a good pump and not getting crazy with two many blocks and 90 degree fittings your flow rate will be just fine. All modern rads and recommended pumps are just fine even with two GPU blocks and a CPU block. Add in a full set of Mosfet blocks etc and you might be hurting your flow rate. How do you know? Your temps are poor is a good indication. It can be tested with a 10 gallon bucket. Fill use the 10 gallons as your res. Bleed the loop. Then put the pump out hose into the sink and turn it on. How long does it take the 10 gallons to get to 2 gallons? There is your systems flow rate.

    All of this can be supported by tests at Martins and Skinnees and other info on the web.
    Last edited by Conumdrum; 12-26-09 at 10:35 AM.
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  5. Thanks!

    Liamrox287 (02-28-13), Thekamikazepr (02-09-14)

  6. #5
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    The how to ask basic watercooling questions title could be changed to:

    Basic knowledge you need to understand before you begin asking questions.

    Info like:
    flow rate
    Heat removal science, AKA rad capabilities
    Fans and rad relationships (noise)
    Size of the WC parts and your case (list good cases here?)
    Maintenance
    Liquids
    Leak testing

    Rambling now.................
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  7. #6
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    Another nice one we should have. A basic list of 20-to 30 terms we use in watercooling. Definitions really.

    I saw one once. Someone find it or have a link and I'll modify it for our use. I'm a technical geek and had to take a week long class learning such mundane tasks. Each took a week. How to write lesson plans, how to write test questions, how to write student guides, how to council poor performance, how to show them a Burger King application when they ain't got what it takes.......

    What terms to quantify?

    Flow rate? Heatload? Rad effiency? etc.

    I seen such on the net, give me a start folks. What is the big questions noobs need to know at the start?
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  8. #7
    Water Cooled Moderator
    Overclockers.com Lead Editor
    hokiealumnus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    15,596
    Head pressure
    GPH/GPM/LPH/LPM
    CFM
    FPI
    PTNuke (and PHN)
    Rad
    Res
    Barb / compression / rotary / etc. fittings
    BSPP / NPT (don't forget the single exception to 1/4 - 3/8 on thermochill rads)

    Ok, my mind is fried and I'm getting ready for bed. There's a start. Thanks for your help!

    EDIT - Yes, I noticed that is mostly a list of abbreviations and TLA's (three letter acronyms ...heh. See, told you my brain was fried.) There are better things to define I'm sure.

    Enjoy benchmarks? Join the benching team!
    New to water cooling? Read the Beginner's Guide to Water Cooling Your PC.
    I.M.O.G. - "Night benching is the answer. Start sleeping every other day. Other than an occassional narcoleptic episode, its been wor"
    \m/ OverClockers mATX L33T Club \m/ - Join Now! - My mITX Build

  9. #8
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    I can begin to work on that, give me a week.

    I gotta describe a rad? We got that levels of noobishness? OMG. Maybe so, describe the need of each part......

    8 oz glass, 4 cubes, 3 fingers of liquid. Maybe I'll add that too.............

    TLAs is nothing, I was in the military for 21 years, so a 3 letter is candy to me.
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by hokiealumnus View Post
    Head pressure
    GPH/GPM/LPH/LPM
    CFM
    FPI
    PTNuke (and PHN)
    Rad
    Res
    Barb / compression / rotary / etc. fittings
    BSPP / NPT (don't forget the single exception to 1/4 - 3/8 on thermochill rads)

    Ok, my mind is fried and I'm getting ready for bed. There's a start. Thanks for your help!

    EDIT - Yes, I noticed that is mostly a list of abbreviations and TLA's (three letter acronyms ...heh. See, told you my brain was fried.) There are better things to define I'm sure.
    Speaking as a water-cooling n00b I think that this is a great idea.

    Let me suggest a few more:
    static pressure (vs. pressure when a fan is used with a radiator)
    dBA
    Delta T
    fan controllers - different types (if that's not too far OT)
    heater core
    anti-freeze (for use in this application)
    dyes
    UV-reactive tubing
    different types of tubing, by name or number, e.g. Tygon

    Thanks,

    x509

  11. #10
    Spawn-Inc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,829
    Quote Originally Posted by x509 View Post
    Speaking as a water-cooling n00b I think that this is a great idea.

    Let me suggest a few more:
    static pressure (vs. pressure when a fan is used with a radiator)
    dBA
    Delta T
    fan controllers - different types (if that's not too far OT)
    heater core
    anti-freeze (for use in this application)
    dyes - *
    UV-reactive tubing
    different types of tubing, by name or number, e.g. Tygon

    Thanks,

    x509
    * = why not to use them is what i assume you meant
    CPU: Q6600 G0 3.5GHz@1.4v (4.2GHz max) / 4790k 4.8ghz @1.265v
    GPU: 9800GTX /GTX780 hydrocopper
    Ram: Samsung 4GB /gskill 16gb DDR3 1600
    Mobo: EVGA-NF68-A1 680i (P32) /AsRock Extreme6
    PSU: Enermax Galaxy 850Watt /EVGA 850 G2
    HDD: OCZ 120GB Vertex4, Samsung evo 840 250GB
    LCD: Samsung 32" LN32A450, Samsung 226BW 22" wide
    Sound: Logtiech Z 5500
    CPU & GPU: 3x Swiftech MCR320, 2x MCP655, MCW60 R2, Dtek Fuzion V2, 18 high speed yates @ 5v

  12. #11
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    Thanks x509, I'll add that to my list.

    Guess I'll do the goggle search for the old list like this I saw last year. I can do it if no one else can.
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  13. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn-Inc View Post
    * = why not to use them is what i assume you meant
    Yup! Along with advice to get UV-reactive tubing instead.

  14. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by Conumdrum View Post

    We want linear flow in the hoses, but not in the blocks
    By any chance, do you mean "laminar?"

    x509

  15. #14
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    yep, exaxtcamundo! Meaning smooth in the tubes. Better flow rates, less restriction. Why we like fat tubing.

    Laminar I think is more along a long wide surface, like on an aircraft wing, but it's flow, smooth, so yep kinda the same. I know a tiny bit about aircraft wings and what they need to generate lift.
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  16. #15
    Member BobbyBubblehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,401
    Dare I say save the complete coolant guides info in some form for ghetto projects cooling.
    theres enough "A-team" builds come along to raise the question of what to use in there creations.

    if we rework whats there and throw in a "why we dont" thread to explain away mixed metal corrosion, breaking down of dyes and effective duration of coolants.

    Im gathering a second wind for the next spreadsheet myself
    but maybe I can have a go at saving the coolant thread with the adjusted emphasis being we dont trust or feel the need for much of whats on offer. needs horror pics, myself I didnt get any with my mixed stuff but it does show managed right your equipment and pets can live on.


    also something diagramatic to explain loop ordering and there effects/reasoning.

  17. #16
    Member Mpegger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,021
    Just my 2 Cents: Distilled Water + Water Wetter. No need for a Biocide or anything else, plus Water Wetter will further help with cooling, and won't react with metals in any way (helps prevent corrosion).

    I'm a wrench so its what I use in my vehicles as well, and its what I have readily available.
    NZXT Switch 810 / ASRock Z97 Extreme4 / i7 4790K @ 4.6 / 32GiB / 780Ti 560TI
    ESXi server / i7-3770s / 16GiB / 16TB ZFS-z2
    Dell R710 in the works...

    -----------------------------
    [GB ≠ GiB] [MB ≠ MiB] [kB ≠ kiB]
    "Apparently, Plaintiff believes that he could sue an egg company for fraud for labeling a carton of 12 eggs a “dozen,” because some bakers would view a “dozen” as including 13 items." - Western Digital 2006

    "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft
    "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Hitler

    (Microsucks) Avatar and quote on loan from AntmanMike
    Heatware

  18. #17
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    Water wetter? Nope. Not used anymore in most loops. Doesn't help cooling at all. And it stinks to high heaven.

    If I write the sticky, it will be considered uneeded.
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  19. #18
    Member Mpegger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,021
    Not sure where you get the stink from. Its been in my loop for nearly two years now, not to mention my vehicles, and hardly gives any smell at all. And dunno where you get that it doesn't help, but it does help cooling. Its not meant to drop temps by any great amount, but meant to improve heat transfer from the metal to the water, ie, the surface temperature of the object being cooled will be lower then normal because of the water mixture taking away heat more efficiently.
    NZXT Switch 810 / ASRock Z97 Extreme4 / i7 4790K @ 4.6 / 32GiB / 780Ti 560TI
    ESXi server / i7-3770s / 16GiB / 16TB ZFS-z2
    Dell R710 in the works...

    -----------------------------
    [GB ≠ GiB] [MB ≠ MiB] [kB ≠ kiB]
    "Apparently, Plaintiff believes that he could sue an egg company for fraud for labeling a carton of 12 eggs a “dozen,” because some bakers would view a “dozen” as including 13 items." - Western Digital 2006

    "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft
    "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Hitler

    (Microsucks) Avatar and quote on loan from AntmanMike
    Heatware

  20. #19
    Wants Old Title Back
    Didn't Get It
    Conumdrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    14,272
    I get it from peeps who do this all the time. It's from the old school days and isn't needed anymore. Thus, like antifreeze, Hydrex, and other old fluids it's just not needed anymore. Anti freeze in a sub zero loop has validity for it's use.

    Water Wetter does help cooling in car/motorcycle loops, but we are not even close to the temps in a motor cooling loop. We also don't run mixed metals anymore. Just not needed. You can prove me wrong. Run distilled in a good temp test and tell me if your temps are worse vs with water wetter.

    Otherwise it's a done deal.
    I want my old title back.
    Old beast is torn down.
    Will update later.

    900 watt (1500VA) UPS
    27" ASUS VG 3D/Nvidia V2 3D glasses and 24" Acer H243H

  21. #20
    Registered emperor496's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Borneo
    Posts
    16
    how about a mixture of distilled water & automobile coolant? will they help cooling?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •